May '68 & other aspects of the paradigm shift in the postmodern west

[Coleslaw]

Maoists were and are a thing on the West Coast of California.

Which is why Reagan and Nixon got elected?

 

[ColtWalker1847]

The japs aren't Communists by a long shot and unlike cheap chink shit, I own vintage sixties Japanese goods that were well made and still working to this day. You are right, the Chinese are copying the more successful Asian countries that came before them, what I'm saying is they're using communism, their particular brand of it, to ensure a monopoly in other countries, particularly the US, and to also weaken and decimate it.

The Chi-coms maniacal influence is political. Activist groups and the like. Influence and trouble for your enemies is easily bought here. Look at the tards who raise hell on this place with their disability checks and spouting insane bullshit on twitter. The Reds have it easy when it comes to fucking with the US.

What I'm getting at is their manufacturing sector, while it may benefit from it, isn't the root cause. You are just recycling boomer memes from the 80's with Tojo swapped for Chairman Mao. That problem is ours and it existed while they were still really really communist. Like, Cultural Revolution Communist. Mao was forward thinking but he wasn't that forward thinking. It wasn't his plan at all to have it work out this way.

Also, lol. Back to the Future is accurate. Japanese stuff was regarded as junk until the 80's. I love my old Japanese motorcycles but they are crude af. So much so that I can get Chinese knockoff parts on Amazon for cheap and they are as good as OEM. Sometimes they are even still Japanese made. I about shit myself when the $10 carb I bought for my Honda E22 engine had "Japan" cast into the side of it. No fucking way they could make that in the US for $10. Fuck, you couldn't sell US-made rebuild kits for that and they ship those in envelopes with a goddamn stamp for postage.

 

[MysticLord]

I'm not at all a deep thinker on this subject, but from what I've read others post about it the USA has been a sort of Trotskyist managerial state since the 50s. The Stalinists were Orwellian, while Trotskyists lean more towards Huxley. It makes sense to me, especially given how the best Trotskyite innovation to Communism was to lie your ass off and pretend to be Conservative. That's how we got Neocons here in the USA.

The Trotskyite MO is to pursue things that let them implement aspects of Communism without actually calling it Communism. Things like centralization/federalization, bureaucratiziation or management by process, granting useless eaters minor noblity status as "victim groups" and ensuring that they are dependent on you for status, outsourcing, radical feminism*, and especially immigration. Generally things that divide society, which makes it easier for a small, cohesive group to capture the wealth of the same.

It's amazing what you can do in politics if you simply lie, or don't tell the whole truth. If we had people on our side as canny as they are, we would win.

The French riots of 1968 - which again, I don't know much about - seem like a color revolution to me. I read that at the time the French political elites were trying to pull away from the Anglo-American sphere of influence while also avoiding the Communists, so it stands to reason that they'd get color revolutioned for not going along with the plan.

I forgot to add but FDR was literally a Communist, his administration was peppered with Stalinist moles, he created the administrative state in the USA, and he arguably baited Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor so he could get a war against Germany. The plan was to hand Europe over to Stalin, then the USA.

* I'm not opposed to feminism because I understand that women as a collective have collective interests. I just think their interests (and those of men, and every other group) only matter when they contribute to a harmonious society. Public floggings of drunkard husbands is fine, running around with your pussy hanging out in public is not.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Japan did it first. It started in the 1960's.

Asian tigers in the 80's.

Anyone else remember when ROK was a dictatorial shithole not worth a fuck? Now they make high-end consumer electronics and cars and shit.

The Chinese are just copying the script of much smarter people that came before them. That isn't about the Cold War or even the US (at least in that way). It's about the rest of the world advancing while the US is mired in it's own faults and unable to get out of it's own way.

This thread spawned out of the Rittenhouse one, right? So you are familiar with how expensive and fucked things get in the US when shit gets political, yeah? Well imagine you are a business with deep pockets and you want to exist and do business stuff. Guess what? Suddenly a bunch of people found a reason to make whatever it is you are doing political. Everything is a bajillion times more expensive now and timetables are fucked forever.

It's a miracle any business exists in this country at all, tbh. I have no goddamn idea how guys like Bezos made it. A shot at an unguarded net, I suppose. But the parasites will follow. It just takes some catching up but they will get there. We are already seeing the seeds planted by the parasite groups looking to mooch.

US manufacturing died the minute other countries figured out simplifying regulations and laws and throwing out frivolous legal BS is how you beat us. Handily. It lets them maximize staff towards production and limits their liabilities. Meanwhile, what are we doing? Hiring lawyers to fight over the pronouns of the WOC who arranges for the third party service to pick up the category 4 recyclables sorted into the blue dumpster at loading bay three. That could be a used bay for production, y'know. We just have to get all those people out of our way.

And then...the outsourcing begins.

 

[celebrityskin]

Which is why Reagan and Nixon got elected?

Assuming they're talking about SF and Oakland, they were the few places in CA to vote blue in 1980.

 

[Dom Cruise]

the chinese in the 60s and 70s were way too busy with internal issues to engage in sophisticated international subversive operations like that. western marxist clowns reading maos book and trying to emulate his ideas is a real thing yes, but it's not something that is pushed or coordinated by china itself.

And yet since 2008 we've seen a bunch of commie stuff pop up, while China has grown a lot as an international influence, coincidence?

Japan did it first. It started in the 1960's.

Asian tigers in the 80's.

Anyone else remember when ROK was a dictatorial shithole not worth a fuck? Now they make high-end consumer electronics and cars and shit.

The Chinese are just copying the script of much smarter people that came before them. That isn't about the Cold War or even the US (at least in that way). It's about the rest of the world advancing while the US is mired in it's own faults and unable to get out of it's own way.

This thread spawned out of the Rittenhouse one, right? So you are familiar with how expensive and fucked things get in the US when shit gets political, yeah? Well imagine you are a business with deep pockets and you want to exist and do business stuff. Guess what? Suddenly a bunch of people found a reason to make whatever it is you are doing political. Everything is a bajillion times more expensive now and timetables are fucked forever.

It's a miracle any business exists in this country at all, tbh. I have no goddamn idea how guys like Bezos made it. A shot at an unguarded net, I suppose. But the parasites will follow. It just takes some catching up but they will get there. We are already seeing the seeds planted by the parasite groups looking to mooch.

US manufacturing died the minute other countries figured out simplifying regulations and laws and throwing out frivolous legal BS is how you beat us. Handily. It lets them maximize staff towards production and limits their liabilities. Meanwhile, what are we doing? Hiring lawyers to fight over the pronouns of the WOC who arranges for the third party service to pick up the category 4 recyclables sorted into the blue dumpster at loading bay three. That could be a used bay for production, y'know. We just have to get all those people out of our way.

ROK?

The plan was to hand Europe over to Stalin, then the USA.

When would that have happened and what prevented it?

 

[ColtWalker1847]

ROK?

Republic of Korea. Specifically how their economy took off in the 80's after Park Chung-hee died.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

The Chi-coms maniacal influence is political. Activist groups and the like. Influence and trouble for your enemies is easily bought here. Look at the tards who raise hell on this place with their disability checks and spouting insane bullshit on twitter. The Reds have it easy when it comes to fucking with the US.

What I'm getting at is their manufacturing sector, while it may benefit from it, isn't the root cause. You are just recycling boomer memes from the 80's with Tojo swapped for Chairman Mao. That problem is ours and it existed while they were still really really communist. Like, Cultural Revolution Communist. Mao was forward thinking but he wasn't that forward thinking. It wasn't his plan at all to have it work out this way.

Also, lol. Back to the Future is accurate. Japanese stuff was regarded as junk until the 80's. I love my old Japanese motorcycles but they are crude af. So much so that I can get Chinese knockoff parts on Amazon for cheap and they are as good as OEM. Sometimes they are even still Japanese made. I about shit myself when the $10 carb I bought for my Honda E22 engine had "Japan" cast into the side of it. No fucking way they could make that in the US for $10. Fuck, you couldn't sell US-made rebuild kits for that and they ship those in envelopes with a goddamn stamp for postage.

Boomer memes from the 80s, really? My dad was an absolute commie true believer and he loved Nixon for opening the door to China. I'm not dissing on China the way some folks bashed and burned Toyotas in the 80s, I'm talking about the deliberate move to undercut and then move the entire manufacturing sector out of the USA. First it was NAFTA and when the changeover to Mexico was in progress the chinks came along and undercut them and now we have a situation where things are just not made in the US anymore. I got tired of buying cheap chink fans that were shit and couldn't be fixed when I learned the last manufacturer of fans in the US, Lakewood, closed shop in 2018 because of cheap chinese fans. Look at what happened with ventilators last summer, Trump had to invoke the Defense Act to force GM and others to produce them, because we don't make things anymore, it has moved to China.

China has been rather ingenious about it, they destroyed out manufacturing while also destroying out faith and trust in government by having their shills foment unrest and violence all over the US in the name of BLM and anti-white supremacy. There is confirmed proof and evidence our President is compromised by China, through his son. Feinstein had a Chinese spy in her office. Swalwell was literally fucking a chink spy.

ChiComs aren't really true commies. they are literally the textbook definition of fascism but they will use communism, particularly Maoist communism, to destroy us.

Assuming they're talking about SF and Oakland, they were the few places in CA to vote blue in 1980.

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If you look at the traitorous scum in Congress , eg Feinstein, Pelosi, Swalwell, the ones calling the shots come from the Bay Area. Bankrolled by the Getty family, rolling in the riches from their investments in China.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

I'm not dissing on China the way some folks bashed and burned Toyotas in the 80s, I'm talking about the deliberate move to undercut and then move the entire manufacturing sector out of the USA. First it was NAFTA and when the changeover to Mexico was in progress the chinks came along and undercut them and now we have a situation where things are just not made in the US anymore. I got tired of buying cheap chink fans that were shit and couldn't be fixed when I learned the last manufacturer of fans in the US, Lakewood, closed shop in 2018 because of cheap chinese fans. Look at what happened with ventilators last summer, Trump had to invoke the Defense Act to force GM and others to produce them, because we don't make things anymore, it has moved to China.

And I'm saying the movement of manufacturing away from the US well predates NAFTA (why is that in your China argument anyways?) to a time when China was a fucking mess. If it wasn't China we would buy our shit from somewhere else. They didn't take away American jobs, those got shipped to Japan and the Asian tigers years before.

The root problem isn't them, whoever they are, it's us. It isn't economically viable to mass manufacture durable consumer goods in the US anymore. That kind of manufacturing has thin profit margins and relies on volume to make a profit. But we got this crazy fucking overhead.

Industrial and specialized stuff like military gear live in a "Made in the USA" tariffed and protected system. Have you seen the pricetags on that? Average Joe would shit bricks if he had to pay premium prices like that. Flat out couldn't afford it. Shit would be twice the price if we were lucky. Is he gonna be able to pull that off on a menial factory workers wage? Unlikely.

China's political machinations are worrying but also a completely separate problem. If we shut down imports from them tomorrow it just means we import more shit from Japan, Worst Korea, Malaysia, etc. It doesn't solve the problem of why our manufacturing companies went bankrupt and why any attempts to start new ones would also fail. It fixes nothing economically. We have to address the underlying issues.

 

[DJ Grelle]

You have some good ideas here, but a lot of what we have now came out of the student movement in the 60s. At first Germany just wanted to be a Western country and actually aspired to be quite libertarian. It all started to go downhill with the Frankfurt School in the 60s. Germany had quite an intellectual tradition, but that died with the First World War and the nazis basically killed it outright- room for the left to get in. Adorno, but more so Marcuse and Horkheimer riled up young students, especially women, and made them protest in the streets for communism and to make the crimes of their parents visisble (Germany had a similar policy to Japan before and the Gdr actually maintained it to the end, which is why the East is far right today). The carrot to get this particular stick through was sexual liberty. German society was quite stuck up. After that Germany began to basically flagellate itself, but it escalated in the second half of the 2010s. We always copy American trends and many affluent kids were schooled in America. They returned and are now part of our institutions. The problem here is that our institutions were libertarian first and thus advanced talent. They worked too well for our current good and Westgermans developed a deep trust of institutions, titles and authority. The leftist exploit that shamelessly now.
The East is a stark contrast. Ther Gdr was always patreiotic if not downright racist. The people in the East still have pride and coinfidence. Due to the commies beign bad liars they developed a sense of distrust towards authorities in general.

Agree, and things like the historikerstreit would be absolutely unthinkable today. Nolte would be arrested as a nazi today.

The Wessies were jumping all over US cock 1945-1989. Don't act like it was the US taking advantage of them.

Hard disagree. US involvement in WW2 was an attempt from the beginning to establish itself as the world power. And they quite effectively did it post war. Economically via the marshall plan, GATT, bretton woods and the IMF. Culturally via the UN and UNESCO (which is actually the source of modern cosmopolitan "world citizen" globalist thought, itself an outgrowth of WASP ascendance through the british and american empires.) and militarily via NATO and the japs and koreans. Oh yes, the puppet leaders the US installed were all jumping on US cock, what a surprise! It's not like you had a campaign of denazification, total destruction of civilian infrastructure and plunder of technology, before installing handpicked leaders, subverting the local media with the CIA, and essentially economically vassalizing the western germans through the marshallplan and GATT.

Coulda just went in HULK SMASH then left their shit a smoking ruin and gone home to drink beer and fuck the prom queen. But noooooooo we had to give a fuck what the pissbaby euros think. So we did it their way. The "nice" way. And now you fuckers are acting like it was our idea and we led that shit. We led the smashy-smashy part, sure. You fucks ran the "hearts and minds" campaign. How many of your deployed people were combat troops? How many were training staff and security? Be honest.

The "nice" way has always been the US way. European style would be a short punitive campaign or actual establishment of european controlled government. Its typically Anglo to attempt the entire "hearts and minds". The boots on the ground might have been european in that part of the operation, but the idea was anglo-american. And that was because NATO forced europe to cooperate in the american-russian pissing contest that was the nth phase of the great game.

RE: economics&outsourcing.
The US is and still remains the heart of the world economy. China's aborted attempts at rivaling the petrodollar with their petroyuan are fundamentally unsound and do not have the same, deep root the US Dollar has (GATT, IMF, Bretton Woods,...). America has no mass consumer manufacturing anymore but that was a trade-off that was made to keep its position as unchallenged ruler of the world economy. The current system is still far more prosperous for america as a whole than if it was in an interbellum situation. So what if a few rednecks and homeless are poor and have trouble tying the ends together? The rest of the US is materially incredibly comfortable and enjoys an unseen standard of living.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

America is getting more and more like a circus or freakshow.

Hopefully those of us who are sick of it can stay out of the loop one way or another.

 

[Ser Prize]

People were scared of nuclear war and felt like radical change in the form of peace and love had to happen to prevent it, the peace sign was originally specifically an anti-nuke statement.

As much as we like to bemoan hippies radically changing America, it's entirely possible that had the US stayed in that uncompromising '50s mindset we would have ultimately had WW3 and I don't know about you, but for all the faults of the present day at least it's not irradiated wasteland.

They've poisoned your mind, Dom.

 

[Dom Cruise]

They've poisoned your mind, Dom.

All I'm saying is it makes it more understandable why what happened, happened.

Imagine you lived in the post Cuban Missile Crisis 1960s, would you not be sympathetic to a movement all about peace and love at a time when war could mean nuclear war?

Not to mention the Vietnam war, which no matter your politics was a travesty, history repeated itself with the Iraq war, which is a big reason why the left has gained the foothold they have today, maybe the US should stop starting disastrous wars?

Maybe I'm wrong and if America had stayed conservative, it wouldn't have led to WW3, but again, at the height of the Vietnam war and the Cold War, isn't a little more understandable why people felt radical change was needed?

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

The Wessies were jumping all over US cock 1945-1989.

My family dates all the way back to German Silesia, the West was spiritually lobotomized and the East was intellectually lobotomized by the study of the role played by the heroes of the class struggle during Prussia's industrialization. There is something about the study of only the Little Men of History, forcing people to see only the reaction to History's great shifts rather than the great shifts themselves, that spiritually hollows a people into a depressed and darkened folk.

It is the study of weeds fighting for their right to sunlight that makes a people see themselves as pathetic rather than great, the rest of communism logically follows. The working classes have always been culturally traditional for a reason, nobody wants to be a loser.

So my family fled to Canada, ha. And I went to America in the late 2000s. Well, better than Germany for Germany is dead, like Lombard Italy they are a rump state of the leftovers and the opportunists which is neither Rome nor HRE.

The Future of Germany will resemble more a Strong-Man Foreigner playing at being German than whatever Merkel the Nation-Destroyer or King Liutprand were up to.​

the reason Afghanistan became a "nation building" exercise was because it became an international cause celebre to "fix" it with NATO. Not the US alone. NATO specifically. The Europeans would handle it. The boorish Americans would just cut and run (which we should have done, fuck their shit up and go home). Nonono.

Fool America once, shame on the EU and NATO. Fool America twice, shame on America. I don't think America will nation build again, so I don't know what America will do the next time. Maybe take up peace? Forge a solid American Identity which everyone domestically can accept? Hardly, the fires of war will return and America has no plan except not to be seen to do the stupid thing. Staffed by freaks and geeks. America might lose a war, and we wind up in the Starship Troopers timeline?

the peace sign was originally specifically an anti-nuke statement.

The peace sign is a psyop.

I was in despair. Deep despair. I drew myself: the representative of an individual in despair, with hands palm outstretched outwards and downwards in the manner of Goya's peasant before the firing squad. I formalised the drawing into a line and put a circle round it.
-Gerald Holtom, "History of the Symbol". Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

The reference is to Goya's The Third of May 1808 (1814), but the peasant is clearly shown in this painting with his arms stretched upwards, not downwards. Which would be the symbol Elhaz or ᛉ meaning life.

The peace symbol instead looks like a Calc or ᛣ meaning chalice in Anglo-Saxon. It has always looked wrong to me, I don't like people playing with symbols they don't understand. I think people that adopt things unthinkingly want to be changed by the things they adopt and symbols come with deep meaning and history sometimes. Its like a Jewish kid liking an SS uniform and wearing an imitation to his synagogue. That kid would be shaped by that, and he did not know how or why. I don't know, I'm probably overthinking it?

Assuming they're talking about SF and Oakland, they were the few places in CA to vote blue in 1980.

..and then the conservatives came with their mercy and everything became rather strange. Especially the conservatives who all learned nothing about California going blue.

​

Imagine you lived in the post Cuban Missile Crisis 1960s, would you not be sympathetic to a movement all about peace and love at a time when war could mean nuclear war?

I wish people would feel about nuclear war as they do about ground wars of terrible human cost, quick disgust followed by quick return to normal. Nuclear War has brought us a peace, where previously war was getting more and more total than ever before.

America was coming out of isolationism while the world wars were beginning, but if there was a non-nuclear WWIII in Europe between NATO and the USSR than the resulting command economy and war rationing at home while a fifth of the population (40% of men and the majority of it falling on the 20-40 age range) disappears would be the severe wake-up call which Europe experienced twice. The Cuban Missile Crisis is just a jump scare by comparison. Thank god for the Nuclear Peace.

Mind you, if there is a nuclear annihilation then I would be wrong but I doubt it will come to that. Pourquoi mourir pour Dantzig?