Containment Official Decision Regarding Gender and Chris/Gender Discussion Megathread -

[BT 075]

I want to see it from Chris himself first. I want to see hear him say he wants to go by female pronouns. I don't want to take Waterman's word for it, because Waterman's a tryhard ween. Need some official confirmation from the big guy himself.

If Chris is serious about his new gender identity, I might actually support him and go for her and she. I don't wanna go for "it" because it reminds me of Vade, and I won't use "they" either because it gives me an uncomfy Tumblr vibe. So if he wants to be a lady, a lady's pronouns it will be for me.

I believe no one should be stopped from refering to Chris as a dude, because he's not the most persistent of people and the forums should not be some sort of politically correct circlejerk where opposing views are swept under the rug. It's up to anyone what to call him, and I'll stick to "him" until further notice.

TL;DR: No one should be forced to call Chris anything, simply because at the end of the day, it's still Chris.

 

[Fredegunde]

I'll start referring to Chris as a she when we get more definite confirmation. (Things like whether or not s/he is changing names, etc.)

Honestly? I don't really feel that Chris is a trans woman. I know I've said that before. But out of fairness, he's never really been much of a man either, except in the most strictly biological sense --- so I guess calling him she is realistically no more absurd than calling him he.

Also, I support Chris identifying as trans even though I don't really believe it, tbh, because this might be the one thing that will actually motivate him/her/CWCself to go get actual qualified psychiatric help.

 

[Marvin]

That said, I have trouble believing Chris is actually trans. It just doesn't seem to fit with...well, anything we know about him. Crossdressing and transgenderism aren't the same, and I'm guessing Chris is too stupid to realize that there's a difference between wearing feminine clothing and makeup and actually identifying as a woman.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Chris identifies as a woman. This only took as long as it did due to a lack of information on the subject. (I mean, it exists all over the internet, but Chris wasn't aware of what he was looking for.)

I'm okay with referring to trans people by their preferred pronoun as long as they understand that it's a simple courtesy given out of an abundance of consideration for their feelings, not an inherent right, and that no one is obliged to ignore biological reality in order to make them happy.

Social reality is not the same thing as biological reality. You can only 100% confirm someone's biological sex with a blood test.

Socially speaking, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

 

[timtommy]

I've always been of the opinion, in regards to Trans people, that they're whatever gender they want to be called. You say you're a woman? Have it, it's your life. So, applying that rule to Chris, I'll probably refer to Chris as she, but I won't begrudge/get angry at anyone who calls her a him.

(Plus I'll probably forget inside a week and go back to call Chris a him)

My philosophy is a bit harsher.

If someone is born a man and sometimes dresses or acts like a woman, I use a male pronoun. I will use the female pronoun only if they entirely give up their male identity. Name change, always appearing in public as a woman, ideally hormone treatments and/or a formal sex change operations. At that point I will use a female pronoun.

I don't go back and forth or use alternative terms.

Basically, if someone wants to go on a journey of experimentation and self-discovery, that's fine for them, but I don't feel obliged to keep up with the latest. I am willing to make a one time only switch if and when their journey discovering their own gender reaches an end.

I have reasons for doing this which I don't want to get into too much. Basically, I know that gender dysphoria is a real thing and people who deal with it should be respected and given the treatment they need to feel complete. But when I was a teenager I had a couple acquantances who ended up "exploring" gender issues. The community was so eager to be "supportive" of their gender issues that they ended up pushing them towards hormone treatments they ended up regretting.

Maybe that experience has soured me too much, but it has led me to conclude that a child (which Chris is, in most respects) who is experiencing what they perceive is a gender identity crisis should not be pushed into anything but counselling until a clear conclusion is reached.

So for now, I plan to continue to refer to Chris with male pronouns. I realize that when I do this, most people who read it won't have read or won't remember this message. But if you do, I would like to say once and for all that I don't do it out of disrespect for Chris or other people with gender identity disorders, I do it out of concern and a belief that it is a serious thing not to be decided flippantly.

 

[wheat pasta]

CWCself

lesbian-soul tomgirl
16 on the inside
cwc cwcs cwcself pronouns

 

[Da Big Staw]

Seems a pretty good call. People calling chris a women is confusing to me but as long they make it clear they are referring to him i don't mind too much.

idk about the "real tranny issue", If we excluded anyone with mental illness, a fucked up life ect.. from being a real tranny would we have any left?

On the other hand, I don't actually think Chris really understands the whole issue.

 

[Drawets Rednaxela]

He's not a woman, he's just really confused. Somehow he's gotten it into his head that men are bad and women are good - apparantly he's not holding his high school gal-pals pretending to be his friends against them. But then he can hardly be concidered a man either. Men don't realisticly aspire to sit on their ass all day playin' vidya while women wait on them hand and foot. Rather, Chris is neither a man nor a woman. He is at best a child. A child whose life has been seriously screwed up by forces largely beyond his control.

In the long run, this decision by Chris will change absolutely nothing.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Seems a pretty good call. People calling chris a women is confusing to me but as long they make it clear they are referring to him i don't mind too much.

idk about the "real tranny issue", If we excluded anyone with mental illness, a fucked up life ect.. from being a real tranny would we have any left?

On the other hand, I don't actually think Chris really understands the whole issue.

About this... I don't get to kick Fedoras out of the white guy club just because they sucketh mightily. All tranny lolcows are funny because of their hysterics and unwarranted self-importance -that's true for lolcows in general.

 

[Billy_Sama]

As usually, I don't really take Chris seriously. I think male resentment, jealously, and homophobia is contributing a part in his gender identification.

 

[blackie toy]

I want to call Chris a "xir", or something else that's made up.
Fuck off.

Thank you based Null.

 

[Ancani]

Social reality is not the same thing as biological realtity. You can only 100% confirm someone's biological sex with a blood test.

Socially speaking, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Pretty much my view, though it's worth considering genitalia as well. Especially since chromosomal abnormalities like Klinefelter's syndrome (which is when a male has two X chromosomes and a Y chromosome) exist--so for instance, a man could identify as male, look male, have a dick, and still technically fall under the heading of being intersex/hermaphroditic. And those anomalies are surprisingly common (the one I mentioned occurring in around 1/1000th of live male births, which is way more than it seems).

Honestly, if someone identifies as transgender, I think that should be respected (within reason--if someone tells me they're a ~*demifluid femme nanogirl*~ or whatever, I'm going to side-eye the fuck outta them).

Now, all that being said, there is an issue with people who "try on" different genders, so to speak. In addition to the creeps on Tumblr who seem to change their gender identity every week, I've known some people (including one close friend) who have had genuine gender dysphoria and honestly viewed themselves as trans, and later stopped feeling that dysphoria entirely and gone back to identifying as cis. (Generally that's due to hormone imbalances, IIRC, but I could be wrong.)

So when it comes up super suddenly like this--like, going from identifying as male to identifying as female overnight or whatever--I'm inclined to believe it's (for lack of a better word) a phase. And granted, I've only seen that happen with teens and twentysomethings, but as you've all said, Chris essentially is a child, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's just going through a very teenager-ish gender exploration phase thing right now.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

Chris is a child in the body of a middle-aged man. He's a redneck who became famous through the Internet. He was born to parents old enough to be grandparents. He's autistic but he was raised in the mainstream. He thinks cartoon characters are real. He's been and continues to be fooled by trolls over and over again. He believes he has magic powers. He thinks he's a genius, but can't even spell "genius." Basically, his entire reality is fubar. I don't believe he legitimately is trans, because his head is so messed up that I don't think he has any form of easily-categorised sexual identity. He doesn't understand sex, sexuality or gender in any mature sense.

If he starts going about it properly - sees his doctor, goes through the requisite stages and generally makes it clear beyond any possible doubt that this is a genuine, serious thing that's been properly thought through, and is being dealt with safely and professionally with expert advice, then I'll start referring to Chris as "she." Until then, though, I'm going to assume what I've always assumed, i.e. that Chris is a horny, lonely transvestite with mommy issues, filled with self-loathing and depression, and cutting his willy off won't solve nuthin'.

 

[BOLDYSPICY!]

I'd leave out the bit about "Chris is a man and will never be a woman."

I'm with Champ on this one, but for a slightly different reason. While I think Chris is too sexist & misogynistic to be legit trans himself, I think that can be interpreted as "TRANS PEOPLE AREN'T REAL MEN/WOMEN", which is bullshit. Everything else seems fine, though.

EDIT: Kinda ironic that the new (default?) kiwifarms.net layout kinda reminds me of a Tumblr blog.

 

[StallChaser]

I'll probably switch back and forth. It's Chris we're talking about, and he always approaches things from the weirdest way imaginable. Who the hell knows what he's really thinking? It'll be sort of like how Sonichu is technically supposed to be a pokemon, but more people think of him as a shitty sonic recolor than a shitty hedgehog pokemon.

 

[MrsFrizzle]

If Chris wants to be called "she" then it's polite of me to do so. She needs to shave a lot more often, or get electrolysis, because her stubble looks fucking terrible.

 

[Ancani]

It's all relative, isn't it? There are manly men, femaley women, manly women and femaley men, so saying "Real men don't...", or "A real woman wouldn't..." is a crock. There's a reason people are like they are. Sometimes a femaley man meets a manly woman, and the rocks in her head fit the holes in his.

In case you think it used to be easier in the olden days, I asked my grandmother --- mother of 6, grandmother of 13, great-mother of 6 so far --- what it means to "identify as a biological woman." She gave me a searching look, and said, "I have no idea."

This, pretty much. Gender's actually pretty complex in that regard. I mean...using myself as an example, I was extremely androgynous for some portions of my youth, completely shunning all things "girly," cutting my hair short, having "boyish" interests, the whole nine yards. And I got pissed when people mistook me for a boy, because...well, I wasn't one!

And there's plenty of people who are like that their entire lives, which is also fine. *shrug*

Also, thirding Champ and BOLDYSPICY. That part really doesn't sit well with me.

 

[DrChristianTroy]

Considering the whole "SJWs for everything and I need to make that clear everywhere" mindset members can sometimes nice to see staff take the "Who cares, just don't be a douche" mindset.

 

[Zim]

I'm also not sure Chris knows exactly what he is or wants. Sure, he identifies more with women however I still think this is more motivated by his never ending quest to find a girlfriend and get laid. Just the nature of what he asked one of the members here about being more of a slut sort of puts this in my head. He failed to get any without paying for it as a man so now he figures since women totally are in control of sex and have an easier time of it he'll become a woman instead.

I could be wrong but this is sort of what it looks like to me.

 

[Treblinkachu]

Why should I respect his wishes? Transgender or not, he's still just a retard I laugh at on the internet.

 

[Lucky Wildcard]

Oh, dear... I'm scared... His latest pics of him did have him appear more feminine than normal...