- Joined
- Apr 21, 2020
afaik she's not even a Transformers fag, besides complaining about Michael Bay movies, she only likes MTMTE (because it's GAY) and her husbando Starscream (another proof she's a basic ho)
TGWTG Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis / TheDudette - aka Hotdogs in face girl
- Thread starter Brandobaris
- Start date
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Registration closed, comedy forum, Internet drama, Sneed, etc.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
I mean, how far does the Transformers rabbit hole go? From what I’ve seen, all you need to get into internet circles for it is bash the Michael Bay films and advocate for things that adhere to the G1/1980s continuity.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2020
Well, you have to have some serious nostalgia goggles to think the 80s cartoon was some high art of story telling (although some actually believe that). But these days Transformers is pretty much quantity > quality, even the official fan wiki is a meme, and continuity sperging is pointless because there're like 20 versions of each character so if you don't like Ratchet being gay then read/watch anything else, it's all been rebooted anyway...
edit: Not saying Lindsay didn't watch the 80s cartoon but I get the impression it was always a thing she liked ironically. And then her nonsensical Bayformers analysis arguing that Shia Labeouf is how Bay sees men and something about robot's balls and queer theory, I don't even know... I'm starting to suspect she only made that thing to troll Doug.
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- Joined
- Feb 19, 2021
Real keepers thirst for Skywarp
grapeshark77
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2021
No Lindsay, but this article has been making the rounds today and the timing is perfect, this is exactly what happened with her. If these actual celebs can't move books her sales numbers must be horrific.
https://archive.md/SDqYr
https://archive.md/SDqYr
A book by Billie Eilish seemed like a great bet. One of the most famous pop stars in the world, Ms. Eilish has 97 million followers on Instagram and another 6 million on Twitter. If just a fraction of them bought her book, it would be a hit.
But her self-titled book has sold about 64,000 hardcover copies since it came out in May, according to NPD BookScan, which tracks most printed books sold in the United States — not necessarily a disappointing number, unless Ms. Eilish got a big advance. Which, of course, she did. The book cost her publisher well over $1 million.
It’s difficult to predict whether a book will be a hit. A jar of tomato sauce doesn’t change that much from year to year, making demand reasonably predictable. But every book is different, an individual work of art or culture, so when the publishing industry tries to forecast demand for new titles, it is, however thoughtfully, guessing. Because there are so few reliable metrics to look at, social-media followings have become some of the main data points publishers use to try to make their guesses more educated.
An author’s following has become a standard part of the equation when publishers are deciding whether to acquire a book. Followings can affect who gets a book deal and how big an advance that author is paid, especially when it comes to nonfiction. But despite their importance, they are increasingly seen as unpredictable gauges of how well a book is actually going to sell.
Even having one of the biggest social-media followings in the world is not a guarantee.
“The only reliable part about it,” said Shannon DeVito, director of books at Barnes & Noble, “is that it’s unreliable.”
An author’s platform has long been something publishers look at — does she have a radio show, for example, or a regular guest spot on TV? But as local news outlets and book coverage have dwindled, the avenues for book publicity have shrunk, making an author’s ability to help get the word out more crucial. And when an author speaks to her followers about a book she wrote, she is talking to people who are at least a little bit interested in what she has to share.
“It’s become more and more important as the years went on,” said Marc Resnick, executive editor at St. Martin’s Press. “We learned some hard lessons along the way, which is that a tweet or a post is not necessarily going to sell any books, if it’s not the right person with the right book and the right followers at the right time.”
Take Justin Timberlake. His book “Hindsight” was acquired for over $1 million, but when it came out in 2018, Mr. Timberlake had bruised vocal cords and was unable to promote it as planned. The 53 million Instagram followers he had at the time weren’t able to make up for it. “Hindsight” has sold about 100,000 printed copies since its publication three years ago, according to BookScan, not nearly the number his publisher was hoping for.
Representative Ilhan Omar, a Democrat from Minnesota, is no global pop star, but she has a significant social-media presence, with 3 million Twitter followers and another 1.3 million on Instagram. Yet her book, “This Is What America Looks Like: My Journey from Refugee to Congresswoman,” which was published in May 2020, has sold just 26,000 copies across print, audio and e-book formats, according to her publisher.
Tamika D. Mallory, a social activist with over a million Instagram followers, was paid over $1 million for a two-book deal. But her first book, “State of Emergency,” has sold just 26,000 print copies since it was published in May, according to BookScan.
The journalist and media personality Piers Morgan had a weaker showing. Despite his followers on Twitter (8 million) and Instagram (1.8 million), “Wake Up: Why the World Has Gone Nuts” has sold just 5,650 print copies since it was published a year ago, according to BookScan.
It’s difficult to know why this happens. Sometimes, publishing and marketing executives say, there is a mismatch between what people post about on social media and the subject of their books. Perhaps the books don’t provide anything beyond what they’ve already put on Instagram. It could be that the author hasn’t pushed the book to his followers effectively, or that those followers (the ones who aren’t bots, or paid for) aren’t terribly engaged with what he posts.
Or maybe the book isn’t that good. Social media is only one part of why a book does or doesn’t work, just as it is only a piece of why a book is acquired — publishers were interested in Billie Eilish’s book not just because of Instagram, but because she is Billie Eilish.
In an effort to mitigate these issues, some book contracts now specify the number of posts required before and after a book is published.
“In addition to hearing from the agent and reading the manuscript, we want to hear from the celebrity that they are invested in the book,” said Barbara Marcus, president and publisher of Random House Children’s Books. “To say, in the nicest way possible, what would you say about this project and where would this fit in with all the other things you’re doing?”
Crucially, executives say, there is also an increasing awareness in the industry about the difference between the number of followers and how engaged they really are. Do they comment? Do they share?
“There are people who stop being famous who still have their millions of followers, or people who left office eight years ago,” said Eric Nelson, the editorial director of Broadside Books. “The important thing is, why are people talking about this person? It’s about what’s driving engagement.”
A new dimension of this conversation is TikTok, which has become a powerful force in selling books. Successful “BookTok” titles are generally pushed by enthusiastic readers weeping into their camera phones about how much they loved the book, not authors shilling their own work. But book proposals by TikTok stars are now getting snapped up.
Mary Ann Naples, publisher of Hachette Books, said she recently came across a proposal by an author who had quickly built a huge TikTok following. Ms. Naples said she wanted the book, but its price shot up.
“I didn’t feel comfortable going to those heights,” she said.
There are, however, plenty of examples where a social-media following does help sell books, like “Accidentally Wes Anderson” by Wally Koval, a coffee-table book of photographs from around the world of things that look like the filmmaker’s set pieces, like a pink, yellow and blue bowling alley. Mr. Koval’s Instagram account, of the same name and concept, had over 1 million followers when the book was acquired and now has 1.6 million. The book has sold more than 100,000 copies of the hardcover since it was published in January, its publisher said.
Another book that performed well was “How to Do the Work” by Dr. Nicole LePera, a holistic psychologist with 4.4 million Instagram followers. Her Instagram bio says “I teach you to heal + consciously create a new version of yourself,” and her book has sold about 216,000 copies, according to BookScan.
Tanya McKinnon, a literary agent, said that it isn’t accurate to say that social media doesn’t matter for book sales. But the truth is that the industry doesn’t really know what it will do for any given book.
“If we knew, publishers would make no mistakes,” Ms. McKinnon said. “My whole position on this is that if you find someone who really does know, will you please share their information with me?”
But her self-titled book has sold about 64,000 hardcover copies since it came out in May, according to NPD BookScan, which tracks most printed books sold in the United States — not necessarily a disappointing number, unless Ms. Eilish got a big advance. Which, of course, she did. The book cost her publisher well over $1 million.
It’s difficult to predict whether a book will be a hit. A jar of tomato sauce doesn’t change that much from year to year, making demand reasonably predictable. But every book is different, an individual work of art or culture, so when the publishing industry tries to forecast demand for new titles, it is, however thoughtfully, guessing. Because there are so few reliable metrics to look at, social-media followings have become some of the main data points publishers use to try to make their guesses more educated.
An author’s following has become a standard part of the equation when publishers are deciding whether to acquire a book. Followings can affect who gets a book deal and how big an advance that author is paid, especially when it comes to nonfiction. But despite their importance, they are increasingly seen as unpredictable gauges of how well a book is actually going to sell.
Even having one of the biggest social-media followings in the world is not a guarantee.
“The only reliable part about it,” said Shannon DeVito, director of books at Barnes & Noble, “is that it’s unreliable.”
An author’s platform has long been something publishers look at — does she have a radio show, for example, or a regular guest spot on TV? But as local news outlets and book coverage have dwindled, the avenues for book publicity have shrunk, making an author’s ability to help get the word out more crucial. And when an author speaks to her followers about a book she wrote, she is talking to people who are at least a little bit interested in what she has to share.
“It’s become more and more important as the years went on,” said Marc Resnick, executive editor at St. Martin’s Press. “We learned some hard lessons along the way, which is that a tweet or a post is not necessarily going to sell any books, if it’s not the right person with the right book and the right followers at the right time.”
Take Justin Timberlake. His book “Hindsight” was acquired for over $1 million, but when it came out in 2018, Mr. Timberlake had bruised vocal cords and was unable to promote it as planned. The 53 million Instagram followers he had at the time weren’t able to make up for it. “Hindsight” has sold about 100,000 printed copies since its publication three years ago, according to BookScan, not nearly the number his publisher was hoping for.
Representative Ilhan Omar, a Democrat from Minnesota, is no global pop star, but she has a significant social-media presence, with 3 million Twitter followers and another 1.3 million on Instagram. Yet her book, “This Is What America Looks Like: My Journey from Refugee to Congresswoman,” which was published in May 2020, has sold just 26,000 copies across print, audio and e-book formats, according to her publisher.
Tamika D. Mallory, a social activist with over a million Instagram followers, was paid over $1 million for a two-book deal. But her first book, “State of Emergency,” has sold just 26,000 print copies since it was published in May, according to BookScan.
The journalist and media personality Piers Morgan had a weaker showing. Despite his followers on Twitter (8 million) and Instagram (1.8 million), “Wake Up: Why the World Has Gone Nuts” has sold just 5,650 print copies since it was published a year ago, according to BookScan.
It’s difficult to know why this happens. Sometimes, publishing and marketing executives say, there is a mismatch between what people post about on social media and the subject of their books. Perhaps the books don’t provide anything beyond what they’ve already put on Instagram. It could be that the author hasn’t pushed the book to his followers effectively, or that those followers (the ones who aren’t bots, or paid for) aren’t terribly engaged with what he posts.
Or maybe the book isn’t that good. Social media is only one part of why a book does or doesn’t work, just as it is only a piece of why a book is acquired — publishers were interested in Billie Eilish’s book not just because of Instagram, but because she is Billie Eilish.
In an effort to mitigate these issues, some book contracts now specify the number of posts required before and after a book is published.
“In addition to hearing from the agent and reading the manuscript, we want to hear from the celebrity that they are invested in the book,” said Barbara Marcus, president and publisher of Random House Children’s Books. “To say, in the nicest way possible, what would you say about this project and where would this fit in with all the other things you’re doing?”
Crucially, executives say, there is also an increasing awareness in the industry about the difference between the number of followers and how engaged they really are. Do they comment? Do they share?
“There are people who stop being famous who still have their millions of followers, or people who left office eight years ago,” said Eric Nelson, the editorial director of Broadside Books. “The important thing is, why are people talking about this person? It’s about what’s driving engagement.”
A new dimension of this conversation is TikTok, which has become a powerful force in selling books. Successful “BookTok” titles are generally pushed by enthusiastic readers weeping into their camera phones about how much they loved the book, not authors shilling their own work. But book proposals by TikTok stars are now getting snapped up.
Mary Ann Naples, publisher of Hachette Books, said she recently came across a proposal by an author who had quickly built a huge TikTok following. Ms. Naples said she wanted the book, but its price shot up.
“I didn’t feel comfortable going to those heights,” she said.
There are, however, plenty of examples where a social-media following does help sell books, like “Accidentally Wes Anderson” by Wally Koval, a coffee-table book of photographs from around the world of things that look like the filmmaker’s set pieces, like a pink, yellow and blue bowling alley. Mr. Koval’s Instagram account, of the same name and concept, had over 1 million followers when the book was acquired and now has 1.6 million. The book has sold more than 100,000 copies of the hardcover since it was published in January, its publisher said.
Another book that performed well was “How to Do the Work” by Dr. Nicole LePera, a holistic psychologist with 4.4 million Instagram followers. Her Instagram bio says “I teach you to heal + consciously create a new version of yourself,” and her book has sold about 216,000 copies, according to BookScan.
Tanya McKinnon, a literary agent, said that it isn’t accurate to say that social media doesn’t matter for book sales. But the truth is that the industry doesn’t really know what it will do for any given book.
“If we knew, publishers would make no mistakes,” Ms. McKinnon said. “My whole position on this is that if you find someone who really does know, will you please share their information with me?”
Two Gorillion Dollars
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2021
That article mentions St Martin's Press ("which is that a tweet or a post is not necessarily going to sell any books") who is the publisher for Ellis' work, so that's a fun little tidbit. It gives off the impression that the people involved think followers and readers are dupes who'll buy based on name recognition alone and not quality. I don't think any of them even ask the basic question: does this person's followers even want to buy a book? Was anyone asking for a Billie Eilish autobiography? Browsing some reviews makes it clear that even her fans realize that the book was just a product fuelled by money.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2017
I wasn’t even aware that Eilish dropped a book! I know she has a new album and a concert film, but not a book. Obviously her publisher is too r-tarded to take advantage of the album and concert to promote the book.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2021
Yeah thats how its used the book the axiom is that the Aliens were alone in the universe then they found humanity thus ending the axiom
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2020
Nah, she was part of cancel J. K. Rowling movement, so she thinks she can take her place, because she has her
Ninon42
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2020
@grapeshark77 That's an interesting article with good points about the inability of most celebrities to convert free internet points (aka followers) into actual money through sales. Tracking only printed copies and not digital copies sold via Kindle, Nook, Audible, etc seems like it's only telling part of the story in current year though. Of the couple dozen books I've bought this year, most were on Kindle and only 3 were actually printed. Either way, Lindsay's book did poorly on any scale.
Her conversion rate of subs-to-paypigs continues to decline, and it's a contraction not reflected by her peers so yeah, it's a Lindsay problem. She's now at a lower number of Patrons than a year ago with little-to-no social media presence and an inconsistent production rate for both videos and podcasts. Removing the $10/mo Patreon tier means any new paypigs will only be at the $2/mo level and the $10 old guard will peel away as they get literally nothing for their money.
Not that she's getting many new subs anyway. Before it flatlined, the estimate was 334/day and about 10K/mo, which is great for a new creator but for a professional, not ideal.
She still has 1.19M subs, sponsors and paypigs paying by the month, not video, so a long way from insolvent but not exactly keeping her in the manner to which she has grown accustomed if her overhead and employee expenses remain high. I think she might move to Texas within a year because of the better opportunities for both her and the cuck.
Here's a YouTuber going over his income quite openly as well as his investments. Lindsay would do well to follow his lead lol. Unfortunately, it just shows that if he's making around $60K/mo at 335K subs and no sponsors, she's pissed away an obscene amount of money over the years on buying friends, booze and Disney trips rather than squirreling cash away for the inevitable decline.
Her conversion rate of subs-to-paypigs continues to decline, and it's a contraction not reflected by her peers so yeah, it's a Lindsay problem. She's now at a lower number of Patrons than a year ago with little-to-no social media presence and an inconsistent production rate for both videos and podcasts. Removing the $10/mo Patreon tier means any new paypigs will only be at the $2/mo level and the $10 old guard will peel away as they get literally nothing for their money.
Not that she's getting many new subs anyway. Before it flatlined, the estimate was 334/day and about 10K/mo, which is great for a new creator but for a professional, not ideal.
She still has 1.19M subs, sponsors and paypigs paying by the month, not video, so a long way from insolvent but not exactly keeping her in the manner to which she has grown accustomed if her overhead and employee expenses remain high. I think she might move to Texas within a year because of the better opportunities for both her and the cuck.
Here's a YouTuber going over his income quite openly as well as his investments. Lindsay would do well to follow his lead lol. Unfortunately, it just shows that if he's making around $60K/mo at 335K subs and no sponsors, she's pissed away an obscene amount of money over the years on buying friends, booze and Disney trips rather than squirreling cash away for the inevitable decline.
Boston Brand
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
Those declining numbers gave me a half chub. Beautiful!
Yeah, the quote from St. Martin's Press is particularly interesting... by all accounts, of all the spec fiction publishers, they were the ones snookered the most into awarding advances and contracts based on social media.
Lindsay is proof positive that doesn't work, and that quote shows maybe they have learned thier lesson... I know one longtime author of thiers who left them for Baen specifically over thier not marketing his books instead of flash in the pan social media stars.
Also, my publisher is (finally) renewing our BookScan subscription accounts at the start of next year. So for all those curious about Lindsay's actual sales numbers... I will be able to pull them.
Any bets on if she flames out at the Hugos in a couple of weeks?
Yeah, the quote from St. Martin's Press is particularly interesting... by all accounts, of all the spec fiction publishers, they were the ones snookered the most into awarding advances and contracts based on social media.
Lindsay is proof positive that doesn't work, and that quote shows maybe they have learned thier lesson... I know one longtime author of thiers who left them for Baen specifically over thier not marketing his books instead of flash in the pan social media stars.
Also, my publisher is (finally) renewing our BookScan subscription accounts at the start of next year. So for all those curious about Lindsay's actual sales numbers... I will be able to pull them.
Any bets on if she flames out at the Hugos in a couple of weeks?
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2020
Axioms End is just Beauty and the Beast/Hades and Persephone but with aliens
So the alien basically made the girl his mate without asking her consent first? That's rich coming from someone who screeched about how Reylo is abusive and problematic and how Ariel is bad for women...
edit: Oh, another pairing Lindsay has a hard-on for is Basil/Rattigan (or at least she believes Rattigan is Basil's bitter ex-boyfriend). Guess what kind of relationship the main alien and the villain alien had?
So the alien basically made the girl his mate without asking her consent first? That's rich coming from someone who screeched about how Reylo is abusive and problematic and how Ariel is bad for women...
edit: Oh, another pairing Lindsay has a hard-on for is Basil/Rattigan (or at least she believes Rattigan is Basil's bitter ex-boyfriend). Guess what kind of relationship the main alien and the villain alien had?
Arthur Morgan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2019
Hopefully they've finally learned their lesson. Wonder how much of an advance they gave Lindsay. Probably to much.
Okay, so is this the reason she walked back her critique on Twilight and said there's nothing wrong with it?
Also, woman with a soy husband has what is basically a rape fantasy. Color me shocked.
Boston Brand
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
They one hundred percent gave her too large an advance and are bleeding money over her books. Only reason who books jumped from new release to clearance bins and wholesalers faster than most books by politicians is because the publisher is taking a bath on them.
And of course she walked back her criticism of Twilight - as horrifying as it is to say, Stephanie Meyer is a far better writer than Ellis is. To say nothing of Ellis hitting many of the same beats and tropes with much less skill than Twilight... the new book probably is the worst example of book PTSD since New Moon.
God I need a shower after admitting that. Several.
Ninon42
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2020
Damning with the very faintest of praise lol. Her delusional simps who have read nothing but Harry Potter, internet fanfic and young adult lit think it's great though
Lindsay did that whole Omegaverse rape fic liveread with her clique at the start of her video on the subject (first 2:30 minutes)
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- Joined
- Oct 5, 2018
You ever notice it's always the dumpy shrill harpy feminists that scream about "rape culture" but then get off to shit like this and never the drop dead gorgeous and successful women that they oh so desperately wish they were deep down? I wonder if there's some sort of fucked up freudian theory that could explain this other than "dumpy wine aunt is sexually frustrated and can only get off/get laid is through creepy rapey shit".
Back on track: LMAO fucking Ellis is getting wrecked and her booze savings are getting tighter with each blunder she puts out. Hope she likes learning some temperance and maybe not throwing your colleagues under the bus.
Boston Brand
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
Temperance? Lets be real, if Ellis needs to start trimming the fat from the budget, it will be her hangers on she keeps on payroll way before she cuts booze from her budget.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2020
Especially since the alien is a weird horse/insect thingy, no one besides bronys will this "hot". I don't even know why she put it in there, considering AE is apparently "science fiction", not YA, because being a YA writer is too low for Lindsay's intellectual standards.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
I think part of it was it was the cool thing to hate on the Internet for the tail end of the Bush Administration. And the first Obama term.
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- Joined
- Aug 15, 2016
- Highlight
- #9,040
Twilight was an easy target but it’s not like bashing it led to better literature. In fact, it got much worse from there. Give me sparkly vampires over drag queens and intersectional bullshit any day.