Nefertiti "Whitewashing" - WE WUZ KANGZ AND SHEEIT

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AnOminous

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Have to play devil's advocate for a second, sorry. It's important to remember that the idea of being Egyptian overruled racial concerns--we have the Nubian pharaohs of the 25th Dynasty, for example Taharqa, being portrayed as Egyptians in contrast to other darker, foreign figures. Ditto Roman emperors, who were probably lighter-skinned than the standard Egyptian populace (if only because they didn't spend as much time in the fields), being depicted as Egyptian pharaohs. If Nefertiti HAD been of Nubian origin, the bust would still have shown her with more of the classical Egyptian features, since nationality trumped race in their minds. (Within the deviations of the Amarna art style, which was fucking weird for the period.) They were, in fact, filthy reactionary anti-globalist nationalist scum, with the desert as their border wall.
Good point, but DNA kind of trumps any other arguments we have one way or the other. We now actually know for sure.
 
R

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Am I the only one who immediately thought that she looked Turkish? I thought this was kind of odd but then I remembered Egypt was a Mediterranean nation and they had all different colored skin tones because everyone conquered everyone else and everyone fucked everyone else.
It was proven a little while back through DNA that ancient Egyptians were descendants of Mesopotamians (middle easterners) who moved into the area back during the Neolithic period, towards the end of the last ice age due to climate changes, drove off what few blacks were in the Nile area and had mixed babies with the remaining ones.

Of course don't tell that to black supremacists though, who believe that the world population was jet black until mutant alien white people from space happened around the 1700's A.D., enslaved them all and created an alternate history to cover all of this up.

Yeah they actually believe that.
 

Syaoran Li

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I never understood the whole "We Wuz Kangz" argument and why so many of the people who fall for that bullshit so desperately cling to Egypt, which had more in common with the Middle East and the Mediterranean world than with Sub-Saharan Africa.

There's evidence of actual great civilizations in Africa that actually were black, such as Timbuktu and The Great Zimbabwe and yet these Afrocentrists and Black Nationalists try to cling to Egypt instead.

I mean, I know why they do it. Ancient Egyptian culture is ingrained into our pop culture through works such as the Book of Exodus and even stuff like Indiana Jones and The Mummy films, while the actual documented black civilizations are very obscure and had nowhere near the amount of surviving cultural impact compared to Egypt. Combine that with plain old-fashioned ignorance and anti-intellectualism and you get all this unwarranted salt over Nefertiti.

Even if the Ancient Egyptians were proven to be black, the majority of African-Americans would not be the descendants of Egyptian royalty or priesthood, but instead of common peasants (and considering most black Americans are descended from slaves imported from the West African coast, they wouldn't even be remotely Egyptian to begin with).

I'm white and my ancestry can be traced to Ireland, Scotland, Italy, and Germany. All of those countries have rich cultures and interesting histories that can be traced back to the Iron Age at the very least.

Yet I don't claim to be the inheritor of the Roman Empire, the Teutonic Knights, or the Celtic warriors of old. Why? Because my ancestors were most likely common poor folk who were not much different than myself or anyone else really.

The "We Wuz Kangz" crowd who are so obsessed with Ancient Egypt are no different than White Nationalists sperging about Spartans, Romans, Vikings, Templars, and other "Aryan" archetypes, clinging to a shallow pop culture depiction of these cultures while failing to understand their actual histories.

Why does ancestry and history really matter all that much? Define your legacy through your own actions and achievements. not those of your long-dead forefathers.
 

OfflineCyberBully

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I never understood the whole "We Wuz Kangz" argument and why so many of the people who fall for that bullshit so desperately cling to Egypt, which had more in common with the Middle East and the Mediterranean world than with Sub-Saharan Africa.

There's evidence of actual great civilizations in Africa that actually were black, such as Timbuktu and The Great Zimbabwe and yet these Afrocentrists and Black Nationalists try to cling to Egypt instead.

I mean, I know why they do it. Ancient Egyptian culture is ingrained into our pop culture through works such as the Book of Exodus and even stuff like Indiana Jones and The Mummy films, while the actual documented black civilizations are very obscure and had nowhere near the amount of surviving cultural impact compared to Egypt. Combine that with plain old-fashioned ignorance and anti-intellectualism and you get all this unwarranted salt over Nefertiti.

Even if the Ancient Egyptians were proven to be black, the majority of African-Americans would not be the descendants of Egyptian royalty or priesthood, but instead of common peasants (and considering most black Americans are descended from slaves imported from the West African coast, they wouldn't even be remotely Egyptian to begin with).

I'm white and my ancestry can be traced to Ireland, Scotland, Italy, and Germany. All of those countries have rich cultures and interesting histories that can be traced back to the Iron Age at the very least.

Yet I don't claim to be the inheritor of the Roman Empire, the Teutonic Knights, or the Celtic warriors of old. Why? Because my ancestors were most likely common poor folk who were not much different than myself or anyone else really.

The "We Wuz Kangz" crowd who are so obsessed with Ancient Egypt are no different than White Nationalists sperging about Spartans, Romans, Vikings, Templars, and other "Aryan" archetypes, clinging to a shallow pop culture depiction of these cultures while failing to understand their actual histories.

Why does ancestry and history really matter all that much? Define your legacy through your own actions and achievements. not those of your long-dead forefathers.
This exactly. I can't lay claim to any of the deeds, good or ill, my direct ancestors achieved or committed from before I was born. Anyone looking for me to mea culpa over anything that happened before I was born is barking up the wrong tree. The fact that any of us are here at all is amazing in and of itself, given the harsh environment our ancient forebears faced. Great houses and great civilizations rise and fall. But we, the descendants of the slaves, serfs, and peasants who propped up those houses and civilizations remain.

It's the same level of 'tism as those who LARP around claiming to be modern-day Vikings, Ninja, Samurai, or whatever other 'cool' group they can glom onto in order to feel a sense of identity and self-worth.
 

Viridian

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Absolutely. The DNA studies should, in a sane world, be putting this kangz nonsense to rest. Yet here we are, and there Twitter goes.
The problem is the "WE WUZ KANGZ" crowd aren't sane. They see those DNA test results as obviously falsified by the evil all-encompassing conspiracy comprised of whites/Jews/Muslims/whoever they don't like today to deny the allmighty greatness and sci-fi technology of the totally black Egyptian civilization. It's pathetic.
 

Slowboat to China

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The problem is the "WE WUZ KANGZ" crowd aren't sane. They see those DNA test results as obviously falsified by the evil all-encompassing conspiracy comprised of whites/Jews/Muslims/whoever they don't like today to deny the allmighty greatness and sci-fi technology of the totally black Egyptian civilization. It's pathetic.
It's certainly sad. On one level, I have a little sympathy for some of the kangz crowd, especially the young ones. Even those of us evil white folk who don't rest on the achievements of our ancestors still have something from the Old World, old family legends or what have you; the descendants of the slaves don't necessarily have that. I think it's natural to want to know where your family came from.

Unfortunately, what should be leading to a revival of interest in the Yoruba culture (where's my Igbo Studies Department?) has instead led to this weird obsession with a mythical form of Egypt, and--dare I say it--cultural appropriation. And when the facts fail to line up with the imagination, you get ridiculous conspiracy theories and doubling down on errors. You get Afrocentrism, Black Israelites, and all these eejits whining on Twitter because the reconstruction doesn't look like their fanfic. At which point my sympathy has officially run out.

And the idea's gotten pretty deep into culture. I just saw a biologist I know get salty about Nefertiti's skin color in the reconstruction--not black enough, dammit! Which depresses me, because I'd hoped the hard sciences would be immune to this nonsense.
 

Crunchy Leaf

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The Copts are an Egyptian ethnic group who are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians. Here are some:


Here's some mummy portraits from the 1st century:


They look like normal Middle Eastern people to me. There are wall paintings in the traditional Egyptian style (as opposed to the Greco-Roman one of the mummy portraits) where people, especially men, are portrayed with fairly dark skin. But it's always a color that would make sense for a Middle Eastern guy who spends most of his time outside, never one that you would see on a true black person. And the Egyptians portrayed Nubians as obviously darker than themselves.
 

Koby_Fish

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That's what generations of inbreeding does to you.

This reconstruction does not look 100% white, though, so why are people mad..? It's not like she's COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WHITEWASHED OMG RACISM.
:thinking:
to the InsocJusBLM we wuz kaingz n shiet crowd, anything colored less darkly than Yaphet Kotto is fucking whitewashing.
 

heathercho

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The Copts are an Egyptian ethnic group who are the descendants of the ancient Egyptians. Here are some:


Here's some mummy portraits from the 1st century:


They look like normal Middle Eastern people to me. There are wall paintings in the traditional Egyptian style (as opposed to the Greco-Roman one of the mummy portraits) where people, especially men, are portrayed with fairly dark skin. But it's always a color that would make sense for a Middle Eastern guy who spends most of his time outside, never one that you would see on a true black person. And the Egyptians portrayed Nubians as obviously darker than themselves.
A childhood friend of mine is a Coptic Christian Egyptian. I always knew she was Egyptian, her parents were well educated and her family had a proud history back in Egypt. She looks exactly like these people.
I never knew until I discovered the "We wuz kangz" afrocentrist stuff as an adult, that these Zulu looking motherfuckers thought they were Egyptian. Not to mention how economic niggas have crawled into North Africa on their way to Europe and got stuck there, outpopulating a lot of the true natives.

Even if you allow for Nubians in Egypt, they certainly wouldn't share DNA with the Kangz crowd in America.

But then again. I've had actual black people tell me that they were the true Samurai from Japan... and vikings. They're doing nothing to disprove their monkey brain stereotype.
 

Dysnomia

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"Here's some conjecture with zero evidence!"

"Here's proof stating otherwise."

"You're lying."


"Here's some conjecture with proof!"

"Here's proof showing you're lying."

"I don't like you. Go away."

This literally plays out like a childhood fantasy battle where the one kid keeps making up new rules just so he won't lose. You're not going to move anybody unless you've got proof which doesn't get decimated under the slightest inkling of scrutiny. But feel free to whinge about it on social media and make even bigger fools of yourselves.

Here's a good one:

View attachment 376625
Hmm...

View attachment 376627
I guess the ancient Egyptians' 3D printers were malfunctioning and didn't make an exact, perfect replica of the queen or something.

View attachment 376634
And once again it's the self-serving bias coming into play. So now supposedly Jim Jones' statement that they look similar is invalid because he wasn't present for the construction of the statue, while Lamonta's own statement is still valid even though the same logic would invalidate his own argument.
I took two sections of art history and they said that idealism was pretty much mandatory when depicting the royal family. Do you think the Pharaohs really looked like their depictions? Probably not. If you were fat, full of blemishes, missing a leg, suffering deformities ect... You were depicted the way you demanded the artists to depict you. If Nefertiti had a big ass jaw and she didn't like it you better believe the artist made that jaw look exactly as she demanded it to look. After all, these were symbols of your immortality and they knew we'd be looking at these statues far into the future.

Akhenaten just happened to revel in his weird looking self. The depictions are probably exaggerated somewhat. But snowflakes should be celebrating his body positivity. After all, they are always going on about how beautiful their disabilities are even though most are self diagnosed.

The Younger Lady is supposed to be the daughter of the Elder Lady right? The Elder Lady is thought to be Tiye. Her father was Yuya and her mother was Thuya. Yuya may be of foreign ancestry but it's not certain. It's just that his name and features are not typically Egyptian and he may have had ancestry in what is now modern day Syria. His name is spelled in heiroglyphs with a character that denotes something foreign. The mummies of Yuya and Thuya were already found. They do not look Sub-Saharan African to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuya



Looking at pictures of modern Syrians I could believe that Yuya had foreign ancestry. Thuya is thought to be native to Egypt.

Lots of hoteps like to depict Tiye as black due to her famous bust

It also helps that she was a very powerful and well respected woman. I've heard that she was as dark as the bust but I don't know if that's been confirmed. But being dark skinned doesn't automatically make you black. Plus it's made of a dark wood.

People like to say she has an afro but Egyptians at the time wouldn't have had afros even if they had Sub-Saharan origins. It's actually the remnants of a gold headdress that was looted. You can clearly see remnants of metal where the good stuff was pulled off. That's why the Nefertiti bust has that weird squiggle on the front of the headdress. The gold asp was plucked off by some thief ages ago. All that's left is whatever sort of epoxy was used to stick it on.

So what does Queen Tiye look like?

That's her real hair. Not a wig.

Here's a good look at her hair.


Soft, curly and reddish. Many mummies have this sort of hair. No afro. Was she using the ancient Egyptian version of Dark & Lovely? Not likely.

The Younger Lady was very badly damaged. So unlike Tiye her face wasn't well preserved So they did the best they could with modern technology. The tomb of these two ladies was ransacked so badly that the mummies were torn apart to get the jewels and cartouches layered in their wrappings and their body cavities. The Younger Lady was really badly torn to bits with an arm ripped off. Also it appears that her head was shaved so we can't see what kind of hair she had. But it was probably like Tiye's.
 
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