TGWTG Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis / TheDudette - aka Hotdogs in face girl

Judge Holden

TRVE BVCK BREAKER
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Also i know its probably been said a whole bunch of times now but there is something so especially scumfuck scented about throwing a months long couch-fainting pity party for yourself for having the barest fucking taste of the "being declared an evil harassing bigot and have mobs of internet retards try to bully your associates into destroying your career" shit she has been happily inflicting on others for her own advancement and cheering on when its against people who are fashionable to hate among media goons.

But then she is and has long demonstrated the fact that she is just a grifting snakesow who will happily say and do whatever she thinks will get her the most prestige and career advancement, so any moral criticism of her behavior is pretty fucking pointless as it would just bounce off like oh so many court ordered AA meetings
 

Boston Brand

kiwifarms.net
Well... I don't know about Adsense but after a high of just of 10K paypigs on Patreon right after the Mask Off video, she's back down around 9700. Not bad by any means, but no new blood.
View attachment 2364457

On Socialblade, you can see she's not gaining any new subs to her already substantial 1.16M and hasn't for a while.
View attachment 2364462

Look at that flatline! Right after the sympathy bump from her Twitter flounce.
View attachment 2364466

She's stagnant. Despite her other outlets (book, Nebula, PBS, etc), her primary brand content isn't growing. It's the slow death of a YouTuber.

Those numbers really are facinating... especially when you remember she's had zero real growth or moderate decline DESPITE being one of the main faces of Breadtube, on a YouTube network literally owned by Disney, and all the networking and asskissing she's done over the years.

Meanwhile, as I pointed out elsewhere on the thread, you have new guys like Critical Drinker who have NONE of those advantages and they're growing astronomically, and/or set to have larger channels and audiences than she does by years end.

Then there's the fact she still can't pull bigger numbers than Doug Walker in a given month.

Even among breadtube, she plays second fiddle behind people like Contrapoints.

Can't top the old talent, getting her ass kicked by new talent, and in her own band of idiots, she's the Ringo. That's despite every advantage she has and a literal decade of impressive ammounts of ass kissing and networking.

Smart money says that's why she took that half-assed "cancelling" so personally. She literally can't afford to fall out of favor.

She's stagnant or declining WITH that level of support, she loses it, she's just a couple years of freefall away from being as much of a pathetic hasbeen as Allison Pregler and that lot.

Now if only we could see that happen, the fireworks would be glorious.


The book sits at 53k in Amazon raking (the second book will be released in October). Using https://amzscout.net/sales-estimator/ (it's not a science, just a ballpark, probably reverse engineer their numbers) says it sells a bit less that 300 a month.

That would be respectable for an indie, but when you're published by a bigger house, plus you have a huge audience and are a memeber of "I suck you, you'll suck me" clique, that's not much. Whatever advance she got it will be probably the only money she'll see from this endeavor.

Honestly, 300 a month might be generous, but otherwise you probably aren't too far off.

I'm going to try not to be too inside baseball/power level-y, but the dirty little secret of publishing is most writers lose money for the publisher. There are some great authors who are lucky to maybe sell less than a thousand copies of a book, if that... and once their contract with the publisher ends, the publisher cuts ties, and they try with another one or give up.

A famous example... those detective novels JK Rowling wrote under a pseudonym? You know the publisher was the one that leaked it was her? Why? Because they were set to take a bath on them... the first book by Robert Galbraith sold less than 100 copies before they revealed it was actually Rowling.

That Lindsay Ellis' book is doing poorly isn't odd, hell for any other author, it would be damned normal. Disappointing, but normal.

For Ellis though? MAJOR reality check to just how little mainstream appeal she has.

Her publishers meanwhile, are probably having an even bigger reality check - again, that a book that new is halfprice at wholesale bookstores before the paperback has even dropped means the publisher and/or stores are DESPERATE to make at least some of thier money back.

My guess? They made the same mistake Ellis did and beleived her own hype.

Again, she's performing fairly typical for a newbie author's first book, ie, poorly.

Thing is, the publisher didn't treat Ellis like a newbie author I'm guessing. They treated her like a Hugo-nomimee* with a massive YouTube channel and Twitter** and a PBS show*** and a ton of press coverage, even a Wikipedia page***. We all know that's all largely bullshit, but to some publisher, on paper, I'm sure Ellis looked like as damned close to a sure thing as possible.

So I'm sure they signed her to a massive advance, multi-book contract with a large first printing, some combination of the three, all things they would typically never give a fiest time author.

And now to their horror, a YouTube channel that hasn't grown in half a decade and Twitter asspats don't tranalate to booksales. So it was a NYT Bestseller for literally a week, that doesn't mean much beyond marketing, or best case scenario, it sold a few hundred copies in around New York City. And they're stuck holding the bag.

Not a great position to be in for any publisher... though arguably its a worse position for Ellis, given if her next book performs like this or worse - again, not usual for new authors - she's probably getting dropped by the publisher, likely with nobody else willing to pick her up. Poor sales for a new author are one thing, losing your publisher a shitton of money gets you blacklisted.

* - all but confirmed she bought a few Hugo ballots to get her Hobbit video nominated, and possibly for her Campbell nod this year... a couple dozen Worldcon badges are chump change given her Patreon numbers, and while to readers, the award has been meaningless for half a decade or more, there's a reason why Ellis only sold her book after she got a Hugo nod. Publishers still buy into them.

** - Stagnant for years at this point, but impressive at a first glance to any causal observer.

*** - Networking and asskissing the right people can take you only so far, but damn if Ellis didn't have a knack at it for a while.

Also i know its probably been said a whole bunch of times now but there is something so especially scumfuck scented about throwing a months long couch-fainting pity party for yourself for having the barest fucking taste of the "being declared an evil harassing bigot and have mobs of internet retards try to bully your associates into destroying your career" shit she has been happily inflicting on others for her own advancement and cheering on when its against people who are fashionable to hate among media goons.

But then she is and has long demonstrated the fact that she is just a grifting snakesow who will happily say and do whatever she thinks will get her the most prestige and career advancement, so any moral criticism of her behavior is pretty fucking pointless as it would just bounce off like oh so many court ordered AA meetings

I mean, what else is she going to talk about? Her book that's in freefall, her stagnant channel? That her one talent - networking - might have finally taken her as far as it can?

Turns out, getting an ego because you are more talented than most of the Channel Awesome crew is like thinking your hot shit because you're the smart kid on the short bus.

Oh to be a fly on the wall for those brief moments where Ellis realizes being more talented than FilmBrain doesn't mean jack shit when measured up against Ryan Coogler or Brandon Sanderson.
 

AnOminous

μολὼν λαβέ
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I'm going to try not to be too inside baseball/power level-y, but the dirty little secret of publishing is most writers lose money for the publisher.
And for the vast majority of books, especially first books, the advance is the last money the author sees.

Ironically, despite probably not being nearly as bad as Zoe Quinn's shit book that completely tanked, Quinn managed to finagle her way into a ridiculously out-sized advance and apparently sold a film option on it. So she made out like a bandit with an even worse failure of a book.
 

Maratus volans

Peacock Spider
kiwifarms.net
Ironically, despite probably not being nearly as bad as Zoe Quinn's shit book that completely tanked, Quinn managed to finagle her way into a ridiculously out-sized advance and apparently sold a film option on it. So she made out like a bandit with an even worse failure of a book.
Lindsay might well drink herself to death on the spot if she were to ever realize that an ugly woman with a reputation for being a massive whore who burns every bridge she crosses and then loudly cries about it for sympathy is still running laps around her in the one thing she's good at: kissing ass. Both of them are long on ambition but short on talent, but Quinn has arguably achieved more of the fame Lindsay wants with way less effort.
 

Bolo

kiwifarms.net
Her publishers meanwhile, are probably having an even bigger reality check - again, that a book that new is halfprice at wholesale bookstores before the paperback has even dropped means the publisher and/or stores are DESPERATE to make at least some of thier money back.

100% agree with most of what you said, but I really doubt that Ellis' publishers are thta much in distress over this book's failure.

First, the price, I doubt the publisher had to advance a lot of cash to get this book, Ellis was so goddamned desperate to get book deal, and not needing the money due her patreon and having a well of cuck to marry, I bet she took the deal for scraps.

Also, there was very little work done in the book, whoever was editing it, they just didn't give a singular fuck. I've read the thing, and the prose is amateurish at best, confusing structure, repeating words, meandering sentences, just, bad crafstmanship. Good writting is hard to come by, and even the most celebrated authors admit that they need strong editors to keep their books consistent. So considering how little work went into Lindsay's novel, it is very telling that the publisher just didn't give that much of a fuck.

And honestly, why should they give much of a fuck for Lindsay Ellis. Let's be real, the publisher wasn't buying her book, they were buying her internet influencer clout and YA novels are not well known for their quality wordsmithing anyway, so who gives a fuck right?

however, if there is anything for the publisher to be upset about is quite a obvious thing that was missing in this mix:

ELLIS DIDN'T USE HER BIG PLATFORM TO SELL HER BOOK.

The very reason on why Ellis got a deal wasn't used to sell the thing. And the problem is once again this big Ego that Lindsay has, she thinks she is too good to be a "youtuber" and yet she got a book deal that would give the accolade of "published author" she wanted so bad because she is a "youtuber" and yet when came the time to hype the book and sell the fucking thing, she barely spoke about it.

No videos about the book it self, the characters, some synopsis in video form or a fancy presentation, nothing besides tweets and a shitty Q&A when the book was already out, because, again, Ellis probably thought this was beneath her, when the very reason on why she got the book deal in the first place was that she could sell to a large audience in her subscriber numbers.

Even fucking Razorfist knew how to hype up his pulp novella, constanly making streams talking about it, posting art and concept of the characters and world, and videos about it:


Haven't Read Razorfist's book, and I don't have much interest in it anyway, but at least the guy tried to sell the thing, while Ellis just sat there, thinking eveybody will just be awed by her huge talent.

Also, I saw her in that last video posted, fuck, she is getting rough, she isn't even 40 and she is getting a dewlap, geez...
 
Last edited:

Boston Brand

kiwifarms.net
100% agree with most of what you said, but I really doubt that Ellis' publishers are thta much in distress over this book's failure.

First, the price, I doubt the publisher had to advance a lot of cash to get this book, Ellis was so goddamned desperate to get book deal, and not needing the money due her patreon and having a well of cuck to marry, I bet she took the deal for scraps.

Also, there was very little work done in the book, whoever was editing it, they just didn't give a singular fuck. I've read the thing, and the prose is amateurish at best, confusing structure, repeating words, meandering sentences, just, bad crafstmanship. Good writting is hard to come by, and even the most celebrated authors admit that they need strong editors to keep their books consistent. So considering how little work went into Lindsay's novel, it is very telling that the publisher just didn't give that much of a fuck.

And honestly, why should they give much of a fuck for Lindsay Ellis. Let's be real, the publisher wasn't buying her book, they were buying her internet influencer clout and YA novels are not well known for their quality wordsmithing anyway, so who gives a fuck right?

however, if there is anything for the publisher to be upset about is quite a obvious thing that was missing in this mix:

ELLIS DIDN'T USE HER BIG PLATFORM TO SELL HER BOOK.

The very reason on why Ellis got a deal wasn't used to sell the thing. And the problem is once again this big Ego that Lindsay has, she thinks she is too good to be a "youtuber" and yet she got a book deal that would give the accolade of "published author" she wanted so bad because she is a "youtuber" and yet when came the time to hype the book and sell the fucking thing, she barely spoke about it.

No videos about the book it self, the characters, some synopsis in video form or a fancy presentation, nothing besides tweets and a shitty Q&A when the book was already out, because, again, Ellis probably thought this was beneath her, when the very reason on why she got the book deal in the first place was that she could sell to a large audience in her subscriber numbers.

Even fucking Razorfist knew how to hype up his pulp novella, constanly making streams talking about it, posting art and concept of the characters and world, and videos about it:


Haven't Read Razorfist's book, and I don't have much interest in it anyway, but at least the guy tried to sell the thing, while Ellis just sat there, thinking eveybody will just be awed by her huge talent.

Also, I saw her in that last video posted, fuck, she is getting rough, she isn't even 40 and she is getting a dewlap, geez...

I agree with a ton of the latter, but disagree that the publisher isn't on the hook too... if only that you almost never see books this new hit the wholesalers this quickly, much less at halfprice.

Speaking from inside the beast, even with bad books, typically, unless a store is really desperate to clear shelf space - and admittedly we have seen some of that, Barnes and Noble alone have shrunk the speculative fiction section by 2 shelves per store on average - usually a new hardcover will stay on the shelves for a couple years, its not uncommon to occasionally see hardbacks on shelf even 2-3 years after the book drops.

For an example... Trail of Lightning, by Rebecca Roanhorse, because I really do love picking on her as an example of authors who couldn't sell a book if thier lives depend on it. Came out in 2018, and your average book store probably still has a copy... you're really only now seeing them get dumped on wholesalers.

That despite the fact the only book Roanhorse has ever released that didn't lose money for the publisher was her Rise of Skywalker tie-in novel. Sold badly enough that her publisher (quietly) put the kibosh on her ongoing series after the second book and forced her to start a new one to fulfill her contract. There are strains of cancer more popular than Rebecca Roanhorse books.

There has to be something facinatingly wrong behind the scenes that Ellis' year old book isn't just already being dumped on wholesalers and second hand stores, but pretty much straight into the clearance bins of these places.
 

Dr. Pasquale

Harvard PhD
kiwifarms.net
Also, there was very little work done in the book, whoever was editing it, they just didn't give a singular fuck. I've read the thing, and the prose is amateurish at best, confusing structure, repeating words, meandering sentences, just, bad crafstmanship. Good writting is hard to come by, and even the most celebrated authors admit that they need strong editors to keep their books consistent. So considering how little work went into Lindsay's novel, it is very telling that the publisher just didn't give that much of a fuck.
Can you expand upon your thoughts on it?

I'm too lazy to go read up the wikipedia page and i want to know another kiwi's honest opinion about it
 

Arthur Morgan

kiwifarms.net
I agree with a ton of the latter, but disagree that the publisher isn't on the hook too... if only that you almost never see books this new hit the wholesalers this quickly, much less at halfprice.

Speaking from inside the beast, even with bad books, typically, unless a store is really desperate to clear shelf space - and admittedly we have seen some of that, Barnes and Noble alone have shrunk the speculative fiction section by 2 shelves per store on average - usually a new hardcover will stay on the shelves for a couple years, its not uncommon to occasionally see hardbacks on shelf even 2-3 years after the book drops.

For an example... Trail of Lightning, by Rebecca Roanhorse, because I really do love picking on her as an example of authors who couldn't sell a book if thier lives depend on it. Came out in 2018, and your average book store probably still has a copy... you're really only now seeing them get dumped on wholesalers.

That despite the fact the only book Roanhorse has ever released that didn't lose money for the publisher was her Rise of Skywalker tie-in novel. Sold badly enough that her publisher (quietly) put the kibosh on her ongoing series after the second book and forced her to start a new one to fulfill her contract. There are strains of cancer more popular than Rebecca Roanhorse books.

There has to be something facinatingly wrong behind the scenes that Ellis' year old book isn't just already being dumped on wholesalers and second hand stores, but pretty much straight into the clearance bins of these places.
When selling a book to book stores, how much does the publisher hype the author to the stores? For example, a Stephen King novel is a guaranteed hit, so a publisher can easily sell a ton of books based on his name alone.

Now I don't know much about the business but I could see the publisher mentioning the size of Lindsay's audience online and using that as an incentive. "If she's getting two million hits on a video, imagine how many of them will buy a copy of her first book!" Now we all know that online fame doesn't necessarily translate to real life, but many people still don't understand that.

I assume that's also how Quinns book was sold.
 

RumblyTumbly

kiwifarms.net
Now I don't know much about the business but I could see the publisher mentioning the size of Lindsay's audience online and using that as an incentive. "If she's getting two million hits on a video, imagine how many of them will buy a copy of her first book!" Now we all know that online fame doesn't necessarily translate to real life, but many people still don't understand that.

That exact sentiment is why Lily Singh got a late night talk show on NBC. Yikes.
 

Dubu Kimchi

kiwifarms.net
Her best video yet

Lindsey shared an anecdote on her podcast recently that at her senior thesis screening (this video being it) Andy Dick (who had narrated one of the other films) was escorted out of the theatre by prof. Tomlinson Holman for riffing on the films, Holman is the guy who made THX.

She also sounded drunk on the episode as well but that should be expected.
 

Bolo

kiwifarms.net
Can you expand upon your thoughts on it?

I'm too lazy to go read up the wikipedia page and i want to know another kiwi's honest opinion about it

I did a whole autismo posts about the book back when it came out:


and

 

Laughingjoke2

kiwifarms.net
I know jack shit about Mara's actual sexuality if she's Bi or just wanted woke points.

The Woke points thing is what makes me dislike the whole bi and Pansexual craze of today. It's the the easiest thing to claim to get woke points and social media praise without actually having to live the life and deal with the negatives of it. If I was Gay or Lesbian this shit would annoy me.

But Lindsay is definitely in the woke points camp IMO when it comes to her "bisexuality" and her issue with Mara again JMO was Mara being bi while real or fake made Lindsay less special in their click.
 

Akashic Retard

apples and oranges have a lot of similarities
kiwifarms.net
Not that I know, but from what I've heard it's easier than ever to self-publish as long as you're willing doing to do a bit of leg-work. It seems to make far more sense for a relatively unknown person like her to just do that.
 

PeriodicTrouble

kiwifarms.net
Not that I know, but from what I've heard it's easier than ever to self-publish as long as you're willing doing to do a bit of leg-work. It seems to make far more sense for a relatively unknown person like her to just do that.
If she did that, she wouldn't feel like a big deal, Why self publish and most likely get more money when you can brag about getting a book deal with a big publisher and how it took 10 years to get to this point so you can humblebrag?
 
Not that I know, but from what I've heard it's easier than ever to self-publish as long as you're willing doing to do a bit of leg-work. It seems to make far more sense for a relatively unknown person like her to just do that.

If she did that, she wouldn't feel like a big deal, Why self publish and most likely get more money when you can brag about getting a book deal with a big publisher and how it took 10 years to get to this point so you can humblebrag?
And if things don't work out, maybe self-publishing means you won't have to deal with the egg on your face that comes with shitty sales numbers?
 

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