Disaster Nine American Citizens Killed in Highway Attack in Mexico -

Should the US make war against Mexican cartels?

  • Yes. We have to take revenge for American citizens killed by these bastards.

    Votes: 19 8.4%
  • No. It will be just like [Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan], except more costly and inefficient.

    Votes: 30 13.3%
  • Maybe/I don't know/I'm not sure

    Votes: 14 6.2%
  • Only if the GOOD weed isn't touched

    Votes: 24 10.7%
  • We need to just glass Mexico. The cartels run that state at this point.

    Votes: 138 61.3%

  • Total voters
    225

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
... I recant my comment.
In some parts of california they even have Pot dispenseries that arent legal and the cops arent busting them

"Mormon Drug War"--some background (disclaimer: 7 years old and VICE news, and therefore gay) video (this shit has been going on for a while) (and incidentally, the Mennonites in Canada were involved in trafficking drugs from Mexico)

The drug cartels have an inordinate amount of power and hold down physical control of parts of Mexico. The importance of this can't really be overstated. Drugs really have little to do with it as such anymore it's just a means of revenue for perpetuating statelike power within a state. Kidnapping is something that appeals as a terror tactic, and also for a profit motive.....which is one of the reasons that legalizing/decriminalizing drugs would not help the violence; the cartels, looking for other sources of income, would move on to kidnapping and people trafficking and other shit. And, fighting over a smaller piece of the pie, the violence would be WORSE! Indiscriminate violence like this is generally bad for business though especially on gringos so I would look for a deeper story than is generally being portrayed as to why these Mormons are involved. It would not be a good look for Obrador's still-new administration to allow carto blanco (so to say) to the gringos to fuck shit up south of the border. Obrador's drug policy is shit because it is all about centralization, which is to say making corruption easier, instead of having the Army, Navy, FJP, etc all quasi-independently undertaking their own investigations which was still a shit-show but gathering eggs into one basket is asking for the fox to guard it.
Oil, Human Trafficking, Narcos, and Cash transfers from El-Norte are the biggest sources of foreign capital into the Mexican economy. They dwarf everything. The Cartels have a hand in all of the above
 

mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
Sure they would come back, but a punitive expedition where the US army goes door to do looking cartel members and the black helicopters and swooping in for snatch and grabs over a 6 month period would probably put the fear of god into them for the next decade or so. Ultimately the cartels are in it for the money and having tanks rolling through town while uniformed soldiers wearing sunglasses and carrying briefcases if US dollars offering to pay cash up front for anyone willing to say where the cartel safehouse is in town, while green berets raid your villa and AC-130s use your motor pool of black suburbans and BMW roadsters for target practice... is not good for business.
 

repentance

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Even if you legalize all drugs, it won't hurt the Cartel. Drugs are not the only way they can make money. Slavery, (legalize slavery! /s), pure militant murders and taking over. In regards to drug if you legalize it, they will just offer cheaper variations that will be more dangerous and most idiots will buy it in the same manner in America people buy cheaper products despite them being dog crap quality.
The cartels will adapt just like the mafia adapted when Prohibition ended.
 

Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
kiwifarms.net
Meanwhile you’ve got Americans everywhere saying “How could this happen!” before pausing to do a line of cocaine.
Have anyone of you going "AMERICA FUCK YEAH 2ND MEXICAN WAR NOW" been in any non tourista part of Mexico for any length of time? The Mexicans would never put up with US soldiers traipsing around their country even to root out cartels and certainly not for a bunch of drug running polygamists who are US citizens in name only. Ever been to Mexico City and walked around Chapultepec Park? If you see the Niños Héroes monument you might get an idea of how Mexicans feel about invading gringos (or any foreigners; what is Cinco de Mayo about? The Battle of Puebla where the French lost almost 500 soldiers when Mexican calvary routed them and forced a retreat). The only way it could work (and maybe not even then) is if the Mexican government ask for our assistance and it's a joint operation; otherwise you'll have Mexicans slinging tortilla bombs at every gringo who walks by.

The cartels exist because our government created them back in the 80s. This is a fact and all this "oh but they're bad and sell poison" should be directed to the spooks that brought this on.
 

DCM90

For The Hearts Of Women Everywhere
kiwifarms.net
Man, I'll own up to the fact that cartels are abusing gun laws in the US and/or are getting guns because the ATF is incompetent. But cartels are Mexican born and bred and you can't seriously believe all the cartels are secretly run by the US.
Is not the first time the US made some Frankensteins that got out of control and backfired(Saddam Hussein, Al-quaeda,etc)...
For example CJNG (the cartel that as of now is gaining more power and expanding) leader was a nobody illegal alien slinging dope in San Francisco, gets arrested and deported and then becomes one of the biggest drug lords when he was known for being a dumbass.
Another example is Miguel Treviño or Z-40. He was also another nobody who was arrested in Dallas, Tx and became an informant and as of now his family have dual citizenship (he hasn't been extradited to the USA for some reason...),etc
Also, some other OG Zetas were trained in the USA and Israel before going rouge. There's also presence of Israeli gangsters (not long ago an "exmossad" agent that was deported twice and escaped twice from Israeli prisons was executed in Mexico City), Chinese, Italian MOB and Russians in Mexico..

I don't believe all cartels are run by the US directly but there's obviously some American capos and American cartels that nobody has ever heard from that are allies or use mexican cartels(and colombian/south american cartels) as proxies.
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Is not the first time the US made some Frankensteins that got out of control and backfired(Saddam Hussein, Al-quaeda,etc)...
For example CJNG (the cartel that as of now is gaining more power and expanding) leader was a nobody illegal alien slinging dope in San Francisco, gets arrested and deported and then becomes one of the biggest drug lords when he was known for being a dumbass.
Another example is Miguel Treviño or Z-40. He was also another nobody who was arrested in Dallas, Tx and became an informant and as of now his family have dual citizenship (he hasn't been extradited to the USA for some reason...),etc
Also, some other OG Zetas were trained in the USA and Israel before going rouge. There's also presence of Israeli gangsters (not long ago an "exmossad" agent that was deported twice and escaped twice from Israeli prisons was executed in Mexico City), Chinese, Italian MOB and Russians in Mexico..

I don't believe all cartels are run by the US directly but there's obviously some American capos and American cartels that nobody has ever heard from that are allies or use mexican cartels(and colombian/south american cartels) as proxies.
What does an illegal immigrant, from Mexico, getting deported back to Mexico and starting a cartel have anything to do with the US? And if anything, shouldn't America be concerned that Treviño was getting tons of support from relatives actually living in Texas?

None of what you said could even remotely support that America is puppeting these cartels. They were Mexican born and raised and were shitheads before their limited association with America.
 

Spooky Bones

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
1. If not gangsters, the Mormons have definitely armed themselves and fought against gangsters. Mitt Romney's family of origin is connected but then again most old school Mormons are by a couple of degrees of separation.
2. There has to be either something really serious going on in that regard for this to have been on purpose because as people have stated gringo killin is bad for business.
(obiter: The Mennonite Mob, while at least superficially unrelated, is a really interesting story.)
3. President Obrador, elected a few months shy of a year ago, has a terrible drug policy which features increased consolidation/centralisation of powers in combatting drugs (i.e. perfect avenues for corruption) and an emphasis on de jure criminal prosecution and human rights. This is just the opposite of what will happen if America gets involved, of course.
4. As I mention in the other thread, the worst part of serious American intervention would be the impact it would have on the legitimacy of the Mexican government; treating our slovenly siesta-taking southernly neighbours as on par with Yemen or even Pakistan is not a good look.
5. Since it's DRUMPF it will be called RAYCISS, of course.
6. I have a hard time seeing retributions on US civilians done by the cartels in response to spec ops insertions/airstrikes/whatever is going to be done but who the fuck knows niggas cray.
7. Spec ops insertions/airstrikes and throwing money around could definitely take down a lot of cartel figures but as the pattern has ever been it will just enable the growth of other cartel figures who were snitching and in one way or another more acceptable to the authorities.
8. As a best case outcome, this might mean that less-violent, quietly or not-so-quietly US-backed cartels might take over. As a worst case and probably more likely outcome, decreasing the legitimacy of the Mexican government means it will be an absolute shitshow because their monopoly on lawful use of force is tenuos to begin with.
 

Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
kiwifarms.net
What does an illegal immigrant, from Mexico, getting deported back to Mexico and starting a cartel have anything to do with the US? And if anything, shouldn't America be concerned that Treviño was getting tons of support from relatives actually living in Texas?

None of what you said could even remotely support that America is puppeting these cartels. They were Mexican born and raised and were shitheads before their limited association with America.
They're assets and are allowed (even encouraged) to exist at the behest of certain clandestine operatives because they were/are useful and could be useful in the future. Don't be naive.
 

Slappy McGherkin

Bartender? Make that a double.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Have anyone of you going "AMERICA FUCK YEAH 2ND MEXICAN WAR NOW" been in any non tourista part of Mexico for any length of time? The Mexicans would never put up with US soldiers traipsing around their country even to root out cartels
I'm not the "FUCK YEAH" type at all and yes, I have 35 years of traveling all over Mexico. You are absolutely correct. They don't even like their own damned soldiers and with good reason. Ever since the "Drug Wars," the US has funded the Mexican Army to conduct roadblocks and searches all over the place. Been through many and as a gringo, I always get a wave through and a smile. But if you're a Mexican family traveling in a mini van? Holy fuck, they shred that vehicle, take whatever the hell they feel like, and leave the family to put it all back together again and hopefully get back on their way. Can't tell you how many times I've seen this. It's no wonder they hate their own Army, which is generally a bunch of poor-ass meztisos conscripted from the back woods of southern Mexico. The Army is lower on the trustworthy factor of most Mexicans than the police, which ain't saying a lot.
 

Spooky Bones

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The entire first generation of legal weed industry was gangsters of various stripes (hippie mafia types and then when the jewgolds got more prominent, other types too, because it is also a great moneylaundering opportunity due to reticence of mainstream finance to get involved, and "weed-laundering", too, and the investing of profits from and into other drug trafficking and other crimes) and then after that the money invested by gangsters is huge in the weed industry even though it is becoming corporatized.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Jimboree

Tour of Italy

Closed on Thanksgiving
kiwifarms.net
Have anyone of you going "AMERICA FUCK YEAH 2ND MEXICAN WAR NOW" been in any non tourista part of Mexico for any length of time? The Mexicans would never put up with US soldiers traipsing around their country even to root out cartels and certainly not for a bunch of drug running polygamists who are US citizens in name only. Ever been to Mexico City and walked around Chapultepec Park? If you see the Niños Héroes monument you might get an idea of how Mexicans feel about invading gringos (or any foreigners; what is Cinco de Mayo about? The Battle of Puebla where the French lost almost 500 soldiers when Mexican calvary routed them and forced a retreat). The only way it could work (and maybe not even then) is if the Mexican government ask for our assistance and it's a joint operation; otherwise you'll have Mexicans slinging tortilla bombs at every gringo who walks by.

The cartels exist because our government created them back in the 80s. This is a fact and all this "oh but they're bad and sell poison" should be directed to the spooks that brought this on.
It doesn’t matter who fucking created him when their wealth and influence is literally driven by the American consumer.

And before you make the case that “they wouldn’t have this power if the government didn’t let them operate” realize that the cost of the US or Mexican government finally not “letting them operate” is literally the large scale intervention that people are talking about, and that cost is immense.

And that’s not an excuse for the CIA either. If anything it shows just how unprepared Americans are culturally for any intervention considering how royally we’ve fucked it up in the past. And it goes on to show just how bad things would have to get before the US fucking everything up again back to a slightly less fucked up state becomes the better option.

I can’t speak for anyone else in this thread, but I specifically said that we had a huge part in making this mess but that military intervention is not something that should be desired. There’s a growing chance that things will continue to destabilize to the point where bullets start flying over the border in both directions, but it’s not the best course of action at this point by a long shot.

As for the pride of the Mexican people, I don’t doubt that intervention won’t be seen kindly, but its only even worth considering if it gets to the point where Uncle Sam stumbling in is a better option than you and everyone you love getting your throats slit.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Maw

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
They're assets and are allowed (even encouraged) to exist at the behest of certain clandestine operatives because they were/are useful and could be useful in the future. Don't be naive.
What? Treviño was charged with avoiding arrest and paid a 700 dollar fine, then went back to Mexico and started a cartel. Keep in mind this dude wasn't even really living in America. He border hopped from time to time, illegally, to shop in America.

Are you suggesting that the CIA was prescient that this dude was going to become one of the biggest cartel leaders and only fined him to keep an eye on him?
 

repentance

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
2. There has to be either something really serious going on in that regard for this to have been on purpose because as people have stated gringo killin is bad for business.
They're American in name only and the family has been pissing off the natives, not just the narcos, for years.

1572990655205.png


It's interesting how little of the family's history is making it into the reports about this incident.
 
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