Lord of the Rings TV Series in Development - How could this POSSIBLY go wrong...

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Dang Woodchucks!

Haachama Prometheus
kiwifarms.net
Game of Thrones was pretty much G.R.R. Martin's fuck you to Tolkien. Tolkien had made a fantasy world filled with beauty, chastity, temperance, empathy, and a loving Creator who used the humblest members of His creation to save the world through their determination and sacrifice. G. R.R. Martin made a fantasy world that was basically "War of the Roses" filled with assholes and rape (and people getting raped in the asshole,) A world where common people lived at the mercy of corrupt aristocrats and impersonal natural forces. A world that stamps out idealism at every turn and if it has a Creator, He's probably the biggest asshole of all. It's is the polar opposite of LOTR and trying to twist Tolkien's work into a Grimdark Fantasy potboiler like GOT is akin to Cultural Vandalism. I hope whatever member(s) of the Tolkien estate that sold his work to Amazon enjoys their 30 pieces of silver, because once they die, they're going to have a very angry author coming after them in the next life.

IIRC they only sold it with several contractual clauses that limit what Amazon can do (can't race/gender swap canon characters, limiting them to a stretch of material timeline-wise which is a blank slate, and most importantly, NOTHING Amazon does with LOTR can fuck up the existing lore meaning they can't rewrite the trilogy and everything they do has to amount to jack shit in the overall narrative as far as "something that happened in a vacuum that no one remembers and had no impact on the world around it".

They also forced Amazon to take on a relative of Tolkein who's job was to police them and serve as a source material consultant and it was widely stated the guy was super serious in trying to tard wrangle Amazon and their hires to keep them from raping the source material and pointing out when they got dangerously close to voiding the above terms of the contract, which would nullify the entire endevour and cost them the right to do the show. IIRC he eventually ragequit because he realized that the creators hired by Amazon were actively trying their best to make it so they could just ignore him and having their own lawyers combing over the restrictions looking for any and all loopholes to get around said restrictions to allow them to rape the source material as opposed to creating glorified fan fiction that would be ignored and treated as such by normies.
It's also not written by Tolkien, so it's not canon anyway. So congratulations are in order for Amazon in making the first (to my knowledge, anyway) multi-million (billion?) dollar fanfic! :story:

If it's good, it'll be a nice study of that period in time of Middle-earth. If not, I'm just going to point and laugh at it.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
It's also not written by Tolkien, so it's not canon anyway. So congratulations are in order for Amazon in making the first (to my knowledge, anyway) multi-million (billion?) dollar fanfic! :story:

If it's good, it'll be a nice study of that period in time of Middle-earth. If not, I'm just going to point and laugh at it.
Wouldn't most of the video games count as those well? Most of them are non-canon and probably would have upset both Tolkien and his son.
 

Absolutego

Making dough but not enough to blow
True & Honest Fan
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Wouldn't most of the video games count as those well? Most of them are non-canon and probably would have upset both Tolkien and his son.
All of the games in one way or another center around violence. I think the only video game genre Tolkien wouldn't consider a huge insult to his universe would be some kind of visual novel or a Shire-themed farming sim.
I will say that the Shadow of Mordor series was fanfic-y enough that it's probably a bridge too far even for the movie canon.
 

Dang Woodchucks!

Haachama Prometheus
kiwifarms.net
All of the games in one way or another center around violence. I think the only video game genre Tolkien wouldn't consider a huge insult to his universe would be some kind of visual novel or a Shire-themed farming sim.
I will say that the Shadow of Mordor series was fanfic-y enough that it's probably a bridge too far even for the movie canon.
About Shadow of Mordor/War, while there are a few liberties taken, I roll with 'em mostly because the devs never intended for them to be canon. There are some that seriously stretch my lenience, like Shelob's shapeshifting and suddenly having (plenty self-serving, even when she claims the contrary) "standards" in the second game, but everything can be chalked up to a "What-If" narrative that does it's job; entertain.
Wouldn't most of the video games count as those well? Most of them are non-canon and probably would have upset both Tolkien and his son.
I can't speak for Tolkien, but his kid certainly was upset over literally everything. It might have helped him to take a chill pill and get that stick up his ass checked.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
I can't speak for Tolkien, but his kid certainly was upset over literally everything. It might have helped him to take a chill pill and get that stick up his ass checked.
Christopher Tolkien I have respect for. He clearly really respected his father's work, vision, and legacy, not to mention his putting together of the Silmarillion and other works from his father's notes. If anything his death and direction the Tolkien Estate has gone afterwards has shown he was right to be overprotective.
 
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Mnutu

kiwifarms.net
All of the games in one way or another center around violence. I think the only video game genre Tolkien wouldn't consider a huge insult to his universe would be some kind of visual novel or a Shire-themed farming sim.
I will say that the Shadow of Mordor series was fanfic-y enough that it's probably a bridge too far even for the movie canon.
I would play a Shire Sim City game.
 

Pokemonquistador2

Electric Boogaloo
kiwifarms.net
The Hobbits always felt kind of OOC for the setting, especially once the heavy stuff with the elves and humans came along. That's why their being the race that saves the world is such a brilliant twist. No one would ever suspect them of being anything other than the adventuring party's comic relief/mascot character. Even Sauron thought they were peripheral players who would only be useful as hostages to bug or torment the important players. This was a good, in-universe example of subverting expectations.

Also, how about a game where you're Farmer Maggot and you have to keep those thievin hoodlums, Merry & Pippin from stealing your crop?
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
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Christopher Tolkien I have respect for. He clearly really respected his father's work, vision, and legacy, not to mention his putting together of the Silmarillion and other works from his father's notes. If anything his death and direction the Tolkien Estate has gone afterwards has shown he was right to be overprotective.
Star Wars is the poster child of franchise abuse.
It's kind of a dead horse to pull that carcas out from under the rug, but it genuinely embodies all what can go wrong with a franchise and why being overprotective might not be a bad thing, given how the sequel trilogy turned out. I'd rather have no content at all for a franchise than wading through an ocean of dung to look for that one product within that franchise, that doesn't suck balls.

The Hobbits always felt kind of OOC for the setting, especially once the heavy stuff with the elves and humans came along. That's why their being the race that saves the world is such a brilliant twist. No one would ever suspect them of being anything other than the adventuring party's comic relief/mascot character. Even Sauron thought they were peripheral players who would only be useful as hostages to bug or torment the important players. This was a good, in-universe example of subverting expectations.

Also, how about a game where you're Farmer Maggot and you have to keep those thievin hoodlums, Merry & Pippin from stealing your crop?
How about a Thief-like game, where you are Merry or Pippin and have to sneak into his fields, past hired farmhands with sticks, to steal apples from his trees or a fresh pie from his windowsill?
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
Star Wars is the poster child of franchise abuse.
It's kind of a dead horse to pull that carcas out from under the rug, but it genuinely embodies all what can go wrong with a franchise and why being overprotective might not be a bad thing, given how the sequel trilogy turned out. I'd rather have no content at all for a franchise than wading through an ocean of dung to look for that one product within that franchise, that doesn't suck balls.
I honestly think we were lucky Tolkien had a son like Christopher that not only deeply respected his father but followed in his father's footsteps. I honestly have little idea what the landscape of Tolkien's legacy would look like today without him. Probably forgettable live-action 80s fantasy movies like what was common at the time. The Peter Jackson trilogy was honestly a happy fluke. But it was a fluke that changed the mainstream view of fantasy forever. I understand and sympathize with Christopher's dislike of them but it definitely brought many more people to take interest in his father's work. The Hobbit Trilogy, however, in an embarrassment best forgotten.

On another note, here is the second wave of cast members announced back in December. archive
Capture.PNG

Outside of race, do any of these choices pique your interest or concern? I honestly don't know much about them.

This article should be of interest too, just because of this statement:
With the recent casting announcements from Amazon Studios’ The Lord of the Rings including some highly respected actors of color, we reached out to friend and creator Sebastian A. Jones to join us for tonight’s episode of TORn Tuesday ( Watch 8pm PT / 5pm ET LIVE on YouTube or Facebook)
What turbulent waters we are crossing! To some, the waves are violent and filled with a rage that reflects the grief of loss; the loss of identity that has been spoiled with such normalcy that truths become lies and change is perceived as radical, or even the absurd notion of replacement. And some will double down, and drown in the depths of righteous hate or willful ignorance. As for others … for creators of fantasy and communal dreamers of a global reality … for men like me … the blue breakers carry the glint of sunlight, where dolphins and doves lead us into hope for a better tomorrow.

We travel in cruise ships surrounded with people who do not look, sound, or think like we do. We travel solo, in little isolated boats, but still sailing the same choppy seas of change. All of us are heading there. It is inevitable. It is what we do, and how we react with our fellow passengers on the journey. The destination of belief is a mirage, as the wheels will continue to turn on this voyage. And the next one. If you think you have arrived, then you have never left. Is there an end in sight for the insecurity of self? Perhaps not, but it is my sincerest hope that our beings are not wrapped up in the make-believe – but the truth. So we may celebrate with compassion, love, and healing, and feel the honest joy in the ties that bind us as elves, dwarves … and human beings.

– Sebastian A. Jones
CEO of Stranger Comics, Creator of Niobe and the World of Asunda
 
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starborn427614

kiwifarms.net
I honestly think we were lucky Tolkien had a son like Christopher that not only deeply respected his father but followed in his father's footsteps. I honestly have little idea what the landscape of Tolkien's legacy would look like today without him. Probably forgettable live-action 80s fantasy movies like what was common at the time. The Peter Jackson trilogy was honestly a happy fluke. But it was a fluke that changed the mainstream view of fantasy forever. I understand and sympathize with Christopher's dislike of them but it definitely brought many more people to take interest in his father's work. The Hobbit Trilogy, however, in an embarrassment best forgotten.

On another note, here is the second wave of cast members announced back in December. archive
View attachment 1882844
Outside of race, do any of these choices pique your interest or concern? I honestly don't know much about them.

This article should be of interest too, just because of this statement:
With the recent casting announcements from Amazon Studios’ The Lord of the Rings including some highly respected actors of color, we reached out to friend and creator Sebastian A. Jones to join us for tonight’s episode of TORn Tuesday ( Watch 8pm PT / 5pm ET LIVE on YouTube or Facebook)
Lenny Henry's in LOTR? Hopefully they don't waste him like Doctor Who did.
 

knightlautrec

Keh heh heh heh…
kiwifarms.net
I honestly think we were lucky Tolkien had a son like Christopher that not only deeply respected his father but followed in his father's footsteps. I honestly have little idea what the landscape of Tolkien's legacy would look like today without him. Probably forgettable live-action 80s fantasy movies like what was common at the time. The Peter Jackson trilogy was honestly a happy fluke. But it was a fluke that changed the mainstream view of fantasy forever. I understand and sympathize with Christopher's dislike of them but it definitely brought many more people to take interest in his father's work. The Hobbit Trilogy, however, in an embarrassment best forgotten.

On another note, here is the second wave of cast members announced back in December. archive
View attachment 1882844
Outside of race, do any of these choices pique your interest or concern? I honestly don't know much about them.

This article should be of interest too, just because of this statement:
With the recent casting announcements from Amazon Studios’ The Lord of the Rings including some highly respected actors of color, we reached out to friend and creator Sebastian A. Jones to join us for tonight’s episode of TORn Tuesday ( Watch 8pm PT / 5pm ET LIVE on YouTube or Facebook)
We wuz elves n sheet.

I'm so tired honestly. LotR is the whitest goddamn thing ever. It's fantasy Britain and its long sprawling mythos as written by Tolkien to mimic other fantastical European epics because, aside from King Arthur? Britian didn't have any like France or Germany or Scandinavia.

There is nothing wrong with it being white. And staying as it was. From my experience as someone who is half black? Black people don't give a SHIT about Lord of the Fucking Rings. They're basically pandering to other white people and not 'people of colour' cuz I can guarantee just like most of this fantasy and science fiction shit (see: demographics of GoT, Star Trek, SW fans, I.E, white people) having a black person in it isn't going to make them watch it because they simply don't give a shit about nerd crap. Why not pick a fantasy/Sci fi series to make a show on by a black writer? Why choose the whitest goddamn thing and shoehorn shit that was never intended?

At this point it boils down to these fart huffer showrunners wanna pat themselves on the back for doing literally nothing and ironically still promoting white culture instead of actually looking into black writers and adapting their works for shows.
 

Honka Honka Burning Love

I am the Clownvis..Honk Honk Ba Donk.
kiwifarms.net
visual novel or a Shire-themed farming sim.
Not gonna lie Shire-dew Valley Moon would be pretty bitching, you move into Frodo's town after your Grandpa dies and have to revitalize his farm. You could even make the PC a chick so she can hit on the 4 Hobbitses...and then die when the shire gets scourged.
 

Pokemonquistador2

Electric Boogaloo
kiwifarms.net
More proof of the SJW Convergence of Tolkien:


What draws faggots to Tolkien anyway? It's not that it's like Star Trek, which is a big Gay Space Communism simulator. I know what would draw the fujoshis to the fandom, but I can't see why (((scholars))) would care, other than as a way to show their parents that their English degrees weren't a waste of time after all. What I wonder is why high Tolkien fantasy got glomped onto by SJWs, and not Low Fantasy like Conan the Barbarian, which you'd think would provide more opportunity for degeneracy, with its sex and gore. Maybe Conan is too "toxically masculine" for the limpwrists. And women warriors with thong bikinis are far too sexist for dangerhair hamplanets to endure.

All I know is that audiences are probably going to be bored with Game of Rings. They're going to be wondering where the plucky, adventuresome little Hobbits are, while the Hollywood-Beautiful elves and humans are busy screwing themselves over, figuratively and sexually. The Hobbits were pretty much the emotional core of the LOTR universe - the viewpoint characters that audiences could root for and relate to while the elves, wizards and men seemed more like support characters. There's a reason the Silmarillion really doesn't get as much press as the other books.
 
More proof of the SJW Convergence of Tolkien:


What draws faggots to Tolkien anyway? It's not that it's like Star Trek, which is a big Gay Space Communism simulator. I know what would draw the fujoshis to the fandom, but I can't see why (((scholars))) would care, other than as a way to show their parents that their English degrees weren't a waste of time after all. What I wonder is why high Tolkien fantasy got glomped onto by SJWs, and not Low Fantasy like Conan the Barbarian, which you'd think would provide more opportunity for degeneracy, with its sex and gore. Maybe Conan is too "toxically masculine" for the limpwrists. And women warriors with thong bikinis are far too sexist for dangerhair hamplanets to endure.

The parasites attach themselves to what is popular and what already has an existing infrastructure that they can use to amplify their ideas. Star Trek, Star Wars, and Lord of the Rings fit the bill. Conan is more of a niche thing.

All I know is that audiences are probably going to be bored with Game of Rings. They're going to be wondering where the plucky, adventuresome little Hobbits are, while the Hollywood-Beautiful elves and humans are busy screwing themselves over, figuratively and sexually. The Hobbits were pretty much the emotional core of the LOTR universe - the viewpoint characters that audiences could root for and relate to while the elves, wizards and men seemed more like support characters. There's a reason the Silmarillion really doesn't get as much press as the other books.

Tolkien fans seem more interested in the Silm than LotR. The Silm is Tolkien's opus and it explores his grand ideas about God, the problem of evil, and his languages. Its eternally-unfinished state and all the material in History of Middle-earth means there will always be room for discussion about what the "real" or ideal Silmarillion should include. But that requires a lot of reading, creating a fairly high barrier for entry. Unfortunately, the Tolkien Society's convergence shows the barrier is not insurmountable.

Papers may consider, but are not limited to:
  • Representation in Tolkien’s works (race, gender, sexuality, disability, class, religion, age etc.)
  • Tolkien’s approach to colonialism and post-colonialism
  • Adaptations of Tolkien’s works
  • Diversity and representation in Tolkien academia and readership
  • Identity within Tolkien’s works
  • Alterity in Tolkien’s works

Tolkien addresses colonization, social stratification, and the disappearance (if not outright genocide) of minority races in his works. He didn't do it because he was woke. As a historically-minded Englishman, it was perfectly natural for him to write about a foreign elite moving in and taking over. How many times did that happen to Great Britain? We have the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, and Normans conquering some or all of what is now England, after which I think the Dutch and the Germans were brought in to reign. Not to mention the Irish conquering a chunk of Scotland, or the Celts themselves displacing whoever lived there in prehistory. These events changed the native culture, religion, government, and language in countless ways, and we see Tolkien's fictional take on this process when the Noldor return, when the Exiles and Sindar move east and create realms, and when the Numenoreans colonize Middle-earth. His ideas of colonialism were based on 1500+ years of history, not whatever woke fad is animating the discourse now.
 

Pokemonquistador2

Electric Boogaloo
kiwifarms.net
Tolkien addresses colonization, social stratification, and the disappearance (if not outright genocide) of minority races in his works. He didn't do it because he was woke. As a historically-minded Englishman, it was perfectly natural for him to write about a foreign elite moving in and taking over. How many times did that happen to Great Britain? We have the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, and Normans conquering some or all of what is now England, after which I think the Dutch and the Germans were brought in to reign. Not to mention the Irish conquering a chunk of Scotland, or the Celts themselves displacing whoever lived there in prehistory. These events changed the native culture, religion, government, and language in countless ways, and we see Tolkien's fictional take on this process when the Noldor return, when the Exiles and Sindar move east and create realms, and when the Numenoreans colonize Middle-earth. His ideas of colonialism were based on 1500+ years of history, not whatever woke fad is animating the discourse now.
In this one paragraph, you presented more legitimate scholarship on Tolkien's works than that entire seminar will produce. I predict everything presented at that conference will be basically boiled down to :"How racist was Tolkien, and how can we rewrite his works so that they won't offend woketards who have no interest in reading them?"
 

Intelligent Calcium

Humble Fantabulist
kiwifarms.net
Not gonna lie Shire-dew Valley Moon would be pretty bitching, you move into Frodo's town after your Grandpa dies and have to revitalize his farm. You could even make the PC a chick so she can hit on the 4 Hobbitses...and then die when the shire gets scourged.
It's all fun and games until the Brandywine freezes over and the wolves start coming.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
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What I wonder is why high Tolkien fantasy got glomped onto by SJWs, and not Low Fantasy like Conan the Barbarian, which you'd think would provide more opportunity for degeneracy, with its sex and gore.
Cause it's more popular and it is too white, too male and too European. It's not about how well SJW shit fits into this, quite the opposite: It's the perfect target for being so anathema to modern SJW beliefs.

It's the holy grail, since it is the single most popular fantasy story ever written, it is one of the best protected stories and while the fandom has been invaded, the source material itself has not. It's also one of the last pure IPs.

If you want to read some real fart sniffing, check this out, it's from the Wikipedia entry on the spider Shelob:
Critics such as Alison Milbank have observed that while there are few significant female characters in Lord of the Rings, Shelob is undeniably sexual. She comments that "Tolkien offers a most convincing Freudian vagina dentata (toothed vagina) in the ancient and disgustingly gustatory spider Shelob." Milbank notes further that Shelob symbolises "an ancient maternal power that swallows up masculine identity and autonomy", threatening a "castrating hold [which] is precisely what the sexual fetishist fears, and seeks to control". Milbank comments that it is fitting that another ancient female character, the elf-queen Galadriel, who both chooses not to be the "She-who-must-be-obeyed" by renouncing the One Ring that Frodo offers her, and gives Frodo her light (the Phial of Galadriel) with which the hobbits will defeat Shelob.
It's the most vapid bullshit I have read in a long time...

while the Hollywood-Beautiful elves and humans are busy screwing themselves over
Do you really expect beautiful people to portray elves in the future? If anything, we'll get some "health at all sizes" or "black is beautiful" bullshit... or, gods forbid, female elves played entirely by a stock of rabid troons (mark my words, sooner or later, someone is going to make something like that unironically, maybe not in LOTR but we will see that happen at some point).
 
In this one paragraph, you presented more legitimate scholarship on Tolkien's works than that entire seminar will produce. I predict everything presented at that conference will be basically boiled down to :"How racist was Tolkien, and how can we rewrite his works so that they won't offend woketards who have no interest in reading them?"

Thank you. I was riled up. I like Tolkien. He was a smart person who had interesting thoughts and told good stories. But with Chris's death, it's becoming a franchise. It will go woke, we will see new material tailored for the PRC, and eventually there will be a trigger warning published with every copy of The Lord of the Rings.

This work contains harmful depictions of Western Europeans (Dunedain) and People Of Color (Haradrim, Easterlings). These depictions were wrong then, and they are wrong now. But since this book is the inspiration for the hit Amazon Prime streaming series Middle-earth, it is being published in limited quantities for examination by the curious.

If you want to read some real fart sniffing, check this out, it's from the Wikipedia entry on the spider Shelob:

It's the most vapid bullshit I have read in a long time...
Tolkien designed Shelob to mirror Ungoliant, in a kind of pre-Lucasian "It's like poetry, it rhymes" moment. So the question is, is Ungoliant a Freudian vagina dentata? The answer is no, that's stupid. I would suggest Tolkien made Ungoliant female to invert the happy marriages of the other Valar. The Elder King has the Starkindler, beloved of all the Elves; the Dark Lord briefly had the companionship a giant light-devouring spider who tried to kill him. And if Tolkien was familiar with spider behavior, he'd know that female spiders try to kill males if mating fails, so there's some sexual subtext to the Morgoth-Ungoliant confrontation, but it's not Freudian. (Then again, Ungoliant did have baby giant spiders, so who's to say mating failed.)

And I can't parse that sentence about Galadriel. I had to read it three times before I realized the word "and" shouldn't be there.

Do you really expect beautiful people to portray elves in the future? If anything, we'll get some "health at all sizes" or "black is beautiful" bullshit... or, gods forbid, female elves played entirely by a stock of rabid troons (mark my words, sooner or later, someone is going to make something like that unironically, maybe not in LOTR but we will see that happen at some point).

In Babylon 5, which was heavily influenced by LOTR, JMS originally wanted the Elf-like alien Delenn to be a transsexual. They planned to give the actress masculine makeup and deepen her voice, then she'd go into a cocoon and emerge with her natural features and voice. Maybe the influence will flow back and we will see Elves go into cocoons and emerge as the opposite sex. "Tolkien never said Elves couldn't go into cocoons and change sex, bigot!"
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
In Babylon 5, which was heavily influenced by LOTR, JMS originally wanted the Elf-like alien Delenn to be a transsexual. They planned to give the actress masculine makeup and deepen her voice, then she'd go into a cocoon and emerge with her natural features and voice. Maybe the influence will flow back and we will see Elves go into cocoons and emerge as the opposite sex. "Tolkien never said Elves couldn't go into cocoons and change sex, bigot!"
We've reached a point where Leslie Jones is more likely to portray an elf than Morena Baccarin and that makes me sad.
 

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