MMIW chief commissioner recommends automatic first-degree murder charges for killings of Indigenous women - 'It means criminalizing all men who commit violence against Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people. What's wrong with that?'

Exigent Circumcisions

The autism.. it's coming from inside the house!!!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It's a sad example that such people believe reinforcing a racist narrative will magically make the problem solve itself. The first nations men who commit murder are noble savages, surely the only circumstance in their lives that leads them to violence is that the wolkfolx haven't been playing the numbers game correctly. It's dismissive of the way drugs and prostitution affect these communities and it's incredibly condescending.
Oh come on, they're barely people. And they were so much more in tune with nature! Why, instead of using icky gunpowder to kill buffalo, they used to just run them off of cliffs several hundred at a time.

It was much more sustainable that way, I guess?
 

Syaoran Li

Branson's Most Wanted
kiwifarms.net
I will be the first to admit that the Native Americans/First Nations were really fucked over by European colonization and westward expansion by the American, Canadian, and Mexican governments who picked up where the colonial governments of Europe had left off.

In fact, I'd say of all the "protected class" groups on the Progressive Stack, the indigenous tribes of North America are the only ones who could still be considered oppressed by normal non-SJW standards in the 21st Century, unlike Blacks, Muslims, or the LGBT community.

Blacks have been historically victims of systemic oppression in America, the key word being "historically" in this statement. Chattel slavery has been outlawed since 1865 and Jim Crow laws and racial segregation have been outlawed since 1964. Yet many in the black community still remain butthurt over it and will often invoke these historical grievances to castigate whites (as well as Jews and Asians) while refusing to acknowledge the myriad issues within the black community itself that are actually harming blacks.

The worst part is that anyone who dares to mention these internal issues even exist at all is automatically branded a racist (unless they're black as well, then they're an Uncle Tom) and while the KKK has become a defanged and irrelevant fragmented mess with no real political clout, Black Lives Matter has filled their niche as the violent racist political movement that terrorizes innocent people to enforce their socio-political agenda (and much like the Reconstruction-era KKK, BLM is often used by opportunists in the Democratic Party) and you even have black supremacist groups openly espousing threats of violence and largely going unpunished such as the New Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, and the Black Hebrew Israelites, who all share eerie parallels with white supremacist movements like the Neo-Nazis, more racist forms of Norse Heathenry, and Christian Identity.

Islamophobia did become more prominent after 9/11, but the misguided Islamophilia of the SJW Left combined with the neocons and neoliberals making the Middle East even more of a clusterfuck than before has allowed Islamic fundamentalism to become more prominent at an exponential level. Something like ISIS could not have been possible twenty years ago.

The demise of the Religious Right as a relevant and viable force in American politics has essentially ended any actual systemic discrimination of the LGBT community.

Same-sex marriage is legal in all 50 states and I'm fairly sure it was probably legal in Canada on the national level well before it was in the United States (any Canadian Kiwis can feel free to correct me if I am wrong) and the only real threats to the LGBT community in the West come from within the LGBT community itself in the form of screeching troons and lesbian dangerhair sows demanding special treatment and alienating both the heterosexual majority as well as gay men, non-dangerhair lesbians, and especially bisexuals of both genders.

TERF's (as in actual misandrist radicals, and not otherwise reasonable lesbians who won't simply fuck troons) are also a factor in the possibly imminent implosion of the LGBT community, but nobody really likes actual TERF's and they have no real power aside from being a troon boogeyman figure.

Islamic radicals also pose a greater threat to the LGBT community as shown by the Pulse Nightclub shooting, but the SJW Left conveniently ignore that.

But unlike blacks, Muslims, or queers, the Native Americans and First Nations actually do suffer a form of systemic oppression in the form of the reservation system.

Now, I'm not sure how Canada's Indian reservations work but I can cite examples of how fucked up the American Rez is.

Due to the way the reservations work, it keeps many Natives bound into a life of poverty, addiction, and crime but the same system that holds them back also gives them privileges in the form of mostly meaningless tribal sovereignty.

See, federally-recognized Indian tribes are still under the rule of the Federal government but are on paper their own sovereign nations.

While they have no real political or economic power, the treaties that grant the tribes their own sovereignty allow the reservations to be exempt from state and local laws in most cases which give certain economic opportunities for both private corporations and the tribal governments that run the reservations on the local level. This is why Indian Casinos exist.

However, as seen with many Indian casinos and other economic enterprises on reservations, very little of the money they make actually go back to the Native communities or the local economy. Most of it is pocketed by the tribal governments, many of which are notoriously corrupt.

But despite the real issues faced by Native Americans and First Nations, passing laws that treat them like endangered species will not fix those issues.
 

Save the Loli

kiwifarms.net
Oh come on, they're barely people. And they were so much more in tune with nature! Why, instead of using icky gunpowder to kill buffalo, they used to just run them off of cliffs several hundred at a time.

It was much more sustainable that way, I guess?
It was more sustainable, because the number of bison you can kill yearly by running them off a cliff is far less than hopping on your horse (which competes with bison for food) and shooting them.

Unless you're talking about the prehistoric bison, the Injuns hunted all those to extinction.
 

Exigent Circumcisions

The autism.. it's coming from inside the house!!!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It was more sustainable, because the number of bison you can kill yearly by running them off a cliff is far less than hopping on your horse (which competes with bison for food) and shooting them.

Unless you're talking about the prehistoric bison, the Injuns hunted all those to extinction.
Citation needed, plox. There was more than one buffalo jump in the west to begin with, I was just pointing out that they must have been overkilling because it's hard to be exact when you're doing something like that. It's just another way we paint them as noble savages instead of fellow humans capable of the same excesses and foolishness as the rest of us.

Agreed on the prehistoric bison, though. They ate all the original horses before they could figure out to ride them as well.
 

TerribleIdeas™

Master of Cunt-Puppets
kiwifarms.net
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/mmiw-chief-commissioner-recommends-automatic-first-degree-murder-charges-for-killings-of-indigenous-women



Tldr: Canada set up a commission to investigate why there was thousands of missing and/or murdered Native women. They believe in setting up a different set of legal standards based on race. The actual reasons for why these women disappearing is because of rampant prostitution and the fact that they're from communities that don't give a shit about them.

It's kinda ironic. The sjw lawyers against this are literally arguing that this is bad because it would lead to more Native men going to prison (because people of the same race tend to kill eachother).

This commission is concerned about the accused and perpetrators wondering free in their community but they're also sperging about these communities having a higher rate of incarceration. Its madness.
The really funny thing is there's VASTLY more dead 1st Nations men than women, in Canada.
 

Save the Loli

kiwifarms.net
Citation needed, plox. There was more than one buffalo jump in the west to begin with, I was just pointing out that they must have been overkilling because it's hard to be exact when you're doing something like that. It's just another way we paint them as noble savages instead of fellow humans capable of the same excesses and foolishness as the rest of us.
The citations used for the Wikipedia article on bison is a good start (and I've actually read at a couple of those books/articles listed). Bison jumps were all over the place, but the population numbers of bison are clear the red man couldn't put a dent in the population of bison until he got horses and guns from the white man (plus got lots of sweet deals from the white man when they'd bring in bison skins, capitalist incentive is powerful indeed). That's literally the reason bison almost went extinct, because they kept killing them like their ancestors would not realizing there's a difference between killing a few thousand a year and a few thousand a day.
 

Exigent Circumcisions

The autism.. it's coming from inside the house!!!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The citations used for the Wikipedia article on bison is a good start (and I've actually read at a couple of those books/articles listed). Bison jumps were all over the place, but the population numbers of bison are clear the red man couldn't put a dent in the population of bison until he got horses and guns from the white man (plus got lots of sweet deals from the white man when they'd bring in bison skins, capitalist incentive is powerful indeed). That's literally the reason bison almost went extinct, because they kept killing them like their ancestors would not realizing there's a difference between killing a few thousand a year and a few thousand a day.
I get the feeling this is one of those 'arguments' between two people who fundamentally agree on the matter but have got themselves stuck in the weeds and are fighting about whether they're in thistles or nettles.

It seems to me that you're saying I was wrong about when they started slaughtering the bison wantonly, not if they ever did, or whether or not it was excessive so.. :bluelabel: cheers.
 

Rei is shit

kiwifarms.net
This is offtopic but I decided to enter that shit into talktotransformer, its AI that will "finish" a bit of given input text.

Here are a few possible conclusion sto the fastest growing acronym in the world.
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Transgendered, Intersexual, Queer, Questioning, 2-Spirited, Trans, Pansexual, Pansexuality, Non-violent, Autogynephilic, Bashing, Rude, Humiliation, Humiliation, Homophobia, Slut-Shaming, Sexual Assault, Sexually Violent, Abuse, Sexual Misogyny, Transphobia, Gender Nondiscrimination & Bias Support Groups & Groups in General

PFLAG – Queer, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender

Rainbow Youth – Rainbow Youth

Pride Toronto – Pride Toronto

RISCA – LGBT Legal Defense And Education Fund

Reform Toronto – reformtocontroller.ca, gay.toronto.ontarion.ca, gay.toronto.on-line.com, www.goscanner.ca

Resolution – Toronto Gay Bar Association


Sexuality & Culture Toronto – Sexuality & Culture Toronto

Trans Pride – Toronto Pride


trans.gsa.on.ca – The Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer Society of Ontario

Transsexual Health Alliance of Toronto – Transsexual Health Alliance of Toronto

And another

2-Spirited, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, asexual, Asexual, Pansexual, LGB, Pansexual, asexual, asexual-trans, intersex, questioning Gender identity (as reflected in body appearance and behavior): Female Female Gender expression (as reflected in body language and facial expressions): Feminine Feminine/boyish Masculine Masculine/feminine Bisexual/female/queer Homosexual Gay/lesbian /bisexual Open in a separate window The number of gay men and lesbian men was approximately 1.5% and 1.3%, respectively, in 2013 ( ). Although the percentage of adults aged 18-24 who identified as gay/lesbian or bisexual has increased from 14% to 13% in the past 5 years, its overall share among sexual minority, LGBT, and asexual adults increased significantly from 1.4% in 2000 to 1.8% in 2013 ( ). The prevalence of gay & lesbian youth experiencing sexual harassment in the community
 
N

NN 401

Guest
kiwifarms.net
That was entirely unintentional, nobody had a germ theory and by the time the pilgrims came back the majority of the damage was done.


They gave as good as they got; hell, Europeans traded them guns for furs and other shit. Also, you can't steal property from people who have no concept of private property. They didn't own the land because they were nomadic.


This is where you're edging dangerously into the kind of racism that even shitlords like me start objecting to. Got them addicted? They wanted firewater, Europeans wanted furs and other things. Trades were made, people were happy. Some people can't handle their liquor. The trick is to avoid drinking it, not blame the bartender.


Again, would you rather Europeans wrote them off as a bunch of ineducable savages unfit for civilization and assimilation? Do we have any evidence at all that they suffered more brutally than other children in boarding houses around the Commonwealth? I've heard some tales.



They're raping and murdering themselves. They're humans with agency. Maybe they should leave the Rez? Nah, blame whitey, that's easier and solves literally nothing.

I'm not trying to call you an asshole or anything, just giving my opinion. You seem nice. :heart-full:


It is patent communist hippie nonsense that the natives didn’t understand the concept of owning property.

Why else do you think they fought the western powers and each other? For fun?

Obviously not.

It was for control of resources. Resources that each tribe wanted to control within their territories.


I wish this stupid myth would die.

Also, whether or not what happened to the natives was unique or not is irrelevant. (Hint: it wasn’t unique)

Getting raped and beaten still sucks.

Left leaning nations like Canada and Australia didn’t stop their shitty behavior towards their native peoples well into the 1970s.

It’s the hypocrisy that’s galling. Where they pass themselves off as this liberal bastion and they can’t do right by their people.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: spiritofamermaid

Exigent Circumcisions

The autism.. it's coming from inside the house!!!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It is patent communist hippie nonsense that the natives didn’t understand the concept of owning property.

Why else do you think they fought the western powers and each other? For fun?

Obviously not.

It was for control of resources. Resources that each tribe wanted to control within their territories.


I wish this stupid myth would die.

Also, whether or not what happened to the natives was unique or not is irrelevant. (Hint: it wasn’t unique)

Getting raped and beaten still sucks.

Left leaning nations like Canada and Australia didn’t stop their shitty behavior towards their native peoples well into the 1970s.

It’s the hypocrisy that’s galling. Where they pass themselves off as this liberal bastion and they can’t do right by their people.
We still haven't stopped our shitty behaviour, we just find new words to justify the same old shit. Now it's woke and enlightened to segregate them, it's for their own good you see. Used to be we just didn't want them contaminating our society. Now we've got to save them from us.

I'm drunk but your conclusion about their views on property doesn't follow from your premise so I will try to remember to come back to this.
 

frozenrunner

I could really use the salt
kiwifarms.net
It is patent communist hippie nonsense that the natives didn’t understand the concept of owning property.

Why else do you think they fought the western powers and each other? For fun?

Obviously not.

It was for control of resources. Resources that each tribe wanted to control within their territories.
And there was no rule of law or legal concept of property rights, so who owned resources was entirely up to who was stronger and could defend them or seize them while killing/running off/brutalizing the previous owners.

I feel awful that NA natives became marginalized (truly marginalized, not the bullshit progressive faggots whine about these days) in the lands they lived in. I feel awful for anyone that happens to. But they weren't painting with all the colors of the wind and singing Kumbaya in unison with the other tribes when Whitey showed up. They were fighting, murdering, raping, torturing, and enslaving each other while seizing resources held by others.

And then Whitey showed up and turned out to be much stronger than them. Oh well. They lost the game they had always been playing by those rules. Am I supposed to feel white guilt about that? I can't, because I see Native Americans and First Nations people just like I see everyone else.
 

Dr. Tran

A man of action
kiwifarms.net
Wouldn't just charging the people for normal murder suffice? I think murder is generally a severe enough charge. Killing a protected class and being charged with double super murder happens all the time, but actually codifying it into laws will just show the farce.
 

Male Idiot

Loli Hitler
kiwifarms.net
This is offtopic but I decided to enter that shit into talktotransformer, its AI that will "finish" a bit of given input text.

Here are a few possible conclusion sto the fastest growing acronym in the world.
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Transgendered, Intersexual, Queer, Questioning, 2-Spirited, Trans, Pansexual, Pansexuality, Non-violent, Autogynephilic, Bashing, Rude, Humiliation, Humiliation, Homophobia, Slut-Shaming, Sexual Assault, Sexually Violent, Abuse, Sexual Misogyny, Transphobia, Gender Nondiscrimination & Bias Support Groups & Groups in General

PFLAG – Queer, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender

Rainbow Youth – Rainbow Youth

Pride Toronto – Pride Toronto

RISCA – LGBT Legal Defense And Education Fund

Reform Toronto – reformtocontroller.ca, gay.toronto.ontarion.ca, gay.toronto.on-line.com, www.goscanner.ca

Resolution – Toronto Gay Bar Association


Sexuality & Culture Toronto – Sexuality & Culture Toronto

Trans Pride – Toronto Pride


trans.gsa.on.ca – The Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer Society of Ontario

Transsexual Health Alliance of Toronto – Transsexual Health Alliance of Toronto

And another

2-Spirited, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, asexual, Asexual, Pansexual, LGB, Pansexual, asexual, asexual-trans, intersex, questioning Gender identity (as reflected in body appearance and behavior): Female Female Gender expression (as reflected in body language and facial expressions): Feminine Feminine/boyish Masculine Masculine/feminine Bisexual/female/queer Homosexual Gay/lesbian /bisexual Open in a separate window The number of gay men and lesbian men was approximately 1.5% and 1.3%, respectively, in 2013 ( ). Although the percentage of adults aged 18-24 who identified as gay/lesbian or bisexual has increased from 14% to 13% in the past 5 years, its overall share among sexual minority, LGBT, and asexual adults increased significantly from 1.4% in 2000 to 1.8% in 2013 ( ). The prevalence of gay & lesbian youth experiencing sexual harassment in the community
Yep, muslims are not the most sexually degenerated group on the planet. Inshallah!
 

Affluent Reptilian

kiwifarms.net
Natives are one situation where I actually understand their anger and hatred.

Caucasians came to the native land with diseases, shot them up, stole their land, got them addicted to firewater leading to a shit ton of cases of fetal alcohol syndrome and abusive parent that would span generations, then we put them in special schools away from the public eyes where they were commonly both physically and sexually abused (not even counting mental trauma), and take a bit more and more land of theirs every year, while they rape and murder themselves on reserves with nothing but drugs and shattered culture.
If they are anything like primitive peoples elsewhere, by objective metrics then before colonisation their lives were probably worse. We can't really fathom the level of casual violence present in most early societies - or such was my impression from reading Lawrence Keeley's War Before Civilization. Remains indicate deaths due to violence are pretty much universally in double digit percentages in such societies, with some getting as high as 60%. I'm not deeply familiar with Canadian natives so perhaps they were a bit more developed than the run-of-the-mill aborigines, but if not then I doubt things are worse for any randomly selected individual now than they would have been otherwise (and counterfactuals are the only real way to evaluate these things since down any timeline you're going to see things that are in an absolute sense bad).
 

kcbbq

No controlling legal authority
kiwifarms.net
And there was no rule of law or legal concept of property rights, so who owned resources was entirely up to who was stronger and could defend them or seize them while killing/running off/brutalizing the previous owners.

I feel awful that NA natives became marginalized (truly marginalized, not the bullshit progressive faggots whine about these days) in the lands they lived in. I feel awful for anyone that happens to. But they weren't painting with all the colors of the wind and singing Kumbaya in unison with the other tribes when Whitey showed up. They were fighting, murdering, raping, torturing, and enslaving each other while seizing resources held by others.

And then Whitey showed up and turned out to be much stronger than them. Oh well. They lost the game they had always been playing by those rules. Am I supposed to feel white guilt about that? I can't, because I see Native Americans and First Nations people just like I see everyone else.
It's pretty racist to assume they were some monolithic block that had the same hippie communistic beliefs and philosophies, but starry eyed rich white people love to do that.

Cue Indian (played by a white dude) shedding a single tear.
 

Terrorist

Osama bin Ladkin
kiwifarms.net
It's dismissive of the way drugs and prostitution affect these communities and it's incredibly condescending.
Tribal govt doesn't want these looked into because they're probably heavily involved in all of them, or at least get bribes, and there are things suggesting that the normal canadian govt does too (iirc disappearing injun women started in rez schools).

Of course American libs are so braindead they don't realize Canada sits on millions of injun bones just like we do
 
N

NN 401

Guest
kiwifarms.net
And there was no rule of law or legal concept of property rights, so who owned resources was entirely up to who was stronger and could defend them or seize them while killing/running off/brutalizing the previous owners.

I feel awful that NA natives became marginalized (truly marginalized, not the bullshit progressive faggots whine about these days) in the lands they lived in. I feel awful for anyone that happens to. But they weren't painting with all the colors of the wind and singing Kumbaya in unison with the other tribes when Whitey showed up. They were fighting, murdering, raping, torturing, and enslaving each other while seizing resources held by others.

And then Whitey showed up and turned out to be much stronger than them. Oh well. They lost the game they had always been playing by those rules. Am I supposed to feel white guilt about that? I can't, because I see Native Americans and First Nations people just like I see everyone else.
I largely concur that this was the reality as you described it.


However...

if this ever happens to us in the Americas do you suppose you’ll be as magnanimous and zen like about the whole situation as you are now?

This is not a gotcha or bad faith question btw.

Tangent:


As for whether or not their lives were worse off before the advent of the colonial powers...
That always struck me as rather rich as if some how the conquering powers had the welfare of the conquered people’s in the forefront of their minds.

Let’s not forget that the vast majority died due contact with the colonials not warfare.

The millions upon millions dead was an accident.



Funnily, enough tribes that fought the US to a stand still and were able to negotiate terms on a more fair footing are pretty successful today and don’t seem carry the same kind of baggage.
 

gun

kiwifarms.net
excellent, fuck treating them like human individuals on a case to case basis, theyre fucking endangered fauna now to be preyed upon, what if a drunk one stumbles off of the reservation and gets ran over? might harm the ecosystem
 
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