Morality of Piracy - Yet another quality FuckedUp thread

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

If you believe that creators are entitled to the exclusive ownership of music, writings, artwork, etc. then piracy is immoral. It’s pretty cut and dry.

Then if you believe that you had to follow that logic through and you'd find an immense ammount of things would be immoral, paying for them would be equally immoral as pirating in most cases as most creators don't actually own the copyright of the product you are buying but another company. You`d have to cross out a lot of things out of the list of things that are moral, unless you believe in double standards and consider moral to pay for a record label or a publisher thats going to be taking most if not all of the profits for the creators work because they are the ones that own that ip, if you think in such black and white then paying for it would actually be more immoral as you are actively supporting other people profiting of the creators. If you want to make it cut and dry well there you go.

 

[I can't imagine]

I don't really care whether someone pirates something, but I do dislike the people that try to moralize it with "yeah, but the publisher is EVIL" or "actually, I'm HELPING the creators". Like, whatever, pirate or don't; don't pretend you're actually doing it for any reason other than wanting shit without paying for it.

 

[Lammy]

I think trying to debate the morality of piracy is silly, since people just are or aren't going to pirate.
Non-Pirates may or may not think it's moral, but since they're not pirates to begin with, their opinions on it don't strongly matter since they're generally not going to affect whether piracy occurs.
Pirates, on the other hand, will usually simply not care (as they should), or be so harshly biased towards trying to excuse themselves by claiming that it's moral (although, not to say that it is or isn't) that arguments about it aren't going to change their mind.

In my personal experience, I pirate shit all the time, and most things I pirate, I usually would not have bought were the ability to pirate it unavailable. In most cases, I simply would have not cared and moved on, since I usually buy things I am open to buying before considering pirating them.
There have been cases where piracy gave me the confidence to buy something I otherwise would not have, and cases where I pirated things that I would have otherwise bought. You could argue that evens out, but it doesn't really matter if it does or doesn't.
Is that moral? Is that not? I've gotten hundreds of ISP letters but never actually had anything happen, so I'm of the opinion that I just don't care. I can do it, and nothing is stopping me, and until that changes, I'll use my American FREEDOM to do whatever the fuck I want.

 

[A Cardboard Box]

IP is a meme, copyright law is a meme, and patents are a meme. Literally nothing positive comes from IP protection. Look at drug prices.

 

[XYZpdq]

if we're cribbing from that other thread then

piracy has always been so natural to me that I've never really "thought" about it
my parents had stacks of reel-to-reel tapes of music so the idea of "just make a copy and keep the copy" has literally been around me all my life, then the internet came along and made it a lot easier

 

[I Love Beef]

If you believe that creators are entitled to the exclusive ownership of music, writings, artwork, etc. then piracy is immoral. It’s pretty cut and dry.

I also believe creators are just as responsible for their dealings and actions taken to ensure their market share worth and face value if they choose to engage in an economic competitive setting. If you can't cover the venue, it's only fair that is lost money you never dared to gain to earn in the first place. TL;DR that's when piracy becomes a necessity.

 

[Gun Safety]

Then if you believe that you had to follow that logic through and you'd find an immense ammount of things would be immoral, paying for them would be equally immoral as pirating in most cases as most creators don't actually own the copyright of the product you are buying but another company. You`d have to cross out a lot of things out of the list of things that are moral, unless you believe in double standards and consider moral to pay for a record label or a publisher thats going to be taking most if not all of the profits for the creators work because they are the ones that own that ip, if you think in such black and white then paying for it would actually be more immoral as you are actively supporting other people profiting of the creators. If you want to make it cut and dry well there you go.

Employees working for a company are selling their labor and the product of their labor, even concepts and ideas. People can also sell their ownership to corporations. Not to be a capitalist apologist but that’s sort of a fundamental concept of modern economies, people able to buy the products of other peoples labor and retain ownership.

That said I don’t really think it’s a moral failing for someone to pirate media.

 

[дядя Боря]

On the grand scheme of things piracy is small potatoes compared to all other shit people engage directly or indirectly, deliberately or accidentally. Paying for merch to companies that use slave labor is supporting what then, would the slaves in some third world shithole be better or worse off? We can't even come to an agreement on causality here. And that's just a small example how most people on this planet collectively fuck each other, every fucking day.

Big corps would fuck everyone every chance they get, pretty much everyone will too, also. The salt, whining and appeals to morality is in reality a tool to extract extra cash.

Our USPTO is badly broken and heavily favors actors with lots of cash, direct opposite what it should be. Usually it's the bigger players who will try to keep competition at bay with it, not the smaller startups.

Would artists create art if they were paid nothing? Yes, it never paid all that well anyway, anytime. The real big bucks come from great marketing and merchandising not creating some unique character or plot line or music.


... if you didn't pick up the hint, I am not trying to rationalize piracy or make it palatable. We are all selfish beings in highly interconnected world where piracy impact isn't as big as people think it is.

 

[AnnLurker]

Stealing is always wrong and this punching up mentality is for fucking retards. Just admit you want free stuff and are no better than any other thief.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Your vote matters as much as your piracy.

Stealing is always wrong and this punching up mentality is for fucking retards. Just admit you want free stuff and are no better than any other thief.

It's copyright infringement, not theft, but I agree that you should admit you're a criminal instead of talking about evil corps.

 

[Troonos]

Get a job, freeloaders. Stop pretending you're some courageous freedom fighters revolting against corporations. You're just greedy thieves who don't understand the value of labor.

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

I don't feel bad about pirating.

if we're cribbing from that other thread then

Lol, my dad used to borrow movies from the Library stash and copy them for us at home.

 

[An Account]

Every penny towards a Hollywood film or a AAA game is another penny in California’s coffers. The only time I’ve paid for media is when it was made outside of California.

 

[дядя Боря]

Stealing is always wrong and this punching up mentality is for fucking retards. Just admit you want free stuff and are no better than any other thief.

Nope, both choice of victim and offense are well ranked but very differently among groups of people.

Stealing from old ladies vs. rich shitbag has heinous scale attached to it. But also in dealing with dhimmi and goyims and slaves vs citizens etc.

The act itself also has been codified on some scale too, back to ancient times and changed through times. Women were and in places are property, like dogs. Even in US, to this day, traffic accident running over a dog requires to be reported meanwhile not with a cat.

It's copyright infringement, not theft, but I agree that you should admit you're a criminal instead of talking about evil corps.

Corps are epitome of selfish (or as some would say evil), especially public ones since its sole purpose of existance is to increase value to shareholders. It has no soul or morals. The only moral restraint is its public perception in the eyes of general public that may boycott its ass if its actions are found to be questionable. Otherwise, gassing jews or gassing rats, it's all the same business profit if no one knows. Ask IBM about it.

 

[AnnLurker]

Nope, both choice of victim and offense are well ranked but very differently among groups of people.

Stealing from old ladies vs. rich shitbag has heinous scale attached to it. But also in dealing with dhimmi and goyims and slaves vs citizens etc.

The act itself also has been codified on some scale too, back to ancient times and changed through times. Women were and in places are property, like dogs. Even in US, to this day, traffic accident running over a dog requires to be reported meanwhile not with a cat.




Corps are epitome of selfish (or as some would say evil), especially public ones since its sole purpose of existance is to increase value to shareholders. It has no soul or morals. The only moral restraint is its public perception in the eyes of general public that may boycott its ass if its actions are found to be questionable. Otherwise, gassing jews or gassing rats, it's all the same business profit if no one knows. Ask IBM about it.

If you didn't make it and you took it without compensation it's stealing. If you kill a cat, you still killed a cat regardless of what the law says. Morality is absolute even if crime and punishment are not. All that matters is if you care or not about it. You might not care you killed a cat, and that's fine but you still did it. I don't care if I kill a cow to eat it. I know it's morally taking a life but I like how it tastes more than I care about it's life. You want that item more than you care about stealing it. Just admit you are a thief and stop trying to pretend you are better than the person you are stealing from because you aren't.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I've heard idiots say that piracy will encourage innovation in the media that's being pirated from, as in somehow subtracting money from a product will make it better. Where's the profit motive in innovating an industry that sees no fiscal returns?

 

[BoingBoingBoi]

depends on your moral view. deontologically, if you compare it with stealing, then it's wrong and that's that. generally this is my attitude. it's kind of like a "ring of gyges" case. the chance of getting caught is minimal, and the amount of direct harm is minimum---one copy of the game/movie, just for you---but still it feels wrong. i don't know if stealing is the best analogy though. it's really a unique and technologically embedded phenomenon.

with a consequentialist view though i think that piracy is a force for good in the world because it forces creators to work harder to gain the moral support of their audience. The reasoning of the consumer is "why should I pay for something that I can just get for free?" and it's up to the creator to make something that people want to pay for. so it makes creators work harder to make better products and everyone benefits.

personally, i pay for all of my games. feels like the right thing to do. unless i'm trying to spite a company, then i pirate and seed just for fun because fuck them.

i dont really watch movies but have pirated plenty. it's not really justifiable. when people use the "but they're huge evil corporations who have plenty of money anyway" meme argument they forget to think about the weakest person in the organization---that's who you're stealing from, the intern who worked the lights, or the code monkey that made the cgi grass twitch during that one scene. when you think about stealing from that person rather than from the millionare director/actor/producer, you'll tihnk twice.

I've heard idiots say that piracy will encourage innovation in the media that's being pirated from, as in somehow subtracting money from a product will make it better. Where's the profit motive in innovating an industry that sees no fiscal returns?

but people "spend money to make money" all the time. if people would rather steal your shitty product then isn't that incentive to make something better? and if the simple and timeless transaction of exchanging a finished product for currency isn't entirely reliable anymore, then people would find other ways to get support for their projects (e.g. crowdfunding, live performances/meetings, conventions etc.)

 

[Deadpool]

I don't give a fuck if it's moral or not, I'm still going to do it because I want the shit I pirate, but I don't want to pay for it. I've pirated nearly a thousand gigs of comics and I'll continue to pirate them. Anyone who doesn't like it can blow me, owners of the IP included.

 

[AnnLurker]

depends on your moral view. deontologically, if you compare it with stealing, then it's wrong and that's that. generally this is my attitude. it's kind of like a "ring of gyges" case. the chance of getting caught is minimal, and the amount of direct harm is minimum---one copy of the game/movie, just for you---but still it feels wrong. i don't know if stealing is the best analogy though. it's really a unique and technologically embedded phenomenon.

with a consequentialist view though i think that piracy is a force for good in the world because it forces creators to work harder to gain the moral support of their audience. The reasoning of the consumer is "why should I pay for something that I can just get for free?" and it's up to the creator to make something that people want to pay for. so it makes creators work harder to make better products and everyone benefits.

personally, i pay for all of my games. feels like the right thing to do. unless i'm trying to spite a company, then i pirate and seed just for fun because fuck them.

i dont really watch movies but have pirated plenty. it's not really justifiable. when people use the "but they're huge evil corporations who have plenty of money anyway" meme argument they forget to think about the weakest person in the organization---that's who you're stealing from, the intern who worked the lights, or the code monkey that made the cgi grass twitch during that one scene. when you think about stealing from that person rather than from the millionare director/actor/producer, you'll tihnk twice.

All you are going to do is force the creator to stop making things because why make something if it just gets stolen. There is a reason socialism doesn't work because the "moral support" of the farmer making food for people that just steal it from him isn't worth shit and no one is going to pay for something they get for free.

I don't give a fuck if it's moral or not, I'm still going to do it because I want the shit I pirate, but I don't want to pay for it. I've pirated nearly a thousand gigs of comics and I'll continue to pirate them. Anyone who doesn't like it can blow me.

At least you have the balls to admit it. Thank you.

 

[BoingBoingBoi]

All you are going to do is force the creator to stop making things because why make something if it just gets stolen. There is a reason socialism doesn't work because the "moral support" of the farmer making food for people that just steal it from him isn't worth shit and no one is going to pay for something they get for free.

idk what socialism has to do with it. i'm not talking about "moral support"; i'm talking about indirect, widespread, public financial support. people make this calculation all the time. "i like this brand so i'll spend my money on them." "chick fil a is run by bigots so i wont support them." "tlou2 is a sjw nightmare so i'm gonna pirate the shit out of it." "yandaredev is the coolest dude ever i'm gonna support him on patreon." people do this all the time.