OY VEY!!! Antisemitism! -

[The Great Chandler]

Probably the most oldest form of prejudice(becuz humanitey iza ama-zing), it's something I wonder about at times. The fact that Jews to this day still get a lot of hate thrown about because some guy thought they "rule the world" or something. Tell me what you guys think.

 

[Derbydollar]

Antisemites mostly seem to be incompetents who are lashing out against Jews because they perceive them to be more successful people, IMO.

They're idiots who listen to the echos of old Europe, where, as far as I know, people hated them for being bankers and creditors.
Then they say to themselves, "Well, all right! Jews are really the reason why I'm severely in debt and didn't make the cut in college!"

 

[AnOminous]

They're idiots who listen to the echos of old Europe, where, as far as I know, people hated them for being bankers and creditors.

They were literally prohibited from every other profession.

Then the same kind of fucking idiots who created that situation got mad they turned out really good at it.

 

[VLAD]

They were literally prohibited from every other profession.

Then the same kind of fucking idiots who created that situation got mad they turned out really good at it.

More or less. It also helps that Judaism is the only one of the Abrahamic religions that doesn't forbid charging interest.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

It's "Oy vey", OP.

 

[Really makes you thunk]

Some distinction should be made between Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism.

People who are against Zionism are very often strawmanned by those for it as just being filthy bigotted Anti-Semites.

I don't consider myself an Anti-Semite- I have nothing against the Jewish people, their religion, or even Israel existing as a country. I do have a problem, however, with Zionism, for the same reason I'd have a problem with any country being forcibly annexed into another because "muh holy-land". Even if this is Palestine we're talking about, and Muslims are the current group of people that everyone loves to hate. Seriously, leave Palestine alone, you damn dirty JERKS!

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Plenty of people, including Jews, make legitimate criticism against Israel.

If you need to preface your comments with 'I am not an anti-semite, but' you probably are one of those who crosses the line. PS Zionism = belief that Jews have a right to self-governance in Israel.

Anti-Zionism by definition means that you don't believe Israel has a right to exist, or that Jews have a right to govern themselves.

 

[AnOminous]

More or less. It also helps that Judaism is the only one of the Abrahamic religions that doesn't forbid charging interest.

Since modern civilization depends on capitalism, and capitalism depends on, among other things, readily available credit, part of why Christian countries have been a success is they ignore that shit entirely now, while Muslims have to go through a variety of boondoggles to accomplish "Islamic credit" in a convoluted, inefficient way.

 

[Marvin]

Some distinction should be made between Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism.

Agreed.

People who are against Zionism are very often strawmanned by those for it as just being filthy bigotted Anti-Semites.

I don't know about that. I think anti-zionists slip into anti-semitism pretty easily. Anti-zionists are either a few principled intellectuals who are careful about what they say OR they're a mob of completely retarded SJWs who have no qualms about being anti-semitic.

Like, if someone is coherent, and genuinely not being bigoted in what they're saying, it's really quite hard to artificially paint them as bigots.

I don't consider myself an Anti-Semite- I have nothing against the Jewish people, their religion, or even Israel existing as a country. I do have a problem, however, with Zionism, for the same reason I'd have a problem with any country being forcibly annexed into another because "muh holy-land". Even if this is Palestine we're talking about, and Muslims are the current group of people that everyone loves to hate. Seriously, leave Palestine alone, you damn dirty JERKS!

I think the issue isn't really much about Zionism anymore. Israel already exists. It's mostly too late to go back on that.

If I was going to start from scratch, I don't think it'd be a good idea to establish something like Israel, mostly because I don't like the idea of countries that have a built-in ethnic component in their government.

But since Israel already exists, and since it's mostly a pretty solid, western-style liberal democracy surrounded by shithole countries, we should support them as a general principle. Except, of course, for when they're fucking up.

If you need to preface your comments with 'I am not an anti-semite, but' you probably are one of those who crosses the line. PS Zionism = belief that Jews have a right to self-governance in Israel.

I was talking to some guy the other day who described himself not as a racist, but a "race realist".

 

[The 25th Cyberman]

I've always found modern-day anti-semites to be more amusing than anything.

 

[Really makes you thunk]

If you need to preface your comments with 'I am not an anti-semite, but' you probably are one of those who crosses the line.

I mean yeah, I won't argue that unfortunately, when a lot of people say "I'm not anti-something but-" it's usually followed not an anti-something statement, but not always. It can just mean they're going to say something which can be misinterpreted as anti-something without context. Pointing it out isn't a real argument to use, as you haven't demonstrated any proof that they are anti-something, just that they use the same kind of wording while presenting their argument.

Anti-Zionism by definition means that you don't believe Israel has a right to exist

I don't have a problem with a country belonging to Jews existing. I just don't agree with the practice of stampeding out another country to get land for your own That goes for any country, not just Israel/Palestine.
Although I agree with Marvin's sentiment that there's no real point in condemning Israel in it's current state existing, it's too late for that.
Maybe I'm not a real Anti-Zionist, but just someone who thinks that Israel has done some pretty shitty stuff to Palestine to get to its current position, and that the conflict between the two should stop, and maybe (very very unlikely, and very hard to sort out) some of the more recently-taken land should be given back to Palestine.

To hell with labels anyway.

or that Jews have a right to govern themselves.

Yeah, no. Zionism, at least to my unstertanding, is pretty specific about where Zion should be.

 

[Cosmos]

I honestly think the Jews are the most historically oppressed group of people on the planet. The were- and are- blamed for fucking everything. It would be much easier to compile a list of the things they haven't been blamed for. The Black Plague? The Jews did it! Germany's severe depression after WWI? The Jews did it! 9/11? The Jews did it! They were probably behind the whole New Coke fiasco, too.

I love how some people insist that Jews control the entire world and are the most powerful people in the world when literally their entire history disproves that. I guess the Jews just let themselves be horrifically oppressed for thousands of years because of... something.

 

[AnOminous]

I was talking to some guy the other day who described himself not as a racist, but a "race realist".

That's just racist with two added bullshit syllables. You can always tell a euphemism is shit when they do that.

 

[Really makes you thunk]

That's just racist with one* added bullshit syllable. You can always tell a euphemism is shit when they do that.

Fixed. "Real" is one syllable . If there was a grammar-nazi rating, I'd deserve it. I guess the "Autistic" rating'll have to do, huh.

 

[AnOminous]

Fixed. "Real" is one syllable . If there was a grammar-nazi rating, I'd deserve it. I guess the "Autistic" rating'll have to do, huh.

Realist is three syllables.

realist
[ree-uh-list]

 

[Really makes you thunk]

Huh. Just looked that up, and others are saying it's three. I and most people I talk to in person just say "Reel-ist". Probably an accent-thing.

Forget what I said then, no point in derailing any further.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I mean yeah, I won't argue that unfortunately, when a lot of people say "I'm not anti-something but-" it's usually followed not an anti-something statement, but not always. It can just mean they're going to say something which can be misinterpreted as anti-something without context. Pointing it out isn't a real argument to use, as you haven't demonstrated any proof that they are anti-something, just that they use the same kind of wording while presenting their argument.

Whether you agree or not, it's really hard to argue that people who are self-described anti-Zionists are not also anti-semites. The whole 'I just oppose the occupation of land by other countries!' kinda falls apart when the same people have never heard of the Armenian occupation and annexation of Karki, Barxudarli and Yuxari. Or how Azerbaijan decided to occupy and annex Artsvashen.

'But, it's long past history, no one ever heard about that!'. It actually happened in the early 90s.
'Well it certainly did not create as many deaths as the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict! It's been going on forever!'. Actually it killed more people (between 40,000-50,000) than all 60 years of I/P conflict in a couple of years, lead to 70,000+ wounded and about 5,000 missing who are most likely interred in mass graves. There were also nearly 1.5m displaced, more than when Israel was created.

There are currently at least 12 military occupations going on at the moment, not to mention dozens of others areas of land that have been annexed by other countries. When's the last time you protested the illegal British annexation of Rockall?

I know Tibet was all the rage for 15 minutes in the early 90s, but who gives a shit today? Who even ever heard of Ogaden or Sikkim?


Israel has garnered more condemnation from the UN than every single other country in the world. Even the Darfur genocide or the Syrian civil war have not warranted special HR commissions or condemnations but somehow every time an Israeli soldier scratches his back vaguely menacingly its time for a new round of condemnation.

I don't have a problem with a country belonging to Jews existing. I just don't agree with the practice of stampeding out another country to get land for your own That goes for any country, not just Israel/Palestine.

Although I agree with Marvin's sentiment that there's no real point in condemning Israel in it's current state existing, it's too late for that.
Maybe I'm not a real Anti-Zionist, but just someone who thinks that Israel has done some pretty shitty stuff to Palestine to get to its current position, and that the conflict between the two should stop, and maybe (very very unlikely, and very hard to sort out) some of the more recently-taken land should be given back to Palestine.

That's not what happened at all. If you are interested in books about the creation of the State of Israel from actual historians, I can link you, or documentaries or whatever.

Yeah, no. Zionism, at least to my unstertanding, is pretty specific about where Zion should be.

There was a schism between the first Zionists, some wanted to accept a state in South America, some in Africa, others only in Israel. Zionism today is clear about this, but prior to the establishment of the State/Balfour Declaration it certainly was not.

 

[exball]

I don't give a shit about Israel but hating them for literally no reason is /pol/-tier retardation.

 

[Really makes you thunk]

Whether you agree or not, it's really hard to argue that people who are self-described anti-Zionists are not also anti-semites. The whole 'I just oppose the occupation of land by other countries!' kinda falls apart when the same people have never heard of the Armenian occupation and annexation of Karki, Barxudarli and Yuxari. Or how Azerbaijan decided to occupy and annex Artsvashen.

I indeed hadn't heard about that though. How I was born in the mid-90s doesn't help. The answer to that, I suppose, is to bring it to light to more people who were unaware.
I'll have to look this stuff up sometime.

When's the last time you protested the illegal British annexation of Rockall?

I don't see Rockall as much worth protesting about, since it's literally just a rock with no people living there, and no rare/expensive resources worth mining (to my knowledge - feel free to enlighten me if I'm wrong). That's not to say I support my country illegally annexing it, but there's a huge difference between a rock, and a sizable country with real people living there.

That's not what happened at all. If you are interested in books about the creation of the State of Israel from actual historians, I can link you, or documentaries or whatever.

Please do, I'm interested.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think that likely antisemitism is neurologically distinct from other forms of western racism such as anti black racism and is likely a product of a brain that personifies problems a group of people rather than from a sense of group rivalry

Spoiler: Video related

I support Israel because I think it is the one developed country that is built upon the inegalitarian values that I support and I think that antiegalitarians who are also antizionists/antisemites are absolute idiots and worse than the SJWs who support palestine