Paganism and the Occult - Ouija boards, sage smudging, and hexes, oh my!

[Melkor]

I've been watching a lot of weird tv shows online lately that it got me wondering about paganism--any form, such as wicca, American Indian, shit like that.

I'm not going to powerlevel too hard, but I've been getting more involved with my tribe and I want to learn more about the belief system, mythology, and the ceremonies we held before we converted to Catholicism.

Tumblr paganism is a whole can of worms that I'd rather not open, so refrain from bringing it up in the thread.

If you prefer a pagan religion over major religions such as Christianity or Judaism, what kind of things do you do, exactly? What ceremonies do you perform? What are some things you would refuse to do (i.e., use ouija boards to contact spirits, perform sacrifices, etc.)

This isn't intended to be a honeypot thread. I just want to see if other people have certain opinions on paganism and the occult.

 

[Tranhuviya]

Paganism is for edgy people, tumblr or no.

 

[Pickle Inspector]

Paganism is for edgy people, tumblr or no.

Or women going through a mid life crisis when it's in the form of "Mother Gaia"/"Love and light"/"Raising my vibrations" variety.

 

[Melkor]

Paganism is for edgy people, tumblr or no.

Or women going through a mid life crisis when it's in the form of "Mother Gaia"/"Love and light"/"Raising my vibrations" variety.

While I do agree, this isn't why I made this thread. I'm not talking about the edgy hipsters or the middle aged women who are going through a midlife crisis.

I'm talking about something deeper than that. The beliefs of, say, the Inuits, or Norse paganism, or religions that involve the American Indians.

 

[Pickle Inspector]

While I do agree, this isn't why I made this thread. I'm not talking about the edgy hipsters or the middle aged women who are going through a midlife crisis.

I'm talking about something deeper than that. The beliefs of, say, the Inuits, or Norse paganism, or religions that involve the American Indians.

I find the mythology and cultures interesting, they just seem to attract a lot of new age crazies and tryhards though.

It's interesting to see for example the history of the Pagan holidays that were basically converted into Christian holidays like Samhain into Halloween or the Roman festival of Saturnalia into Christmas.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I am an Asatruar. I would not say that I prefer a pagan tradition to contemporary religions per se. I consider myself to also be a Christian because I consider Asatru to simply be the traditions of the Germanic peoples with the adaptation of protestantism being another form of Asatru. Now that Protestant Christianity has been corrupted by leftism and multiculturalism the new manifestation of an attempt to preserve Germanic traditions is Asatru. Scandanavian happiness is also Asatru despite not even being a cultural tradition since it is a part of the Germanic spirit. I am an Asatruar regardless of what I prefer as it is fundamentally who I am and I could just either deny it or embrace it and I have chosen to embrace it

what kind of things do you do, exactly?

I celebrate the holidays of Yule, Imbolc, Easter (on the spring equinox), Walpurgisnacht, Midsummer, Lughnasadh, The fall equinox, and Halloween
I just sort of combine the feast of Einherjar and Remembrance day together since they are on the same day and pretty similar to each other
I almost always ignore Lughnasadh because I honestly don't understand the holiday despite others celebrating it I think it is more Celtic than Germanic anyways
I do not celebrate winterfinding or summerfinding because they seem too minor for me to care about them and not very relevant to urban life

I do not perform any sort of weekly observances at the moment but if I found others to practice with I might. I generally think that it is more something that a household should perform together rather than a city.

I try to live the life of a warrior such that I will be able to go to Valhalla but I see warrior as having a broader meaning to include non military careers as long as they are sufficiently risky (and this only applies to men, I think that new completely different myths should be written for women)

I dislike attempts to incorporate other traditions into Asatru such as Vodou concepts but I do see it similarly to Vodou in its relation to Christianity. I take a stance of Orthopraxy rather than Orthodoxy so I think rituals are more important than beliefs. I see Slavic and Baltic traditions as being close enough though

I am a conservative Asatruar but I take no issue with someone entering it through marriage

I think that more female oriented practices should be developed in Asatru as at the moment most practices tend to be male oriented at the moment

What are some things you would refuse to do (i.e., use ouija boards to contact spirits, perform sacrifices, etc.)

I do not do any sorts of Runic divination or magic nor do I perform any rituals that involve things that are supposed to look like items from the classical times. Asatru is not just a religion of the past but also a religion of the future so it should be practiced with modern items (handguns instead of swords, rifles instead of spears, tablets instead of scrolls (unless it is being burned at which point loose leaf paper will suffice) and especially no horned helmets or viking funerals (just standard cremation instead)

 

[DuskEngine]

I have trouble believing that Jerry from Oklahoma was struck with a divine revelation relating to a religion that died when Olaf II came to power.

 

[Picklechu]

I read a newspaper article a few weeks ago about a Native American church in my county that's a front for people to smoke weed and use mushrooms. The high priest or whatever is a middle-aged white guy who lives in a trailer. That's not to say that this isn't legitimately what he believes, but I find it fascinating when people use religious exemptions to get around the law, plus drug policy is something I like to sperg about since it encompasses so many different areas.

 

[Eldritch]

I've recently converted to Asatru. @autisticdragonkin covered it okay, although I don't take his christian/syncretic perspective on it. I converted because my morals lined up well with it, and I felt it was more natural to practice religion as my ancestors did. I don't perform any rituals at the moment.

To shed light on the community itself, it's split into "folkish" and "universalist" Asatruars. Folkish pagans believe that Asatru is the ethnic religion of northern europeans and no other races should appropriate it. (this is where you find the nazis) Universalist pagans believe that anyone can practice it. (this is where you find the tumblrites)

I'd describe myself as folkish because a large aspect of Asatru is honoring your ancestors, and I don't feel a black person can honor their ancestors by practicing a european religion. (although I'm not hostile about it) I see homosexuality as a non-issue.

I'm very skeptical of new agers and their cancer-curing rocks or anyone dressed like this:

Spoiler: another minor issue

Loki worshipers, brought in by the Thor movie.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Caribbean/European reporting for thread.

Since a few people had inquired about it, I figure I may as well expound a little here. I come from culturally and religiously mixed family, and much of my family practiced Vodou (on our new world side, obviously.) Which honestly, is just a normal religion like any other. It doesn't get a lot of attention (barring negative stereotypes) because Haitian ("Orthodox") Vodou takes itself especially seriously, and that turns edgy hipsters off I guess. It is also as organized and dogmatic as any faith and I hate to call it "pagan" (most new world Vodouisants think of themselves as Catholics- lol. It also used to insult the faith endlessly.) But it has a panoply of spirits, and other weird stuff. It fits this thread better than the other religious threads.

But I guess I better lay down the basics since it is kind of out there for most westerners:

Essentially, Vodou sees the world under the guidance of a single God, "Bondye" or "Bon Dieu", the "Good God." This God is very distant and hard to hit up when you need him, because he runs the whole universe and you are a tiny mortal. So he delegates. The people he delegates to are called the "Lwa" or "Loa" and are sort of demigods, spirits, ancestors, and ghosts all in one. Some are so old and primordial that they may have never lived human lives, and depending on where you are these might be Loa like "Damballah", a father figure of sorts, or "Erzulie Freda", a spirit/God of wealth, luxury, love, and sex. These are considered the weakest Loa in practice because they are starting to get farther away from us, like Bondye.

Offerings are left for these entities usually based on the individual worshipers needs, but there are all kinds of ceremonies and stuff for communities to collectively invoke them. This is done through a kind of ecstatic trance- essentially the Loa in question possesses someone and then speaks and acts through them, usually while the priests try to figure out which Loa they are communicating with. They then perform miracles, dispense advice, cure illnesses, whatever they need to do.

The most powerful Loa are recent ancestors, still remembered and venerated by mortals on a more personal level, and who are still connected to a world they can better remember. Some are frightening and dangerous, like Marionette (who ascended after being executed by French planters and inspiring the Haitian Revolution), or Baron Kriminel, a former murderer condemned to death who now appears mostly to judge others similar to him. Some are revered like Erzulie Dantor, protector of women, children, LGBT people, and the abused. One of the most powerful (if not THE most) and respected Loa is Ghede, master of the dead, who digs every man's grave on the other side (and must, in order for them to die). He is said to have been the first man who ever died, although his original name and gender are considered lost (and he often flaunts gender stereotypes simply to shock people.) He is generally supposed to be crass, drunken, sexual, and deviant from the norm in any way he can be to make the point that life is short. He isn't fond of white people because he thinks they are very puritanical and serious. They apparently don't like his top hat or find his night time sunglasses weird or something. Or don't drink enough? He kind of just throws complaints out there whenever priests find him. However, because he has conversed with every person to ever die he has gained much of their wisdom, and he is widely sought by practitioners for solutions to things.

Vodou in general/random facts:

- is highly syncretist
- Encompasses vast branches with a lot of differences but who do not consider themselves "separate" in say the sense of the Sunni/Shi'a divide
- Dislikes outsiders and converts, but allows them if they prove themselves (but this difficult because it is an entirely local call, and even then other areas may not honor it)
- condemns magic or sorcery of almost any kind (contrary to population belief, )
- practices animal sacrifice, as well as votive and general sacrifice (I practiced and condoned all three)
- at least in the new world, believes in the Holy Trinity and considers Jesus the Son of God (lol)
- is mostly focused on day to day interactions with spirits and community/local affairs
- believes it is acceptable to challenge higher powers if they have done wrong by you
- has this weird thing about black chickens (idk but it's prevalent especially in sacrifice wtf auntie)
- is deeply devoted to egalitarianism and gender equality (legacy of perhaps the most brutal enslavement in human history will do that to you)
- is very secretive, and only practiced openly in rural areas, some knowledge is held only by priests
- is an ancient and unbroken tradition, which also bothers tumblr neopagans because they can't just make shit up about it and it is not "how you interpret it."
- still has an unusual amount of white people who claim to be part of it and will sell you shit. I have known a few legitimate ones but they are the exception and almost always live in the Caribbean, or married in to it (which always counts).
- selling religious services or paraphernalia is one of the highest sins in Vodou because it considered blasphemous greed and usury (see: the slavery thing again.)
- these problems are worst in New Orleans
- divides itself into multiple houses, or traditions, with different bloodlines and tribes honoring different sets of spirits (this is considered necessary and important to make sure that they all feel loved and appeased)
- believes in the afterlife more strongly than any group I have ever met
- is practiced by millions of people around the world, despite any bad press it gets

Anymore anyway, I do not practice it, but I often consider doing so. I really wish I could return to the Caribbean and that might convince me. Mostly I just consider myself Catholic though. It's easier that way, besides, some Loa are just regular Christians (and a few, as I mentioned in another thread to @Ntwadumela are even Muslim but still answer summoning for some reason like what is Allah supposed to be doing up there.) So I guess I could still make it in to the pantheon apparently since utility and knowledge are apparently the only qualifiers.

Shout out to @Legatus Lanius who wanted more details about this.

Edit: all that said @Melkor I specialized in Religious Studies and especially folk and polytheistic practices, although I was most fascinated with African traditions and those of indo-European peoples. I can try to answer any questions if you want although I don't want to make myself sound too useful because religion is well, basically a huge grab bag of crazy opinions and shit.

 

[The Dude]

I haven't used a Ouija Board since middle school. The one time I did didn't turn out well. I had the worst, most realistic nightmares of my life starting that night and continuing on for just over a month. My health was bad for a couple months and I always had the feeling like I was being watched. It wasn't until I told my Mom what had happened and she had my Uncles give me a blessing that I started to feel better.

That being said, I have a fascination with the spirit world and I used to go ghost hunting with my friends when we were in high school and on into out early adulthood. I stopped doing that after a bad experience that I won't go into details about. I still enjoy watching shows like Ghost Adventures, but every time they pull out a Ouija Board, spirit box, or Ovulous device I always get the creeps real bad. I prefer to experience ghost hunting on my television, where it's safe.

 

[Online Violence]

As far as native european pre-christian traditions, the neo-pagan stuff is largely cobbled together from pop culture throughout the ages, since a lot of the primary sources were deliberately destroyed or only existed through oral tradition. There's only small fragments we can call truly authentic here and there, the Renaissance and Industrial periods saw a lot of intellectuals and writers try to collect these traditions in order to a reinforce a national/cultural/ethnic mythos, based off of already tertiary Latin and Greek sources. So distorted perceptions of already distorted perceptions, a historical game of chinese whispers on an epic scale (a lot of history is like that tbh).Nordic and Baltic paganism were the last holdouts, so modern reconstructions are plausibly more authentic than, say, Celtic neo-paganism.

 

[Picklechu]

I prefer to experience ghost hunting on my television, where it's safe.

Don't watch Poltergeist.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I personally only worship Odin. I only feel a connection to Odin and have only ever prayed to Odin. To me he is the god of poetry, knowledge, war, honorable death, and bargaining (this is a new thing); and the protector of kings and rogues. I am the latter but I wish to someday become the former. I acknowledge others who follow different gods as being in the same religion as me so I do not like the term Odinist. I would say that probably most people swould only feel an especially strong connection to one deity and that is reflective of their personal relationship with the gods, one should still respect the other gods but active worship of one god is the best except for in situations where one desires the blessings of other gods (for example me praying to Freyja for fertility)

As I specifically am of Scandanavian descent I try to incorporate more sea related iconography but at the moment I am not really at that point in beginning to practice

I consider death by old age to be dishonorable so someday I would probably want to create a form of ritual suicide since it is very difficult to die in battle now but I will save that question until I am 50

I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin but I consider there to be a duty of reproduction as Asatru is not just veneration of one's ancestors but also one's descendants. For this reason I consider it to be a form of infertility and as a result a disease (and I have a disapproval of assisted reproductive technologies for LGBT people due to their inefficiency and risk to the fetus)

If it sounds like I am completely talking out of my ass about all of this it is because that is entirely the case for reasons I explained above

EDIT: I don't like the word heathenry because it shows a sort of antagonism towards christianity

I do not believe that someone can enter Asatru if they lack Germanic ancestry (If they lack it they could practice but it would be meaningless) but they can marry into it because they will be linked by blood through their descendants. Considering that I see it as being completely family based one doesn't have the right to proselytize to unrelated people or any reason to do so

 

[The Dude]

Don't watch Poltergeist.

I actually love that movie, but the scene with the Beast when it's guarding the kids' bedroom on the stairs landing is still pretty creepy.

 

[Melkor]

I found out recently that sage smudging originally came from the American Indians; it's meant to cleanse an area or person and keep away evil spirits or negative energy.

In a lot of the shows I've been watching, sage smudging is involved when people are about to go into a "dangerously haunted house", or a place that is said to be inhabited by a demon.

My sister, who is rather iffy about people outside of the American Indian background using American Indian ceremonies, actually wanted to say that it was cultural appropriation.

While I do think there are some ceremonies that are strictly for a certain group of people, I think sage smudging is one of those things that can be done by anyone. If they know what it's for and they know the cultural background of smudging, what's the harm?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

@Eldritch what do you think about the Vanir and the Aesir
In Norse mythology there are actually 2 pantheons the Vanir who are fertility deities and the Aesir who are war related deities. I consider them to represent masculinity and femininity (and think that the disproportionate worship of the Aesir in contemporary Asatru is a problem that is responsible for the skewed sex ratios of 60-70% male) but I haven't heard much about them

 

[Randall Fragg]

I'm a skeptical person. I don't really believe in ghosts, magic, or UFOs. I do find them interesting, however, and I'm willing to say that there may be things that we can't explain.
The one thing that still gives me goosebumps is the story my dad told me, about when he and his brother were kids and living in rural Virginia. Dad said that his brother was terrified of sleeping in the basement (there was a bedroom down there). He didn't want to talk about it however, trying to brush it off as "it's just creepy". Dad kept pressing him, and eventually Uncle told him why he was scared to sleep in the basement.
Uncle said that he saw a line of people walking back and forth through the basement whenever he stayed down there. "Four black men and one white man"
Now, that's not the creepy part. Anybody can have an overactive imagination, and see shadows on the wall as moving figures.
The creepy part was that when the house was torn down ten or so years later, they found graves in the foundation, dating back to the Civil War.
The graves of four slaves, and a white overseer.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

One of the most powerful (if not THE most) and respected Loa is Ghede, master of the dead, who digs every man's grave on the other side (and must, in order for them to die). He is said to have been the first man who ever died, although his original name and gender are considered lost (and he often flaunts gender stereotypes simply to shock people.) He is generally supposed to be crass, drunken, sexual, and deviant from the norm in any way he can be to make the point that life is short. He isn't fond of white people because he thinks they are very puritanical and serious. They apparently don't like his top hat or find his night time sunglasses weird or something. Or don't drink enough? He kind of just throws complaints out there whenever priests find him. However, because he has conversed with every person to ever die he has gained much of their wisdom, and he is widely sought by practitioners for solutions to things.

Since he was the first person to have died is he often considered to be Abel (the first person who dies in the bible)

 

[EggGender]

I considered converting to Wicca at some point, but I decided not to as some of its aspects didn't sit well with me. I'm far more interested in practicing traditional witchcraft and enhancing my spirituality and mediumship skills. Taking away all the Hollywood flair and tumblr hipster edgy vibes, 'actual', traditional witchcraft boils down to a simple practice that involves the use and manipulation of the spiritual energies believed to be found in all aspects of nature, which requires an animistic belief. Meditation, communicating with spirits and cleansing of the self are also considered to be important aspects of the craft.
The beauty of the practice, for me, is that while it requires a bit of faith, and is considered to be a pagan religion in some instances, there's not a lot of specific rules to follow lest you be punished. There's also no specific deity required to be worshiped, unlike Wicca. Just be respectful to the Mother Nature that you are using energy from, don't fuck around with spirits and be mindful of Universal Karmic law, and you're good. You're also free to hold your own beliefs on the other universal mysteries, such as death, creation, etc etc. I prefer traditional over the sects since it does follow some aspects of science and history and tries to tie things in with metaphysics and the like, compared to the modern versions which, as seen by the Tumblr Wiccan/Witchcraft community, is borderline nonsensical.
As for mediumship, I've had my spiritual encounters, some might be imagined, some might be legit. I figure the only way I'll know for sure in the short-term (ie before death) is to continue practicing the 'skill' of spirit communication and how far it takes me.