OPCAL, Sov Cits, freemen on the land success thread - how to avoid paying taxes and win in court.

[Old Fart]

Reminds me of Metokur's video where one of them talks about "word magic" and how because the word navel sounds like naval that means the government invented it to say all American babies are naval property and thus can be legally kept under martial law, or something. They really do think that words have some kind of magic power, like "You're dismissed" will make cops disappear.

Note the complete obliviousness of the existence of other countries and languages, where 'navel' is Germanic and has existed for perhaps a thousand years before the United States were even invented.

 

[Shaka Brah]

Hey! I'm from the Fallout Discord community. You once posted this about Fallout Frontier Lead TGSPY. Do remember where you heard these allegations? There is a lot of stuff being found, and this could be the last piece of the puzzle. Thanks!

"Weird as the guy is he's being used as a scapegoat. Almost everyone in charge of that mod was a fucking weirdo. The devs were posting Deathclaw porn and furry OCs in various channels and allegedly tgspy had flirted with and more or less tried to groom a 14 year old girl in their own server. Awful devs on top of an awful mod. Assuming Zu didn't have anything to do with the underage shit and enslaving America dialogue, which even the devs say he didn't despite throwing him under the bus for everything else, the sad thing is he's probably not the worst of the bunch."

DM him that question so it doesn't get lost in this thread. This is about sovereign citizens, not Fallout.

Note the complete obliviousness of the existence of other countries and languages, where 'navel' is Germanic and has existed for perhaps a thousand years before the United States were even invented.

Even a cursory look at a foreign-language or historical dictionary totally throws out their claims.

To illustrate, for the sake of autism: "Naval" and "Navy" are from the Latin "Navis" (boat) which gives us the same prefix navi as in navigation. The words originate on literal opposite sides of Europe, separated by thousands of miles. Furthermore the ancient Germanic words for ships and boats sound absolutely nothing like "Navel" or "Naval," it'd have been said something like skif (Ship/Skiff) or baita/bat (Boat). The same words we still use today.

But even if it was exactly like they say it is, it wouldn't matter because words are just words, they fundamentally lack the power to change how a person is treated.

We wouldn't be constantly having debates on judicial overreach and police brutality if laws and magic words actually did anything to curtail state power. Sovcit stuff is basically a type of extreme slacktivism, where it involves doing nothing that could change the country for the better but also simultaneously inconveniences the person doing it and everyone else involved as much as possible.

 

[Old Fart]

Someone could make their brains explode by explaining that 'sovcit' sounds like 'soviet' and that their movement is a plot by the former Communist pact.

 

[AnOminous]

I think they got some of this from the Miranda ruling and the subsequent 'magic invocation' of Mirandizing suspects. Frankly, the Miranda case has taken on far more weight than it should; that being said, when you consider that prosecutors and cops are under no obligation to tell you the truth either, one can see why a requirement to explain the rights held by a suspect is held inviolate.

Scalia in particular is highly critical of the Miranda ruling. I'll note that the ruling itself doesn't require they use any specific magic words, but because the failure to explain the rights adequately is often fatal to a case, and cops generally aren't lawyers, police agencies across the country simply decided across the board that they'd simply quote directly from the language the Supreme Court used in its opinion.

Whether intentionally or not, they legislated from the bench and mandated a specific set of magic words police must use. Police agencies could draft their own version of the Miranda requirement, or even let officers make up their own personal version, but then they would have to be litigated on a case by case basis for adequacy.

This isn't efficient, so we're stuck with the magic words.

Whether they're actually good magic words in this case, and I think they are, things like this do tend to contribute to the belief that the law is a matter of the "talismanic invocation" of magical language, to use a phrase itself used in many cases dismissing sovcit claims.

I think it also has a lot to do with bogus traffic stops/drug searches that crop up in some big metropolitan areas. There used to be a trend (so famous it was immortalized in a song) of cops holding people quasi-legally for no reason just to waste enough time that they could bring a drug dog to sniff the car.

Jay-Z's song "99 Problems," specifically the second verse, is about exactly this, and one of the many things it gets right is exactly that deliberately prolonging a traffic stop in order to get a drug dog without probable cause is a proper basis for suppression, i.e. if the cops actually went through with their threat to get a drug dog and found the crack he was shipping, he'd beat the rap.

This song is actually taught in crim pro classes, both for what it (mostly) gets right and the couple things it gets wrong. It's based on an actual event involving Jay-Z, though, and he got it right enough he got away with it.

(One specific thing wrong is you can't refuse to get out of your car in a traffic stop, even a bogus one. Best practice there is to get out and lock the doors behind you, easy to do if you have a remote for that. It's a lot harder for a cop to lie about having consent to search if they have to break the door in. This works even better in a home.)

ETA: I actually found an article by a crim pro prof on exactly this issue. I attached it for anyone interested.

 

[S.C.U.D.]

I think it also has a lot to do with bogus traffic stops/drug searches that crop up in some big metropolitan areas. There used to be a trend (so famous it was immortalized in a song) of cops holding people quasi-legally for no reason just to waste enough time that they could bring a drug dog to sniff the car.

Drug dogs are also bullshit by the way. It's all a performance so the cop can claim the dog "found" something to justify a warrantless search. Police dogs are good for tracking, chasing and biting suspects, and as intimidation tools and any other claimed use case is a lie.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

Scalia in particular is highly critical of the Miranda ruling. I'll note that the ruling itself doesn't require they use any specific magic words, but because the failure to explain the rights adequately is often fatal to a case, and cops generally aren't lawyers, police agencies across the country simply decided across the board that they'd simply quote directly from the language the Supreme Court used in its opinion.

Whether intentionally or not, they legislated from the bench and mandated a specific set of magic words police must use. Police agencies could draft their own version of the Miranda requirement, or even let officers make up their own personal version, but then they would have to be litigated on a case by case basis for adequacy.

This isn't efficient, so we're stuck with the magic words.

Whether they're actually good magic words in this case, and I think they are, things like this do tend to contribute to the belief that the law is a matter of the "talismanic invocation" of magical language, to use a phrase itself used in many cases dismissing sovcit claims.

Jay-Z's song "99 Problems," specifically the second verse, is about exactly this, and one of the many things it gets right is exactly that deliberately prolonging a traffic stop in order to get a drug dog without probable cause is a proper basis for suppression, i.e. if the cops actually went through with their threat to get a drug dog and found the crack he was shipping, he'd beat the rap.

This song is actually taught in crim pro classes, both for what it (mostly) gets right and the couple things it gets wrong. It's based on an actual event involving Jay-Z, though, and he got it right enough he got away with it.

(One specific thing wrong is you can't refuse to get out of your car in a traffic stop, even a bogus one. Best practice there is to get out and lock the doors behind you, easy to do if you have a remote for that. It's a lot harder for a cop to lie about having consent to search if they have to break the door in. This works even better in a home.)

ETA: I actually found an article by a crim pro prof on exactly this issue. I attached it for anyone interested.

I heard "Son, do you know why I'm stopping you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hat's real low
Or do I look like a mind reader, sir? I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo?
"Well you was doing fifty-five in the fifty-four", uh huh
"License and registration and step out of the car
"Are you carrying a weapon on you, I know a lot of you are"
I ain't stepping out of shit, all my papers legit
"Well do you mind if I look around the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked, so is the trunk and the back
And I know my rights so you goin' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack? You some type of lawyer or something?
"Somebody important or something?"
I ain't passed the bar, but I know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my shit

 

[BiggerChungus]

DM him that question so it doesn't get lost in this thread. This is about sovereign citizens, not Fallout.

Even a cursory look at a foreign-language or historical dictionary totally throws out their claims.

To illustrate, for the sake of autism: "Naval" and "Navy" are from the Latin "Navis" (boat) which gives us the same prefix navi as in navigation. The words originate on literal opposite sides of Europe, separated by thousands of miles. Furthermore the ancient Germanic words for ships and boats sound absolutely nothing like "Navel" or "Naval," it'd have been said something like skif (Ship/Skiff) or baita/bat (Boat). The same words we still use today.

But even if it was exactly like they say it is, it wouldn't matter because words are just words, they fundamentally lack the power to change how a person is treated.

We wouldn't be constantly having debates on judicial overreach and police brutality if laws and magic words actually did anything to curtail state power. Sovcit stuff is basically a type of extreme slacktivism, where it involves doing nothing that could change the country for the better but also simultaneously inconveniences the person doing it and everyone else involved as much as possible.

That same super special sovereign citizen said that it's called the birth "canal" to justify humans being under US admiralty law.

Hey! I'm from the Fallout Discord community. You once posted this about Fallout Frontier Lead TGSPY. Do remember where you heard these allegations? There is a lot of stuff being found, and this could be the last piece of the puzzle. Thanks!

It was screencapped in the 4chan Fallout thread.

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

Prospering ground has some hot new insanity involving a SovCit.

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