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Austrian Conscript 1915

9/11=DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO Australia
kiwifarms.net
First of all: China is quite happy to fund the US military, because that keeps the US in the Middle East, and keeps the Muslims out of China. (Which, if you didn't know, China currently tends to despise and fear the Muslims.) By the way, China has been throwing any Muslims they catch in fucking concentration camps. That is how much they hate them. So yes, it is a fucking investment to the Chinese officials.
Are any muslims emigrating to China? I can't tell if you're serious or not. China is an authoritarian country, they will just turn around refugees at the border.

Second of all: Despite the chasm of political and ideological differences between the 2 governments, Chinese officials have quite the vested interest in buying up the US debt, because the dollar is much stronger than the Chinese Yuan (AKA the Renminbi). Their inflation is so bad that 7 of their dollars equals $1 in the US.
Use Occam's razor, they are investing in US debt as a weapon not as some scheme to make more money, which by the way China is a large currency manipulator so it wouldn't matter anyways. And that's not bad inflation by the way, that's actually relatively good for a country like China.
 

muh_moobs

Lord of mspaint shitposts
kiwifarms.net
Are any muslims emigrating to China? I can't tell if you're serious or not. China is an authoritarian country, they will just turn around refugees at the border.


Use Occam's razor, they are investing in US debt as a weapon not as some scheme to make more money, which by the way China is a large currency manipulator so it wouldn't matter anyways. And that's not bad inflation by the way, that's actually relatively good for a country like China.
There's no such thing as "good inflation". I understand that as a person who like to pay taxes on other taxes this is likely something difficult for you to understand, but this is once again the truth.
 

BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
Are any muslims emigrating to China? I can't tell if you're serious or not. China is an authoritarian country, they will just turn around refugees at the border.
Have you heard of 9/11? Besides the fact that they have millions of Muslims living there and again are THROWING MUSLIMS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS...

...China went on the warpath about Muslims since the war on terrorism cropped up, and they're much closer to the middle east than the USA.
Look at a map, I dare you.

Use Occam's razor, they are investing in US debt as a weapon not as some scheme to make more money, which by the way China is a large currency manipulator so it wouldn't matter anyways. And that's not bad inflation by the way, that's actually relatively good for a country like China.
This just reeks of talking out of your ass.

I'm going to crosspost another kiwi who covered this same question rather well. China has no motivation to kill off the USA. Some political power plays maybe, but economically, just no. You're starting to sound like a "Muh China is gonna invade the USA" boomer.

You're correct and you aren't. China may despise U.S. influence, U.S. social values and, in a perfect world, the yuan would sit in the pivotal role our U.S. dollar does. The problem is unseating the dollar and replacing it simply isn't feasible. At the very least, it's not going to happen within our lifetime.

American treasury bonds are simply too stable of an asset in every regard, far more stable than anything China could offer (for reasons that may be summarized as 'shit infrastructure and a revolution every century'). Very few powerful organizations (such as world banks) have any interest in schemes to unseat the dollar, either; this would require transferring all of their assets to a new, replacement currency. The replacement almost certainly won't have hundreds of years of relative stability, and the replacement process is unlikely to be a straight 1:1 transfer. I could write a hundred-thousand words in this post, and I still wouldn't describe every hardship replacing the U.S. dollar entails.

All of this concerns China for two reasons. First: the single largest aspect of their GDP relies chiefly on U.S. participation, and the involvement of the dollar. If the United States hard-blocked all American-associated trade with China tomorrow (presumably through magic), it would decimate the country's livelihood faster than the collapse of the Three Gorges dam. Second: the Chinese aren't stupid. They are aware their nation resides in an economic bubble, which is why they are purchasing assets overseas. This includes the United States, and again, it often includes the dollar.

Mind you, I'm not saying that China doesn't tamper in foreign affairs. The point I'm making is a second U.S. civil war would throw the strength of the dollar into question. How can the U.S. government support treasury bonds, for example, if they are at risk of being usurped? This weakening of the U.S. dollar would kill off much of the world economy, would kill off a remarkable amount of Chinese wealth, and the collapse of China's economy would result in wide-scale revolt that makes the An Lushan Rebellion look like the Pig War of 1859.
 

Austrian Conscript 1915

9/11=DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO Australia
kiwifarms.net
Have you heard of 9/11? Besides the fact that they have millions of Muslims living there and again are THROWING MUSLIMS IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS...

...China went on the warpath about Muslims since the war on terrorism cropped up, and they're much closer to the middle east than the USA.
Look at a map, I dare you.
What? China has a problem with Uyghurs so they're going to fund US wars in the middle east to genocide all muslims? i think you're talking out of your ass if that's what you really think. do I really have to explain why this is just flat out wrong?

This just reeks of talking out of your ass.

I'm going to crosspost another kiwi who covered this same question rather well. China has no motivation to kill off the USA. Some political power plays maybe, but economically, just no. You're starting to sound like a "Muh China is gonna invade the USA" boomer.
China doesn't have to do anything to the United States physically, they are already funding marxist professors in the US to continue the ideological subversion started by the USSR. And the US dollar isn't stable, I'm a firm believer in the petro dollar and sooner or later the dollar will collapse and China knows this. The Chinese economy will recede because of a demographic shift so their plan for the future is to turn inwards and become autarks. You're right in saying that they have no plans to destroy the US, but not for the reasons you and the other guy stated
 

BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
China's military is shit garbage compared to the USA. No one said the USA is genociding Muslims, making fake straw mans doesn't help you here.

China is getting rid of Muslims internally, and likes the USA in the Middle East to discourage any from coming near them. Facts are facts.
 

muh_moobs

Lord of mspaint shitposts
kiwifarms.net
China's military is shit garbage compared to the USA. No one said the USA is genociding Muslims, making fake straw mans doesn't help you here.

China is getting rid of Muslims internally, and likes the USA in the Middle East to discourage any from coming near them. Facts are facts.
But he said America bad like a good Cancuck, so he must be right!
 

doulomb

kiwifarms.net
I try my best to avoid giving negative reactions to posts, but when you are being wilfully obtuse its kind of hard to assume you are acting in good faith.

Saying that China is only investing in US assets to weaponize them is pretty bizarre, when they very clearly use them for the same reason every other country does: because USD is the currency of exchange. Almost every country on this planet keeps US financial instruments because they are accepted universally, and have a good credit rating. North Korea desperately tries to get their hands on USD because no one will trade with them for their worthless Juche-bux. Its not some 5000-D chess move when North Korea does it either.

Between Nation states, you either use Gold or USD for exchanges.


the U.S. dollar is the most popular. As of the fourth quarter of 2019, it makes up over 60% of all known central bank foreign exchange reserves. That makes it the de facto global currency, even though it doesn't hold an official title.

The next closest reserve currency is the euro. It makes up 20% of known central bank foreign currency reserves
I guess this must just be propaganda to hide the fact that the YUAN is the real global currency lmfao.

This Covid shit proved to me that the Chinese dream of hegemony has died in its cradle.
 

Fapcop

kiwifarms.net
The thing about the smugness nitpick is it is objectively true, which is why we're talking about it. Was part of how this discussion started, in the other thread, when I cross-posted it over here.

We can comb over the fine points of the of both countries and find things that are valid criticisms, but ultimately out of the control of the average person; it is gonna get to be geopolitical one-ups-manship after a point. What's more relevant here, is how those huge abstract issues things are being perceived in cultural identity.
My point was more that it’s based in cultural/national insecurity. But ultimately is pretty silly since the two countries are so much alike.

If you took someone from France and let him live a month in Hamilton and a month in Buffalo, he’d be hard pressed to come up with an answer if you asked him what the major differences were, or what was uniquely Canadian.

Rather than a Canadian or American culture, you could talk about a North American culture.

The only ones who come close to being culturally distinct in a major way are the Québécois.


Our healthcare is free but you get what you pay for. The meme about getting your feelings checked isn't just a meme. Expect 4 hour plus wait times in emergency in a small city on a slow evening. There's not enough doctors and the ones we have are overworked and underpaid; meaning they will pack up and move to the US so they can make a "decent wage". If you need any sort of thing from a specialist, expect wait times of 6+ months for stuff like CT scans or MRI's unless you're dying.
Dear lord yes! I’ve spent 8 hours waiting in Canadian ERs, because it was full of people coming in with the flu or a scratchy throat. (Surprise! When healthcare is free, people tend to overuse it. Which is why many European countries have moved towards co payment.)

I was seen instantly in American ERs for basically the same issue.

If I had to choose healthcare anywhere (without worry about payment!) I’d def choose American.

Europe seems to have a good middle way between the two, with nationalized healthcare but also private options for those who want/can afford that.

(Not saying that the same would be right for the US. All the public healthcare systems in Europe were set up decades ago, and couldn’t just be transplanted to work in the US today.)
 

BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
My point was more that it’s based in cultural/national insecurity. But ultimately is pretty silly since the two countries are so much alike.
I think your opinion is objectively good. It's just cultural identity and perception.

A lot of the world would see no difference between the actual people from the USA or Canada--They'd both just fall under "Person from North America, where they have it rich"
 
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AnOminous

But I'm not mad at anyone.
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I guess this must just be propaganda to hide the fact that the YUAN is the real global currency lmfao.
It's shit and nobody uses it because they manipulate it out the ass for all kinds of international trade cheating. Nobody can trust it as an asset, not even Chinese, who avoid it like the plague if they're lucky enough to have enough money to care about.
 

discombobulate

kiwifarms.net
Statistics Canada has been compiling this data for years, we know that there has been a decline in manufacturing because it is an objective fact as reported by the government ministries, which, by the way, have a vested interest in making sure the Canadian economy looks strong. I would like to take a look at your sources because I simply don't believe them.

You can't read your own sources, apparently, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering to give you one. Your source is about a decline in employment in manufacturing, which, no shit, has gone down. It's not reflective of the health of the industry in any way: only Marxists and demagogues directly relate labor and value; shit got disproven long ago. Agricultural employment has also gone down as a share of total employment in both the US and Canada but it would take a retard of substantial disability to argue that the agricultural sectors in either country are in decline. Manufacturing itself has still gone up and only took a hit with the recession; industry health is measured in output not inputs and labor is an input. Forcing all construction workers to use spoons in Canada instead of heavy equipment would drastically increase employment in the sector while decreasing actual output but by your standards that would be great for the industry.

comparative advantage is a crock of shit. All these free trade faggots professing the miracles of comparative advantage when in reality, in real life, businesses try to vertically integrate. A match stick company will try to buy the lumber mills because it's more efficient, apple buys rare earth mines (but obfuscate the fact that they own them because "blood diamonds" and such) because buying them from another company is more expensive. I would like to talk more about why the western world is suffering under free trade, however that's not a particularly pressing point.
Utterly stupid. You clearly don't understand comparative advantage because vertical integration has little to do with it. I imagine it's because you're trying to apply the simple two-product model to the real economy, which is obviously dumb. Companies try to vertically integrate when they have comparative advantage in supplying that product to themselves, not just because. Tesla has taken a beating with their questionable integration of the distribution network (mostly because they had stopped paying them and had to do it themselves), while other automakers are perfectly happy to let other companies deal with the shipping and retail purchases. Apple gets involved in fabs because their model relies on the in-house production rather than outsourcing, but almost every other electronics maker doesn't get very involved - they just send the patterns to a fab and pay them for it.

US debt does change when it is bought and sold, in a practical sense. The person holding the debt can now do what they please with it. There's no benefit of being in debt, and being in debt to your enemy is even worse. Do you believe that China accrued all this US debt for nothing? The Chinese know they have American companies by the balls, banking protections don't matter when the country you're dealing with can cripple you by shutting you out of their country. US companies would be more than willing to pay their debts if China really made a point about. And them receiving payments at a loss isn't as important as you think, remember, China is the number one currency manipulator in the world.
US government debt is unrelated to the debt implied by currency. The debt implied by currency only increases when there is a real increase in the value of the dollar or a stagnant value but no inflation and it isn't a claim on government funds but a claim on the ability to procure services in the US (and nearly everywhere else). The debt the government takes on to keep the value stagnant is a potential problem but still isn't held directly by China. Even the debt held by the Chinese is held by them as a growth strategy, only slightly as a strategic concern. The yuan sucks and China intentionally and unwisely makes it suck. The dollar is always doing better in comparison so it's profitable for China and Chinese companies and individuals to buy government debt in the form of bonds. Most of it isn't callable debt and the debt that can be called would be significantly discounted for calling it early. The only way they can hurt the USFG through the debt is to suddenly sell it all off, which would be a huge loss for not much gain: the USFG and the individual companies still got the original money and artificial shocks quickly work themselves out now.

Chinese party officials don't rely on US investments, once again do you think the Chinese government is really that stupid as to let their party members get entangled in foreign business? Even if they are there is an easy way out as provided by the Chinese government.
Umm, yes? There's a reason the recent sanctions on CCP officials pissed them off so much that they tried to place sanctions on US officials. I'm not sure what way out there is: sure the Chinese government could buy off their US investments but that's still not as good for the individual officials as just continuing to hold their investments and strictly worse for the government.

All you need to do is look at the stock market. Supposedly we are in a global recession but the stocks just keep going up. The same with GDP except (((they))) can't hide it that well so we're seeing it decline slightly, in reality the GDP of countries right now should be record lows but the big nose billionaires are playing with smoke and mirrors
Stocks in industries seeing a recession and countries in a general recession are low, very low. If you're going based off of the big stock market indices then you're actually looking mostly at individual firms in industries that aren't as affected; software and tech companies that don't need to lay people off because they can just work at home. Record lows? WTF are you talking about? Record lows would be in the distant past or at least during wartime.
 
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Austrian Conscript 1915

9/11=DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO Australia
kiwifarms.net
The best way to describe China's relationship with the US was described by someone I don't remember, but his metaphor is entirely accurate, it went something like this: "The US and China are like 2 long legged giants balancing on each other for support, one giant can't make the other one fall without making itself fall." We got lost in the details when trying to describe China's trade relationship with the US, of course the US is more independent from China than China is on the US, but that's only marginal.

Utterly stupid. You clearly don't understand comparative advantage because vertical integration has little to do with it. I imagine it's because you're trying to apply the simple two-product model to the real economy, which is obviously dumb. Companies try to vertically integrate when they have comparative advantage in supplying that product to themselves, not just because. Tesla has taken a beating with their questionable integration of the distribution network (mostly because they had stopped paying them and had to do it themselves), while other automakers are perfectly happy to let other companies deal with the shipping and retail purchases. Apple gets involved in fabs because their model relies on the in-house production rather than outsourcing, but almost every other electronics maker doesn't get very involved - they just send the patterns to a fab and pay them for it.
Imagine you have a car company but instead of making all the car parts yourself you buy from companies that make the suspensions, tires, steel frames and your company just puts it all together. What happens if one of those companies decides to not sell to you anymore? you're fucked and you lose a lot of money. Maybe it would be expensive to start your own rubberization plant to make tires, but what else can you make with a rubberization plant? Now your company can branch off into other things because now you make tires. When you have your industry in your own country it may or may not be immediately more profitable than buying it from somewhere else from someone who can produce it more efficiently. But by buying from somewhere else you're seceding capabilities to those other companies or countries. The profitability of that industry is incidental to the long term economic development of your country.

When the Japanese decided they wanted their own car industry they raised tariffs on foreign cars and for a while the Japanese were stuck with shitty expensive low quality cars, but look at their car industry now. Japan now has rubberization, machine tools, steel works, glass works, these industries then help them build other things which require those resources.

If Japan had said "the US has a comparative advantage in making cars so we'll do something else" they would've lost all this stuff they have now
 

discombobulate

kiwifarms.net
This is the last time I'm going to respond to you because it's clear you don't understand economics or business anywhere near how you presented yourself. Why, oh why, would you pick the auto industry as an example if you don't know its history or how it works?

Imagine you have a car company but instead of making all the car parts yourself you buy from companies that make the suspensions, tires, steel frames and your company just puts it all together. What happens if one of those companies decides to not sell to you anymore? you're fucked and you lose a lot of money. Maybe it would be expensive to start your own rubberization plant to make tires, but what else can you make with a rubberization plant? Now your company can branch off into other things because now you make tires. When you have your industry in your own country it may or may not be immediately more profitable than buying it from somewhere else from someone who can produce it more efficiently. But by buying from somewhere else you're seceding capabilities to those other companies or countries. The profitability of that industry is incidental to the long term economic development of your country.
Auto companies actually don't make their own tires. For the most part tire companies are left to their own design and the auto companies only get involved for trademark purposes and promotions. They don't get very involved in sourcing the rubber nor in other rubber products. Ford used to be involved in rubber plantations but abandoned that when it became cheaper to source it from the East Indies (read: after we nuked Japan). They make suspension systems and steel frames in-house because factories, Ford's main productive assets, are good at doing that. They don't have much of a problem with one company refusing to deal with them because 1) that rarely happens and 2) they diversify their sources in case one supplier sees a shock. Development economics (home industries) has been discredited by the experiences of developing countries: no amount of protectionism and direct investment in domestic industries led the third world into a Western standard of living. Japan got fucked over in the late 80s because they bought into it and learned it's ridiculously expensive and only really benefited the corporations themselves: they've been in a hard-then-soft recession the entire time since. China and India have only seen rising standards in industries that were opened to foreign investment and ownership (convoluted as it is in China). NK and Cuba are at the extreme end of direct investment into home industries and the Netherlands and Scandinavia are at the other end; I assume you know where you would prefer to live.

When the Japanese decided they wanted their own car industry they raised tariffs on foreign cars and for a while the Japanese were stuck with shitty expensive low quality cars, but look at their car industry now. Japan now has rubberization, machine tools, steel works, glass works, these industries then help them build other things which require those resources.

If Japan had said "the US has a comparative advantage in making cars so we'll do something else" they would've lost all this stuff they have now
Now you're looking at a country rather than individual firms. Your claim was that businesses try to vertically integrate and that integration disproves comparative advantage and nothing about countries integrating. It's also not a good argument: Japanese automakers broke into the US market because they had a comparative advantage in those "shitty expensive low quality cars," they were also fuel efficient at a time where fuel efficiency was paramount in the US, both by legislation and because of the oil shocks. US makers tried to make similar cars but they were not very good at it and it was more expensive. And that's just the US market: US autos have never been very popular in much of Asia because they've always been large but Japanese autos fit that niche very well. This demonstrates the utility of understanding comparative advantage, it doesn't disprove it. If you really don't believe in comparative advantage then you should try starting a cattle ranch in Egypt or a semi fab in Tunisia and let me know if it's just as profitable as in the US.
 

Austrian Conscript 1915

9/11=DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO Australia
kiwifarms.net
It seems someone can't handle the unspeakable truths of protectionism and the benefit it has. The corn laws were a great benefit to Britain, German cartels helped the development of the German empire, and dairy cartels in Canada maintain Canada's advantage in the dairy industry.
Auto companies actually don't make their own tires. For the most part tire companies are left to their own design and the auto companies only get involved for trademark purposes and promotions. They don't get very involved in sourcing the rubber nor in other rubber products. Ford used to be involved in rubber plantations but abandoned that when it became cheaper to source it from the East Indies (read: after we nuked Japan). They make suspension systems and steel frames in-house because factories, Ford's main productive assets, are good at doing that. They don't have much of a problem with one company refusing to deal with them because 1) that rarely happens and 2) they diversify their sources in case one supplier sees a shock. Development economics (home industries) has been discredited by the experiences of developing countries: no amount of protectionism and direct investment in domestic industries led the third world into a Western standard of living. Japan got fucked over in the late 80s because they bought into it and learned it's ridiculously expensive and only really benefited the corporations themselves: they've been in a hard-then-soft recession the entire time since. China and India have only seen rising standards in industries that were opened to foreign investment and ownership (convoluted as it is in China). NK and Cuba are at the extreme end of direct investment into home industries and the Netherlands and Scandinavia are at the other end; I assume you know where you would prefer to live.
Replace the car industry with anything else, and, by the way, Japan only has the rubberization industry because of their tariffs, whether or not mitsubishi deals with other companies is irrelevant because those companies are located in Japan. We live in an era where there's no tensions between the developed industrial nations of the world, but things will change and we will see companies refuse service to other companies because of the changing political tides. It is foolish to think that this Jewish global economy will last forever. It's like your economic scope is set for the past 40 years, do you even know about the 1880s 1890s and 1900s? global politics are inseparable from global trade.

Korea became a first world nation from protectionism, as well as China, Germany (or Prussia depending on how you look on it), Japan and Türkiye, and it wouldn't be too bad living in those countries. Communism isn't too bad either, as I've said before the Soviet Union wasn't actually too bad to live in.

Now you're looking at a country rather than individual firms. Your claim was that businesses try to vertically integrate and that integration disproves comparative advantage and nothing about countries integrating. It's also not a good argument: Japanese automakers broke into the US market because they had a comparative advantage in those "shitty expensive low quality cars," they were also fuel efficient at a time where fuel efficiency was paramount in the US, both by legislation and because of the oil shocks. US makers tried to make similar cars but they were not very good at it and it was more expensive. And that's just the US market: US autos have never been very popular in much of Asia because they've always been large but Japanese autos fit that niche very well. This demonstrates the utility of understanding comparative advantage, it doesn't disprove it. If you really don't believe in comparative advantage then you should try starting a cattle ranch in Egypt or a semi fab in Tunisia and let me know if it's just as profitable as in the US.
Countries and firms are comparable. Japanese car companies got into the US when the US and Japan both agreed to lower tariffs. And what does it say about US car makers that they weren't able to compete? Those US car makers needed to adapt or die, protectionism could've saved them and improved their car designs.

Of course cattle ranching in the deserts would be bad. Did you really think I was suggesting a country like Luxembourg put tariffs on oil imports? If the Untied States cannot physically produce coconuts it is a stupid idea to put tariffs on coconuts. But the US can physically make cars and other products.


This is another stunning victory for protectionism against free trade mongrel niggers. All modern economists are stupid niggers, economics isn't a science and trying to view economics through abstractions is retarded. I look at history for my economic policy and history has shown me that protectionism is the best. You won't respond because you know I;m right. Protectionism will forever reign supreme.
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Edit: i fucking hate these nigger economists, dirty nigger economics, if you go to university and study economics you're stupid. Nothing can be learned from university "economics." literally pick up a history book and you will see how REAL ECONOMICS works. Read the book on the German Empire that I forgot the name of. steel kingdom or something
 
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doulomb

kiwifarms.net
crossposted on topic

Are you sure that this Inferiority complex isn't just all in your head? I don't know anybody who measures the merits of their country by comparing it to another. NATO is doing fine as it is, and will change accordingly if things escalate. There's no point losing sleep over it.

Most of us in the west are just happy to be born in a place where water isn't a super precious commodity, food is plentiful, healthcare. Getting angry over flaws in a nation is dumb. No country is perfect but that just means theres room to improve, and keep improving.
I like our country, but I don't like the idea that we have "no identity" or whatever. I'm a big believer in our historic greatness. The truth is, that most of Canada is pretty chill, polite and respectful and doesn't pay attention to the BS going on in Ottawa or Toronto. But these people still exist and tend to be annoyingly vocal. We elected one for example, so that is kind of on everyone.

I come from a military family so I always had respect for it as an institution. There are lots of great things about Canada, but there tends to be a certain unexamined attitude that lurks beneath the surface. I've been reading a lot of literature about it, like the aforementioned "Lament for a Nation".

There also exists a lot of unresolved issues, like Quebec, maritime poverty and western alienation, which have only been loosely papered over. I'd like to see us get our house in order over these things before we see it get worse.

Lastly I think that Canadian attitudes on America are a bit unfair. I'd like to see some common cause found, rather than the continuous ripping we see on both sides.
 

lemmiwinks

кремлеботы
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I find it really hard to believe that Nunavut and the other Canadian territories all have an HDI above .90.
I don't know much about this stuff. I am just following the discussion, so I can't say anything about the accuracy of this, but I do like to check any provided sources.

Here is the source data for the map in the image above. The latest year tracked is 2018. According to the chart the only provinces in Canada with an HDI below .9 are in the Maritimes. However, the Territories and PEI are combined as one point of data.