On The State of Israel - Should it exist, or should it not? Is it already just fine, or do some things need to be fixed?

[Iwasamwillbe]

The State of Israel is a country with an extensive history and much more extensive controversy surrounding it.

In this thread, I intend to discuss the modern controversies surrounding the State of Israel. Some of them are religious in nature, some of them political, and some a mixture of both.

Quite frankly, I find it disturbing that a relatively small Middle Eastern/Western Asian nation is the cause, whether direct or indirect, of so much trouble and strife within the region.

My current personal position on Israel is what I would consider to be a "Practical Zionist": I support the right of the State of Israel to exist, since it is basically a sanctuary nation for Jews post-World War II, and it is a US ally, but there do exist problems in it that need to be fixed.

I do not support any two-state solution or Free Palestine political movements, since two-state solutions have already been rejected by prominent Arab statesmen, and Free Palestine movements* seem far too militaristic and even terroristic to warrant serious negotiations with.

Both certain prominent Arab statesmen and members of Free Palestine have desired a massive culling and even genocide of Jews in the past and even present.

I also do not much care for the apparent and undue influence it has on United States policy, because any foreign nation, even an ally, having too much an effect on US policy is dangerous in my view.

*defined as any movement that support or favor Palestine in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not just the movement with that exact name.

 

[ICametoLurk]

It should join the 21st Century by having open borders.

 

[spurger king]

I'm cool with it existing I suppose, but my country needs to stop giving them billions of dollars a year. Also I find the idea of dual citizenship to be retarded. I agree with you that Israel has far too much control over US foreign policy as well. It's basically a parasite nation at this point.

Oh yeah and if they wanted peace they should have just bought a chunk of South America or something.

 

[Dildo]

One State solution. Israel's taking the rest of the kicking Europe would be if the Arabs weren't too busy raging about Israel.

I'd much rather they fight over sand there than look further afield.

 

[WW 635]

Quite frankly, I find it disturbing that a relatively small Middle Eastern/Western Asian nation is the cause, whether direct or indirect, of so much trouble and strife within the region.

The entire region causes strife within the region.

 

[Piss Clam]

I suppose in my view that depends on if you think that places such as Iraq/Lebanon/Syria should exist as drawn by western empires otherwise known as the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[soy_king]

Overall a decent country. Not great, but it's almost on the level of a developed country. My personal belief would be a Dayton Agreement-style one state solution, but I think that's practically infeasible.

OT but I still find it amazing how people still believe European colonialists were irresponsible and drew arbitrary lines in the sand when they colonized places. It's pretty obvious they drew borders with geographic and economic considerations in mind, and felt the presence of native peoples to be entirely besides the point.

 

[millais]

They need to denuclearise. As long as they have nukes, Iran will want nukes, and if Iran gets nukes, Saudi Arabia will want nukes. The last thing we need is for the country that spawned the September 11 hijackers to have nukes.

 

[ICametoLurk]

They need to denuclearise. As long as they have nukes, Iran will want nukes, and if Iran gets nukes, Saudi Arabia will want nukes. The last thing we need is for the country that spawned the September 11 hijackers to have nukes.

But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.

I want my McDonalds Nukes.

 

[millais]

But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.

I want my McDonalds Nukes.

No, I think it ends with Saudi Arabia. No one else in the region would want or be able to afford nukes. Maybe Qatar if the blockade is still around by the time Saudi gets nukes. Everyone else is either on good enough terms with Saudi or too poor to develop nukes.

 

[Datiko]

Israel provides advancements in technology across all sectors. It's a largely free society that protects the rights of it's minorites.

The countries around Israel produce jihad and Sharia. They do not protect their minorities and are cesspools. Hamas is particularly terrible. It uses the fertilizer and sugar sent for it's "citizens" by people who believe the organizations propaganda as fuel for rockets used to bomb Israeli civilians.

 

[Lysol]

Just how much I think Israel should have a right to exist is directly proportional to how much fuckery they're doing in other countries. If they'd stop funding certain ideologies and lobbyists for them, I'd see no problem with it. As it stands, fuck em.

 

[soy_king]

Just how much I think Israel should have a right to exist is directly proportional to how much fuckery they're doing in other countries. If they'd stop funding certain ideologies and lobbyists for them, I'd see no problem with it. As it stands, fuck em.

What ideologies are they funding? Israel and Jews aren't the same thing. If anything, Soros and other left-wing American Jews hate Netanyahu and are actively attempting to remove him from power.

No, I think it ends with Saudi Arabia. No one else in the region would want or be able to afford nukes. Maybe Qatar if the blockade is still around by the time Saudi gets nukes. Everyone else is either on good enough terms with Saudi or too poor to develop nukes.

Strangely enough, it's surprising how the Western MSM has turned on Saudi Arabia and is becoming more sympathetic to Iran, despite the fact that MBS is doing a lot to reform Saudi. It's almost as if the media has become so deranged at the prospect of Drumpf that they're willing to piss on those lovely Muslims if he happens to support them.

 

[Clem Fandango]

One side draws the border. Other side chooses which half they get.

 

[guccigash]

But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.

I want my McDonalds Nukes.

Domino's are the nukes you seek

http://theloosenukes.blogspot.com/2013/10/pizza-delivery-blamed-for-nuclear.html

 

[Smug Chuckler]

I stand by Israel and I'm proud of it and I'm totally not saying it because I don't want to be on ADL's watchlist.

Seriously: D. It can do whatever, get the US out of it.

 

[Chiang Kai-shek]

Generally, I support Israel as they are one of the few countries in the middle east that isn't a theocratic shithole. However, they are far from perfect. Such as when they pull shit like randomly bombing Syria despite not being in a fucking war, which might explain why neocons like them so much. Personally I'd wish they stop with the settlements and striking other countries without declarations of war. It would be much better PR for them to be honest. Despite that, I'll take Israel over any other islamic shithole out there. I doubt any of the groups fighting against Israel (Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, etc.) would do anything useful with the land and turn it into another Saudi Arabia.

 

[Dildo]

For the American's objecting to supporting Israel, is the funding not worth it?

If Israel was not there, it would probably be you guys being drawn into fights across Southern Europe. If there's one thing we should have learned about the Middle East by now; if they're not fighting among themselves, they're trying to invade Europe. That has been consistent, and remains more true today than ever.

And if Europe's being trashed, we're not able to buy your stuff. Israel seems to be a pretty good investment really.

 

[Deadwaste]

delete israel. replace it with anime. surely that'll make it better

 

[ICametoLurk]

I stand by Israel and I'm proud of it and I'm totally not saying it because I don't want to be on ADL's watchlist.

There's actually a worse list they put you on.
https://canarymission.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Mission