NodeJS CoC Salt and NPM Genocide Afterparty - now with way more Antifa

[CrunkLord420]

https://github.com/nodejs/community-committee/issues/117 (https://archive.fo/WSijd)

seemingly random user wants the CommComm (Community Committee) to write up some official propaganda to counter literal redditers.


I've seen this Marak guy be combative several times.


His twitter (https://twitter.com/marak)


Back to the propaganda


Community/Code of Conduct SJW has to moderate her own comment, marak throws more bombs. Everyone tries to ignore the elephant in the room.

 

[D.Va]

I don't think the ayo.js guys realise how small their bubble really is. People don't jump from one software platform to another because of ethical values -- if they did, Amazon and Apple would be bankrupt. Hypocrisy lies with everyone on that team, and you bet they all own Macbooks and AWS instances.

"that reddit crowd" are indeed the primary users of node. It's a very small percentage of people who actively take part in contributing to a piece of software, and there really is a large silent majority of people who just want to do their job. And trying to bring reason to an issue tracker of a fork only created to pad the maintainers' résumés is a one-sided battle.

 

[AnOminous]

"Regular people" during 30's Germany weren't #woke, they were the people who voted for the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei in the '32 elections, otherwise they wouldn't have become the biggest German political party that election year

You know what also came out of '30s Germany? Antifa thugs who were actual, literal Communists beating people up in the streets, resulting in the Nazis being able to portray themselves as the law and order party (despite being no less criminal themselves).

Even the "antifa" term comes from '30s Germany.

 

[Sissy Galvez]

It's funny reading the SJW response to all of this. Now using the CoC against the ones who demanded its creation is playing a "gotcha" game. Basically, it's never them that's in the wrong and it's always everyone else. They will jump through epic hoops and turn into massive hypocrites to promote that narrative.

The sad thing for SJWs is no matter how many times they repeat their mantras like "speech is violence" and "trust my feels" and "trans women are women" they will never ever be true and normal people know this. They don't give a shit about social justice and that's why their fork will die. The vast majority of people involved just want to code and leave out politics.

 

[CrunkLord420]

Proposal: Board issues a joint non-discrimination statement: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/330 (https://archive.fo/9Bliz)



Clarification of "intentional, targeted trolling" claim made by Node.js representative: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/331 (https://archive.fo/47Ybr)

 

[Ineedahero]

It's funny reading the SJW response to all of this. Now using the CoC against the ones who demanded its creation is playing a "gotcha" game. Basically, it's never them that's in the wrong and it's always everyone else. They will jump through epic hoops and turn into massive hypocrites to promote that narrative.

The sad thing for SJWs is no matter how many times they repeat their mantras like "speech is violence" and "trust my feels" and "trans women are women" they will never ever be true and normal people know this. They don't give a shit about social justice and that's why their fork will die. The vast majority of people involved just want to code and leave out politics.

It's just a crazy coincidence that their friends can accuse anyone they like however they like while everyone else is off topic or deliberately trolling.

 

[CrunkLord420]

I guess one more update before this thread gets locked due to time expiration.

Someone went over the AyoJS (which is on it's way to being a dead project) project to ask them "why?". It's quite long so go read it yourself: https://github.com/ayojs/ayo/issues/36 (https://archive.fo/J88si)

Here's a sample, there's a lot to read. I'm not going to screenshot all this. Go check the archive link to get the juicy (but verbose) stuffs.

Spoiler: zkat's wall of text response

Hi. I pushed the button on the fork and I wrote one of the drafts of VALUES.md.

This fork is not about Rod. This fork is not about excluding or kicking anyone out or punishing people for CoC violations.

This fork is about an ongoing frustration with Node Core (and, tbh, Foundation) leadership where it has been very difficult for collaborators to represent their interests -- with most of the project's actual power concentrated on a few individuals with priorities that are different from many of their contributors. This is about establishing a governance system that spreads out power more, and that is better able to represent the interests of the people who are actually there, contributing, and working with the project.

This fork happened because the Documentation WG fell apart after trying really hard to charter.

This fork happened because the Inclusivity WG fell apart after trying really hard to charter.

This fork happened because Node leadership was essentially unwilling to so much as ask one of its members to step down after repeatedly antagonizing and sometimes harassing members of their own community.

This fork happened because URMs/women/etc have been leaving Node or significantly reducing their involvement due to the organization's refusal to take their needs seriously.

This fork happened because the TSC still exists/existed even though it was essentially vestigial and largely ineffective -- a relic of a time when the Node Foundation was still picturing itself as the toplevel of an umbrella. But now they're under the Linux Foundation so that was no longer necessary or appropriate.

This fork happened because there are a couple of individuals who have disproportionate amount of representation in Node leadership: participating in the CTC, the TSC, and the Board, all at the same time.

This fork happened because every time the word Promise is so much as mentioned in the Node issue tracker, there's something resembling a small civil war, and Node's technical leadership has been unable to direct those discussions in such a way that they can happen positively and peacefully. Instead, any time a contentious technical issue comes up, it gets dragged on until people literally end up leaving the project because they can't even anymore.

This fork happened because Michael Jackson Script is still a thing, except it's not, because it's still not there.

This fork happened because the only way Node's leadership ever seems to get off their asses and actually do something is when you set a fire so big they can't just ignore it -- because their default attitude is to ignore anything the few folks at the top vaguely dislike and hope that it goes away.

This fork happened because Node Core has a very narrow perspective on what's important to the project, and an even narrower perspective on what "technical" means, and has repeatedly shown to be utterly incapable of serving the needs of anything but commits to .js and .cpp files.

This fork happened because a nonzero number of Node Core folks believe "diversity" means "just add more languages" -- so they believe it is not worth putting the time into serving the needs of folks in countries where they are marginalized. Instead, the only "diversity" efforts that they ever seem to actually act upon are just timezone and language accessibility serving people from prestigious/dominant social groups in other countries. These are worthwhile efforts, but Inclusion must begin at home.

This fork happened because node-eps is an insult to the Node community and an example of the level of internal politicking that the rest of the community is not privy to, or allowed to be privy to. Because a repository intentionally designed to be a dumping ground for "ideas we don't want to deal with by annoying people we don't wanna talk to" speaks volumes about the project's structure.

This fork happened because for all their talk about separation of money and technical concerns -- the whole reason for the Core/Foundation split -- Core ends up consistently favoring concerns related to sponsors and Enterprise interests above those of its contributor community.

So no, I don't actually give a flying fuck about Rod Vagg himself. Behold my field upon I which I grow my fucks, and you shall see that it is, indeed, barren. The reason that was the straw that broke the camel's back was because several people spent months building a case and negotiating and trying to find away to remove a figure from a single governance committee (let's be clear: no one ever proposed or even considered trying to remove Rod from the project), and that all of that work was ultimately ineffective -- and the governance reasons why it was ineffective, demonstrated the futility of trying to influence Node Core as a collaborator, and the ass-backwards priorities the project has when it comes to the health of its own community.

Looks like jasnell (very pro-CoC) closed his own attempt to create his weird rule where they don't enforce social media posts except for when they feel like it:

One day after that MylesBorins (FOSS orbiter and CoC-pusher) creates a request a place for them
Need for public repo with conversation explicitly limited to Collaborators: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/343 (https://archive.fo/F8JGf)

Nothing exceptionally dramatic in the replies, just obvious pushing for the power to screen out "trolls" from the GitHub PRs (trolling = disagreeing). Some push back from people who don't see a real reason for it.

Back to AyoJS, I found it cute that that despite all their "Issues" they seem to have no interest in doing anything with the core of NodeJS. With the most actual work being placed into discussing moderation, governance and logo creation. The few technical issues have had pretty much non-replies.

Wouldn't want to actually make any meaningful changes or break compatibility with upstream, right AyoJS?

 

[PhantomDiploma]

Someone went over the AyoJS (which is on it's way to being a dead project) project to ask them "why?". It's quite long so go read it yourself: https://github.com/ayojs/ayo/issues/36 (https://archive.fo/J88si)

This fork happened because Node leadership was essentially unwilling to so much as ask one of its members to step down after repeatedly antagonizing and sometimes harassing members of their own community.

It's worth noting that the Node.js members who closed the issue rationalized their refusal to ban Kat's GitHub account after she broke the Node.js terms of service:

By claiming she is so uninvolved with core Node.js development that it's unnecessary:

Clarification of "intentional, targeted trolling" claim made by Node.js representative: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/331 (https://archive.fo/47Ybr)

Most of the members actually participating in Ayo.js, like Fishrock123, are still actively working in Node.js and occasionally dropping into Ayo.js.

I'm guessing a few people are also hoping Ayo.js will let them see a large-scale implementation some of their more experimental/unpolished ideas, presumably under the impression the repo will ever see large-scale implementation or review their code instead of another values.md revision.

Update:

Ashley Williams was also suspended on Twitter 4 days ago, which caused one of Node's payroll SJWs to scream about how Twitter is "kicking off my employees for year-old tweets exactly like the ones I make daily".

Followed by her accusing Twitter's CEO of being a Nazi:

I’m assuming at this point that Jack is a Nazi himself, and this is why he so zealously preserves the use of his site for them.

While she had time to accuse Jack and the 99% of the country to his political right of being Nazis, as of 4 days later she has not had time to mention what Ms. Williams was actually said:

What was the offending tweet?

 

[CrunkLord420]

NPM CEO Isaac Schlueter had a sperg out https://twitter.com/izs/status/911105515798720513 (https://archive.fo/Ticgi)

This was noticed by /r/node: https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/71snxa/npm_ceo_if_you_are_not_a_white_dude_and_have/

Which resulted in the usual NodeJS suspects (James Snell, Myles Borins, Ashley Williams) crying about it and demanding that /r/node be shut down, have it's moderators replaced or make an unofficial statement foundation about how icky-gross /r/node is for talking about their public twitter meltdowns: https://twitter.com/izs/status/911732466758516736 (http://archive.md/h8KSP) and https://twitter.com/jasnell/status/911679076800241664 (http://archive.md/0RMWp)

This was also noticed by /r/node: https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/723dke/npm_ceo_rnode_is_not_part_of_the_node_community/

 

[Ineedahero]

NPM CEO Isaac Schlueter had a sperg out https://twitter.com/izs/status/911105515798720513 (https://archive.fo/Ticgi)
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That math lesson doesn't make any sense, it's not just me right?

 

[Oh Long Johnson]

That math lesson doesn't make any sense, it's not just me right?

This guy's presumably got a bunch of CS majors following him. I didn't see a call out and was very, very confused.

 

[PhantomDiploma]

Did a search for "[recognized US domestic terror group]" (thread, spoiler: they think everyone is a "white supremacist" - including Asians and Latinos) and "izs/ag_dubs" (archive).
And I was not disappointed.
Edit: He also seems to know exactly what ANTIFA actually wants to do to their "Nazis", if not their poor judgement of what constitutes Nazism (tweet, archive, bike lock).
TL;DR he thinks we should 'convince' Nazis to not be Nazis by killing their leaders.

Spoiler: Context does not make it better

He clarified some of the important issues later on:

Spoiler: Now, back to boringer, not-calling-for-literal-death-squads topics

Tweets Archive

Important background: The CEO of NPM was posting this the day ANTIFA started a riot to prevent Milo from speaking at UC Berkeley - $100,000 in damage to the campus and $500,000 to local businesses. This was also his first post mention ANTIFA per the search results:

Oh, apparently Ashley Williams is a fan of Yvette Falarca/BAMN (tweet, archive, thread).
More ANTIFA apologia:

Tweet Archive

Tweet Archive

 

[Ineedahero]

I can't wait for someone to punch him in the face and then explain that they oppose violence but the map is not the territory.

 

[CrunkLord420]

Guy writes article about how NodeJS leadership is imploding.
https://medium.com/@bgourlie/nodejs-leadership-is-a-toxic-mess-34e2b8faa003 (https://archive.fo/dxQIb)
https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/72esta/nodejs_leadership_is_a_toxic_mess/

Response from the organizers of Assert JS.
https://hackernoon.com/a-plea-for-moderation-and-understanding-on-diversity-be51aff8a528 (https://archive.fo/1V7wK)
https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/72cguj/a_plea_for_moderation_and_understanding_on/

Isaac is pumping out the salt on twitter, Marak in the replies.

 

[Marvin]

NPM CEO Isaac Schlueter had a sperg out https://twitter.com/izs/status/911105515798720513 (https://archive.fo/Ticgi)

Heh, I'm already blocked by this guy. I'm on some sort of blocklist somewhere. Like, the trannies have had me blocked for awhile, but I was wondering when that'd start to intersect with the tech industry. I guess it's begun.

Hacker News is like a pretty reputable site when it comes to tech spergs. You can blow off reddit and the chans without missing too much, but there's some serious technological chops at Hacker News (and some serious autism).

But sjws hate it because it's owned by hypercapitalist Paul Graham.

That math lesson doesn't make any sense, it's not just me right?

He's saying that if brilliant speakers are sprinkled evenly throughout society, without regard to race, gender, etc, then artificially excluding one section of the population means you're going to miss out on some gems.

Which I totally get. If there are real diversity issues in the tech world hiding behind all the drama, it doesn't hurt anything to send some extra invites to women's groups to submit papers. Now what does hurt things are phrasing it like "non white cis males wanted". It has the same effect (or less), but also causes a big shitfit.

There's no reason to phrase things that way unless you are specifically trying to start shit.

 

[Ineedahero]

Heh, I'm already blocked by this guy. I'm on some sort of blocklist somewhere. Like, the trannies have had me blocked for awhile, but I was wondering when that'd start to intersect with the tech industry. I guess it's begun.

Hacker News is like a pretty reputable site when it comes to tech spergs. You can blow off reddit and the chans without missing too much, but there's some serious technological chops at Hacker News (and some serious autism).

But sjws hate it because it's owned by hypercapitalist Paul Graham.

He's saying that if brilliant speakers are sprinkled evenly throughout society, without regard to race, gender, etc, then artificially excluding one section of the population means you're going to miss out on some gems.

Which I totally get. If there are real diversity issues in the tech world hiding behind all the drama, it doesn't hurt anything to send some extra invites to women's groups to submit papers. Now what does hurt things are phrasing it like "non white cis males wanted". It has the same effect (or less), but also causes a big shitfit.

There's no reason to phrase things that way unless you are specifically trying to start shit.

Sure that's a good reason to treat everyone equally, but that doesn't mean it's a good reason to specifically select from some groups and avoid hiring from others. If you want the greatest chance of success you wouldn't send out extra invites to women or black people or the like, you would send out extra invites to white men, since they are the most represented. You definitely wouldn't exclude white men, since they are your primary source of gems.

 

[Marvin]

Sure that's a good reason to treat everyone equally, but that doesn't mean it's a good reason to specifically select from some groups and avoid hiring from others. If you want the greatest chance of success you wouldn't send out extra invites to women or black people or the like, you would send out extra invites to white men, since they are the most represented. You definitely wouldn't exclude white men, since they are your primary source of gems.

That's what's being disputed. (Or more precisely: it's claimed that white men take up a share of gems that isn't fully justified by the objective numbers.)

They're saying that the gems are out there, already present in minority populations, but because of alleged bigotry, they're scared away from participating in tech. So to counteract that, you'd make extra effort to attract minority participation.

In general, I'm OK with this as long as it's not bitchy and insulting to people in the majority.

So I'm fine with, for example, recruiting for job candidates at a women's college or a NSBE event. As long as the actual job application process itself is neutral, it doesn't violate any laws.

 

[CrunkLord420]

Our man Isaac has gone ahead and made his Twitter profile private.


On a sort of interesting node /r/node moderator kahwee posted up a sticky in the "NodeJS leadership is a toxic mess" post vague suggestion (but not demand) to continue the discussion in a new subreddit he made called /r/metanode (https://www.reddit.com/r/metanode/comments/72fxni/nodejs_leadership_is_a_toxic_mess/ (http://archive.md/GNFne)) as an attempt to keep /r/node purely technical.

He has since deleted this post, without explanation. Implying he has no intention of ending any critical discussion of the project. Fortunately you can still see the post on his profile (http://archive.md/u98YS).



Snapshot archive of /r/node thread: http://archive.md/XVsqj

There's going to be a meeting on the 27th to discuss what exactly "NodeJS values" are, since they're attempting to write the new rules in such a way that would have resulted in Rod Vagg being removed due to his criticism of the Code of Conduct: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/363

Draft of the new "expectations": https://github.com/nodejs/admin/pull/12/files

Looks like Katerina Marchán (maybekatz) has gone private as well.


Ian Miles Cheong wrote about Isaac Schlueter at his gig at the Daily Caller: http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/tech-ceo-isaac-schlueter-calls-for-fewer-white-men-in-tech (https://archive.fo/Y1iPl)

 

[AnOminous]

He has since deleted this post, without explanation. Implying he has no intention of ending any critical discussion of the project. Fortunately you can still see the post on his profile (http://archive.md/u98YS).

More implying he's just chickenshitting out because he got called on it and will return and try to do the same shit, but more sneakily.

 

[Jaimas]

Heh, I'm already blocked by this guy. I'm on some sort of blocklist somewhere. Like, the trannies have had me blocked for awhile, but I was wondering when that'd start to intersect with the tech industry. I guess it's begun.

Hacker News is like a pretty reputable site when it comes to tech spergs. You can blow off reddit and the chans without missing too much, but there's some serious technological chops at Hacker News (and some serious autism).

But sjws hate it because it's owned by hypercapitalist Paul Graham.

He's saying that if brilliant speakers are sprinkled evenly throughout society, without regard to race, gender, etc, then artificially excluding one section of the population means you're going to miss out on some gems.

Which I totally get. If there are real diversity issues in the tech world hiding behind all the drama, it doesn't hurt anything to send some extra invites to women's groups to submit papers. Now what does hurt things are phrasing it like "non white cis males wanted". It has the same effect (or less), but also causes a big shitfit.

There's no reason to phrase things that way unless you are specifically trying to start shit.

My shitposting accounts are also blocked despite never contacting the guy either.