May '68 & other aspects of the paradigm shift in the postmodern west

[DJ Grelle]

Mainly to not shit up other threads; here is a thread to talk about your personal theories about why the west shifted so much between the heights of cold war era anti-communism and modern politics.

Post Cold War. Wessies were based. It was after the wall fell that they turned into gigantic pussies.

Once the country united all the politicians got together to piss on the US, and not Russia, for some reason.

You guys are lucky Poland is there. They are the only thing stopping Vlad from semi-consensually ravaging your assholes. Like, Putin could just decide not to deliver energy one day and you'd be on your knees.

Meanwhile the US is a lucrative export market that stores some tanks and has a couple hospitals there. No leverage but throwing money at it. Yet we're the bad guys. It's a strange dynamic.

It's a dynamic that resulted from getting forced into participating in two utterly pointless two decade long wars barely a decade after the iron curtain fell.
But none of this has anything to do with Kyle, so there's that.

Afghanistan, from the reason of going there down to how everything was handled until the troops got recalled this year, was a shitshow and you know it.
As for keeping the soviets out, if you think the US did this out of the selfless kindness of their heart, you know nothing of containment politics of the cold war era. If you don't understand that NATO was and still is one of the US' main tools of political influence and strategic power, if you think NATO is somehow the US just handing out free stuff to the rest of the world, you know nothing about realpolitik of the cold war era.


Yeah, cause Germany was fed up with that kind of shit after Afghanistan, especially given the flimsy excuse of going into Iraq in the first place. We still got roped into participating later on, but at least our worthless government for once listened to the people who told them no, so they didn't get in there day one.


The US tailor made the Bundeswehr to the need of being a speed bump to the Soviets (the very name suggests that the Bundeswehr is only meant to defend the BRD). Going abroad to fight an active war of aggression was never the scope of the Bundeswehr. That's why going to Afghanistan and Iraq was such a hot topic in Germany.
You can't really blame Germany for following the scope and purpose of their military doctrine when the US is what shaped it. You're just salty it backfired on you like it did in Japan

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Has nothing to do with Kyle except that it could be Bingers kind of humor. Its disturbing shit and downright disgusting. Basically what I told you. We are at dehumanization. My tax money payed for that btw.

That's something I've been curious about. After the wall fell and the DDR reunited with the west, was there a flood of commie/socialist propaganda westward? It must have been bizarre suddenly having a population conditioned by quasi-Stalinist policies for half a century injected into the West German system.

Imho an essential part in understanding current german politics is the understanding that it has always been the poorest (relative GDP/capita) of the western european nations (France, UK, Belgium, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Switzerland). Additionally it's position as a more central european nation also had an influence on the view western europe had of Germany, while the Germans saw themselves as a part of the west and really wanted to stand on an equal cultural and affluent footing with the rest. That's why they are so obsessed with being the "best of the class" in regards to neo-liberalism. Although this is a very Tooze-inspired view. I'm sure you could argue otherwise and bring counterarguments.

 

[Coolio55]

There's also all those lame hippie movements pushed by the secret services.

 

[BlueSnowman]

You have some good ideas here, but a lot of what we have now came out of the student movement in the 60s. At first Germany just wanted to be a Western country and actually aspired to be quite libertarian. It all started to go downhill with the Frankfurt School in the 60s. Germany had quite an intellectual tradition, but that died with the First World War and the nazis basically killed it outright- room for the left to get in. Adorno, but more so Marcuse and Horkheimer riled up young students, especially women, and made them protest in the streets for communism and to make the crimes of their parents visisble (Germany had a similar policy to Japan before and the Gdr actually maintained it to the end, which is why the East is far right today). The carrot to get this particular stick through was sexual liberty. German society was quite stuck up. After that Germany began to basically flagellate itself, but it escalated in the second half of the 2010s. We always copy American trends and many affluent kids were schooled in America. They returned and are now part of our institutions. The problem here is that our institutions were libertarian first and thus advanced talent. They worked too well for our current good and Westgermans developed a deep trust of institutions, titles and authority. The leftist exploit that shamelessly now.
The East is a stark contrast. Ther Gdr was always patreiotic if not downright racist. The people in the East still have pride and coinfidence. Due to the commies beign bad liars they developed a sense of distrust towards authorities in general.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Even if Kyle is found not guilty (and I think he will be), it isn't a victory; the fact he was tried at all given the mountain of evidence he was in the right is a miscarriage of justice itself. What now? The undermining of America will continue, with the ChiComs using gullible niggers as their cat's paw, our politicians as their proxies and the media to spread their coof lies and fear mongering.

Tonight Tucker reminded me Kenosha was already on the ropes before the riots destroyed its downtown, a city that had helped make America the greatest country in the world but was sold out by venal politicians going way back when our manufacturing was sent to China. It is highly unlikely Kenosha will recover and it will soon become a shit hole like Detroit MI or Gary, IN, with a barely functioning city government, full of desperate people on welfare victimizing each other as they tear up homes for scrap. That's a feature, not a bug, of the Democratic playbook.

Don't forget this is a skirmish in a larger war.

They hate the Republicans in Germany, what the fuck?

They take the time to hate on a political party in another country that at minimum supports the welfare program known as NATO that somewhat defends Germany for now.

I would not lose any sleep if the Soviets managed to rape all of Germany for how uber cucked they turned out to be.

Nazi guilt and the ambitions of a loan shark looking to take over the world are awful things. And they're being weaponized.

 

[BlueSnowman]

Many of the leftist from university also went into the school system. They started to indoctrinate kids with their antiwhite narrative. Everything foreign is good, Germany is bland and except when it comes to blame for the Holocaust there is no such thing as Germany because we had some minor migrations, Turks are of course a thing though, despite beign a mix of a dozen ethnicities.
This education bred three types of people:
1. Norf FC (Nord FC)
The German school system is tiered. The two lower tiers produce a very down to earth person that is firmly patriotic on a local level, but doesn care about anything beyxond their football, beer and paycheck. They are 1984s proles, when you come down to it.
2. Mister Career:
Norf Fcs educated brother. They are pragmatic and greedy, quite hedonistic too. They pay lipservice to the third group, but just want to consoom and spend their copious amounts of cash somewhere fancy.
3. The Leftist:
Indoctrinated by the schoolsystem they view themselves as a citizen of the world and loaded with guilt for their ancestors crimes. Usualbookish, not good looking, but somewhat intelligent or at least midwitted. They support the left and hate everything about Germany. To cope with their hateful worldview they steep themselves in a thick layer of irony and smugness. They are very dogmatic...just think about the smuggies memes.

 

[lurkin]

There's also all those lame hippie movements pushed by the secret services.

Not even a meme, anti-war movement co opted and ran into the ground. Glowies always bank on reactionaries.

 

[Beautiful Border]

That's something I've been curious about. After the wall fell and the DDR reunited with the west, was there a flood of commie/socialist propaganda westward? It must have been bizarre suddenly having a population conditioned by quasi-Stalinist policies for half a century injected into the West German system.

East Germany wasn't like North Korea, culturally speaking it never diverged that far from its capitalist counterpart and it was never really Stalinist in the same way, say, Romania or Albania were. It wasn't some closed-off hermit kingdom, it was similar to West Germany only poorer.

Also, a policy of a cultural rejection of Germanness, the idea that traditional German culture was tainted by its connection with Nazism and that all Germans were collectively guilty for the Holocaust, etc. were ideas that firmly originated in the West, not the East. The East was a more authentically German state in some ways. If there's one thing responsible for the modern west's obsession with "social justice" it isn't East Germany.

If you want to find the real origin for some of the more poisonous ideas in modern American discourse, you have to look towards America itself. For example, the idea that the white working class are some kind of privileged oppressor class that has to be overthrown by black and indigenous people was popularised by "J. Sakai" in his book Settlers. But who the hell is J. Sakai? That in itself is a bit of a rabbit hole.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Nice work. I was biting my tongue in the other thread with the anthill that had been kicked over.

@RomanesEuntDomus The Wessies were jumping all over US cock 1945-1989. Don't act like it was the US taking advantage of them. Everybody knew what would happen if those US troops weren't there and were happy to host them. A mutual benefit. Also, don't think I'm some low IQ mass-media fed retard that doesn't know that the reason Afghanistan became a "nation building" exercise was because it became an international cause celebre to "fix" it with NATO. Not the US alone. NATO specifically. The Europeans would handle it. The boorish Americans would just cut and run (which we should have done, fuck their shit up and go home). Nonono. That isn't cricket. We must give leadership of the humanitarian project to the NATO partners in the quiet districts so that development will flourish. And they did... take leadership. That's how it all went down. Germans had two generals running ISAF years before the US had anyone in the job. We only got the gig when nation building proved a failure and y'all bailed.

Coulda just went in HULK SMASH then left their shit a smoking ruin and gone home to drink beer and fuck the prom queen. But noooooooo we had to give a fuck what the pissbaby euros think. So we did it their way. The "nice" way. And now you fuckers are acting like it was our idea and we led that shit. We led the smashy-smashy part, sure. You fucks ran the "hearts and minds" campaign. How many of your deployed people were combat troops? How many were training staff and security? Be honest.

Fucking Norway sent combat guys. They even got in trouble for writing viking shit about Ragnarok on their IFVs. Who'd you send when your guy was the fucking General leading the mission? Police trainers, admin, and security guards. Pogues.

@NevskyProspekt A good study would be the long Chancellorship of Helmut Kohl. In the beginning he was a hardcore Reaganite. By the end he was kicking the US out the door. I think that is the missing connection. We expect liberated commies to act like our commies. Not so. They were under authoritarians. Their card-carrying members are the conservatives not the molotov-throwing radicals. They joined the CDP. And ruined it.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Don't act like it was the US taking advantage of them.

Never said they did. Enjoy this conversation with yourself.

 

[Dom Cruise]

People were scared of nuclear war and felt like radical change in the form of peace and love had to happen to prevent it, the peace sign was originally specifically an anti-nuke statement.

As much as we like to bemoan hippies radically changing America, it's entirely possible that had the US stayed in that uncompromising '50s mindset we would have ultimately had WW3 and I don't know about you, but for all the faults of the present day at least it's not irradiated wasteland.

 

[Beautiful Border]

Nice work. I was biting my tongue in the other thread with the anthill that had been kicked over.

@RomanesEuntDomus The Wessies were jumping all over US cock 1945-1989. Don't act like it was the US taking advantage of them. Everybody knew what would happen if those US troops weren't there and were happy to host them. A mutual benefit. Also, don't think I'm some low IQ mass-media fed exceptional individual that doesn't know that the reason Afghanistan became a "nation building" exercise was because it became an international cause celebre to "fix" it with NATO. Not the US alone. NATO specifically. The Europeans would handle it. The boorish Americans would just cut and run (which we should have done, fuck their shit up and go home). Nonono. That isn't cricket. We must give leadership of the humanitarian project to the NATO partners in the quiet districts so that development will flourish. And they did... take leadership. That's how it all went down. Germans had two generals running ISAF years before the US had anyone in the job. We only got the gig when nation building proved a failure and y'all bailed.

Coulda just went in HULK SMASH then left their shit a smoking ruin and gone home to drink beer and fuck the prom queen. But noooooooo we had to give a fuck what the pissbaby euros think. So we did it their way. The "nice" way. And now you fuckers are acting like it was our idea and we led that shit. We led the smashy-smashy part, sure. You fucks ran the "hearts and minds" campaign. How many of your deployed people were combat troops? How many were training staff and security? Be honest.

Fucking Norway sent combat guys. They even got in trouble for writing viking shit about Ragnarok on their IFVs. Who'd you send when your guy was the fucking General leading the mission? Police trainers, admin, and security guards. Pogues.

@NevskyProspekt A good study would be the long Chancellorship of Helmut Kohl. In the beginning he was a hardcore Reaganite. By the end he was kicking the US out the door. I think that is the missing connection. We expect liberated commies to act like our commies. Not so. They were under authoritarians. Their card-carrying members are the conservatives not the molotov-throwing radicals. They joined the CDP. And ruined it.

We didn't want to spend twenty years and billions of dollars fighting a pointless war and eventually losing, it was the meanie euros who bullied us into staying

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Never said they did. Enjoy this conversation with yourself.

Don't play dumb. It doesn't suit you.

As for keeping the soviets out, if you think the US did this out of the selfless kindness of their heart, you know nothing of containment politics of the cold war era. If you don't understand that NATO was and still is one of the US' main tools of political influence and strategic power, if you think NATO is somehow the US just handing out free stuff to the rest of the world, you know nothing about realpolitik of the cold war era.

You sperged pretty hard back there. I resperged you. It's the way this internet open-forum thing goes. Don't act like what you said didn't happen and I'm the only one being weird.

 

[BlueSnowman]

East Germany wasn't like North Korea, culturally speaking it never diverged that far from its capitalist counterpart and it was never really Stalinist in the same way, say, Romania or Albania were. It wasn't some closed-off hermit kingdom, it was similar to West Germany only poorer.

Also, a policy of a cultural rejection of Germanness, the idea that traditional German culture was tainted by its connection with Nazism and that all Germans were collectively guilty for the Holocaust, etc. were ideas that firmly originated in the West, not the East. The East was a more authentically German state in some ways. If there's one thing responsible for the modern west's obsession with "social justice" it isn't East Germany.

If you want to find the real origin for some of the more poisonous ideas in modern American discourse, you have to look towards America itself. For example, the idea that the white working class are some kind of privileged oppressor class that has to be overthrown by black and indigenous people was popularised by "J. Sakai" in his book Settlers. But who the hell is J. Sakai? That in itself is a bit of a rabbit hole.

But the origin of that type of discourse is critical theory and the Frankfurt School. The French intellectuals around Sartre, too. Gramsci is outright cited by these people. We lacked people like Kendi, coloured racists, to formulate the more outlandish theories but most of the shit we are dealing with right now originates in Germany. The rejection of everything German is also fairly new or at least wasn,t so severe until the late 2010s.

 

[JamusActimus]

Mai 68 was just an excuse to rape kids

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Well guys as I see it right after the Cold War ended US business interests decided to manufacture outside the US since there was no reason to worry about commies demanding workers get a fair wage and such, among other things. First it was Mexico then China said "we can do it cheaper". Not better but that's irrelevant to corporations. That was around the time Bill Clinton become President if I recall correctly and soon afterward China began stealthily taking over our schools, institutions and government. They leveraged the leftists and took over. Look at BAAM (By Any Means Necessary) and BLM, they're all Maoists, not Marxist-Leninists, ie Russians. The shift was pushed and shaped by commies, but not European ones.

Yes, this is a conflict, but its with the ChiComs. They are behind the funding of these groups all over the world. Soros, for all of his faults, is just a scumbag opportunist that threw in with the Chinese Commies because they make money for him.

It's a Faustian bargain though, as I believe the pendulum will swing back, hard, in the extreme opposite direction. Taiwan is prepared for a ChiCom invasion. Japan is rearming (possibly even getting its own nukes). Most Asian countries hate China, and by extension the Chinese. We'll get drawn in regardless of our wishes.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

We didn't want to spend twenty years and billions of dollars fighting a pointless war and eventually losing, it was the meanie euros who bullied us into staying

More like we massively overvalued the NATO commitment towards nation building and the concept of it as a whole. The strategic plan was flawed and the reason we chose it was because of the NATO commitment. The need to be seen as being part of an international effort.

Shoulda just went "you blow up our shit, we blow up yours".

And if you argue "acthually the US blew up stuff too before and they were justified in doing retaliations and blah blah blah" you are part of the problem. Those same assholes were the ones that stopped the US from sending a strong message via Arc Light and letting it rest. It HAD to be this big compassionate thing to right wrongs and mend fences and become a military-led social services case management deal. Guess who those assholes were at the time? It wasn't the US. 'Muricans just wanted shit blown up good and fuck 'em.

 

[DumbDude42]

Well guys as I see it right after the Cold War ended US business interests decided to manufacture outside the US since there was no reason to worry about commies demanding workers get a fair wage and such, among other things. First it was Mexico then China said "we can do it cheaper". Not better but that's irrelevant to corporations. That was around the time Bill Clinton become President if I recall correctly and soon afterward China began stealthily taking over our schools, institutions and government. They leveraged the leftists and took over. Look at BAAM (By Any Means Necessary) and BLM, they're all Maoists, not Marxist-Leninists, ie Russians. The shift was pushed and shaped by commies, but not European ones.

Yes, this is a conflict, but its with the ChiComs. They are behind the funding of these groups all over the world. Soros, for all of his faults, is just a scumbag opportunist that threw in with the Chinese Commies because they make money for him.

It's a Faustian bargain though, as I believe the pendulum will swing back, hard, in the extreme opposite direction. Taiwan is prepared for a ChiCom invasion. Japan is rearming (possibly even getting its own nukes). Most Asian countries hate China, and by extension the Chinese. We'll get drawn in regardless of our wishes.

the chinese in the 60s and 70s were way too busy with internal issues to engage in sophisticated international subversive operations like that. western marxist clowns reading maos book and trying to emulate his ideas is a real thing yes, but it's not something that is pushed or coordinated by china itself.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Well guys as I see it right after the Cold War ended US business interests decided to manufacture outside the US since there was no reason to worry about commies demanding workers get a fair wage and such, among other things. First it was Mexico then China said "we can do it cheaper". Not better but that's irrelevant to corporations. That was around the time Bill Clinton become President if I recall correctly and soon afterward China began stealthily taking over our schools, institutions and government. They leveraged the leftists and took over. Look at BAAM (By Any Means Necessary) and BLM, they're all Maoists, not Marxist-Leninists, ie Russians. The shift was pushed and shaped by commies, but not European ones.

Yes, this is a conflict, but its with the ChiComs. They are behind the funding of these groups all over the world. Soros, for all of his faults, is just a scumbag opportunist that threw in with the Chinese Commies because they make money for him.

It's a Faustian bargain though, as I believe the pendulum will swing back, hard, in the extreme opposite direction. Taiwan is prepared for a ChiCom invasion. Japan is rearming (possibly even getting its own nukes). Most Asian countries hate China, and by extension the Chinese. We'll get drawn in regardless of our wishes.

Japan did it first. It started in the 1960's.

Asian tigers in the 80's.

Anyone else remember when ROK was a dictatorial shithole not worth a fuck? Now they make high-end consumer electronics and cars and shit.

The Chinese are just copying the script of much smarter people that came before them. That isn't about the Cold War or even the US (at least in that way). It's about the rest of the world advancing while the US is mired in it's own faults and unable to get out of it's own way.

This thread spawned out of the Rittenhouse one, right? So you are familiar with how expensive and fucked things get in the US when shit gets political, yeah? Well imagine you are a business with deep pockets and you want to exist and do business stuff. Guess what? Suddenly a bunch of people found a reason to make whatever it is you are doing political. Everything is a bajillion times more expensive now and timetables are fucked forever.

It's a miracle any business exists in this country at all, tbh. I have no goddamn idea how guys like Bezos made it. A shot at an unguarded net, I suppose. But the parasites will follow. It just takes some catching up but they will get there. We are already seeing the seeds planted by the parasite groups looking to mooch.

US manufacturing died the minute other countries figured out simplifying regulations and laws and throwing out frivolous legal BS is how you beat us. Handily. It lets them maximize staff towards production and limits their liabilities. Meanwhile, what are we doing? Hiring lawyers to fight over the pronouns of the WOC who arranges for the third party service to pick up the category 4 recyclables sorted into the blue dumpster at loading bay three. That could be a used bay for production, y'know. We just have to get all those people out of our way.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

the chinese in the 60s and 70s were way too busy with internal issues to engage in sophisticated international subversive operations like that. western marxist clowns reading maos book and trying to emulate his ideas is a real thing yes, but it's not something that is pushed or coordinated by china itself.

Nixon opened the door in the 70s. Maoists were and are a thing on the West Coast of California. The sixties never really died there and commies were hardly dormant in the 80s; it seemed there was a protest every weekend by commie spergs, and that was during Reagan's presidency. Cities declared themselves sanctuaries for illegals and they declared themselves in solidarity with Nicaragua or some other bullshit south of the border country and got arrested for Maoist commie insurgents in Latin America. I mean, they didn't learn Mao's words all by their lonesome selves, American and Euro commies brought it to them. Once Bill Clinton came along they didn't bother to hide it and they haven't stopped since.

Look up Lori Berenson, she's representative of the American Left.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Japan did it first. It started in the 1960's.

Asian tigers in the 80's.

Anyone else remember when ROK was a dictatorial shithole not worth a fuck? Now they make high-end consumer electronics and cars and shit.

The Chinese are just copying the script of much smarter people that came before them. That isn't about the Cold War or even the US (at least in that way). It's about the rest of the world advancing while the US is mired in it's own faults and unable to get out of it's own way.

This thread spawned out of the Rittenhouse one, right? So you are familiar with how expensive and fucked things get in the US when shit gets political, yeah? Well imagine you are a business with deep pockets and you want to exist and do business stuff. Guess what? Suddenly a bunch of people found a reason to make whatever it is you are doing political. Everything is a bajillion times more expensive now and timetables are fucked forever.

It's a miracle any business exists in this country at all, tbh. I have no goddamn idea how guys like Bezos made it. A shot at an unguarded net, I suppose. But the parasites will follow. It just takes some catching up but they will get there. We are already seeing the seeds planted by the parasite groups looking to mooch.

The japs aren't Communists by a long shot and unlike cheap chink shit, I own vintage sixties Japanese goods that were well made and still working to this day. You are right, the Chinese are copying the more successful Asian countries that came before them, what I'm saying is they're using communism, their particular brand of it, to ensure a monopoly in other countries, particularly the US, and to also weaken and decimate it.