On The Trump-Russia Connection/Collusion - How much stock do you put in that story?

[Iwasamwillbe]

Myself, personally, I don't put much stock in it at all, for a multitude of different reasons, but certain members have, or at least seem to.

Republicans pretend they care so much about "small government principles" but their support of this idea, and of Trump's repeated obstruction of justice, proves they don't care about anything except getting their way before Mueller can get his ass on a plate.

Y'all are letting a Russian traitor run the country, kind of decent reason for people to go a little bonkers.

The way people keep saying Trump had no idea about what was going on [about the supposed links between his associates and Russian officials] like it's a defence kind of confuses me, because that's really just saying he's an easily conned rube who's surrounded himself with amoral thugs he can't control.

I want this to be a call for anyone who has belief in any accuracy to the Trump-Russia connection to explain their positions more fully.

And for people who disbelieve to lay out why they do so in a more complete manner.

 

[It's HK-47]

Not like it'll matter soon anyways, Whitaker just announced that the investigation will be pulling up to the curb very shortly. I'd say that once Mueller shelves it and still hasn't produced anything close to actual collusion with Russia, maybe people will shut up about it, but... Yeah, we know they won't.

CNN won't let go of this bullshit for a decade at least, not until the next Evil Republican™ comes along.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Forgot the Russia Gate stuff, according to the worst sufferers of TDS people like Jill Stein and anyone who ran against Hillary is part of a World spanning Nazi-Commie plot to destroy America.

 

[Rei is shit]

I'd still like to know how collusion counts as a crime.

 

[Yuusha-sama]

I do not really know so much about American politics, with the TDS thread and Kavanaugh thread as exception.
German MSM is like CNN and I don't need to read propaganda.
My biggest input I have on american politics is kiwifarms.
In my opinion, if they had anything, they would have spilled the beans by the midterms.
I believe that the russians has meddled in the election, like in every election but as their golden boy Obama was in office they just shut their mouths.
Secondly guilt by association doesn't count, if it would be, I do not want to know how many sitting presidents would have been busted because of some subordinate who has connection to russia.

I believe they needed a scapegoat because of the rigged polls and media who had said that Hilldog would win 99%.
And after they had realize how much clicks that shit generated, they rode it the last 3 years.

 

[NOT Sword Fighter Super]

It's a distraction, like almost every other "scandal".

 

[AF 802]

Be in mind, MSM: If/when Trump is impeached (big emphasis on if), you're getting any number of people on Trump's admin. instead of YAS QUEEN like you want.

Installing YAS QUEEN will not happen without dangerous repercussions.

 

[Datiko]

Russia does interfere in US elections. The US also interferes with Russian elections. Its expected behavior from large powers. I think the left's focus on Trump is ironic because there is a party who has actively solicited help from the USSR and leftist regimes(Hint: its color isn't red).

 

[Philosophy Zombie]

Collusion is not necessarily a crime, but in many cases it can be charged as conspiracy even if nothing "illegal" was meant to be accomplished.

No, I don't necessarily believe Trump must have colluded with the Kremlin. It's possible he has, but I'm more concerned with his ongoing effort to cover his ass and thwart any investigation. Nixon's greatest crime was not bugging Watergate, it was his cover-up and refusal to cooperate with investigators.

What I did say is that he's obstructed justice repeatedly. He fired James Comey because he was in charge of the FBI when the Russia probe began. I haven't heard a better reason why he did this. He complained a few months after it started that it has gone on too long, and has been attacking it and Mueller at every turn.

I think you can agree even if he is innocent, he is afraid of him. He refused to even sit down with him for fear of getting caught in a "perjury trap."

At one point he accused Democrats of "not me, you! ", insisting they colluded with Russia. If he is innocent he is not doing a good job at making himself appear as if he has nothing to hide. That is not proof, but it doesn't make me sympathetic to him. He nominated Kavanaugh primarily because Kavvy was waffly at best about the decision US vs Nixon (ie, he was the most likely judge to cover for him).

Then there are the indictments. Many of his former White House staff are facing jail time for lying to the FBI. Flynn, Manafort, Stone, however the fuck that Greek guy's name is spelled, Gates et al have all plead guilty, some pleading guilty to conspiracy charges. Lying to the FBI and conspiracy are both felonies and impeachable offenses. Again it's possible that Trump was ignorant to the rampant corruption in his white house staff but it's not likely.

Then there's of course the fact that Don Jr was caught red-handed dealing with the Kremlin. His best justification for it was essentially that since the meeting didn't go well it obviously didn't count.

Again I don't really expect moral integrity from the office but none of this total lack of transparency instills much confidence in me. Am I supposed to be ok with whatever shady back deals the White House is engaging in? A Democrat absolutely could not get away with the things Trump has pulled through sheer audacity.

The probe is apparently in the process of completion at any rate so if there are results we will know them in the near future.

 

[verissimus]

Strongly disbelieve if we're talking about Trump colluding with the Russian government for political reasons (e.g. fixing the election). Now if we're talking about Trump and his team colluding with the Russian government regarding Trump's financial endeavors, that's a different story and yet it seems to me that the Left/media wants to conflate the latter as the former.

 

[Jeanne d'Arc]

I don't see how wanting to build a hotel in Russia effects anything politically. Even if he tried to get it built while he was campaigning in 2016, it was still a personal venture. I can't imagine you can just abandon an entire empire, even if you do become President of the United States.

 

[Philosophy Zombie]

I don't see how wanting to build a hotel in Russia effects anything politically. Even if he tried to get it built while he was campaigning in 2016, it was still a personal venture. I can't imagine you can just abandon an entire empire, even if you do become President of the United States.

Jimmy Carter had to give up his peanut farm.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

What I did say is that he's obstructed justice repeatedly. He fired James Comey because he was in charge of the FBI when the Russia probe began. I haven't heard a better reason why he did this. He complained a few months after it started that it has gone on too long, and has been attacking it and Mueller at every turn.

Everybody was calling for Comey to be fired until he was actually fired, and then they flipped and starting screaming about it.

I think you can agree even if he is innocent, he is afraid of him. He refused to even sit down with him for fear of getting caught in a "perjury trap."

Are you aware of how the FBI works? They question you and question you until you fuck up an answer because you second guess yourself, then they take any disparity as perjury.

At one point he accused Democrats of "not me, you! ", insisting they colluded with Russia.

Uranium One. Not to mention the Hillary campaign colluding with a foreign national (Steele) to gain opposition research, something that I guess isn't actually a problem to people.

Then there are the indictments. Many of his former White House staff are facing jail time for lying to the FBI. Flynn, Manafort, Stone, however the fuck that Greek guy's name is spelled, Gates et al have all plead guilty, some pleading guilty to conspiracy charges. Lying to the FBI and conspiracy are both felonies and impeachable offenses. Again it's possible that Trump was ignorant to the rampant corruption in his white house staff but it's not likely.

For all lying to the FBI after constant questioning, it's all petty. Manafort was really the only one with actual crimes.

Again it's possible that Trump was ignorant to the rampant corruption in his white house staff but it's not likely.

I can guarantee that any administration could be investigated for 2 years and have people indicted for lying to the FBI. To call that "rampant corruption" would be a stretch. Not to mention one person who's been investigated, had their crimes detailed on national television, and remains uncharged...

Again I don't really expect moral integrity from the office but none of this total lack of transparency instills much confidence in me. Am I supposed to be ok with whatever shady back deals the White House is engaging in? A Democrat absolutely could not get away with the things Trump has pulled through sheer audacity.

Obama ran guns to the Mexican cartels, gave Iran pallets of cash, bombed numerous people in the Middle East including American civilians, and supposedly had a "scandal free" presidency. A Democrat absolutely would get away with the things Trump has been accused of doing, seeing as they absolutely have done similar things and worse.

 

[Autopsy]

A Democrat absolutely would get away with the things Trump has been accused of doing, seeing as they absolutely have done similar things and worse.

Memories are short and people are stupid.
Everyone knows the courts are fucked up and you get pressured to plea, until it's happening to the "right people".
Everyone knows Obama had "a few little issues", but the moment the next guy steps up, molehills are mountains.
Everyone knows Comey was an incompetent idiot, but he's a government employee so they're supposed to be.
Everyone knows troops in the near east are bad, but the moment trusted dems reaffirm hawk geopolitics they can't leave.
Everyone knows imperialism is bad and America isn't the world's savior, until Trump tries to roll back NATO and NAFTA.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

Memories are short and people are stupid.
Everyone knows the courts are fucked up and you get pressured to plea, until it's happening to the "right people".
Everyone knows Obama had "a few little issues", but the moment the next guy steps up, molehills are mountains.
Everyone knows Comey was an incompetent idiot, but he's a government employee so they're supposed to be.
Everyone knows troops in the near east are bad, but the moment trusted dems reaffirm hawk geopolitics they can't leave.
Everyone knows imperialism is bad and America isn't the world's savior, until Trump tries to roll back NATO and NAFTA.

Hell, I missed a few things, and you are very much correct.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Trump's presidency is going to be over soon and people still can't let go of a theory about his election. Jesus Christ get a hobby you fucking jagoffs.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Jimmy Carter had to give up his peanut farm.

But hillary didn't have to give up the clinton foundation...

But yeah, let's continue pretending Trump is being treated the same way as other politicians. By the way, how many guns did the FBI bring when they stormed hillary's house at 4:00 AM? Oh right, they didn't and she destroyed the evidence.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Real Talk. Bannon was a big Navy Security guy. You seriously think he would've allowed the FUCKING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA not be able to nuke the shit out of a country if they attacked?

 

[deodorant]

I'm going to go with the Chris Christie explanation that Trump's team was too green/incompetent to have done anything illegal on purpose.

 

[Moon Jelly]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't agree with much of Trump's ideology and character, but from what we've seen of Mueller's investigation it would appear that Trump is only guilty of associating himself with corrupt grifters. At best, it'll be proven that a campaign staffer indirectly obtained the emails.

What democrats don't get is that even if their wildest wet dreams are true, their platform has still proven to be divisive and easily beaten by a bunch of crooks. That's not a victory.