Metal Gear -

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True & Honest Fan
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I still have yet to get Guns of The Patriots for the PS3.

View attachment 1478924

Even the cover for this alone is worth a playthrough.
my plan originally was that I'd wait until I got an HD tv and a PS3 around whenever the obviously inevitable MGS4 Buy It Again Edition came out
then life got in the way and I barely even touched MGS3 Substerstienciencing or whatever it was
thinking about it I don't know that I could sit around for five minutes until the damn guards left the room anymore
 
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Duncan Hills Coffee

Oww, my byaaack
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I still have yet to get Guns of The Patriots for the PS3.

View attachment 1478924

Even the cover for this alone is worth a playthrough.
Maybe it's because I started playing the series after 4 came out, but I always liked the game and I saw it as a fitting end to Snake's story. Plus it hits a lot of notes that click with me (the aging hero on one last adventure is a story that I'll never get tired of). I still consider it to be my third favorite in the series behind MGS 1 and 2. For every problem the game has, the highs are enough to keep me going, and I'll never get enough of the final couple of minutes of the last cutscene.
 

kobox666

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After playing the first three back to back, MGS3 annoyed me the most.

Tedious gameplay and menu hopping aside, Big Boss just acts like such a flagrant fucking pussy 14 year old. I'll never understand how Kojima could fuck him up so bad.
I love MGS3, I think its my favorite game. While I do agree thay Big Boss acts a little lost in the situation, its natural that he does, at this point in his career he is still very green, specially when dealing with his emotions. Also, The Boss is one of the greatest characters in video game history.
Gameplaywise, I agree there is too much menu hopping and unecessary mechanics, but the core gameplay is still MGS, most of the bosses are great, specially The End, and the motorcycle sequence is fantastic.
But to each its own.
 

ProblematicUser420

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I love MGS3, I think its my favorite game. While I do agree thay Big Boss acts a little lost in the situation, its natural that he does, at this point in his career he is still very green, specially when dealing with his emotions. Also, The Boss is one of the greatest characters in video game history.
Gameplaywise, I agree there is too much menu hopping and unecessary mechanics, but the core gameplay is still MGS, most of the bosses are great, specially The End, and the motorcycle sequence is fantastic.
But to each its own.
No he really shouldn't act that dumb and childish. Hes a 29 year old special forces operative that has been working with the green berets before MGS3 starts. Hell a fucking recruit out of bootcamp has a better hold on his emotions than Big Boss does.

I loved MGS3 when it first released but now that I'm older it really REALLY seems bad how lame Big Boss acts.
 

kobox666

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No he really shouldn't act that dumb and childish. Hes a 29 year old special forces operative that has been working with the green berets before MGS3 starts. Hell a fucking recruit out of bootcamp has a better hold on his emotions than Big Boss does.

I loved MGS3 when it first released but now that I'm older it really REALLY seems bad how lame Big Boss acts.
He was doing okay until The Boss's betrayal. It natural it would throw him off, she is his mother-figure, her mentor and lover(I think its implied), possibly the only real family he knows. Still he completes his mission, and it would be natural for him to start doubting his loyalty for his country when he learns that part of her true mission was to be killed by him. I think its very well written in the sense that you start with this very innocent character that at the end, has his entire world view thrown upside down.
 

ProblematicUser420

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He was doing okay until The Boss's betrayal. It natural it would throw him off, she is his mother-figure, her mentor and lover(I think its implied), possibly the only real family he knows. Still he completes his mission, and it would be natural for him to start doubting his loyalty for his country when he learns that part of her true mission was to be killed by him. I think its very well written in the sense that you start with this very innocent character that at the end, has his entire world view thrown upside down.
It's not him questioning his loyalty I have a problem with, it's the fact that Kojima presents him as one thing but has him act completely out of what his character should be. Someone that has minimum 12 years in the military shouldn't be having 10 minute philosophical questions on what a soldier should be at the start of a mission. That should have probably been a flashback or something but Kojima had to make all the exposition done on the radio cause it was easier.

And it's not so much that he feels betrayed by the boss but how he expresses it. Its legitimately like a love sick teenager. I dunno maybe that's a David Hayter issue but I honestly dont see a way anyone could have done that dialogue in a convincing manner.
 

kobox666

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It's not him questioning his loyalty I have a problem with, it's the fact that Kojima presents him as one thing but has him act completely out of what his character should be. Someone that has minimum 12 years in the military shouldn't be having 10 minute philosophical questions on what a soldier should be at the start of a mission. That should have probably been a flashback or something but Kojima had to make all the exposition done on the radio cause it was easier.

And it's not so much that he feels betrayed by the boss but how he expresses it. Its legitimately like a love sick teenager. I dunno maybe that's a David Hayter issue but I honestly dont see a way anyone could have done that dialogue in a convincing manner.
I think he is written precisly like that, like a teenager who is starting to challenge the world views imposed on him, part of the beauty of the MGS games is that they dont present a super realistic world, so I dont feel it is so unnatural for him to question those things at that point of his life, its more allegorical. Of course, I know nothing of military tradition, so that might be part of the reason it doesnt bother me.
I do agree the dialogue tends to feel off sometimes, in all the games, maybe its the translation? How knows, maybe Kojima uses a very poetic style that is hard to translate.
Gotta admit I havent played it in some years, maybe I will do it to check out your points. Peace ✌
 
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Sexual Chocolate

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I've played all the main console releases since MGS came out on PS1. Metal Gear Solid is probably the one that impressed me the most because it felt like a huge leap forward at the time. A great mix of compelling gameplay, storytelling, and playful fourth wall breaking.

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2 and 3 were great (I didn't really mind Raiden apart from the whiny codec conversations), but were starting to get self indulgent with the cut scenes.

4 is the worst one, IMO. 27 minutes for a cutscene is just stupid. The gameplay didn't feel like it had evolved from the PS2 era, and the loading times were tedious.

My favorite is MGSV. The open world gameplay was exactly what the franchise needed, Quiet and the dog were great. Kidnapping enemy soldiers and stealing stuff via Fulton is never not fun. And the 80's soundtrack was solid, though could do with more variety.
 

Burned Man

Trans-Legion burnedgender Mormankin
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No he really shouldn't act that dumb and childish. Hes a 29 year old special forces operative that has been working with the green berets before MGS3 starts. Hell a fucking recruit out of bootcamp has a better hold on his emotions than Big Boss does.

I loved MGS3 when it first released but now that I'm older it really REALLY seems bad how lame Big Boss acts.
I think that's a Kojima problem. Big Boss and Snake both can act like clueless rookies or morons when the plot needs them too or when Kojima wants to explain something to the player. Then in the next scene they'll start explaining things to a character like Meryl or Ocelot to show off their veteran status.
 

ProblematicUser420

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I think that's a Kojima problem. Big Boss and Snake both can act like clueless rookies or morons when the plot needs them too or when Kojima wants to explain something to the player. Then in the next scene they'll start explaining things to a character like Meryl or Ocelot to show off their veteran status.
I get that there is a "gamer" reason for them being clueless to explain situations to the player, but with Big Boss it's something more, especially in MGS3. It's more about how he acts around The Boss in general, and the fact he seems to have no idea what it means to be a soldier despite being one for over 10 years at that point (or 15? IIRC he began training with The Boss at age 15 but she claims she chose him cause he was sterile which would have happened when he was 19). It doesn't seem indicative of the man who will become the greatest soldier ever, and I get that Kojima retroactively made that a Patriot misinformation campaign, but to someone who has been playing MGS since 1998 it's *really* hard to accept those kind of retcons especially when you have actual characters that looked up to the man.

Big Boss, or should I say Naked Snake, has always been a weak link for Kojima IMO. Every time they revealed more about him, the worse he became. The Boss is a character that I look at in MGS3, and understand why people would look up to her. She's strong, confident in herself and her convictions, and at least on the surface extremely loyal to her men. Contrast with Naked Snake, who is constantly doubting himself. He's constantly whiny or depressed. I never understand why *anyone* follows Naked Snake. Simply being the guy who killed The Boss isn't enough for me, especially when people stick around after meeting him and that was supposed to be a super covert operation.

Kojima, for all of his greatness, falls into a lot of tropes when it comes to writing main characters which I think greatly hurt Big Boss in the long run. I also feel that his need to have MGS3 take place in the 60's hurt as well. They already de aged him just to make it work (Big Boss originally fought in WWII according to supplemental material) so I get they couldn't really make him a fresh faced early 20's special forces recruit, but maybe they should have had more flashbacks and inner monologue instead of doing everything through the radio?

I dunno, I don't hate MGS3 as much as I probably sound, I just feel that it isn't the masterpiece a lot of people make it out to be. I get why a lot of people liked it more at the time, it's really "simple" and fun, but now that I'm the same age as Big Boss it just feels annoying hearing him act like a teenager. I feel like I'm better suited for that mission than him and I'm hardly a green beret or anything. It's especially disappointing because The Boss feels like everything Big Boss should have been post MGS3, so it's not like Kojima was completely incapable of it, but I never feel like we never really got there because he's so stuck in his style for writing player characters.
 
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Burned Man

Trans-Legion burnedgender Mormankin
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I get that there is a "gamer" reason for them being clueless to explain situations to the player, but with Big Boss it's something more, especially in MGS3. It's more about how he acts around The Boss in general, and the fact he seems to have no idea what it means to be a soldier despite being one for over 10 years at that point (or 15? IIRC he began training with The Boss at age 15 but she claims she chose him cause he was sterile which would have happened when he was 19). It doesn't seem indicative of the man who will become the greatest soldier ever, and I get that Kojima retroactively made that a Patriot misinformation campaign, but to someone who has been playing MGS since 1998 it's *really* hard to accept those kind of retcons especially when you have actual characters that looked up to the man.

Big Boss, or should I say Naked Snake, has always been a weak link for Kojima IMO. Every time they revealed more about him, the worse he became. The Boss is a character that I look at in MGS3, and understand why people would look up to her. She's strong, confident in herself and her convictions, and at least on the surface extremely loyal to her men. Contrast with Naked Snake, who is constantly doubting himself. He's constantly whiny or depressed. I never understand why *anyone* follows Naked Snake. Simply being the guy who killed The Boss isn't enough for me, especially when people stick around after meeting him and that was supposed to be a super covert operation.

Kojima, for all of his greatness, falls into a lot of tropes when it comes to writing main characters which I think greatly hurt Big Boss in the long run. I also feel that his need to have MGS3 take place in the 60's hurt as well. They already de aged him just to make it work (Big Boss originally fought in WWII according to supplemental material) so I get they couldn't really make him a fresh faced early 20's special forces recruit, but maybe they should have had more flashbacks and inner monologue instead of doing everything through the radio?

I dunno, I don't hate MGS3 as much as I probably sound, I just feel that it isn't the masterpiece a lot of people make it out to be. I get why a lot of people liked it more at the time, it's really "simple" and fun, but now that I'm the same age as Big Boss it just feels annoying hearing him act like a teenager. I feel like I'm better suited for that mission than him and I'm hardly a green beret or anything. It's especially disappointing because The Boss feels like everything Big Boss should have been post MGS3, so it's not like Kojima was completely incapable of it, but I never feel like we never really got there because he's so stuck in his style for writing player characters.
I'd say he's fine in 3 mostly because the end implies that he's grown up and found his resolve to tackle the system and will become the man that Big Boss was. Its kind of like Outer Heaven and Zannibar land shaping Snake into the Legendary Solid Snake despite having also been a green beret for 5 years prior like BB was.

I'd say the failure to show Big Boss comes more from the sequels and not showing enough. Portable Ops is ok as his first taste of command and trying to figure it out on the fly but Peace Walker he doesn't really command and MGSV doesn't really contribute much to his character.

Realistically I'd say Big Boss is like John Connor where the character was built up too much to ever be possible to depict him in a completely satisfactory manner retroactively after the fact.

It still would have been nice to have some of the moments like him saving Grey Fox and Naomi or fighting in the middle east and being hailed as Saladin by Sniper Wolf.
 
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Ravana

TAKE WING YE SOULS OF WAR
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It makes me wonder how good Naked Snake really was supposed to be since it was revealed that Skull Face was about three steps behind sweeping up Snake's messes up the whole time. Maybe the whole Big Boss saga was really meant to knock him off his legendary pedestal while propping up Solid Snake as a true legend. Even Snake Eater was set up for Naked Snake to accomplish the mission via the Boss. While the Shadow Moses incident was a bit puppet mastery too it's not until after that Solid Snake goes off and does his own thing taking Gray Fox's words to heart and finding something to fight for himself and ended up being on the right side of the conversation.
 

ProblematicUser420

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It makes me wonder how good Naked Snake really was supposed to be since it was revealed that Skull Face was about three steps behind sweeping up Snake's messes up the whole time. Maybe the whole Big Boss saga was really meant to knock him off his legendary pedestal while propping up Solid Snake as a true legend. Even Snake Eater was set up for Naked Snake to accomplish the mission via the Boss. While the Shadow Moses incident was a bit puppet mastery too it's not until after that Solid Snake goes off and does his own thing taking Gray Fox's words to heart and finding something to fight for himself and ended up being on the right side of the conversation.
I mean, retroactively sure but Kojima has stated that he never had a grand plan and has made it all up as he goes.
 

Notgoodwithusernames

My wife’s boyfriend is my son
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Started playing metal gear rising. Though I have issues like the forced walking segments, lack of instant weapon switching, clumsy projectile weapons, and bare bones stealth (you can’t even crouch) I was having a blast up until Colorado where I ended up getting hit with an endless loading screen
 
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