War Navy commander orders SEALs to shape up - "What is this Mickey Mouse shit?!"

mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
I thought they only wore beards to make the kebab allies and civilians more trusting of them. There shouldn't be any reason for the facial hair when they are stationed in the States.
Every regulation has a waiver, and spec ops gets them often. Regulations are set by the flag level officer to which a unit reports too. Service wide "general orders" deal with the very broad shit. Stuff like uniform regulations are set at a slightly lower level. Usually at the Division level. Why? Well for one thing Divisions have to wear different patches to distinguish them from other divisions. So the Division Commander has the authority to to say what is required for uniform standards of dress. This has led to divisions like the 101st Airborne (my alma mater) to set their own standards in things like PT Uniforms. the 101 does not wear the standard issue PT uniform, and this is done at the Division commanders directive. Which also allows for the 101 to wear brigade unit insignia on the Helmet, also something that is not Army Standard.

So long story short, the SEALs and other spec ops were allowed to do their own thing with facial hair because their general officer allowed them too.
 

millais

The Yellow Rose of Victoria, Texas
kiwifarms.net
Every regulation has a waiver, and spec ops gets them often. Regulations are set by the flag level officer to which a unit reports too. Service wide "general orders" deal with the very broad shit. Stuff like uniform regulations are set at a slightly lower level. Usually at the Division level. Why? Well for one thing Divisions have to wear different patches to distinguish them from other divisions. So the Division Commander has the authority to to say what is required for uniform standards of dress. This has led to divisions like the 101st Airborne (my alma mater) to set their own standards in things like PT Uniforms. the 101 does not wear the standard issue PT uniform, and this is done at the Division commanders directive. Which also allows for the 101 to wear brigade unit insignia on the Helmet, also something that is not Army Standard.

So long story short, the SEALs and other spec ops were allowed to do their own thing with facial hair because their general officer allowed them too.
So maybe the facial hair has become an an esprit-de-corps or culture/tradition building thing for them?
 

mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
So maybe the facial hair has become an an esprit-de-corps or culture/tradition building thing for them?
Would not doubt that at all. And normally this would not be a problem. The 101st wearing brigade patches on their helmets (Like the Spade from band of brothers) is for reasons of tradition and esprit de corps. It's something that sets them apart from other army units, and it hearkens back to the time when they got dropped behind enemy lines and needed a way to bring their formations together quickly. No other Army unit does it, and today it serves no other purpose then tradition and esprit de corps. *edit* figured I should add, the 101st PT uniform is a dark blue shirt with the Unit Flag on the breast. A Red and Blue bicoloured flag with the unit crest on it. The colors are from the medieval heraldry of the Belgian city of Bastogne.

So yeah, units frequently do play with the rules in the interest of esprit de corps and tradition.


But it's also not a tradition meant to separate the 101 from the rest of the Army either. Which the beards do, and in the case of SEALs seems to be less a statement of esprit de corps and more "rules are beneath us". And that is a problem.
 
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Freedom Fries

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We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
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JosephStalin

Vozhd
True & Honest Fan
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HAH! Fuck your beards! Fucking cool-guy faggots.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/08/23/for-seals-its-back-to-regulation-haircuts-and-uniform-inspections/



This is funny, but will accomplish little. Unit culture isn't changed from above.

They need to disband these assholes for a couple months every year, and embed them individually into the fleets as lower enlisted non-rates (or whatever the Navy calls them). Make them spend time away from each other, and with normal faggots doing normal gay shit.

Edit: I didn't care for the filtering of R E T A R D, so I replaced it with "faggot" and "gay".
Understand the sentiment, but tossing the SEALs back into the fleet for a couple of months would have a pronounced effect on readiness and mission execution. During that couple of months, some of these men could lose their currency/qualification in certain areas and would need time to get current or re-qualify once back. Mission planning and execution could very well be affected due to loss or shortage of qualified SEALS. Missions not accomplished because SEALS are out in the fleet - commands being supported will scream bloody murder.

My counter would be to make sure the leaders at all levels are doing their job as leaders. There are no bad units, just bad leaders. Ensure standards are met, but trust the people to get the mission accomplished. You deal with problems by exception. That was my approach as a leader/commander.
 
N

NN 401

Guest
kiwifarms.net
So the snake eaters have to go back to remembering they're part of the military and not saving the world by themselves?

Oh noes, say it isn't so.

They also have to go back to remembering that while civilians are increasingly out of touch with their servicemen all military personnel are ultimately accountable to the people who sign their checks.

And those stupid Johnny Jihadi beards they rock make them all look like a bunch of fucking lumberjacks.... and then the dip. Bleh.

As stupid as this sounds shit like letting grooming standards lapse has almost always been correlated with a drop in unit ethics dating all the way back to Vietnam.
If our WW2 handsome ass grand pappys could stay clean shaven so can the modern soldier.

There are apparently also larger issues with the Navy as a whole regarding the upper Enlisted having an inordinate amount of power. I don’t have direct experience with the Navy so I can’t say for certain. However, that shit that went down with the Seal who murdered a POW, Chief Gallagher? Apparently, the guys that dropped the dime on him were men he had trained during BUDS.

So much no bueno with that!
 

Echo_Ender

Doggo
kiwifarms.net
My favorite thing in that article was all the whiter-than-white guys in Red Team that were LARPing as Native American warriors, to the point of carrying hatchets on missions and getting feather tatoos.

I get that they try to create a unit culture to bond over, but that's just sad.


I also like the two guys arguing over who killed Bin Laden, when the guy who actually shot him wants to remain anonymous as "Red Lead", so Islamists won't Aloha Snackbar him or his friends/family.

And to top it off, he said in an anonymous interview that it wasn't even that impressive. Something along the lines of "This guy needed to die, so we did our job and took him out. But it wasn't some dramatic shootout or anything. When it came down to it, it was just shooting a confused, half-asleep, unarmed guy in his pajamas. It's something that needed done, but not something to brag about"
 

Capsaicin Addict

Spooky skeleton heat!
kiwifarms.net
At least this one didn't lie about punching Jesse Ventura in the face. How much of a goon do you have to be to lie about hitting a 60-year-old man?
I dunno, but it did Scruff Face no favors to keep suing Kyle's estate and widow after the guy died. The way I heard it, his name is mud in military circles. He won his case initially, then it got overturned, and they finally settled out of court.
And to top it off, he said in an anonymous interview that it wasn't even that impressive. Something along the lines of "This guy needed to die, so we did our job and took him out. But it wasn't some dramatic shootout or anything. When it came down to it, it was just shooting a confused, half-asleep, unarmed guy in his pajamas. It's something that needed done, but not something to brag about"
And that's the kind of mentality you want. Don't brag about it, don't linger on it, just get the mission done and move on.

There was a Green Beret who ran an interesting blog, 'Weaponsman', about guns and the military, Kevin O'Brien. Passed away a couple years ago, sadly, but one of his fans made a point to archive his blog. The subtitle of his blog was 'Quiet Professionals, Noisy Machinery'.

You want quiet professionals in that line of work.
 

TerminalTryHard

kiwifarms.net
My favorite thing in that article was all the whiter-than-white guys in Red Team that were LARPing as Native American warriors, to the point of carrying hatchets on missions and getting feather tatoos.

I get that they try to create a unit culture to bond over, but that's just sad.


I also like the two guys arguing over who killed Bin Laden, when the guy who actually shot him wants to remain anonymous as "Red Lead", so Islamists won't Aloha Snackbar him or his friends/family.

And to top it off, he said in an anonymous interview that it wasn't even that impressive. Something along the lines of "This guy needed to die, so we did our job and took him out. But it wasn't some dramatic shootout or anything. When it came down to it, it was just shooting a confused, half-asleep, unarmed guy in his pajamas. It's something that needed done, but not something to brag about"
Native American references are very common in the Army and SOF in general, 1SFC's unit patch is an arrow Head actually. As well as the 82nd which has an infantry battalion called Geronimo with all it's companies also sporting NA themed names Apache company, Blackfoot company and commanchee company. If anything it was more common back in the day especially ww2. With paratroopers going into battle in full face paint and mohawks.
1241811768.jpg


A lot of this having to do with SOF units (and the army in general) still using battle tactics copied from NA or developed to counter NA.

Tomahawks still get carried by a lot of units with the last tomahawk kill being by a Ranger in 2005. The Rangers who still follow Robert's rules of ranging which were written during the French Indian war.

The SEALs arguing about whole killed Bin Laden is its own thing, go look up Rob O'neil the dude is a borderline cow in how much he has tried to tard cum his claim to have killed UBL. To point it got him kicked off SEAL team 6, sued by the US government for trying sell the movie rights to the operation, and is now shocked his family is getting death threats from jihadis and blames the Navy and US government for it.
 

Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
kiwifarms.net
Tomahawks are thing and authorized. For CQB. I recently purchased one as a gift for an active duty friend.
 

Echo_Ender

Doggo
kiwifarms.net
Tomahawks are thing and authorized. For CQB. I recently purchased one as a gift for an active duty friend.
I know a lot of Ranger and Green Beret units carry Tomahawks. But those are approved for use, especially because they can be used in fieldcraft (Chopping firewood, building shelter/cover) if needed.

They apparently WEREN'T authorized for this Seal Team, though. It was violating their equipment protocols to seem cool and showy-offy.
 
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