Nature vs. Nurture -

[Cosmos]

The whole nature vs. nurture debate has always fascinated me. For those who aren't familiar with it, it basically asks whether nature (innate traits, genetics, etc) or nurture (environment, experiences, etc) is more influential in shaping who a person is.

Let's take Chris, for example. Chris' autism profoundly influenced him nature-wise when he was growing up. However, he also had two aging parents who caved into his every demand and spoiled him rotten. He probably would have become a much different person had his parents not indulged him so much. Then again, maybe he's always been hardwired to be petulant and, well, Chris-like. So in this case, which factor do you think is more important? And do you think your conclusion applies to other lolcows?

I'm not trying to sound like a pseudo-intellectual or anything but I just think that lolcows and their mentalities are fascinating. Any psychologist would have a field day with one.

 

[SpessCaptain]

Both. But I think its more neglect or ignorance that their caretakers give them at young ages than nuture.

 

[Pine Tar]

I'd lean more towards nurture. You couldn't control Chris's autism or Jace's schizophrenia. But, you could control Borb being incredibly overindulgent/neglectful and Gail trying to heal Jace with the powers of Jesus instead of, you know, psychiatry.

 

[KingofManga420]

I'd say with most cows its almost exclusively nurture.

I barely know shit about GK but iirc he's the only one thats unanimously born that way. Vade too maybe but I wouldn't know.

Either way these people have problems and nothing has ever been done to help them.

 

[TheAmazingAxolotl]

It's a little of both. Nature does also imply that their own instincts and/or mental condition assists in the way they live their lives, and then nurturing does of course bring forward the worse aspects of that condition. Look at Jace for instance: he's schizophrenic, and it was only made worse by his mother's Christian fundamentalism and the coddling of the Internet.

Chris is likewise the same way: he was born in an already vulnerable state, his parents' neglect in his first few years caused more damage, and over the years with the help of the Internet he evolved into this strange autistic manchild with an obsession over Sonic's arm colour. His mother was no help either. Chris's biggest influence was of course the nurturing from his own autism.

 

[AppleChrisp]

Both influence how we turn out, but "nurture" is more important.
Due to the plasticity of the brain, your experiences can change the way your brain develops. Sure, you might have some biological predispositions, but ultimately experiences and perceptions are what mold us into who we are.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

I would say nurture. Not all people with mental disabilities are "lolcows", and we all have aspects of ourselves that are under control in some people, but not in others.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

Nurture, I'd say. Most lolcows were fucked up somewhere during their upbringing, and usually you can trace it to crazy, neglectful or smothering parents. Being a lolcow is in itself a nurturing factor in many cases - you can often see a lolcow progress further down the path of madness after they become famous. Chris, for instance, started out as a dorky but slightly pompous doofus and has become an insane sociopath who bellows about trolls and blue arms to anyone who'll listen.

 

[Cosmos]

Nurture, I'd say. Most lolcows were fucked up somewhere during their upbringing, and usually you can trace it to crazy, neglectful or smothering parents. Being a lolcow is in itself a nurturing factor in many cases - you can often see a lolcow progress further down the path of madness after they become famous. Chris, for instance, started out as a dorky but slightly pompous doofus and has become an insane sociopath who bellows about trolls and blue arms to anyone who'll listen.

Yeah, after thinking it over, I'd have to say that nurture plays a larger role than nature. Nature still impacts things, sure, but the vast majority of lolcows seem to have parents that either indulge or ignore their behavior. And, as you said, most of them start getting crazier and crazier the more attention they're given online.

Lolcows and their mentalities are so fascinating. I'd love to see a book written on lolcow psychology, haha.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

I hope it's more nurture than nature, because then it's their own damned fault ("Just stop posting, you putz!") and there's a hope they could grow out of it.

 

[AnOminous]

Yeah, after thinking it over, I'd have to say that nurture plays a larger role than nature.

I think it's the case with Chris, for instance. Obviously, even if he'd had treatment as a child, he'd still be autistic, but he might have been taught coping mechanisms for how to act more normally. Instead, his crazy behavior was reinforced and now he's reaping the penalties for this kind of behavior.

Autistic people can learn to act well enough to get by, but it doesn't come naturally. It takes some effort. Chris was shielded from ever having to put forth the effort, and even taught basically that the problem was the world's, not his.

 

[Segue]

I think nature definitely plays a part in making a lolcow what they are, but I nuture undeniably plays a bigger role. As others have said, Chris is a very good example of how improper care can fuck up an autistic person for life. Now obviously you can't change the fact he has autism, he never got the treatment he needed to understand acceptable behavior, empathy, coping and all that. Needless to say, you can shove most of the blame on Borb for letting him live like a child eternally.

Other things are a bit tricky though. Even if Chris got proper treatment I'm not quite sure if he would be much smarter and clueless or less egocentric than the Chris we have now. I've met lots of Autistics and Asperger people who seem to be pretty well adjusted to society but can still come across as stuck up or straight up silly. He probably wouldn't go around freaking about blarms, hex baux but I'm wondering if he'd still be as obsessive and fanboyish about stuff like that.

 

[Cosmos]

I think nature definitely plays a part in making a lolcow what they are, but I nuture undeniably plays a bigger role. As others have said, Chris is a very good example of how improper care can fuck up an autistic person for life. Now obviously you can't change the fact he has autism, he never got the treatment he needed to understand acceptable behavior, empathy, coping and all that. Needless to say, you can shove most of the blame on Borb for letting him live like a child eternally.

Other things are a bit tricky though. Even if Chris got proper treatment I'm not quite sure if he would be much smarter and clueless or less egocentric than the Chris we have now. I've met lots of Autistics and Asperger people who seem to be pretty well adjusted to society but can still come across as stuck up or straight up silly. He probably wouldn't go around freaking about [literally too autistic to type blue arms], hex baux but I'm wondering if he'd still be as obsessive and fanboyish about stuff like that.

At the very least, I think he'd have some concept of that not being socially acceptable behavior. Like, for example, he'd probably still be upset about the blue arms, and he'd still be a huge fanboy, but if Borb had actually attempted to curb his behavior and at least tried to get him to not be so obsessive, he probably wouldn't have turned to defacing Sonic Boom merchandise. Chris actually seems to be rather high-functioning. He's weird and doesn't speak/write too good, but it's not like he can't function on a basic human level. Had he not been coddled and enabled so much, and had his parents actually gotten him treatment, he might've even been able to hold down a job and have his own life.

That's why I think Chris is so tragic, honestly. His autism didn't necessarily have to be the social death sentence that it's become.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Going from personal experience here, I'm going to have to say both. Like Chris, I was raised in a neighborhood that had very few kids around my age, and spent most of my time alone (albeit for different reasons). it's not easy going through life when ore of your parents is a control freak, and to be frank, it really hurts your development in the long run. More so considering that Chris (as well other lolcows like him) still act like this and show no signs of improving themselves for the better anytime soon, if at all.

 

[fuzzypickles]

Seeing as people are born with a clean slate, I would say that nurture plays a bigger role than nature in the development of a lolcow. People who really shouldn't be allowed to reproduce believe that coddling and enabling bad behavior in their children, particularly autistic children, is better than proper discipline, which they think would "hurt their snowflake's feelings" or other crap like that. As a result, you end up with individuals such as Chris, who believe the world should revolve completely around them.

 

[Yog-Spergoth]

I think it's safe to say that most lolcows are sort-of a perfect storm of both nature and nurture. Chris's biology predisposed him to acting differently, and Borb pushed that predisposition into full-on egocentricism. It's always difficult to tell which one affects a person more.

Though, there are also lolcows like Holden who don't appear to have any legitimate medical disorders other than being shoes-on-head insane. Maybe it's more arrogance, and a stubborn insistence that they're right, mixed with a lack of introspection that's to blame?

 

[wheat pasta]

I think a lot of people are lolcow material, not just on this forum but in general. A lot of it's just to do with how they handle themselves and their eccentricities, so yeah.. I'd say nurture as well.
Shit, I could probably be a 'cow if I didn't know better.

 

[Philosophy Zombie]

Honestly I don't even think it's a mental condition that makes the "nature" part of being a lolcow. It's a lack of introspection. Being able to look at yourself and say, "I'm a weirdo, aren't I?" is invaluable because it enables you to change your own behavior, or at least be able to laugh at it. Lolcows are blinded to this by egotism or obliviousness. Self-awareness can be acquired (as we see with David Gonterman et al), but it's an often slow and difficult process that comes more naturally to some people than others.

Somebody like Chris, who seems almost immune to that kind of reflection, might still be "eccentric" even if he didn't have apathetic and smothering grandparents for parents. I can easily see him still being obsessive and fanboyish, clueless about women, and perhaps a little off-putting to some people. But he would probably have friends and a job of some sort. He certainly wouldn't live in complete squalor, forced to spoon with his elderly mother, and known around the world for his antics.

 

[bertram's]

Personal action is a more important factor than nature or nurture when it comes to deciding whether a person becomes a lolcow or not. Natural conditions such as autism can impact how a person starts off in life and may even limit their capacities, but given that most people have the sentience to make decisions, they aren't the only cause. Nurture is even more problematic of a hypothetical cause because people can grow up in dysfunctional households or no household at all, and still achieve some level of personal success. For example, John Elder Robinson, the autistic author of Look Me In the Eye was raised by a mother who slowly went insane and an alcoholic father who would regularly slam his younger brother into the wall so hard it made a dent, but he still managed to get a job in a toy company, get married twice, raise his son, and go to Boston for transcranial magnetic syndrome, an experimental therapy involving magnetic waves to cure his inability to experience emotions like neurotypicals.

If you look closely enough, you'll find that at the root of most lolcows is a personal choice or choices. For example, Autphag's choice to try to finger a girl as a child led his mother to lock him inside the house, leading to him browsing white-supremacist and Juche sites and becoming the lolcow we all know today. His initial choice limited his future opportunities, which in turn caused him to blame the Jewish-Neurotypical-Reptilian conspiracy, leading to further derangement.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

I think it's often a mixture of both, but I definitely lean more towards the nurture explanation. A lot of people we recognize as lolcows are people who were not nurtured properly during their formative years, the result is a kind of arrested development which prevents them from recognizing their bizarre behavior for what it is.

I don't think someone like Chris could ever be completely normal, but he would almost certainly have been better off if he was raised in an environment which understood his needs, and accommodated them in a healthy way.