Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[ChaChaHeels:BlackOnes]

Man, I saved up a bunch of quotes, inserted them in a post and promptly crashed it. Bollocks.
Can’t be arsed to go find them again, soz.

Re: estrogen making men more volatile/prone to anger and that feeling counterintuitive... I’ve been posting on another thread about dogs and how their behaviour is both nature and nurture combined (aggression is not purely a matter of how they are raised, it can be in their breeding of a result of being in pain, for example). I’m a firm believer in reminding ourselves that we are just mammals, big brained, complicated mammals, for sure, but still mammals. Reading this thread and the dog thread in tandem today and, well, incoming spergery ...

In dogs (especially male dogs) there is this pervasive idea that castration will fix a lot of behaviour issues, and it can work, but it’s dependent on what is the root of those behavioural issues.
What is rarely talked about is that in some dogs, perhaps in lots of dogs, castration can actually cause aggression, this kind of aggression is usually described as fear based aggression.

Extract from https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/new-research-does-neutering-help-with-aggression/

Some of the negative behaviors found in neutered male dogs in the study included:

• Rather than reduced aggression, the neutered male dogs in the study were found more likely to show aggression when strangers such as delivery workers were near the home, when the dog was approached by an unknown female dog and when small animals entered the yard.
• The study also found that the behaviors were worse in dogs that were neutered earlier.
• The neutered dogs also demonstrated more fear-based behaviors like reactions to loud noises and new situations.
• Intact dogs were less likely to eat feces – either their own or another dog’s. They were also less likely to roll in feces or other smelly things.
• Intact dogs were also less likely to bark persistently when they became alarmed.
• Intact dogs were less likely to mount objects, furniture or people.
• Intact dogs were also less likely to chase animals.

“The pattern of these results is quite clear: Neutering male dogs causes an increase in aggressive behavior, fearful behavior, over-excitability and a variety of other miscellaneous, undesirable behaviors,” wrote Coren. “What is also clear is that early neutering produces an even greater negative effect on behaviors.”

Why does this happen? Well, it’s broadly accepted that it’s caused by the reduction in circulating testosterone (which is what MtF troons induce in themselves, either with blockers (GnRHa drugs) anti androgens, or via abnormally high levels of oestrogen (via E mono therapy)

Quote from here: https://www.theveterinarynurse.com/...hs-commonly-associated-with-neutering-in-dogs
(my bold)

Increasing fearfulness​

Circulating testosterone is associated with increased self confidence and reduced fearfulness (Terburg and van Honk, 2013) so castration can potentially increase fearfulness, especially in dogs that are already nervous.

I don’t think it’s a big leap to assume that those MtF troons who already have low self confidence and/or social anxiety and choose to artificially suppress their testosterone via chemical or surgical castration will experience a similar rise in fear based aggression.

Male sex offenders have been treated with pretty much all the same drugs that are currently used in MtF transition, their use is pretty controversial because even when successful at killing off the libido, they either do nothing about the aggression or make it worse. This is why a male offender shouldn’t be able to use a cock chop as an entry ticket to a female prison, he’ll still be an aggressive sex offender, he’ll just be a) even angrier and b) more inventive in his pervery, now that he can‘t be a standard rapist (wannabe rapists with erectile dysfunction often resort to using objects for penetration, as any true crime fan knows).

I’ve posted a little of my personal battle against troonery in the bad SRS/ gender quacks thread but a quick recap is

Spoiler: Long, bit powerlevelly...

I’ve always been around MtF troons and didn’t really care about them much beyond finding them a bit vacuous (the HSTS types) and a bit repulsive (the AGP types), it was always obviously a sexually motivated thing (for the HSTS it’s a sexual survival strategy, they love masculine, straight-seeming men and the combo of being at the bottom of the gay hierarchy and fancying the types of men at the top make troonery an almost logical game plan, eg ladyboys and their western equivalent, Blaire White types) and the AGPs were just knicker-wanking crossdressers, chasing their own fetish dragon until throwing their lives away over it as a midlife crisis. The handful of FtMs I’ve known were the megabutch lesbian equivalents of the HSTS types, always mistaken for men anyway so kind of easier just to roll with it and find yourself a femmelesbian, settle down and play out a public pseudoheterosexual lifestyle reverting to lesbianism in the bedroom - this all chimes with the pre Blanchard theory about transsexualism - that it’s a inverse form of sexual orientation (which is why the original naming had the ‘sexual’ suffix, not because you are changing sex, but because you are either heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or transsexual, transsexuals having the sexual orientation/behaviour/motivations more typical of the opposite sex)

This was, of course, the olden times, when all the in-group language was different. MtFs divided themselves into TS/TV (TS are the ones that were originally called ‘true scum’ but like ‘terf’ that’s lost all meaning due to over use) and ‘cis’ wasn’t a thing (instead it was TG - Trans Girls and GG - Genetic Girls or RG - Real Girls). I don’t really know why but I’ve always ended up in social groups with perverts and degenerates, despite being pretty ‘vanilla’. I guess I give off vibes that get me erroneously invited to perverts dinner parties or something? I’ve never really cared what people do in their own homes/private sex clubs as long as it’s truly consensual (although the older I get the more I understand that what looks and feels like ‘consent’ might really be grooming or maladaptive responses to past trauma or whatever). Still, I’ve always been quite nonplussed and unshockable and not really bothered by other people’s weird shit, you do you, boo, just clean up properly after.

It was knowing the sexual motivations behind troonery and generally accepting them that made me go ‘hold the fuck on a minute’ when legions of tween and teen girls suddenly started ‘coming out’ and puff pieces about ‘trans kids’ started appearing on mainstream and prime time.
It just didn’t make any sense to me, and seemed obvious that whatever it was they were experiencing it wasn’t the same as the old TS/TV/ButchlesbianFtM phenomenon. I’d already begun falling through the Mumsnet terve radicalisation portal when ROGD arrived in our immediate social circle via a 13 year old nerdy girl (possibly undiagnosed high functioning autist) but it’s my worries and desire to protect her that has turned me into a walking, talking, tranny encyclopaedia. She’s not my kid, so I have to try and help her mum whilst appearing neutral enough not to alienate her. It’s pretty hard on her whole family and it’s breaking her parents hearts, who just want her to be healthy and happy. The influence is coming from online, but also from peers and from dickhead adults in school and in LGBT orgs. ‘Coming out’ has made her totally fucking miserable, she’s about as happy as Ellen/Elliot Page looks in photos. Thankfully her parents are holding the line against any sort of physical intervention and won’t play the pronoun powergame either, however it’s clearly not good for a kid ‘s psychological health to be living a split identity with teachers (!) calling them one name and affirming their cross sex delusions and parents doing the opposite. Luckily this is taking place on Terf Island so there is less fear about resisting this than there would be in say, Canada.

This place has really helped me understand the modern day INCEL/autist variation on the old AGPs (they come out A LOT earlier these days, which is probably good in terms of minimising the numbers of future transwidows and mentally scarred children of transitioners but also probably pretty awful in terms post transition happiness/physical health. I really worry about the adolescent boys who are being groomed into really early surgical intervention by middle aged and older AGPs who have thoroughly enjoyed their own dick and balls for decades) and the whatever the fuck it is that’s happening to girls - I suspect the Aidens are as different to the Gaydens as the old TS were different to the TVs. There is definitely some cross over between FTM and MTF motivations and behaviours and some common traits between the older trannies and the current ones, but the internet/pro troon media propaganda/online avatars/role play games/cross sex cosplay has caused some weird warps and sped the whole thing up.
I do think it will implode (there is too much conflict between new nonbinary propaganda and classic troonism propaganda and the inevitable purity spiral will damage all of it) but in the meantime, I want to prevent as many kids as possible from fucking their future health up, and one of the most effective ways to put them off is to just point at the absolute worst horrors from the older, uglier tranny population and let them reach their own conclusions.
No point in arguing on Twitter, documenting, disseminating and engaging with actual legal mechanisms (government consultations, contacting representatives, engaging in or fundraising for ‘lawfare’ etc) is much more effective.

 

[Kornula]

About a year ago, I was "discussing" troonism with troons (the non-binary kind) on youtube. I asked one of them to repeat every argument they had just posted with me and replace "non-binary" and "genderfluid" with "Jesus" and "god".

The instant response was sad and hilarious; they said it had nothing to do with "Jesus" or "god" or Christianity whatsoever. They have zero comprehension skills.

 

[Putin Bot]

I've only known personally two troons. One was an HSTS male, and the other was a FTM.

I knew the HSTS when I was young, and he really, even when I think back, he passed extremely well, his voice sounded like a woman with a husky voice, he was very slender. and was the rare male who did have somewhat of a waist. Even now when I look back on him, though now I can immediately pick up on his masculine features, in my memories of him, there is times where I do think he truly did look female. I also felt really bad for him, because he went to the city school, and a bunch of niggers ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him because in the mid 00s, trannies were extremely rare, so he dropped out of school. At the same time, he was apparently really evil towards his mother, enough to the point that she paid for him to have a studio apartment because they got into a fight and he threatened her with a knife, and she did not feel safe living with him. And he told me that story with pride in voice. Because he got what he wanted, which was his own apartment. Definitely a narcissist.

The other was a coworker. I remember when I first saw her in the break room, I immediately clocked her as female. And I have to say, that was my first shock at seeing a trans person, as I was still supportive of trans people. She absolutely did not pass. She was 4'11", her voice sounded like a prepubescent boy, and she only had a few hairs on her chin. I just felt an immense sadness for her, because she would never pass, and what happened to her to not want to be perceived as a woman? I also constantly worried about her going into the men's bathroom, because of how tiny she is, and like I said, it was quite obvious she was female.

I really sympathize with FTMs and nonbinary women, and just feel immense sadness for them, because I do suffer with gender dysphoria and also have aspergers.. I don't even know if it's even gender dysphoria, it's just so weird to describe, and it's definitely due to traumatic events I've experienced in the past. I don't want to be a man, I know I will never become a man, and I'm totally fine with that. However, I have a huge desire to appear sexless, so that way I won't get any sexual attention. Though I think binders are absolutely horrible, I still sometimes ponder how different I'd look if I had a flat chest under my clothes. Due to all the FTMs posting what they look like after a double mastectomy, I am just horrified, because it's so unnatural and is such an invasive surgery, and is a level of mutilation that I would never go through. I used to cut, but holy shit, I would never want to literally cut off parts of my body. That is literal insanity. And the dysphoria comes and goes. Some days, it doesn't even come up and I dress as normal, but other days, I really wish that people didn't perceive me as female and I was just a humanoid and I try to dress in baggy clothes and slouch, in hopes that I'll be less noticeable, especially by men. And I really hate how sexualized women, teens, and young girls are in today's society. I'm not trying to brag, but I am considered attractive, and I fucking hate all the attention I get from it, especially after some traumatic events. It's totally understandable why women are trying to escape being women.

And I feel for the MTFs who troon out due to experiencing sexual trauma. It really does do a fucking number on you, and even if you think you've gotten over it, it does affect the way you view yourself, other people, and the way you move through the world.

 

[literal autist]

I also felt really bad for him, because he went to the city school, and a bunch of niggers ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him because in the mid 00s, trannies were extremely rare, so he dropped out of school.

Fuck joggers man. I had a gay black kid out me to the entire (very homophobic) school when I was going through my Aiden phase, which led to a lot of harassment. To this day I have no idea why he did it. I never did anything to him. When the teacher made him "apologize" to me he just started talking about how the other kids at my school thought I was "weird and creepy" and how everyone hated me. Got away with a slap on the wrist, of course.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Pussy. Find the gals who still exist and support those bitches and dick them if they're receptive. You have to try harder, not be discouraged.

>having sex
>in 2021

Sounds like someone likes living on the edge.

 

[Aunt Carol]

I really sympathize with FTMs and nonbinary women, and just feel immense sadness for them, because I do suffer with gender dysphoria and also have aspergers.. I don't even know if it's even gender dysphoria, it's just so weird to describe, and it's definitely due to traumatic events I've experienced in the past. I don't want to be a man, I know I will never become a man, and I'm totally fine with that. However, I have a huge desire to appear sexless, so that way I won't get any sexual attention.[...] And the dysphoria comes and goes. Some days, it doesn't even come up and I dress as normal, but other days, I really wish that people didn't perceive me as female and I was just a humanoid and I try to dress in baggy clothes and slouch, in hopes that I'll be less noticeable, especially by men. And I really hate how sexualized women, teens, and young girls are in today's society. I'm not trying to brag, but I am considered attractive, and I fucking hate all the attention I get from it, especially after some traumatic events. It's totally understandable why women are trying to escape being women.

I completely understand this sentiment. Being female isn't an attribute that exists in a vacuum: there are consequences for being perceived as female, and they come earlier than girls are ready for them.

I don't have citations at hand, but how many FtXs have posted funny and original quips about how their preferred pronouns are that don't want to be seen or addressed at all, really?

Related, from My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness (read weebly R to L):

Online here.

Express this anxiety out loud in the anglosphere and the groomers surround you.

 

[The Emperor Skeksis]

I don't have citations at hand, but how many FtXs have posted funny and original quips about how their preferred pronouns are that don't want to be seen or addressed at all, really?

That's sad. I dunno, I find it hard to relate to FTMs and non-binaries and their self-hatred. I would understand if bad experiences and sexualisation made you a radfem man-hater, but wanting to vanish or change yourself completely is very strange to me. I guess I wish these girls would get angry at the world, instead of self-destructive - you can do things with righteous anger, including let it go when you're older. But hurting yourself never helps.

 

[Aaa0aaa0]

Because "they just don't understand the pain I'm going through"
A lot of them have this woe is me teenage attitude about this stuff. When in reality, your amily and friends are telling you trooning out is a big mistake because they don't want you to become a freak and 41% yourself and not because they hate you.
They automatically assume people they know are close minded and unconsciously bigoted but randoms are so open and understanding the troof!
Its a clownworld thing i don't understand and something i don't want to understand.

Troons are magical happy people who have all the answers and say what the person wants to hear, instead of what they need to hear is what I imagine goes on. When you're desperate to stop feeling shitty, anything works.

Spoiler: Powerlevelling

I thank God each and every day that this troonery bullshit was not around while I grew up. I've always been effeminate, even as a child. At 15 I used to cry myself to sleep that I wasn't born a girl, at 17 I started dating someone who encouraged me to crossdress, at 19 I went by "whatever pronouns". Had I been a decade younger, I would have been fast-tracked to troonsville so quick it would make your head spin. Today I am (nearly) 30, and comfortable as an effeminate fag. Fuck trannies and their misery-death-cult.

You are based and I am proud you stand up for your hard gay ass. Shine on, you crazy gaymond.

The “NB” I know stormed out of the room in a huff when I tried to call him out on his bullshit - he was explaining his identity to my friends who are out of the loop when it comes to this madness, didn’t catch all of the conversation but he mentioned something about how he doesn’t conform to gender stereotypes and also he’s autistic and has a slew of other mental disorders that make it hard for him to deal. I feel for ya with the mental disorders, bud, that sucks and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but tons of people don’t follow stereotypes, but neither do they identify as non binary, and now the otherwise clueless people in my circles are getting brainwashed by a greasy soy boy who thinks wearing eyeshadow and jewellery makes him a “she/they, queer gremlin disaster”.

"I wear and like girly things therefore I am girl" is a very black and white way of seeing things so its no wonder. Sorry about the rest of your friends.

Why are they always so infuriatingly fucking twee?

Escapism. Anything better than their real life and their real selves and bodies.

I'd say this is the conversation that "peak transed" me because beforehand I didn't know that people would use trooning out as a "fix" for other issues in their life and had assumed everyone who did it was True and Honest.

This is what makes me fear the most. Both adults who want to find a cure for the gay and more importantly the insane parents trying to make their sweet child Jesus complaint. Because some psychos think that curing gay by transitioning means that it's ok because you're correcting a medical condition instead of you raising your kid to be a fruit ( ).

This is one of the worse parts of troonism for me, hands down. Several online friends seem to have done this, and its so upsetting to see. Good on your friend for getting out of it and away from her.

I stopped walking on eggshells 30 years ago. I stopped gtiving a complete fuck as to how people reacted to my ideas. If they like them, I keep engaging in a conversation. If they start screaming and yelling at me.. I walk away at that point. They obviously don't want to hear any opposing view point.

Oh man, you're a grouchy grandpa gay. Keep it up, not like I need to tell you that.

he got what he wanted, which was his own apartment.

:horrifying:

However, I have a huge desire to appear sexless, so that way I won't get any sexual attention.

I have a few nonbinary friends online, and just by how they act I feel like they're in the same boat without talking about their trauma. Its such a complicated situation and I wouldn't speak to them about it without them bringing it up first. I'm glad you're soldiering on homie, I feel you and wish you the best to keep those feelings at bay. You're wise enough not to go into it in the first place, I got faith in you.

>having sex
>in 2021

Sounds like someone likes living on the edge.

Bone free or die hard.

That's sad. I dunno, I find it hard to relate to FTMs and non-binaries and their self-hatred. I would understand if bad experiences and sexualisation made you a radfem man-hater, but wanting to vanish or change yourself completely is very strange to me. I guess I wish these girls would get angry at the world, instead of self-destructive - you can do things with righteous anger, including let it go when you're older. But hurting yourself never helps.

Females are less likely to lash out at others and instead blame themselves, whether by nature or who there is around them. Changing yourself to blend in is also our defense mechanism: instead of binge eating to make yourself less appealing or buying the newest fashion so you don't get bullied (tamer comparitively), you blend in by being unappealing. Its sad and one of the things I won't forgive troons for. Note: my upsetness also holds true for male sexual assault victims, we need to stand with our brothers when we can (I won't force female victims though, just encourage male and female nonvictims).

 

[Kornula]

I used to actually love engaging in random conversations with total strangers.

People ruined that for me.

 

[The Last Boyscout]

I resent the tumblr and discord troons that influenced this but I'm also angry with her for trading years of friendship for easy internet validation. There's no way I could communicate that without losing her entirely though. If it was just a schoolfriend I wouldn't care about any of this, but she's been like my other half since nursery and I miss her so much (cheesy ik).

don't feel like powerleveling myself in this thread, and I know I'm super late with this reply so rate clocks or whatevs, but just wanted to say - I totally get that and in no way are you alone in this. damn the internet and the weak-minded who love being told by it whatever it is they want to hear.

I used to actually love engaging in random conversations with total strangers.

People ruined that for me.

oh okay, a wee bit of a powerlevel...fortunately enough don't live or do the kind of things IRL where I'd encounter the same kinds (especially this type) of people, so fingers crossed this love of mine doesn't get soured and I feel ya. As for the internet, random convos are poisoned by bots, politics and insanity for good and there's no going back I feel.

 

[Mococoa]

None of these individuals were particularly close to me, but I remember them nonetheless and as I have been falling deeper into the tranny nonsense they have popped into my head several times. I have given them alternative names, obviously. Inevitable power-levelling incoming:

Spoiler: Number 1

We'll call this individual 'Marcy'. Marcy used to be 'Mark', and this particular troon is an individual I have known since childhood, through family friends. I met them as a troon, I did not witness them transition. However, this person is noteworthy as this happened quite a while before the TRA cult became so popular. No one really was against Marcy trooning out, and I remember a lot of my family friends were supportive, they would often talk about how Marcy was 'born in the wrong body' and when they knew Mark as a little boy they could tell because he would often come downstairs with a towel wrapped on his head saying that he's a princess or some bullshit. Even my own parents supported this. They and all the family friends who knew Marcy said that he'd finally be a woman when he 'got the op'. He ended up getting the stink-ditch. He passed pretty well, and I remember when I told my friend that he's trans she couldn't believe it (back then being able to pass was actually a requirement to troon out). His younger sister ended up being trans too, but it's not social contagion, right? I used to be friends with Marcy, he would hang out at this gay bar I sometimes went to because it's the only place in my town that's open late, he also worked there sometimes. Marcy had other tranny friends. They seemed nice enough, I used to share the bathroom with them, I didn't mind it so much back then, but I was also a naive teen. He also snogged me randomly and I thought that was pretty weird, especially as he is the 'classic' homosexual-transsexual. Marcy pretty much disappeared one day, they got a boyfriend who apparently was very abusive and wouldn't let him leave the house for anything. He stopped showing up to work so he got fired. No one has heard from him for years.

Spoiler: Number 2

I only met this individual a handful of times as a bloke. We'll call him 'Nicky' who used to be 'Nick'. There isn't much to say about this person, except that they were very quiet. When I met them they only said a handful of things the entire night. He was pretty funny even though he didn't say much, and quite attractive. Then one day, when we meet his friends at a different place, they told me that Nick was now 'Nicky'. I saw him at the same gay bar I talked about previously. He looked exactly the same except he dyed his hair, put make up on and was wearing a dress. I find it interesting as well because when he was 'Nick', one of the only things he said when someone was discussing Charles Darwin on the back of a tenner, was that it's "the queen without a wig on". I always remembered that and I found it hilarious at the time. I gave him a whole spiel when I saw him again as 'Nicky' about how beautiful he looked because I was a moron teenager. I didn't really think he looked beautiful and I think he knew that I thought that too.

Spoiler: Number 3

This one is much more recent. I met this person and his friends through a protest in my nearest city. Thought they looked like a cool bunch but they're pretty much just hippie-wannabes with mental health issues. Of course they are deep in the trans kool-aid. So one day, as similar as before, I was informed by 'Victor's' friends that he is now called 'Victoria', and he is trans. He has a disabled girlfriend who has a kid. I thought it was pretty stupid and said that straight men are pretending to be lesbians because they watch too much porn. They aren't friends with me any more and I don't care.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Deepland Bystander]

Update : my friend who trooned out, initially with a self awareness that it's a fetish. Finally convinced it's the "authentic self" and now recieving asspats on Facebook for outing.

The thing is, I am actually envious of troons now. They have can come out being true to their "authentic self" and all their spirituality that goes against the constraints of nature... a modern exemplar of self actualisation.. Regardless if those things are true or not. They seem to be universally celebrated for what is actually identity issues, fetish and body dysmorphia. Sometimes that doesn't seem to require efforts or any real sense of work. Everyone will love them for it regardless of how insufferable they can be.

But sadly I see through all the lies... And i really cant convince myself any of this is real. Is there any bad thing about trooning out at all?

 

[Vingle]

But sadly I see through all the lies... And i really cant convince myself any of this is real. Is there any bad thing about trooning out at all?

Most, if not all troon lives gets worse after they transition. Only reason for why it's perceived as "good", is because. They're mentally ill, like actually. Delusions isn't rational.
Gender dysphoria is a diagnosis, and like pedophilia. It can't be fully treated. They hide the problematic stuff with transition too, like how puberty blockers wreak havoc on your system. Which isn't reversible. Many have problems with neo-vaginas that is just wrong and doctors ghosting them. Whole threads about the topic here

The question is more, if there's any good thing about trooning out?

 

[Atatata]

Is there any bad thing about trooning out at all?

At the end if the day, you can't run away from the fact that the body and brain were not meant to handle that sort of thing.

Gender differences go all the way down to the bone structure, to the way the body functions and grows. Its impossible to change it all. The unnessessary hormones and surgery just leave the body mutilated and more uncomfortable than ever.

 

[Sperghetti]

I completely understand this sentiment. Being female isn't an attribute that exists in a vacuum: there are consequences for being perceived as female, and they come earlier than girls are ready for them.

I don't have citations at hand, but how many FtXs have posted funny and original quips about how their preferred pronouns are that don't want to be seen or addressed at all, really?

Related, from My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness (read weebly R to L):
View attachment 2149709
Online here.

Express this anxiety out loud in the anglosphere and the groomers surround you.

I get it. I wouldn’t even call it "self loathing" since it’s not really you that you have a problem with, it’s other people’s perceptions and assumptions of you.

Spoiler: Not Like The Other Girls - The Rant

I, personally, have never had a bad experience with a guy so I can't blame men for it. From my experience, this has come from entirely from other women.

I don’t really see my sex as anything other than another physical trait of mine, analogous to my height or hair color. All things considered, I actually feel a bit lucky because I can get away with a wider variety of interests without people getting on my case or calling me a fag, but I could also wake up as the opposite sex tomorrow and it wouldn't affect my core sense of self in the slightest.

But then there are some people for whom their sex is a core part of their identity, something that has a big hand in their their interests, goals, and roles in life. And they tend to assume that other people of the same sex must be similar to them in these ways. I just get tired of women talking at me about things that they assume I must relate to or care about because I am also female. I can definitely understand wishing people would just see you as an individual first and foremost, not just "a woman" and then append a whole list of wrong assumptions to it. If I were younger, I could understand the appeal of calling yourself non-binary to try and avoid shit like that, and I imagine it would be even worse if you did have bad experiences with the opposite sex.

As I've gotten older, though, I think I've just sort of come to terms with the fact that dumb assumptions on the part of others are just something many people have to deal with in life, especially if you don't live up to a stereotype.

 

[Aunt Carol]

I just get tired of women talking at me about things that they assume I must relate to or care about because I am also female. I can definitely understand wishing people would just see you as an individual first and foremost, not just "a woman" and then append a whole list of wrong assumptions to it. If I were younger, I could understand the appeal of calling yourself non-binary to try and avoid shit like that, and I imagine it would be even worse if you did have bad experiences with the opposite sex.

As I've gotten older, though, I think I've just sort of come to terms with the fact that dumb assumptions on the part of others are just something many people have to deal with in life, especially if you don't live up to a stereotype.

Well said. I'm glad I had the space, growing up, to quietly arrive at similar conclusions.

Having the pressure to pick a cool gender (because being feminine isn't cool if a woman is doing it, and being a cishet is icky) is probably one more stressor for a lot of teenage girls. Dunno if I'd have lopped my tits off if I were twenty years younger, but it would have been an even more confusing time.

 

[Aaa0aaa0]

Update : my friend who trooned out, initially with a self awareness that it's a fetish. Finally convinced it's the "authentic self" and now recieving asspats on Facebook for outing.

The thing is, I am actually envious of troons now. They have can come out being true to their "authentic self" and all their spirituality that goes against the constraints of nature... a modern exemplar of self actualisation.. Regardless if those things are true or not. They seem to be universally celebrated for what is actually identity issues, fetish and body dysmorphia. Sometimes that doesn't seem to require efforts or any real sense of work. Everyone will love them for it regardless of how insufferable they can be.

But sadly I see through all the lies... And i really cant convince myself any of this is real. Is there any bad thing about trooning out at all?

For one, you live in fear of the community even if you tow the line. People in sjw crowds can AND will do it with little provocation. Some of our long term thread troons have been such (like Kevin). Only some cluster b types escape from it because they thrive on being bastards.


Second, you'll meet a lot of boring, autistic, unstable, and deranged people when trying to find other enlightened individuals. Boring people who talk mostly about being lgbt to an annoying degree, autistic people who aren't bad but can be repetitive in interest and harder to communicate with, people going through struggles of mental health who can be harder to handle if you don't have the energy for it, and deranged fetishist and manipulators because troons. The first 3 people aren't bad, they can just be exhausting to make friends with. Your normal friends will be mostly cis and your strange friends will be mostly trans - it just comes with the territory.

Trooning also cost money if you put effort into it. And at least half do - "I'm not going to take anything, just socially transition" goes to "Ok, just hormones and THEN I'll feel better", then to "All I need is this last surgery and THEN I'll stop having dysphoria." This usually happens because people are influenced by others in their friendship circle, on accident or by on purpose grooming.

And this leads to the final problem: you reach the last step, but... your problems aren't fixed. You would still hate yourself and or your body, or you would still have mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, or your parents would still dislike you if you were honest and stayed a gay man/lesbian, or you would still be chasing after that autogynophilia/autoyaoiphilia high. I talk about destructive transitioning, and when I say it I mean it: you try to escape and ignore your problems, but they don't go away because you're not actually addressing them. This is one of the most destructive things about troons and its hard to convey to outsiders looking in and to people swept up in the transitioning craze. Mental health is no joke, and this is why the suicide rate is how it is with trans people - they're banaiding their big gash. (second highest is if they get botched surgery causing them pain or disability which is upsettingly common as most are experimental procedures - also a big gash if male [thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week]).

You "win" because people outside of the cult humor you and give you praise because they think you're taking steps to keep from killing yourself. You "win" on websites, college campuses, hipster communities, creative circles for turning your cis privilege in. You "win" by getting past sins washed away and forgiven. You "win" by getting a lovevombing support group that hugboxes you and devolves into self destructive behavior and fetishism half the time. You "win" small burst of confidence that fade away due to nagging realizations.

You'll also fear not presenting as "male/female/nonbinary" enough. You'll gain so many insecurities - does she realize I have an adam's apple? Do men still stare at my hips even if I have a beard? What's the most masculine way to phrase this? Which color is more feminine?? It's maddening.

Your gain in the short term, you lose in the long term. And it's fucking heartbreaking for those who were just trying to stop hating themselves.

 

[Abyssal Bulwark]

I've seen three (maybe four?) people troon out in my life (all three MTF), two I know for certain but two more I'm not sure about:

1. Obese guy I went to high school with. He came out as gay in middle school, and around our sophomore year of high school began saying he was trans. I never went along with it and always called him by his birth name (I never got in trouble for this); we had a history class together in my junior year, and the teacher called him by his birth name until halfway through the year. I think it was because he didn't want to lose his job.
2. Guy I knew in high school. I lost track of him for a number of years and found him again on Facebook back when I still used Facebook. Looking through his profile, I found out he was in a relationship with another man and finally trooned out during the height of Covid when lockdown was still on in my state. In their Facebook post where they came out as trans, they explained that they had spent a lot of time "thinking about their gender identity" during the lockdown.
3. The one I'm not sure about is another one I went to school with. I never knew his name, though I saw him in the hallway a lot (since middle school), and I noticed he began to wear lipstick and eyebrow makeup (not sure what it's called) in high school.
4. Not sure if this one counts, so I didn't vote for four people in the thread's poll. There was another kid I went to high school with (a male), and he always came to school dressed in this schoolgirl getup and I think some makeup as well. At the time, I considered him a trap rather than a troon, but it honestly would not surprise me if he's trooned out by now.

 

[Kornula]

For one, you live in fear of the community even if you tow the line. People in sjw crowds can AND will do it with little provocation. Some of our long term thread troons have been such (like Kevin). Only some cluster b types escape from it because they thrive on being bastards.


Second, you'll meet a lot of boring, autistic, unstable, and deranged people when trying to find other enlightened individuals. Boring people who talk mostly about being lgbt to an annoying degree, autistic people who aren't bad but can be repetitive in interest and harder to communicate with, people going through struggles of mental health who can be harder to handle if you don't have the energy for it, and deranged fetishist and manipulators because troons. The first 3 people aren't bad, they can just be exhausting to make friends with. Your normal friends will be mostly cis and your strange friends will be mostly trans - it just comes with the territory.

Trooning also cost money if you put effort into it. And at least half do - "I'm not going to take anything, just socially transition" goes to "Ok, just hormones and THEN I'll feel better", then to "All I need is this last surgery and THEN I'll stop having dysphoria." This usually happens because people are influenced by others in their friendship circle, on accident or by on purpose grooming.

And this leads to the final problem: you reach the last step, but... your problems aren't fixed. You would still hate yourself and or your body, or you would still have mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, or your parents would still dislike you if you were honest and stayed a gay man/lesbian, or you would still be chasing after that autogynophilia/autoyaoiphilia high. I talk about destructive transitioning, and when I say it I mean it: you try to escape and ignore your problems, but they don't go away because you're not actually addressing them. This is one of the most destructive things about troons and its hard to convey to outsiders looking in and to people swept up in the transitioning craze. Mental health is no joke, and this is why the suicide rate is how it is with trans people - they're banaiding their big gash. (second highest is if they get botched surgery causing them pain or disability which is upsettingly common as most are experimental procedures - also a big gash if male [thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week]).

You "win" because people outside of the cult humor you and give you praise because they think you're taking steps to keep from killing yourself. You "win" on websites, college campuses, hipster communities, creative circles for turning your cis privilege in. You "win" by getting past sins washed away and forgiven. You "win" by getting a lovevombing support group that hugboxes you and devolves into self destructive behavior and fetishism half the time. You "win" small burst of confidence that fade away due to nagging realizations.

You'll also fear not presenting as "male/female/nonbinary" enough. You'll gain so many insecurities - does she realize I have an adam's apple? Do men still stare at my hips even if I have a beard? What's the most masculine way to phrase this? Which color is more feminine?? It's maddening.

Your gain in the short term, you lose in the long term. And it's fucking heartbreaking for those who were just trying to stop hating themselves.

Daaaym

 

[Wallace]

For one, you live in fear of the community even if you tow the line. People in sjw crowds can AND will do it with little provocation. Some of our long term thread troons have been such (like Kevin). Only some cluster b types escape from it because they thrive on being bastards.


Second, you'll meet a lot of boring, autistic, unstable, and deranged people when trying to find other enlightened individuals. Boring people who talk mostly about being lgbt to an annoying degree, autistic people who aren't bad but can be repetitive in interest and harder to communicate with, people going through struggles of mental health who can be harder to handle if you don't have the energy for it, and deranged fetishist and manipulators because troons. The first 3 people aren't bad, they can just be exhausting to make friends with. Your normal friends will be mostly cis and your strange friends will be mostly trans - it just comes with the territory.

Trooning also cost money if you put effort into it. And at least half do - "I'm not going to take anything, just socially transition" goes to "Ok, just hormones and THEN I'll feel better", then to "All I need is this last surgery and THEN I'll stop having dysphoria." This usually happens because people are influenced by others in their friendship circle, on accident or by on purpose grooming.

And this leads to the final problem: you reach the last step, but... your problems aren't fixed. You would still hate yourself and or your body, or you would still have mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, or your parents would still dislike you if you were honest and stayed a gay man/lesbian, or you would still be chasing after that autogynophilia/autoyaoiphilia high. I talk about destructive transitioning, and when I say it I mean it: you try to escape and ignore your problems, but they don't go away because you're not actually addressing them. This is one of the most destructive things about troons and its hard to convey to outsiders looking in and to people swept up in the transitioning craze. Mental health is no joke, and this is why the suicide rate is how it is with trans people - they're banaiding their big gash. (second highest is if they get botched surgery causing them pain or disability which is upsettingly common as most are experimental procedures - also a big gash if male [thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week]).

You "win" because people outside of the cult humor you and give you praise because they think you're taking steps to keep from killing yourself. You "win" on websites, college campuses, hipster communities, creative circles for turning your cis privilege in. You "win" by getting past sins washed away and forgiven. You "win" by getting a lovevombing support group that hugboxes you and devolves into self destructive behavior and fetishism half the time. You "win" small burst of confidence that fade away due to nagging realizations.

You'll also fear not presenting as "male/female/nonbinary" enough. You'll gain so many insecurities - does she realize I have an adam's apple? Do men still stare at my hips even if I have a beard? What's the most masculine way to phrase this? Which color is more feminine?? It's maddening.

Your gain in the short term, you lose in the long term. And it's fucking heartbreaking for those who were just trying to stop hating themselves.

One of the problems/features of being in a hugbox cult is that it makes your problems go away only when you obey the cult. That dopamine rush of affirmation can be taken away just as easily as it is given out.

Underneath, you're still the same person with the same problems, just now you've surrounded yourself with people who keep repeating the same lies until you start to believe them. That's why the euphoria of transitioning is temporary. You're not doing it for the self-actualization, you're doing it for the approval of the rest of the cult. You become an addict chasing his next hit, and it's never enough to satisfy the need. The metaphor of climbing a mountain with no summit that just gets steeper the further up you go is correct here. You can never become masculine "enough", or feminine "enough", because it is all coming from the external validation.

No matter where you go, there you are.