Paradox Studio Thread -

Favorite Paradox Game?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

AmpleApricots

kiwifarms.net
I like the idea of Stellaris if that makes sense, with the pop system and politics a bit inspired by Victoria and such. When I first played Victoria 1 (man, that's a long time ago isn't it) my mind was blown by the immersion of actually running a country with pops that have opinions on matters and aren't just mindless drones realizing whatever you think up. That was very new at the time in that particular strategy sector. Of course looking back it wasn't all that intricate and it had a bunch of bugs but well, it was cool and new. Same with CK.

With a few mods Stellaris is also a lot of fun in regards to thinking up and making a race, for me at least. (I can see that's not for everyone) Sadly as soon as you start the game it's just the same old all over again, DLC or not, very same-ish. All the traits and traditions etc. are just veneer and subtract points somewhere and put them somewhere else. They made a piss-poor job at making you feel it.

I think one of the big problems that sets Stellaris apart and doesn't make it play nicely like CK2 or EU or Victoria is that that everyone more or less starts at zero, Civilization-like. This makes the game actually not more open, but with the systems in place very predictable. (Especially when you consider the intrinsic limits of AI) Also AI traditionally doesn't cope well with too few abstractions and too many options and they can't work their randomizer in like in CK to tilt an already preexisting network of Characters and Countries in interesting directions with nearly limitless permutations. The AI in CK wasn't smart at all (especially the war AI was exceptional, even considering the rather simplistic war system) but all the events and the character traits that rulers had that tipped the RNG in favor of specific actions make it all look real lifelike. It often is like these are people that actually have agendas and personalities, even though they're just a set of traits the computer throws dice against.

If they'd pre-craft a hand-tailored universe where everything is sorta established and would also arrange their event system around that and fleshed out the role of characters, it would be a much more interesting game, a lot more in line with their other offerings. Of course it might lose the regular space 4x crowd completely and also would be a risk to undertake, which nobody in the game industry likes.

If you finish that thought you kinda notice that the paradox strategy games (the good ones) were always more about immersion, dreaming up situations and sort of roleplaying even, not about autistically min-maxing the perfect attack stack. I think they should target that more in their design, because it worked very well for their other titles. Instead with all the permanent retrofitting of the systems it seems like they try to please the roleplayers and the twitchy hardcore strategy autists alike (who are more "hardcore" than hardcore, because the AI in these games always has a weak point they end up exploiting) and end up losing both. These games were never really about being a grand strategist to begin with. In many titles with some countries you'd always win, with some you'd always lose. (if you didn't go to autistic length of micromanaging things) CK1/2 are even more or less just gambling with the RNG. You can only do your best and might end up with a game over screen 5 years later or Emperor of Germany - it's still entertaining either way though. I have trouble putting it in words but they should do more of that fuzzy logic CK stuff in their games. It's very unique.
 

d12

Lurker and Resident Normie
kiwifarms.net
Are any of the non-grand strategy titles that they (third-party) publish any good?
The only one I have any experience with is Mount and Blade; it's pretty cool if you like medieval sandbox combat games but like most Paradox products it's the mods that make the game. Idk about the other subsidiaries but I've heard good things about the Harebrained Shadowrun games if you're into that sort of thing. They also published Cities Skylines which is pretty swood.
 

Capsaicin Addict

Just a fellow who loves spicy food.
kiwifarms.net
I think one of the big problems that sets Stellaris apart and doesn't make it play nicely like CK2 or EU or Victoria is that that everyone more or less starts at zero, Civilization-like. This makes the game actually not more open, but with the systems in place very predictable. (Especially when you consider the intrinsic limits of AI) Also AI traditionally doesn't cope well with too few abstractions and too many options and they can't work their randomizer in like in CK to tilt an already preexisting network of Characters and Countries in interesting directions with nearly limitless permutations. The AI in CK wasn't smart at all (especially the war AI was exceptional, even considering the rather simplistic war system) but all the events and the character traits that rulers had that tipped the RNG in favor of specific actions make it all look real lifelike. It often is like these are people that actually have agendas and personalities, even though they're just a set of traits the computer throws dice against.

If they'd pre-craft a hand-tailored universe where everything is sorta established and would also arrange their event system around that and fleshed out the role of characters, it would be a much more interesting game, a lot more in line with their other offerings. Of course it might lose the regular space 4x crowd completely and also would be a risk to undertake, which nobody in the game industry likes.
At the risk of nitpicking, there are options at the game start for Stellaris to add AI empires who are ahead of you, advancement-wise, as well as adding Fallen Empires.

It seems like you're looking for something more like a scripted scenario campaign rather than the standard open-ended game most 4X games run with.
 

Krokodil Overdose

[|][||][||][|_]
kiwifarms.net
It seems like you're looking for something more like a scripted scenario campaign rather than the standard open-ended game most 4X games run with.
I think it's more looking for a hook. CK2's RPG elements make it feel like a mix of EU4 and a really sadistic playthrough of The Sims, and the fact that you get a game over if your line ends (denethor.mp4), your need to run the council, etc. give you more angles to work than just straight up military minmaxing. Also, the fact that it uses historical characters/places/events ramps our interest (in fairness: my interest, at least) because it allows the player to create weird counterfactual scenarios just for the fun of it. In one of my current runs, I went through absolute hell to establish an empire of Buddhist vikings, just because I found the concept amusing. Converting the Blog to Foobulanism, or whatever, doesn't carry the same impact for me simply because I have no particular feelings about either of those things.

That's where I think Stellaris comes up short- it's just That Paradox 4X Game with a sci-fi skin and nothing to give it it's own identity as game.
 
Reactions: Exterminatus

Splendid Meat Sticks

Castigat ridendo mores
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The neat thing about Endless Space is that there's actually a lot of lore and even the most normal empires have insane mechanics that force you to play the game in crazy ways.
 
Reactions: Lackadaisy

Zaryiu

kiwifarms.net
I decided to do something really different: A Persian Empire ruled by an Afghan dynasty of reformed Zunists
 

NeverHappened

That's the sound of books
kiwifarms.net
I'm waiting for planet tiles to die in Stellaris now that it's now known that nothing are to come from them. As of now, I can't even play the current version knowing this. It's a huge update and likely positive, although I don't know why so many more pops will exist.
 

Intelligent Calcium

kiwifarms.net
IDK why people play Stellaris. Is it just brand loyalty to Paradox, or do people just love real time with pause that much? Endless Space 2 is the superior space 4X.
It's flashy, makes big promises and has the company that made EU4 and CK2 behind it. By the time you realize it's an unspired, shallow mess you already played 100 hours and bought all the DLC. But it still has enough potential to keep you trapped in a state of "maybe this DLC/big overhaul patch will finally fix everything" and you just get strung along. Fuck, I typed all this and I'm still hopeful for the 2.2 overhaul and consider getting Megacorp.
 
Reactions: millais

Intelligent Calcium

kiwifarms.net
Some Youtuber accidentally made a post about all the issues with Stellaris 2.2/Megacorp and oh boy does it sound broken. tl;dr: performance will probably be shit, sectors are even more fucked up than before if you can believe it and the AI is too dumb to use most of the new features, which makes the intergalactic market almost pointless in singleplayer. I really wanted to like this but if this is true this update will be a total dumpster fire (again) and with the holidays coming up who knows when this will be fixed.

https://pastebin.com/ynna30Yk
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/a2vyq6/stellaris_22_preview_the_bad_stuff/

(Slow thread so I'm not gonna apologize for the double post)
 
Last edited:

GentlemanFaggot

I got in...
kiwifarms.net
Some Youtuber accidentally made a post about all the issues with Stellaris 2.2/Megacorp and oh boy does it sound broken. tl;dr: performance will probably be shit, sectors are even more fucked up than before if you can believe it and the AI is too dumb to use most of the new features, which makes the intergalactic market almost pointless in singleplayer. I really wanted to like this but if this is true this update will be a total dumpster fire (again) and with the holidays coming up who knows when this will be fixed.

https://pastebin.com/ynna30Yk
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/a2vyq6/stellaris_22_preview_the_bad_stuff/

(Slow thread so I'm not gonna apologize for the double post)
*Sigh* Here we go again. Paradox says the right words about new Stellaris updates and then reality kicks in that it's not going to save a fundamentally dull game...

I really want to like Stellaris and really hope it gets saved one of these days...but that is not today.
 

Jan_Hus

Czech yourself before you wreck yourself
kiwifarms.net
The best part about the Holy Fury/ 3.0 patch for crusader kings was how they reworked elective succession. Each elector has their own preference, based on who the primary title holder has as their heir and the traits of that person as well as their attitude towards their liege-lord.

This is especially relevant in Byzantine Empire games now. They use a modified form of elective succession where your Porphrygenitos children, commanders, eligible councilors and Despot title holders all compete for the imperial throne. Electors are less concerned with the name of the person, but rather "is my emperor's heir worthy enough to be a heir to Rome?" They'll never support a child for the throne unless you bribe them with piles of gold.

Each elector has a pool of influence based on their prestige and titles and skills. The emperor starts out with the most...

but here's the kicker. Let's say my commander is a shining exemplar of the orthodox faith and a true heir to the romans. He's also my chief diplomat. Everybody loves this guy, even though he's a lowborn so they all unite behind him to succeed me. I notice this and boot him off of the council,

I instead put my loyalist drunken wastrel bastard cousin in his place. I also strip him of his command and instead put in my "misguided soldier" heir son in his place. My influence at court has now suffered noticeably and my electors are far less likely to support my heir because I've just appointed someone to the council based solely on the fact that I know they'll vote for my heir. I've also appointed an untested 16 year old to be a general. Do that enough times and your pool of influence will shrink to zero. Your heir might still be elected to the throne, but all of the other potential pretender emperors still keep their "strong claim on Byzantium" when you die. Vassals who supported the pretender heir usually will form a claimant faction meaning that, a close tie between multiple emperors usually results in a massive succession war.
 

Apoth42

Hehe xd
kiwifarms.net
It's flashy, makes big promises and has the company that made EU4 and CK2 behind it. By the time you realize it's an unspired, shallow mess you already played 100 hours and bought all the DLC. But it still has enough potential to keep you trapped in a state of "maybe this DLC/big overhaul patch will finally fix everything" and you just get strung along. Fuck, I typed all this and I'm still hopeful for the 2.2 overhaul and consider getting Megacorp.
Just play Eu3 and Victoria 2. The games have plenty of mods that recreate history and generally accurately represent the growing pains of large empires. Sure you have more money but the inflation from that gold and the rebelliousness of all of those cultures will take their toll. You need fleets to protect your sugar colonies and those pesky nationalistic jihadis will take 3 centuries to go away.

Eu4, Stellaris and CKII keep getting more complex but they still have dogshit depth. You're still painting the map and using arbitrary mechanics that can be easily exploited. As far as unmodded goes, Heir to the Throne was the high point. HTtT made it so that everybody was on a relatively equal footing aside culture/tech, geography and sliders based on reality.

All they had to do is make being bigger a harder experience but they still haven't even tried.
 
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AmpleApricots

kiwifarms.net
Paradox can do interesting systems that AIs never, ever will be able to grasp effectively, hence why I said they should do something that's basically fuzzy and random like the CK games. Makes a lot more sense. Also the stuff so far in place wasn't all bad, just not really used too effectively to it's extremes. A few mods that for example crank up rebellion stuff and political discord already change the game quiet a bit. A modder is just really limited in all he can do, simply because he has no control over the engine and he does it usually in his free time.
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

Fus Ro Dank
kiwifarms.net
Not related to the games: On the stock market Paradox has dropped 32% since June, ~$1 billion lost in half a year. Future market prognosis: DLC and lots of it!

(they're better off than Starbreeze, falling 95% in a single day)
 

Splendid Meat Sticks

Castigat ridendo mores
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Paradox is publicly traded? That's insane, either they're way bigger than I ever imagined, it's a tiny exchange, or Sweden's financial services industry is pathetic.
 
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