Multi-level marketing/pyramid schemes and the people who fall for them -

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IBrokeBob

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My sis in law roped my mom in law into melaleuca. So we were kinda obligated to sign up under my mil to help mil. It was overpriced, nothing great and some was downright useless or yucky like their lemon scented soap. It just smelled so cheap. Like you needed another bath after you washed with it. Poor mil did not have money for it and you were required to buy about $100 a month.

It just takes a special kind of stupid to believe anything an mlm whether it is a product or a promise. The only thing an mlm can really sell you is disappointment and ticket to the world of debt. Ummm, no thanks.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
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Avon is actually not a traditional MLM, as in ppl do make money selling the stuff, not just recruiting. Mary Kay otoh is a straight up psycho MLM Jesus cult. If you see someone driving a pink Mary Kay Caddy run the other way because that is a crazy bitch on wheels.

Amway was truly the first MLM. Their name became so tainted for about 15 years they changed the name to Quixar. One of the only actual ways to make big money in Amway is to sell inspiration tapes and “how to” guides to the suckers. Reading about ppl who got hooked into Amway they all talk about how many hours a day they listened to tapes by Amway gurus to stay motivated. Amway is also very religious and make recruiting for Amway seem the same as doing the lords work.

One of the newer phenomenon with MLMs has been the way they use FB. Since all these scams required sales quotas the Huns started these weird “secret raffle” groups. Basically if you “won” ppl had to buy your crap, if you lost you had to buy others MLM crap. I only became aware of this thanks to insane posts on a local community group where these bitches called each other out for not following through on buys. This group had nothing to do with these raffles but the crazy bitches would get so mad at non-payers they’d hunt down every group the person belonged to trying to publicly shame them into buying the junk after losing a raffle. They were totally bonkers.
 

IBrokeBob

kiwifarms.net
Wow so the raffle is kinda like russian roulette only with shitty products and debts instead of a bullet. Damn, thats harsh, id rather the bullet than deal with mlm crap.

I dont remember avon being mlm decades ago. I was a teen who sold it to the older aunts and family who wanted it. I never had to deal with a stranger, an upline or down line. I think it was straight commission and it was decent money for a kid who literally did nothing but put in an order and package stuff to be picked up.I

Thats sad if the screwed it up by going so much to the mlm spectrum. But for me the collector perfume bottles are pure nostalgia. I have one of that my great gram left me because a child i wanted it and she promised it to me.
 

Capsaicin Addict

Just a fellow who loves spicy food.
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Not exactly an MLM but here in the UK we have a lot of 'charity muggers' and direct salespeople on the streets. Charity muggers are usually students trying to make a few extra bob by harassing you in the street being! really! quirky! and! guilt! trippy! and direct salespeople are just annoying, offering you a better deal on your insurance/internet/energy. You can literally make it very obvious that you're avoiding them and they'll come harass you anyway. It really pains me when they manage to catch old people out, especially for charities, because they often don't realise that the people making them donate are profiting hugely.

When job hunting I've seen these jobs advertised but they are very vague. They dont mention its sales and based on comissions. I'll try and screencap a few ads later.

I see the companies when walking to work early in the morning. Some stand outside a mall in my city and do their singing, chants and games. I've also heard from people who have done these jobs for less than a week that when you apply they phone you for a chat, invite you to a group interview which is basically a sales pitch and then 'hire' you but expect you to do x amount of free training days (against UK labour laws). It all seems really sketchy and I didn't really like them to MLMs until reading through this thread.
I think I saw a couple of those once here Stateside, they looked too well off to be panhandlers (though you never know).

I find saying nothing and staring at them blankly works best. Responding in a foreign language is also amusing.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
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Wow so the raffle is kinda like russian roulette only with shitty products and debts instead of a bullet. Damn, thats harsh, id rather the bullet than deal with mlm crap.

I dont remember avon being mlm decades ago. I was a teen who sold it to the older aunts and family who wanted it. I never had to deal with a stranger, an upline or down line. I think it was straight commission and it was decent money for a kid who literally did nothing but put in an order and package stuff to be picked up.I

Thats sad if the screwed it up by going so much to the mlm spectrum. But for me the collector perfume bottles are pure nostalgia. I have one of that my great gram left me because a child i wanted it and she promised it to me.
The raffle Huns on FB are hilarious. Bitches are enraged someone is screwing up their chance at being a Younique millionaire. I got so tired of the insane rants I started asking them why they were involved in products that required winning sketchy fake raffles to unload. It’s like talking to a Scientologist - MLMs use all the greatest hit playbooks that cults do but with less religion. (Though Amway and Mary Kay are big on claiming they are Christian companies - because churches are great places to recruit! Mormon communities are lousy with MLM’s their tight communities make them perfect targets. LulaRoe was a Mormon abomination)

Avon is NOT a MLM. They shouldn’t be grouped with Mary Kay or Younique. Avon reps can make all their money selling product, not trying to recruit downlines, so they are legit. Just wanted to be clear. Avon deserves credit for not going down that route.
 

VanDerLubbe

kiwifarms.net
Years ago an acquaintance from college asked me out of the blue to hang out. Out of politeness I did. My first suspicion was when he asked me what I did for work and then I asked him. He responded that he doesn't want to live the 9-5 job life with a boss and wants to be an entrepreneur. Finally after a few hours of hanging out he whipped out a laptop and said remember what I was saying about being your own boss? He showed me this 5-10 minute video about some stupid mlm. I think it was the one where people hold up the signs "You should be here". I politely declined but out of curiosity I asked him how much he was making a month. He claimed he makes anywhere from 200-2000 a month but I could tell from the sadness in his eyes when he said it that it wasn't true. After the guiltiness wore off I suddenly felt very angry that 3 hours of my time had been wasted on an overly long sales pitch.

No offense to anyone here if you've fallen into one of these but I think the people who join these are gullible 'tards with no morals who are willing to exploit their friendships for personal gain.

Random fact: The guy who murdered his wife and two kids and put his two kids bodies in oil tankers, his wife was a mlm junkie.
 
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tasty murder burger

If moths had eyes, would they be happier?
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In about 2015/16 I was added to a secret makeup group owned by someone I didn't know, it was a Younique group but had a bit of momentum and a lot of discussion was around makeup tips, sales, deals etc. Also a lot of MLM pushing by other members.

It was obvious I was added as part of a competition as the group seemed to have competitions and games on every other day. I ignored it mostly but as a makeup novice I went on it to see if anyone had posted if retailers had special offers on etc. I entered ONE raffle because it was £2 entry and a very hefty cash prize, with second place being a set of Poonique makeup which at the time I assume was probably okay, but not worth the retail price.

That was enough for me. There was so many arguments and dramas for that ONE raffle when there was a raffle around about three times a day. It was strictly no refunds but one girl had asked for a number and someone else had the same one as her. She wasn't included in the raffle but wasn't allowed her money back. All the hunbots went nuts at this girl for wanting back her money that didn't even go towards the raffle. It was fucking nuts. I had screenshots at the time but unfortunately I've went through a couple of phones since then.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
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Years ago an acquaintance from college asked me out of the blue to hang out. Out of politeness I did. My first suspicion was when he asked me what I did for work and then I asked him. He responded that he doesn't want to live the 9-5 job life with a boss and wants to be an entrepreneur. Finally after a few hours of hanging out he whipped out a laptop and said remember what I was saying about being your own boss? He showed me this 5-10 minute video about some stupid mlm. I think it was the one where people hold up the signs "You should be here". I politely declined but out of curiosity I asked him how much he was making a month. He claimed he makes anywhere from 200-2000 a month but I could tell from the sadness in his eyes when he said it that it wasn't true. After the guiltiness wore off I suddenly felt very angry that 3 hours of my time had been wasted on an overly long sales pitch.

No offense to anyone here if you've fallen into one of these but I think the people who join these are gullible 'tards with no morals who are willing to exploit there friendships for personal gain.

Random fact: The guy who murdered his wife and two kids and put his two kids bodies in oil tankers, his wife was a mlm junkie.
I have a great distaste for the type of idiots who could get suckered into a MLM. I mean the videos of some greasy idiot standing in front of a tacky McMansion with a flashy car to lure people into XXX MLM lifestyle shows you the type of people they are aiming to attract. However, there are some really evil tactics these companies use and they tend to target people who are poor and lonely. Young single moms with little children have become the new target demographic. These women tend to feel lonely, overwhelmed and isolated because they've gone from carefree young adult to struggling mom cooped up with babies all day who can't pay her bills. These MLM love bomb people just like cults do. They provide people with a sense of community, one totally contingent on towing the party line. So these women (and men) suddenly feel like they have all these new friends. They also preach that the only reason you fail is because you don't work hard enough. So all these people who drop out or bad mouth the MLM are losers who don't want financial independence!

Your friend who targeted you probably believed they were really doing you a big favor by showing you this opportunity. If people don't sign up the MLM tells them these people are lazy losers so you don't need them in your life anyway. You only want to surround yourself with other "successful" people, not loser satisfied working for someone else (#ladyboss). MLM ppl are never allowed to be honest with each other and the "fake it till you make it" BS is pushed super hard. So victims of MLM think they are the only ones who aren't making money and going into debt for the scam - and then taught that it's their fault they aren't successful because obviously they just aren't working hard enough. They probably need to buy this motivation guide or coaching session from superstar MLM double diamond award winner Shasta Smithers to figure out why they are failing when everyone else is rolling in money! If they start questioning or doubting the MLM then they are shunned by all their new "friends" and they burnt the bridges with all their old friends by using them to recruit. I mean they operate just like cults do and are just as evil.

Social media actually made MLM's explode again when they had been dying out. When people get introduced to a MLM and have concerns they will try to google "MLM name + scam" or "MLM + pyramid scheme" etc... These MLM's have rigged the SEO and have paid dozens of bloggers to write articles called "Is MLM name a scam???" and guess what all these bloggers have found after "lots of research" ? That XXX is actually a legitimate opportunity if you are willing to put in the work! These companies invest big money to ensure search results bury useful, truthful information and muddy the waters as much as possible. (Comically some MLM's will actually do posts about a competing MLM being a total scam BUT lucky for you here is this MLM that's the real deal that will totally make you rich!)

Amway and some of the older MLM's have actually made a big push for the last decade or two into China, SE Asia and India. Just check out this Amway Maylasia YT:

They hold these huge MLM cult rallies and the "top performers" are treated like movie stars. They literally put out red carpet and hire paparazzi types to run up and photograph them entering the big event to a cheering audience. All the rubes watch this and think "that will be me one day." MLM's have fine tuned ego blow job into an tacky art form.

So yeah, while MLM's certainly appeal to the ego and greed of people, they also take advantage of loneliness, desperation, people who feel like losers, people who feel lost and uncertain, depressed people, etc... They pretend to give all the answers to what you need in life if you just follow this formula. People want those easy answers and instant community and money so badly they will believe epic amounts of obvious BS and ignore reality.

Years ago an acquaintance from college asked me out of the blue to hang out. Out of politeness I did. My first suspicion was when he asked me what I did for work and then I asked him. He responded that he doesn't want to live the 9-5 job life with a boss and wants to be an entrepreneur. Finally after a few hours of hanging out he whipped out a laptop and said remember what I was saying about being your own boss? He showed me this 5-10 minute video about some stupid mlm. I think it was the one where people hold up the signs "You should be here". I politely declined but out of curiosity I asked him how much he was making a month. He claimed he makes anywhere from 200-2000 a month but I could tell from the sadness in his eyes when he said it that it wasn't true. After the guiltiness wore off I suddenly felt very angry that 3 hours of my time had been wasted on an overly long sales pitch.

No offense to anyone here if you've fallen into one of these but I think the people who join these are gullible 'tards with no morals who are willing to exploit there friendships for personal gain.

Random fact: The guy who murdered his wife and two kids and put his two kids bodies in oil tankers, his wife was a mlm junkie.
I immediately picked up on the fact Christopher Watts's wife was a MLM junkie too. She peddled a MLM called Thrive - its actually hard to find the name of the MLM she was associated with because they have tried damn hard to keep the association of print. The family had already gone through one bankruptcy and looked to be headed for another, due in no small part to Shannon trying to be a #ladyboss. When the murders happened there was a lot of media coverage due to all the videos and photos available of the family - because Shannon used her kids and Chris in a lot of her recruiting pitches. She was just returning from another "Thrive convention" the night she was killed. A convention she probably spent thousands she couldn't afford to attend. MLM's encourage people spend big and go into debt in order to show how successful they are, which Shannon certainly did. I got the idea that Shannan always thought she was really close to making it big in her MLM and if she just a few thousand more on this conference and XXX inventory to meet sales quota she would finally get to that magic level where you just sit back and get checks for $50k a month. The idea that you will build a "downline" that enables you to sit at home and get paid $50k a month for a few hours work a week is the dream they sell with complex charts showing just how easy it is to do - and how close you are getting to it.

MLM's destroy marriages all the time. Many men and women have ruined their marriages and families buying into this shit. Unfortunately, Shannan married an evil psychopath who decided to murdering her and their children was a better option than divorce. (He also had started boning a new crazy woman, which seemed to be the stick that broke the camel's back.)

Eh, I've gone on long enough, but I find cult's and MLM's really fascinating from a psychological perspective. The truly evil people are the con artist who understand how all these manipulative tactics work and either found their own MLM or look to find new ones they can hop onto and be near the very top of the pyramid.

The only people who ever make any real money on these scams are the founders and the people the people near the top of the pyramid founders recruit to get the scam going. In most cases these people have been through many MLM's and are just looking for the next one to get in on early, rake in money, then bale before it all implodes. Some of the blogs that follow MLM's scam will point out how many "top earners" or founders of MLM's have very long histories in the MLM industry. Many near the top of the pyramids will be on their 12th or 15th MLM. Some are in several at one time, or are building up the next one because they know the one they are currently in will be bust soon enough. These are the truly evil scumbags who understand exactly how the scam works, and have no issue suckering people in to bankrupt themselves and alienate everyone in their life, so that they can get rich.
 

Kiwi Lime Pie

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Young single moms with little children have become the new target demographic. These women tend to feel lonely, overwhelmed and isolated because they've gone from carefree young adult to struggling mom cooped up with babies all day who can't pay her bills.
Also a popular target is the housewife/homemaker that doesn't have a traditional job yet feels some sort of obligation to do something that brings money into the house. A long-time acquaintance of mine that I may have mentioned earlier in the thread falls into this category. Despite having a spouse that makes decent money, she once confided to me that she felt the need to do something to contribute towards the household income and please him. So, she's been involved with various MLMs on and off. She'll promote the heck out of one for some time, go quiet, and then abruptly start promoting another one. Lather rinse repeat. The sad thing is that she's not a poor, struggling individual trying to raise a family on her own while living paycheck to paycheck. She and her spouse are both college educated and far from the clueless, desperate folks MLM folks normally gravitate towards and recruit.

She peddled a MLM called Thrive - its actually hard to find the name of the MLM she was associated with because they have tried damn hard to keep the association of print.
The same aforementioned person promoted Thrive ad nauseum at one point. I think there was some sort of powdered drink mix and some sort of patch to wear on your neck that was part of this one, unless I'm mixing MLMs together (they do blend together after time). I'm willing to bet this stuff was caffeine or another stimulant to make one feel active and energetic until having an eneergy crash later in the day.

These MLM's have rigged the SEO and have paid dozens of bloggers to write articles called "Is MLM name a scam???" and guess what all these bloggers have found after "lots of research" ? That XXX is actually a legitimate opportunity if you are willing to put in the work! These companies invest big money to ensure search results bury useful, truthful information and muddy the waters as much as possible.
I had a classmate that was big on Rodin & Fields at one point and made plenty of posts of her then-teen child using the various products to control or prevent acne. Out of curiosity, I decided to look online to see if the stuff was legitimate or just another over-hyped, average at best, product. That was a big mistake. For every search result claiming R&F was the greatest thing since sliced bread, there was another claiming R&F was absolutely bad for you and imploring people to avoid it like the plague. I honestly think both the pro- and anti-MLM folks purposely flood the net with their biased, extreme propaganda just to keep average people from being able to critically evaluate these products and services in order to decide for themselves whether the items in question are good, bad, or an MLM that needs to be avoided at all costs.
 

JaneThough

Part of your world
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I don't really hold any animosity towards the people that join MLMs, mainly because they are built to be predatory and to prey on people in vulnerable situations. A lot of them go after new mothers, or people who are in low income jobs, with promises of an easy, regular income that will solve all your problems, and the worst part is the invite is coming from someone you know in your life. Of course it takes a bit of naivete on the part of the person who joins, but their friend is posting all this stuff about how incredible their life is, I don't blame them for falling for it. It's detestable that these companies can create these programs designed to just suck money out of their "consultants", rather than make money from actually selling their product.

They're also incredibly cultish. You're only told to buy a starter kit and that you'll be selling products. Then you're in, and suddenly it's not selling products you get money from, but recruiting a downline! That's not presented as the actual endgame when you first sign up. When you struggle, you're told by your upline that you're not working hard enough. When friends and family express their concerns about you being scammed, your upline calls them haters and says to ignore them because they're jealous. People come out of MLMs not just having lost all their money, but also significant family relationships. And, as the huns will remind us, it's all legal.
 

Alto

Space Doggity
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Okay so I asked a co-worker today about MLMs due to her involvement with Amway, Herbalife, etc. all kinds of scammy shit she was involved with in the past.

The response I got back was complete cultish nonsense. She was defending this shit to the very end to scary levels, and this is a reasonably intelligent person (at least at her job). She was willing to die on a hill for these peddlers and her involvement with them back in the day. It's pretty scary how they suck you in like that. She didn't believe me when I started talking about Vemma and how it was a pyramid scheme. She said that pyramid schemes/MLMs aren't evil. Then when I showed her the article talking about how the FTC shut it down for literally being a pyramid scheme, she just openly ignored it.

Like....dude. What drugs do they feed these poor people?
 

JaneThough

Part of your world
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Okay so I asked a co-worker today about MLMs due to her involvement with Amway, Herbalife, etc. all kinds of scammy shit she was involved with in the past.

The response I got back was complete cultish nonsense. She was defending this shit to the very end to scary levels, and this is a reasonably intelligent person (at least at her job). She was willing to die on a hill for these peddlers and her involvement with them back in the day. It's pretty scary how they suck you in like that. She didn't believe me when I started talking about Vemma and how it was a pyramid scheme. She said that pyramid schemes/MLMs aren't evil. Then when I showed her the article talking about how the FTC shut it down for literally being a pyramid scheme, she just openly ignored it.

Like....dude. What drugs do they feed these poor people?
I think it comes down to pride too. No one wants to admit they've been scammed. It's what keeps a lot of those who were silent on the matter.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
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Okay so I asked a co-worker today about MLMs due to her involvement with Amway, Herbalife, etc. all kinds of scammy shit she was involved with in the past.

The response I got back was complete cultish nonsense. She was defending this shit to the very end to scary levels, and this is a reasonably intelligent person (at least at her job). She was willing to die on a hill for these peddlers and her involvement with them back in the day. It's pretty scary how they suck you in like that. She didn't believe me when I started talking about Vemma and how it was a pyramid scheme. She said that pyramid schemes/MLMs aren't evil. Then when I showed her the article talking about how the FTC shut it down for literally being a pyramid scheme, she just openly ignored it.

Like....dude. What drugs do they feed these poor people?
False Hopes and dreams, very addictive. MLM’s use all the same tactics as cults, there’s really very little difference. Whereas cults are selling the false hope of enlightenment/salvation, the false hope sold by fMLMs is getting rich quick.

And @JaneThough is right, even after they leave many will never admit or see it was all a scam either due to pride or just wanting to hold on to the hope it could work for them one day.
 

JaneThough

Part of your world
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False Hopes and dreams, very addictive. MLM’s use all the same tactics as cults, there’s really very little difference. Whereas cults are selling the false hope of enlightenment/salvation, the false hope sold by fMLMs is getting rich quick.

And @JaneThough is right, even after they leave many will never admit or see it was all a scam either due to pride or just wanting to hold on to the hope it could work for them one day.
Everyone "knows someone who knows someone" who is a millionaire from some MLM, but don't realize that that someone doesn't actually likely exist. So I agree they are holding out hope, and believe it is possible, if only they had their family/friends support, or more money to invest, or more time to work it, etc etc etc. The issue is never the MLM, it's them, as told to them by the MLM. So there's a lot of shame in failing.
 
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In my opinion people in these schemes are generally comparable to people that fall for 419 scams. Unless old and demented they tend to be on the selfish/sociopathic side of emotional development, somewhat lazy, "positive" outwardly and looking to make a quick buck.

I don't really pity them. I've been invited to ONE true attempt at recruiting in one of the condo-associations I was a member off and they tried to get me drunk and be all nice to me only to then bring up their mlm shit. After a shorter discussion and my declining they were never better than cordial to me and often times obstructive/cold.

These two were at a "higher" level of the pyramid though.
I have very little contact with ordinary or say lower-middle class people who are not streetwise. So there may be truly those that think they are "starting a business" and "want to work hard" not understanding the system. But I'd say they are rare.

Years ago an acquaintance from college asked me out of the blue to hang out. Out of politeness I did. My first suspicion was when he asked me what I did for work and then I asked him. He responded that he doesn't want to live the 9-5 job life with a boss and wants to be an entrepreneur. Finally after a few hours of hanging out he whipped out a laptop and said remember what I was saying about being your own boss? He showed me this 5-10 minute video about some stupid mlm. I think it was the one where people hold up the signs "You should be here". I politely declined but out of curiosity I asked him how much he was making a month. He claimed he makes anywhere from 200-2000 a month but I could tell from the sadness in his eyes when he said it that it wasn't true. After the guiltiness wore off I suddenly felt very angry that 3 hours of my time had been wasted on an overly long sales pitch.

No offense to anyone here if you've fallen into one of these but I think the people who join these are gullible 'tards with no morals who are willing to exploit their friendships for personal gain.

Random fact: The guy who murdered his wife and two kids and put his two kids bodies in oil tankers, his wife was a mlm junkie.

That makes me so sad. I'm *so* for old friends contacting me / me contacting them, I'm up for re-kindling relationships. Heck, one of my faults is I often do not maintain them very well (even when I was a happier dude) because I would jump from project to project.

But to, after several hours of socializing with this person, have to figure out it was all an MLM thing...god I'd want to put that friend out of his misery right then and there like a wounded dog or something. How terribly depressing. I'd rather have him or her just ask me for money or a favour than this. Much *rather*.
 
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MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
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Everyone "knows someone who knows someone" who is a millionaire from some MLM, but don't realize that that someone doesn't actually likely exist. So I agree they are holding out hope, and believe it is possible, if only they had their family/friends support, or more money to invest, or more time to work it, etc etc etc. The issue is never the MLM, it's them, as told to them by the MLM. So there's a lot of shame in failing.
Well, sadly, most of America “knows” Betty DeVos now thanks to Trump appointing her Education Secretary. She IS a multi-millionaire due to the DeVos family inventing the first MLM scam by founding Amway. The DeVos family are some of the very few ppl who got filthy rich by scamming millions of others. It’s fucking depressing that bitch is in charge of education. It only behooves the DeVos family to keep people as stupid and bad at math as possible.
 

Cosmos

Soldier of Love and Bitching on the Internet
Supervisor
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834864


As a Catholic this really pisses me off. Joining a shitty MLM cult and hawking weight loss products is miles away from the tenants of Christianity. This reeks of that "prosperity gospel" bullshit, where your spiritual goodness is tied to your material wealth.

Also, reminder that Jesus literally threw hands against merchants who were commercializing the temple and exploiting the poor.

834859
 

Heinrich Himmler

Reichsführer-ᛋᛋ und Chef der Kiwi Polizei
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As a Catholic this really pisses me off. Joining a shitty MLM cult and hawking weight loss products is miles away from the tenants of Christianity.
It's well known that MLMs appeal to religious people, especially Christian.
It's jarring that if you analize them, MLMs practices make sure you hit up all the Seven Deadly Sins - Greed and Env first and foremost.
 
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