Messed Up Korean TV Show "Reunites" Grieving Mother With Dead Daughter Using VR. -

[LazarusOwenhart]

Mother Reunited With Deceased Daughter In VR Show

Last week, a Korean TV special called Meeting You aired which focused on a family’s loss of their seven year-old daughter. And in an unsettling finale, the program attempted to reunite the girl with her mother using a virtual reality recreation, complete with audio....

kotaku.com

Last week, a Korean TV special called Meeting You aired which focused on a family’s loss of their seven year-old daughter. And in an unsettling finale, the program attempted to reunite the girl with her mother using a virtual reality recreation, complete with audio.

You can see it below. Not only was the girl fully replicated in 3D, able to move around and interact, but the mother was given touch-sensitive gloves to accompany her VR headset, and she was able to walk around a limited greenscreen set.


Within the confines of this moment, these fleeting few minutes, I have no idea if this was an ultimately positive experience for this mother, and so don’t want to speak for her personal feelings or try to imagine what she felt interacting like this. Being able to see her daughter one last time might help her in her grieving process. Having some code pretend to be a living thing that she loved might only add to the trauma. Only time, and research, will tell.

https://youtu.be/uflTK8c4w0c


This is one of those things that I thought we had another 5-10 years to get ready for, maybe form some kind of means of reacting or responding to. The uncanny valley is something we still struggle with when it comes simply to entertainment, we’re definitely not equipped to be tackling the same issues with loved ones.

Were this something that could have been done behind closed doors then maybe we could (and now will have to) argue the psychological and ethical merits of such an exercise. But putting it on TV, and then the internet, for the world to see? Whatever the long-term moral and ethical questions are that we’re going to have to face, this is extremely fucked up.



I know there's an argument to be made that this, in certain circumstances may help somebody overcome grief but personally, I think this is fucked up. I can't think of anything worse than seeing one of my kids recreated as a lifeless avatar.

 

[killuminati]

Nigga post the article in the OP. Nobody is trying to give Kotaku clicks.

 

[LazarusOwenhart]

Nigga post the article in the OP. Nobody is trying to give Kotaku clicks.

There, but only because you called me a nigga.

 

[The Man Perry Park]

that's kinda fucked
perhaps the mother, not being well versed in the process of creating her 'daughter' might have found it to be a nice experience.
It'll be interesting to see if that sort of thing makes it to the west, or if it'll get stopped quickly by lawmakers

 

[Shield Breaker]

There, but only because you called me a nigga.

No archive?

Anyway, I think that it is unhealthy. I can see people making VR replicas of lost loved ones instead of dealing with the trauma.

 

[heyilikeyourmom]

What if it glitches out like in red dead redemption and the child starts acting like a cougar

 

[garakfan69]

Nigga post the article in the OP. Nobody is trying to give Kotaku clicks.

No, don't do that outside of A&H. It fucks up KF's SEO.
Post an archive link instead.

 

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

This reminds me of that one Black Mirror episode where the girlfriend gets a robot replacement of her dead boyfriend.

 

[HeyItsHarveyMacClout]

that's kinda fucked
perhaps the mother, not being well versed in the process of creating her 'daughter' might have found it to be a nice experience.
It'll be interesting to see if that sort of thing makes it to the west, or if it'll get stopped quickly by lawmakers

I can’t imagine recreating dead loved ones would be a legal issue. In fact I could see it becoming a real business. The government doesn’t stop you from creating portraits, statues, or CGI recreations of individuals, so I imagine that mindset will carry over to Vr. Hell, when I have kids, if the VR technology is there, I might pay to have a model created of them so I can remember what they looked like when they were young as I get older, and to have something to remember them by if God forbid they should pass. My parents did the same thing with my siblings when I was a kid but they did it by having portraits of us commissioned. If it were going to be outlawed, Im sure there would’ve been more controversy around Disney using Leah in the most recent Star Wars movie.

I could see a law being created to prevent the recreation of someone without their family’s consent within a certain period following their death though. I’m pretty sure once the technology gets there VR is going to be overwhelmed by recreations of pornstars and actresses without their consent. I’m pretty sure they’re already covered by having a copyright on their likeness, but dead people (I believe) are fair game.

 

[The Man Perry Park]

I can’t imagine recreating dead loved ones would be a legal issue. In fact I could see it becoming a real business. The government doesn’t stop you from creating portraits, statues, or CGI recreations of individuals, so I imagine that mindset will carry over to Vr. Hell, when I have kids, if the VR technology is there, I might pay to have a model created of them so I can remember what they looked like when they were young as I get older, and to have something to remember them by if God forbid they should pass. My parents did the same thing with my siblings when I was a kid but they did it by having portraits of us commissioned. If it were going to be outlawed, Im sure there would’ve been more controversy around Disney using Leah in the most recent Star Wars movie.

I could see a law being created to prevent the recreation of someone without their family’s consent within a certain period following their death though. I’m pretty sure once the technology gets there VR is going to be overwhelmed by recreations of pornstars and actresses without their consent. I’m pretty sure they’re already covered by having a copyright on their likeness, but dead people (I believe) are fair game.

yeah i see what you mean, the only real issue I have personally is the imitation of the child/persons actions. I do not think I would be able to do that, at least I would hope I would not agree to that sort of thing. The closest I think that I would not object to would be say the recreation of a video in a VR space, allowing me to be present as a memory unfolds.
I do agree though that it will be big business, so long as the family consents. Scarily I could see some people who do not care for those who passed puppeting the likeness of the diseased around for business purposes, IE xxxtentacion doing a 'VR Show' or something akin to that.

 

[BrunoMattei]

that's kinda fucked
perhaps the mother, not being well versed in the process of creating her 'daughter' might have found it to be a nice experience.
It'll be interesting to see if that sort of thing makes it to the west, or if it'll get stopped quickly by lawmakers

Here's a more disturbing thought: a copy of her daughter is now out there that can be utilized by anyone. Such as a sex VR game or the newest Carmageddon.

 

[HeyItsHarveyMacClout]

Scarily I could see some people who do not care for those who passed puppeting the likeness of the diseased around for business purposes, IE xxxtentacion doing a 'VR Show' or something akin to that.

As far as Im concerned that has already happened with Carrie Fisher in the latest Star Wars. I haven’t seen the movie, but from what I understand she posthumously played a significant role in the movie despite not being alive for a moment of filming. I would’ve understood if they quietly wrote her out of the film and maybe gave her a scene where she announces she’s going on a mission off screen, then used a voice actor to imitate her; but they repurposed cut scenes and bloopers specifically so they could keep Carrie Fisher as Leah. I understand that Carrie Fisher is integral to the character Leah. I understand that divorcing a depiction of Leah from Fisher is like replacing Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones or Matt Damon as Jason Bourne. However, using her after her death just felt cheap and disrespectful, and that Disney wanted to cash in on her cult of personality while they still could. I honestly would’ve respected it more if they replaced her with a new actress or just gave a somber foot note at the start of the film saying that she passed.

I understand that this is not the first time this has happened. One of my favorite films (dare I say kino) is Gladiator and in that one of the characters died just prior to the end of filming, so they used cut scenes to finish his character arc. I’m fine with that. I respect that. When he passed the movie was pretty much done and I’m sure he would’ve wanted to see it be finished. Maybe a similar argument could be made for Fisher but I feel like this is a magnitude different than this situation. After all, suppose I have my likeness recreated today, and I die in car accident tomorrow. Do I have to worry that my unscrupulous relatives will sell my imagery and I’ll appear in cheap car commercials for years to come, or can I rest easy knowing that my legacy is preserved.

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

No archive?

Anyway, I think that it is unhealthy. I can see people making VR replicas of lost loved ones instead of dealing with the trauma.

I think it's unhealthy as well. But for these people, playing VR to see their dead loved ones that's not the hard part. It's Letting go.

 

[Slap47]

I can’t imagine recreating dead loved ones would be a legal issue. In fact I could see it becoming a real business. The government doesn’t stop you from creating portraits, statues, or CGI recreations of individuals, so I imagine that mindset will carry over to Vr. Hell, when I have kids, if the VR technology is there, I might pay to have a model created of them so I can remember what they looked like when they were young as I get older, and to have something to remember them by if God forbid they should pass. My parents did the same thing with my siblings when I was a kid but they did it by having portraits of us commissioned. If it were going to be outlawed, Im sure there would’ve been more controversy around Disney using Leah in the most recent Star Wars movie.

I could see a law being created to prevent the recreation of someone without their family’s consent within a certain period following their death though. I’m pretty sure once the technology gets there VR is going to be overwhelmed by recreations of pornstars and actresses without their consent. I’m pretty sure they’re already covered by having a copyright on their likeness, but dead people (I believe) are fair game.

I wouldn't risk it. The programmer could be a pedo that keeps copies.

 

[The Man Perry Park]

As far as Im concerned that has already happened with Carrie Fisher in the latest Star Wars. I haven’t seen the movie, but from what I understand she posthumously played a significant role in the movie despite not being alive for a moment of filming.

Yes they had Leia feature a fairly large amount in the film, however it was done via cut scenes from prior films and using her daughter as a body double for body movement and back of character shots. I think that is fine as she had signed up for a final film and had the blessing/input of the daughter. I would however hold a different opinion if for example they were to for example make a new film and shoehorned in said footage into that, or worse yet, using CGI to fake said character
however even so that is for portraying a character in a story, so the established look of the character has to be stuck to, for the most part, with some changes to respect the family. For example, Count Dooku will always be Christopher Lee, they may change his appearance slightly to not match him exactly, but for the people who know him as Dooku, the resemblance will be there.
My real issue however with the Leia thing in the latest film, is how they used it for marketing, in the trailers it was very intentional when and how they showed Leia, as if they were telling the viewer, "hey look, its the dead person, come see the dead person on the big screen"
Anywho, I think that regardless of what happens, Actors and private citizens will be treated very differently, although iirc there are already some signing "if i die dont CGI me back" clauses into their contracts

 

[Bon Bon]

I think it could be fine in a controlled environment, like as a tool used by a professional not just a thing you download and plug resources into.
A lot of people experience troubles processing grief and trauma, especially when it happens suddenly (in the case in the article apparently it was a child who died of rapidly advancing leukemia), and a guided simulation where you interact with something like the dead person in a safe, dreamlike (and thus not wholly real and difficult to mistakenly form fake memories with) environment could help get over that hurdle.

 

[Sperglord Dante]

I can’t imagine recreating dead loved ones would be a legal issue. In fact I could see it becoming a real business. The government doesn’t stop you from creating portraits, statues, or CGI recreations of individuals, so I imagine that mindset will carry over to Vr. Hell, when I have kids, if the VR technology is there, I might pay to have a model created of them so I can remember what they looked like when they were young as I get older, and to have something to remember them by if God forbid they should pass. My parents did the same thing with my siblings when I was a kid but they did it by having portraits of us commissioned. If it were going to be outlawed, Im sure there would’ve been more controversy around Disney using Leah in the most recent Star Wars movie.

While reading the article I couldn't help to think this the logical (and quite honestly less creepy) conclusion of post-mortem photography.

-

On the subject of dead actors being brought back to life with CGI witchcraft, we're going to have a very interesting precedent soon:

64 years after James Dean's death, the actor will star in a new movie. Some in Hollywood are horrified but the advances in visual effects could make it commonplace.

Whether it's using CGI to make an actor look decades younger, or bringing a star back from the dead, Hollywood tech is changing moviemaking.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[HeyItsHarveyMacClout]

I think it's unhealthy as well. But for these people, playing VR to see their dead loved ones that's not the hard part. It's Letting go.

I don’t think VR is necessarily more unhealthy that grieving over pictures, letters, and videos of a loved one. It’s just different. Everyone grieves in their own way, and having something to remember somebody by is important in moving forwards. It’s just getting caught up on the past that’s unhealthy. If we got to the point where we could animate depictions of the deceased so that you can go on dates with them, experience new things, and able to immerse ourselves with them such that one could reject reality to be with them, then I would say that there is a real problem. However, a simple rendering for the sake of remembrance is hardly an issue I think

 

[HeyItsHarveyMacClout]

Anywho, I think that regardless of what happens, Actors and private citizens will be treated very differently, although iirc there are already some signing "if i die dont CGI me back" clauses into their contracts

I would hope “if I die don’t CGI me back” would be the default standard

 

[Niggernerd]

Was the mom able to open the menu to press F to pay respects?