Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Kornula]

I've just had an argument about this today, and while I don't feel any guilt or shame about what I said I can see I definitely have caused a rift and further problems for myself saying it.

I get on very, very well with my partner's family. The in laws drop in several times a week unannounced, I babysit my partner's nieces and nephews fairly regularly and all that sort of thing. I don't mind it at all, it took a lot to get used to since my own family really aren't like that at all but I've adapted fairly well. They're all fairly atypical middle class socially progressive but economically conservative types.

Today my partner's older sister dropped in, and announced that her oldest girl at 16 has started to troon out. It seemed to happen pretty much over lockdown. She was a generic unremarkable peroxide blonde Starbucks wielding teenager who spent too much time on Instagram, but during the lockdown has spent increasing amounts of time becoming more withdrawn, spending even more time online and dressing in a fairly grungey manner. Slowly at first, but from what I gathered it hit lightning speed after her boyfriend of almost a year dumped her for a mutual friend.

Her mother has always been peak progressive "I want to be cool" Mom; she was nothing short of excited, her behaviour suggested to me she was actually pleased by the whole thing. In hindsight I should have seen it coming, but I stayed quiet and the partner was a bit dumbstruck.

"So, like we're going to hold a "Pride" party for his coming out. Itll be good to see we're all allies and he is valid. Maybe Dildo could make ?more of those cute cupcakes like he did for (other sisters) 30th?"

"Valid" must be a trigger word for me, because something clearly crossed my face while I was finding things to do in our open kitchen to avoid getting in on this. She asked what was up, I avoided answering, but she kept poking and poking and even my partner tried to pull her off that track (He doesn't have an opinion on troon shit and just says whatever he thinks will please his audience, ever the pacifist).

At first I said I couldn't go because they would post pictures and my role in a religion department wouldnt let me be political on current issues (my university wouldn't give a shit, it's secular), then I added on that sometimes it's nice to not have the spotlight on LGBT stuff because you want to be treated normally and not special or at least I know I did. "I'm really disappointed in you Dildo, and all of us, I had no idea you felt so oppressed by heteronormativity and we had all just not felt this".

"I'm not oppressed Jane (not her name), Im just not into Pride as a thing. Look at where I live and what I do, does it look like the straight white man is bullying me?"

Cutting it short I basically flat out admitted I don't want to get involved. I'll be nice, I'll use her pronouns to her face and even use her new name but please don't make me participate in this.

Jane went fucking rage mode. Shes in her mid forties and literally started full on screaming like a Tumblr feminist teenage girl that I was a bigot, shes disgusted, she thought I left my Catholic bigotry in the past and that I was a "threat to our (their families) children" and that she wouldn't step foot in our house again, she was just glad she didn't bring her kid to tell me because she can't imagine how much pain it would have caused her that her uncles partner (I was Uncle Dildo prior to this) was a "Tory bigot". I couldn't help but laugh at the last one, since other than her I'm fairly sure most of their family votes Conservative and even she's a very tentative Liberal Democrat who holds her nose at Labor.

To his credit, my guy did interceed on my behalf while she was there and told her to chill the fuck out and not to talk to me like that. Once she left, we had an argument where he wanted me to apologise and offer to make the cakes (The "It was just so big a shock, thank you for teaching me how to be an ally" speech) and now we're not talking today because I've dug my trench and said I'm not going to celebrate a teenage girl starting a lifetime of pillpopping.

Jane's father has called me today and told me in a very carefully worded way he wasn't entirely pleased with the news but "You know how things are these days, you have to be supportive".

It's wonderfully ironic. I'm being guilted by radlibs and browbeaten betas into make cupcakes for troons, I was fucking for the Christians not baking the gay cake.

I'm aware Kiwifarms isn't my support circle, but I thought I'd share since I'm sure you'll enjoy the irony.

That is a tough spot to be in.

There is literally nothing else anyone can or should say... but be brave.
We are in dark times.

PS. I just thought of something you can say to your husband. You can tell him that you are being supportive - by not allowing or supporting a life altering decision by a child. You know, like getting a tatto.. or allowing them to smoke or drink alcohol. Ironically, a tattoo and/or body peircing can be removed with minimal but permanant effects. Changing your whole body.. no so much. You can also bring up the pesky well documented fact that about 40% of adults who transition get "buyers remorse" and want to de-transition. If they don't believe you... simply have them log onto youtube and search for "de-transitioning" You will notice it will generate a long list of videos on this subject.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

I'd love to be fucked by her.

Libertarian moment

We may lose people to the gay but there will always be those who embrace it

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I currently have a younger FtM friend who is focused on moving away from her homophobic family so she can "speedrun transition". She has been OBSESSED with yaoi for years, constantly talks about how attractive gay men are, and longs to be a hot man, so I'm pretty sure she's whatever the girl version of an autogynephiliac is called.

Autoandrophile, by deduction.

 

[Aaa0aaa0]

@On a Journey Keep us updated. I hope he at least makes more friends now that he wants to transition, and hope your thread showing has at least lead him to be wary of shitty trans people.

I hate to say this, but "asexual" can also be said by people not wanting to confront their fetishes (like Luna Tiny, aka toothpaste hair sjw comic maker). You know your brother though, rather hope for the best than expect the worst. Some people just don't want sexual relations and that's a ok.

@Dildo forgot to say, hope you and Mr. Dildo have patched things up and are enjoying your day. It sucks when the bigger conflict isn't beliefs but family for relationships, I'm just glad you got faith in your relationship and will do your best to work things out together.

 

[SunflowerFieldTrad]

@Aaa0aaa0, glad you made this. I'm just dropping a couple of links.

Trans Widows Voices is a site that compiles user stories of their partner trooning out. It's a heavy read.

The BITE model breaks down how authoritarian mind control operates, parts are very relevant.

Thank you so much for the resources, I've been looking but it's hard to find anything that isn't "listen and believe" (praise blindly)

 

[Neurotypical Mantis]

probably huge powerleveling but

Spoiler: oh god im poooowering

i knew a guy who used to be some anti sjw blog on tumblr who trooned out, it was really disappointing and he tried to push me into taking hormones early when i was still on the fence. absolutely fucking creepy and groomery. that being said i've been on t for about 7 months now and things have been going fine, but this is years after he tried to troongroom me and after i got the fuck away from him. my ex-stepsister (who is at least 26 or something, complete grown woman) is also apparently "nonbinary" now and i'm so fucking glad my dad divorced from her mom before i had to witness that bullshit

 

[Raisin Boy]

I used to hang around in a lot of 4chan-related spaces when I was a kid. Naturally, obviously, that meant that I inadvertently made friends with a couple of furries, weeaboos, all kinds of fairly innocuous weirdos. I've fallen out of contact with all of them- this would have been a decade ago -but there's this one dude who's stayed on my radar just because he's gotten weirder and weirder. He and his friend group seem to be about twelve deep, they respond to all of one another's tweets and shit like that. I just tallied it up the other day: out of the twelve whose Twitters I looked at, ten of them have come out as trans or non-binary in the period between '18 and today. Some of them used to be gay men, and now they identify as lesbian women.

There's lots of statistical anomalies like that. They're a tiny percentage of the population, ostensibly, but sometimes you see entire cliques of strange people troon out within close proximity of one another. Same thing happened to my ex. I found out they were getting into weirder and weirder porn, they got really interested in ContraPoints, made friends with a weird polyamorous FTM - and came out as trans. Man, that was a shitty day. They got worse and worse, radically reinventing their personality and falling deeper into weird bullshit. I don't want to go too deep into this, but within about six months, it was very obvious that things were over. This is a person I'd been with for almost two years, best relationship of my life till that happened.

Like I said, I could keep going on about this for a while, but the minute details aren't anyone's business and I don't want to relive them. Long story short, they started acting crazy, totally changed as a person. Gave up on all of their goals and ambitions except for the self-aggrandizing ones (becoming a beautiful woman, own fancy stuff, etc.) They popped the "we should open up the relationship a little," and at that point, I was only waiting on the lease to run out so I could just leave. That cracked it. They had a breakdown and begged me to stay, which successfully got me to stay put for a few more weeks, but I was checked out and I think they knew it. So, they were alternatively abusive and pitiful. I've had to deal with crazy people and their crazy shit in my life before, but it was nothing like that. I felt like I was walking on eggshells wearing soccer cleats.

Then finally it was over, and since they're a vindictive little cunt now, they ran around to all of their friends- our mutual friends -and their family saying I was abusive and a TERF. Those friends were like an umbrella on a drizzling day, I could take them or leave them. It sucks, but whatever. Their family was the primary reason I stayed where I was for those six months. I don't have a family of my own, and I loved those people. I made them Thanksgiving dinner every year, went to their Christmas, shit like that. At that point I was beyond my endurance to feel anything toward the situation, so I didn't even defend myself. I just dipped, took all the names I needed to out of my phone, and moved on.

To be clear, I am not a stupid man nor a particularly poor judge of character. The person I was with originally is not the same person I lived with for that half a year. It was like they got body-snatched while I wasn't looking. Honestly, it still confuses me how someone could blow up their life so rapidly, completely shift their values, their ambitions, their entire sexuality, and become a person I could no longer recognize. Kind of scares the fuck out of me, if I'm being real. Nowadays I think they're living in a polycule with two other troons, and all they talk about is coom shit on their Twitter between vagueposting threats of suicide.

Some of our old mutuals have reached out to me and said that they're just bizarre now. That's why I try to resist the urge to get all hateful or MATI in the Sideshows thread. In retrospect, my ex obviously lived a privileged life and wasn't prepared for the stress of the work they were doing. They had some kind of mental break and they got sucked into the tranny cult, started emulating the people they surrounded themselves with. They were vulnerable, unstable -- they're a victim, at the end of the day. Just, you know, so am I by extension.

Oh well! I'm just gonna keep killing it. Plenty of hot gay twinks in the sea.

 

[LooneyTroons]

Few troons but a fair couple of NB's in my life. My ex came out as nb recently but still goes by she as well as they and theres absolutely NOTHING masculine or androgynous in her appearance or how she presents herself. What even is the point at that stage? She's not even much of an SJW I think shes probably just caught up in twitter sperging and trying to cope with her own body issues. She thinks she has a "masculine" looking jaw when no one with functioning eyes would ever clock her as male, even with short hair, which she had while we were dating. It's all in your head love. In a hundred years when an archaeologist digs up your skull and tries to determine whether you were male or female by your bone structure, you'll be clocked as a girl.

I've a few others who are much more SJW, chubby, dyed hair, lots of piercings, emo/punky dress sense. Even though they still wear feminine clothes, again no androgyny here. Yesterday one literally shared a fucking Ben Shapiro quote on their insta with, I shit you not, the caption "Another cis white male offended by someone else's gender XD" Get a fucking grip S. Stop drinking, doing drugs, getting pets you can't care for cause you're jobless and still living at home, and stop letting the pint sized Alt-right Israelite live rent free inside your head.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Few troons but a fair couple of NB's in my life. My ex came out as nb recently but still goes by she as well as they and theres absolutely NOTHING masculine or androgynous in her appearance or how she presents herself. What even is the point at that stage?

I swear, when someone comes out as "nonbinary" these days, it's a bigger red flag than MtF/FtM. There's no endgame in nonbinary and the rules are always being written and rewritten.

"I'm nonbinary" means "Hey, guess what! I've decided to make my mental stability everyone else's problem."

If you're a woman who likes to present in a feminine manner, you gotta examine why you feel weird when people refer to you as a woman. Occam's razor suggests the problem is not with the entire rest of the planet, and the solution to this eternal problem that started in the 2000s is not to change everyone else's use of language.

 

[Pupworm]

I've been looking but it's hard to find anything that isn't "listen and believe" (praise blindly)

I would add
newthoughtcrime.com
to this list.
It's by a female detransitioner and is an essay breaking down the cult dynamics of the online trans community in a way that people like her when she was younger would be able to understand.

 

[wedgehog]

At least half the women I know -- mostly mid-20s to early 40s -- are they/thems at this point. All of them, in their coming-out announcements, made some kind of reference to "realizing I'm more than a woman" or "feeling constrained by expectations of women". These are all interesting, complex individuals who are so addled by gender stereotypes that they confuse "having a personality" with "not being a woman". I do my best not to make other people's internal struggles about me, but it's really fucking hard not to take it personally at this point. What do these people think a woman is -- and, by extension, what do they think of me for being one? Whether or not they'll say it out loud, everything they do betrays the belief that the only way to express complexity, independence, individuality, etc. as a female person is to disavow womanhood. It's the most deeply misogynistic movement I've ever seen reach the mainstream.

It especially pains me that so many of the they/thems I know have been bullied by other women. I get it: other girls can be fucking brutal, especially if you're too fat or not feminine enough. I understand acutely how it feels to be excluded from the "sisterhood". I too, when I was younger, flirted with the urge to say "fuck this, I'm out". The difference is that I grew up to understand that no one can tell me I don't count as a woman. I'm an adult human female, and that's all I need to be. These women talk a big game about how empowering it is to become a they/them, but to me it just seems like concession to their bullies. If other women say "you're not one of us", you say "fuck that" and make it clear that you're not going anywhere. Saying "actually, you're right" and enbying out is the saddest copium I've ever seen.

 

[Vingle]

At least half the women I know -- mostly mid-20s to early 40s -- are they/thems at this point. All of them, in their coming-out announcements, made some kind of reference to "realizing I'm more than a woman" or "feeling constrained by expectations of women". These are all interesting, complex individuals who are so addled by gender stereotypes that they confuse "having a personality" with "not being a woman". I do my best not to make other people's internal struggles about me, but it's really fucking hard not to take it personally at this point. What do these people think a woman is -- and, by extension, what do they think of me for being one? Whether or not they'll say it out loud, everything they do betrays the belief that the only way to express complexity, independence, individuality, etc. as a female person is to disavow womanhood. It's the most deeply misogynistic movement I've ever seen reach the mainstream.

It especially pains me that so many of the they/thems I know have been bullied by other women. I get it: other girls can be fucking brutal, especially if you're too fat or not feminine enough. I understand acutely how it feels to be excluded from the "sisterhood". I too, when I was younger, flirted with the urge to say "fuck this, I'm out". The difference is that I grew up to understand that no one can tell me I don't count as a woman. I'm an adult human female, and that's all I need to be. These women talk a big game about how empowering it is to become a they/them, but to me it just seems like concession to their bullies. If other women say "you're not one of us", you say "fuck that" and make it clear that you're not going anywhere. Saying "actually, you're right" and enbying out is the saddest copium I've ever seen.

It's pretty misogynic to think that you have to be a stereotype, to be a woman. And what the majority of troons does, is just that. Trying to become a walking stereotype. It's utterly disgusting and insulting to women at a fundamental level, and I'm surprised so many people don't see it.

Anyway, they went from being not a stereotype, to becoming it. Instead of, having a better diet and exercising if too fat. Or just teaching yourself some self-love and maybe going to a therapist if not feminine enough *Slow clapping*
I know it's hard to know them personally, but as an outsider. It's hard to feel empathetic towards them, when they're this helpless and the solution is so easy.

 

[Some Badger]

Thankfully I haven't had to deal with this within my immediate family, but I've had two good friends in a heterosexual relationship from college who have slowly been getting more trannypilled since early 2020. The guy is taking the lazy route and calling himself nonbinary with he/him pronouns but the girl cut her hair short and started calling herself by the name of one of her male OCs on Twitter this past fall. She was always kinda tomboyish but now she's a demiboy apparently, which I guess is a gateway to being an FtM.

They were already pretty lefty when I met them through my significant other, but now I gotta deal with all the unhinged political bullshit that comes with troonism too, to the point that the Discord server they co-moderate now has a quarantined politics section full of histrionic troon whinging news articles and Vaush memes. Every Instagram story is now ACAB this and Trans Rights Are Human Rights that, and I'm just... so, so, fucking tired. I think if my sister or a cousin announced they were FtM, I'd never recover emotionally.

I really enjoyed hanging out with these people and playing doing Jackbox games and playing Starbound till like 3AM for an entire summer that one time. The more I find myself distancing from them due to not wanting to talk or engage in politics, the more it breaks my heart.

 

[Richter Blobmondo]

I was left because I wanted to help others. Their toxicity pushed me away and i realized i need to help myself first" or something to that effect

I'm sadly going to have to repeat the same talking point that alot of leftist say when people pull this card, but

"If you had to leave your political side over a few certain others, than you probably never really had / agreed with that belief system to begin with"

This can easily imply to the right aswell? Right? That's how stuff like Breadtube community became a thing

 

[Florence]

I've a few others who are much more SJW, chubby, dyed hair, lots of piercings, emo/punky dress sense. Even though they still wear feminine clothes, again no androgyny here. Yesterday one literally shared a fucking Ben Shapiro quote on their insta with, I shit you not, the caption "Another cis white male offended by someone else's gender XD" Get a fucking grip S. Stop drinking, doing drugs, getting pets you can't care for cause you're jobless and still living at home, and stop letting the pint sized Alt-right Israelite live rent free inside your head.

…Have we slept with the same chick?

 

[Kornula]

I used to hang around in a lot of 4chan-related spaces when I was a kid. Naturally, obviously, that meant that I inadvertently made friends with a couple of furries, weeaboos, all kinds of fairly innocuous weirdos. I've fallen out of contact with all of them- this would have been a decade ago -but there's this one dude who's stayed on my radar just because he's gotten weirder and weirder. He and his friend group seem to be about twelve deep, they respond to all of one another's tweets and shit like that. I just tallied it up the other day: out of the twelve whose Twitters I looked at, ten of them have come out as trans or non-binary in the period between '18 and today. Some of them used to be gay men, and now they identify as lesbian women.

There's lots of statistical anomalies like that. They're a tiny percentage of the population, ostensibly, but sometimes you see entire cliques of strange people troon out within close proximity of one another. Same thing happened to my ex. I found out they were getting into weirder and weirder porn, they got really interested in ContraPoints, made friends with a weird polyamorous FTM - and came out as trans. Man, that was a shitty day. They got worse and worse, radically reinventing their personality and falling deeper into weird bullshit. I don't want to go too deep into this, but within about six months, it was very obvious that things were over. This is a person I'd been with for almost two years, best relationship of my life till that happened.

Like I said, I could keep going on about this for a while, but the minute details aren't anyone's business and I don't want to relive them. Long story short, they started acting crazy, totally changed as a person. Gave up on all of their goals and ambitions except for the self-aggrandizing ones (becoming a beautiful woman, own fancy stuff, etc.) They popped the "we should open up the relationship a little," and at that point, I was only waiting on the lease to run out so I could just leave. That cracked it. They had a breakdown and begged me to stay, which successfully got me to stay put for a few more weeks, but I was checked out and I think they knew it. So, they were alternatively abusive and pitiful. I've had to deal with crazy people and their crazy shit in my life before, but it was nothing like that. I felt like I was walking on eggshells wearing soccer cleats.

Then finally it was over, and since they're a vindictive little cunt now, they ran around to all of their friends- our mutual friends -and their family saying I was abusive and a TERF. Those friends were like an umbrella on a drizzling day, I could take them or leave them. It sucks, but whatever. Their family was the primary reason I stayed where I was for those six months. I don't have a family of my own, and I loved those people. I made them Thanksgiving dinner every year, went to their Christmas, shit like that. At that point I was beyond my endurance to feel anything toward the situation, so I didn't even defend myself. I just dipped, took all the names I needed to out of my phone, and moved on.

To be clear, I am not a stupid man nor a particularly poor judge of character. The person I was with originally is not the same person I lived with for that half a year. It was like they got body-snatched while I wasn't looking. Honestly, it still confuses me how someone could blow up their life so rapidly, completely shift their values, their ambitions, their entire sexuality, and become a person I could no longer recognize. Kind of scares the fuck out of me, if I'm being real. Nowadays I think they're living in a polycule with two other troons, and all they talk about is coom shit on their Twitter between vagueposting threats of suicide.

Some of our old mutuals have reached out to me and said that they're just bizarre now. That's why I try to resist the urge to get all hateful or MATI in the Sideshows thread. In retrospect, my ex obviously lived a privileged life and wasn't prepared for the stress of the work they were doing. They had some kind of mental break and they got sucked into the tranny cult, started emulating the people they surrounded themselves with. They were vulnerable, unstable -- they're a victim, at the end of the day. Just, you know, so am I by extension.

Oh well! I'm just gonna keep killing it. Plenty of hot gay twinks in the sea.

It sounds like you managed to get out of that relationship without too much emotional, long lasting duress.

 

[Aaa0aaa0]

Oh well! I'm just gonna keep killing it. Plenty of hot gay twinks in the sea

This is the attitude I like to hear. May you get as much ass or just the one ass you need/want my man.

I swear, when someone comes out as "nonbinary" these days, it's a bigger red flag than MtF/FtM. There's no endgame in nonbinary and the rules are always being written and rewritten.

"I'm nonbinary" means "Hey, guess what! I've decided to make my mental stability everyone else's problem."

If you're a woman who likes to present in a feminine manner, you gotta examine why you feel weird when people refer to you as a woman. Occam's razor suggests the problem is not with the entire rest of the planet, and the solution to this eternal problem that started in the 2000s is not to change everyone else's use of language.

Crazy enough, all the enbies I've known are women who don't put their problems on others, and when they feel depressed only turn that energy inwards. Some of them are long term friends who are surprisingly chill aside from a few wokisms here and there. I feel grateful knowing them due to what I hear in this thread and others on drama. You're not exactly wrong though, its been taken by a lot more people than just the women and men who don't understand that gender isn't a feeling.


Side thoughts - The nonbinary women (for some reason its 90% women) I personally have met come in these flavors so far, usually overlapping:

Autism, ADHD, and other body mind disconnect disorders - seems to be the most common, the person doesn't "feel" gender like they presume the rest of us do.
Depression, anxiety, & self image disorders - women who hate their bodies but are trained to believe all women are goddesses in looks and abilities don't challenge the rhetoric, they look in at their bodies and say "Well my body is super gross and nothing I ever do is good enough, therefore I am not a woman". They think they're subhuman when really they're struggling with other issues and are good enough. Mental illness is a bitch and I feel them.
Sexual Assault Survivors - "if I make my body unwanted I'll be safe" mantra. Some of the most vulnerable of women putting themselves through this instead of having it processed elsewise.
"They/them" on twitter but nowhere else - people who think "gender don't matter lol I'll go by any pronouns bro!!!" They're soft hearted and don't always cause trouble, they're just there to try and support others and "queer their thtoughts".
Lemmings - people who are so nervous and self doubting about themselves they just follow their friends. "It can't hurt to be nonbinary if Jenny says they're nonbinary" - so they try the label on and focus hard on it to try and impress others as well as give themselves some sort of identity. Sometimes its mental health like bpd, sometimes it's teens looking for a rebelious but not too rebelious subculture, a modern day goth group.
Attention whores - this includes the "I'M NOT THOSE GIRLS AKA THOSE SLUTS" and the "I must be peak woke without trying" types, as well as the turbulent messes some personality disorders fall into. These guys are the worst and use it like a cudgel to gain status and asspats. More grifters anf power seekers gravitate to this since its so easy to claim.


As I said, there's overlap for each. Be good to yourselves and your enbies if they're sane and you like them. Ignore the rest.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I was wrong. My nephew still insists he's a girl whenever his maternal grandmother is around, which is nearly always. The new niece didn't make a difference, probably because she's still a baby and can't be turned into a perfect princess yet. Bro seems to have checked out on trying to push back because he doesn't want the drama.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

few certain others,

They think it's a few bad apples when really it's the entire system and people who support it.

 

[Finder]

A few days ago I got to talk with the one family member in America who trooned out. It’s always so bizarre, they have that weird voice all troons get and are always eager to give details about their transition.

I got to hear about dating app struggles, all stuff I really don’t care about. I guess they managed to get a few dates, but upon learning they’re a troon those people bailed (aka the moment they meet face to face).

They have this idea they’re completely supported by everyone back home as well, but it couldn’t be further from the truth.

I don’t hate this person, but I can’t relate at all anymore. I guess I don’t have to worry too much, this is the first time I’ve spoken to them in months.

My grandmother expressed she was afraid to even see this person. She doesn’t understand the whole thing and she’s worried about how she’ll react as she’s never seen them post-troon out. I can honestly imagine her just crying upon seeing them, it’s so, so much worse than she imagines.

Thankfully I don’t think she has to worry, I’d be surprised if this person came back and visited the motherland before she died.