Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

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Mudkipcorn

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Nov 12, 2021
Idk if it's making me more right-wing - my opinions haven't really changed - but it does make me dislike the left a lot more. Just in their inability to say "wait a minute, this is retarded. We've gone too far."
This. I don't consider myself right-wing nor do I suspect I ever will. To me the transgender craze and associated discourse isn't any different from encountering the "SJW" wave at university a decade ago. Some people on the left are batshit and fundamentally illiberal. That doesn't make me any less liberal. And I honestly don't have a problem with people taking hormones and presenting as the opposite gender. Some people want to do this for genuine and healthy reasons and a liberal society should let adults do that. My only issue is with the need many have to police how people perceive other people. There are of course the crazies who transition for reasons which are not genuine and healthy. They're easy to make fun of but I still think they should be allowed to do it. I'm curious as to what Boris Blank's glass eye meant by troons violating the social contract as that doesn't make any sense to me.
 

DoubleD

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"she is so fucking clever i wish she were my sister"

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Sparkling Yuzu

✨I love monstergirls and abortion.✨
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Mind numbing at the moment, Chube.

Anyone want to decipher which and how he will mangle the new topic in this “episode” of the “show”?
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(We’ve got a good chance of some excellent racial cringe in this one- I think he might really pad out his theory about how he is just as oppressed as a plantation slave in 1820, by the fact that he didn’t get a tit job on the second visit to the GPs.. his fatal Me’ism is probably gonna make a helll of a trip hazard for him here- I think the critique that he got from the all-pointer trxns of colour, about being too White, in that youtube comment section has wound him up and so he’s bopped this out.

This is gonnna be good I think. Looking forward to seeing various subreddits take on it..
Hopefully it ends with him getting canceled for racism and necking himself.
Idk if it's making me more right-wing - my opinions haven't really changed - but it does make me dislike the left a lot more. Just in their inability to say "wait a minute, this is retarded. We've gone too far."
I'm still a leftist, I'm just more cautious about what the liberal media and institutions claim is progressive now. Trans shit is clearly bourgeois, identitarian bullshit incompatible with leftism.
 
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IAmNotAlpharius

Nothing to see here. Move along citizen.
True & Honest Fan
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I guess in the moment it was just par for the course with Olly but my God the absolute horror of that butt shot. Ostensibly he’s a troon who pretends to know about philosophy but in reality he’s adding to the absolute ugliness of the world. He’s literally Fartman.
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I’m reminded of why I believe 9/10 philosophy majors deserve to be shot into the sun.
My point is that Breadtubers love to misread, misquote and cite their sources improperly overall. I don’t think it’s a grand conspiracy, rather they know they can get away with being lazy so long as it serves their content. I’m sure it happens far more frequently than I know of, especially with The Tube. It’d be kinda insulting if the academic laziness of it all wasn’t so funny.
I don’t want to say all social sciences but a lot of people who write in that field are guilty of this. It’s easier for them to be less rigorous than creators with a historical or scientific bent, in part because they care most about creating a narrative. It’s part and parcel of being a political activist. The left isn’t the only one guilty of this. At times Sargon has driven me up the wall when discussing history and so have a few other conservative channels.
 

Zarael

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Jan 27, 2020
And I honestly don't have a problem with people taking hormones and presenting as the opposite gender. Some people want to do this for genuine and healthy reasons and a liberal society should let adults do that
How does someone write something like this and not snap back to reality and realize just how far down the slippery slope they've fallen. You're ok with people dosing themselves up with hormones so they can roleplay as the opposite sex? Why? That's not liberalism that libertinism and there is a big difference between the two. You need to realize that just because someone doing something personally might not directly affect anyone else it affects society as a whole. Standards of decency, while they might be restricting upon individuals who want to flout cultural mores, make society a lot more nice to live in overall. There is a balance to be maintained between what the individual has the right to do and the needs of people to maintain a level of decorum so society can function properly without having to grimace your way through the day trying to pretend the 300lb gorilla in a dress screaming "It's MA'AM" at you is actually a woman.
 

Bush King

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I don’t want to say all social sciences but a lot of people who write in that field are guilty of this. It’s easier for them to be less rigorous than creators with a historical or scientific bent, in part because they care most about creating a narrative. It’s part and parcel of being a political activist. The left isn’t the only one guilty of this. At times Sargon has driven me up the wall when discussing history and so have a few other conservative channels.
Granted my experience is high school science, but even there the requirements were much more rigorous. The social sciences outside of economics do not train you to be impartial. You are given (or at better institutions, told to formulate) a thesis and then expected to prove it. Even basic science courses teach you to formulate an experiment to prove or disprove a hypothesis, and the main point of discussion is the hypothesis itself. Economics is the closest to this in my experience. Rarely did I ever actively ignore opposing citations/cherry pick/try to prove something that was shakey. A physics class will mark you on how well you understand the topic, can explain the point of an experiment, set up the experiment, etc, but a psychology or accounting unit with a written assessment will mark you on how well you can apply the topic to some case study. Being wrong is not marked down that much. It doesn't help that a lot of units simply have "X number of sources = Y mark" rather than rating for quality or even relevance. It's great if students actually investigate the topic, but the reality is they are simply finding sources that match the topic given, linking them to the topic, and discussing the topic with those sources.

Unless you are doing a Doctoral level course, perhaps a few of the Masters level courses, the vast majority of students hit the first few results of whatever Google spits out and work off that. 90% of Youtube "intellectuals" are lucky if they have a Bachelors in the relevant topic, let alone a Bachelors generally. They apply this same method to their video production. Very few go the extra steps, I can really only name the Adam and Sitch Show and Short Fat Otaku, which is why they are both very late to the topics they discuss. Maybe TIK in the history sphere too. I'll give Sargon credit for actually reading everything he discusses (and bringing relevant people on his podcast), but he keeps his lens on 24/7.

To give even Philosophy Tube credit, they were never properly trained to undertake academic work in academia, and the vast majority of sources out there will do the same as them if you dig deep enough. "Looks good enough" is rampant even in Doctorate courses, or that level of research and citation will be very specific regarding the cited work where those at lower levels are allowed to simply cite the work as a whole rather than whole paragraphs (you will be penalised for quoting too much of a work despite it's relevance sometimes). One citation on a page is normal in a Doctoral thesis, it means you've put zero effort in a Bachelors. Academia has a serious problem with this, but it is a matter of scale and resources- you are taught science dogmatically in school until late high school, where you are given the tools and expected to formulate the end result yourself. Likewise, a Bachelor is preparing you to apply skills in the workplace, not have rigourous training in a field, which is why Bachelors in Accounting are expected to work under someone with 10+ years of experience before being given free reign on their duties.
 

Stupid Sexy Flanders

Feels like I'm wearing... nothing at all...
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"she is so fucking clever i wish she were my sister"

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How is that clever?

All it means that if you strip down to the bare bones of who and what Olly is, without any exaggerated gender expressions and slut uwu whore clothes, he's just a dude. If he gets around to removing his penis, he'll just be a dude without a penis.
 

Mudkipcorn

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Nov 12, 2021
How does someone write something like this and not snap back to reality and realize just how far down the slippery slope they've fallen. You're ok with people dosing themselves up with hormones so they can roleplay as the opposite sex? Why? That's not liberalism that libertinism and there is a big difference between the two. You need to realize that just because someone doing something personally might not directly affect anyone else it affects society as a whole[...]
Transgenderism is an ongoing craze. I don't see any way you could clamp down on it (which you and I both agree is something that ought to occur) without being authroritarian. Gender nihilism should be argued against. People succumbing to delusion should be critiqued and even bullied to a certain extent. Unneccersarry medical treatments for minors should be banned. If you're not okay with 'people dosing themselves up with hormones' then what should be done about it? You don't actually say you think it should all be banned. Maybe you don't believe so. In any case, to me that is a far too draconian and counterproductive step. Maybe I am a bit of a libertine but I'd rather be that than an authoritarian.

Unless you are doing a Doctoral level course, perhaps a few of the Masters level courses, the vast majority of students hit the first few results of whatever Google spits out and work off that.
In my experience this isn't true at all at the master level, nor at the bachelor level at any of the institutions I attended or worked at. The stuff you need to engage with isn't really found on google unless you already know and are searching for the title of a book/article/essay. I don't deny that the nature of research in the social sciences/humanities is much more conducive to bullshitting. You can't bullshit in the sciences at all, really. But I think a lot of people underestimate what it takes to earn a degree in the humanities. No, you can't just spit out buzzwords and say 'white man bad'. Just a little defensive sperging from my humanities-entrenched ass.

I agree with you about undergraduate programs and even high school overemphasizing sources. And because so many people's education is limited to that, well, that's why we see video essayists regularly churn out bloated bibliographies. Because they think it's criteria no. 1 for gauging whether an essay is good. Also worth noting, as you do, that Tube doesn't really have much of an academic background. As I've said before, that is what triggers me most: his pretense about being a philosophy educator. There's nothing wrong with being a video essayist (well...). Just accept it, Tube!

I won't shit up the thread anymore with my own opinions on trannies, society and academia so I'll leave it there.

Also, it bothers me that he has such a detailed wikipedia page while any mention of Chris is still banned.*sigh*
 

scathefire

not "scat the fire"
True & Honest Fan
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Apr 25, 2018
Transgenderism is an ongoing craze. I don't see any way you could clamp down on it (which you and I both agree is something that ought to occur) without being authroritarian. Gender nihilism should be argued against. People succumbing to delusion should be critiqued and even bullied to a certain extent. Unneccersarry medical treatments for minors should be banned. If you're not okay with 'people dosing themselves up with hormones' then what should be done about it? You don't actually say you think it should all be banned. Maybe you don't believe so. In any case, to me that is a far too draconian and counterproductive step. Maybe I am a bit of a libertine but I'd rather be that than an authoritarian.
To be fair I think at least some trans medical procedures shouldn't be performed simply because they clearly violate the "do no harm" Hippocratic principle. For example, is doing this to someone's perfectly fine penis and creating a permanent open wound in someone's crotch really ethical? In other words, is permanently mutilating someone's healthy body parts for no medical purpose really justified? In my opinion the answer is no, it's pure butchery. Hormones are bit more nuanced, there are probably at least some people that it would help but since it involves permanent changes to someone's body, again with no medical purpose, they should not just be handed out like candy like they are right now. The current narrative is that it's bigotry to deny anybody immediate access to transition, which is obviously unsustainable and is going to end up with a lot of people mad that nobody stopped them.
 

PennyAni

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Sep 12, 2021
Bruh imagine hating a musical where every single song is good. Most musicals have ups and downs but Cats is just banger after banger after banger. I really don't understand the hate for it besides not liking the costumes or whatever. I guess it has goofy moments sometimes but the hate for it is unwarranted imo.

Ugh I hadnt ever heard of Kim Petras before. Sounds horrid. Even back when I semi- liked PT, I recognized that his taste in music was unfathomable and just bad. Idk if the Bowie thing was because he thought that lyrically it was about or could be about being trans? Either way??
I don't think the hate boner for Cats is unwarranted, nor is every song a good one.

"Memory"- however- is a good song.

No honey, not every single fucking thing including the abortion debate is about you. Ffs.
 

Anteros

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Nov 3, 2021
To be fair I think at least some trans medical procedures shouldn't be performed simply because they clearly violate the "do no harm" Hippocratic principle. For example, is doing this to someone's perfectly fine penis and creating a permanent open wound in someone's crotch really ethical? In other words, is permanently mutilating someone's healthy body parts for no medical purpose really justified? In my opinion the answer is no, it's pure butchery. Hormones are bit more nuanced, there are probably at least some people that it would help but since it involves permanent changes to someone's body, again with no medical purpose, they should not just be handed out like candy like they are right now. The current narrative is that it's bigotry to deny anybody immediate access to transition, which is obviously unsustainable and is going to end up with a lot of people mad that nobody stopped them.
Yeah tbh I have zero idea why the medical ethics aspect is completely absent from the debate (at least now that places like r/neovaginadisasters are banned). But the cynic in me says it wouldn't matter anyways since medicine has become more or less a business
 

cia-log

women and gahls
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I'm still a leftist, I'm just more cautious about what the liberal media and institutions claim is progressive now. Trans shit is clearly bourgeois, identitarian bullshit incompatible with leftism.
If anything this has pushed me further left. The fragility of labor rights becomes obvious when any soft spoken rich boy can completely derail it by insisting we stop everything to talk about how we haven't been nice enough to him specifically.

To be fair I think at least some trans medical procedures shouldn't be performed simply because they clearly violate the "do no harm" Hippocratic principle. For example, is doing this to someone's perfectly fine penis and creating a permanent open wound in someone's crotch really ethical? In other words, is permanently mutilating someone's healthy body parts for no medical purpose really justified? In my opinion the answer is no, it's pure butchery. Hormones are bit more nuanced, there are probably at least some people that it would help but since it involves permanent changes to someone's body, again with no medical purpose, they should not just be handed out like candy like they are right now. The current narrative is that it's bigotry to deny anybody immediate access to transition, which is obviously unsustainable and is going to end up with a lot of people mad that nobody stopped them.
Yeah I don't believe in thought policing, so if someone wants to genuinely believe they're the opposite sex even though I think it's stupid I couldn't say they're not allowed to think that. On the other hand the medical industry is obviously all too happy to shave away peoples bones, cut off their flesh, make them extremely vulnerable to infection etc. which is just wrong and disgusting.

And anyway, they're always on about blah blah muh nonwestern cultures had troons blah blah, did the Lakota have SRS or FFS surgery for the two spirits they can't shut up about? If it was fine for them to just dress up as women or say they're women why is it suddenly imperative that we suddenly have state funded body horror?
 

Boris Blank's glass eye

I just play vicious games.
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I'm curious as to what @Boris Blank's glass eye meant by troons violating the social contract as that doesn't make any sense to me.
With as little politisperging as possible, establishing trannies as a protected class had the practical effect of giving already privileged white men even more privilege. See Chube, the Wachowskis, Prickless Pritzker, or any number of tenured tranny professors merrily spreading their bullshit without any fear of reprisal. Troon armour allowed mediocre male sportsmen to dominate their competition in women's sports. No one cares about the often cited "high numbers of BAME transgender sex workers murdered" ultimately, not even the TRAs parroting them.
Putting trannies in women's prisons caused a high number of "unexpected and unexplained pregnancies".
People pointing any of this out is "hateful and bigoted transphobia".

Trannies and their tranny issues also allowed several governments implement increasingly authoritarian measures in both woke and anti-LGBT directions. See California, Canada, and the UK in particular for the former and Hungary and Russia for the latter.

In my opinion these trends and events erode the fabric of society and the social contract - or at least my understanding of the latter concept.
 

V4L_Penis

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Feb 3, 2021
I know this is late, but I tried listening to an episode of the Kill James Bond podcast and holy fuck are Olly and the rest of the other troons unbearable. Just a bunch of out of touch upper class cunts who probably only trooned out so they could score victim points and have their leftist cocksuck fans overlook their actual wealth and privilege
 

Anteros

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Joined
Nov 3, 2021
And anyway, they're always on about blah blah muh nonwestern cultures had troons blah blah, did the Lakota have SRS or FFS surgery for the two spirits they can't shut up about? If it was fine for them to just dress up as women or say they're women why is it suddenly imperative that we suddenly have state funded body horror?
This one in particular really irks me. Imagine being so woke you end up becoming racist; the underlying implication behind "the sex binary is a COLONIAL INVENTION" is that no one outside Europe knew how babies are made, like wtf-
 

cia-log

women and gahls
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This one in particular really irks me. Imagine being so woke you end up becoming racist; the underlying implication behind "the sex binary is a COLONIAL INVENTION" is that no one outside Europe knew how babies are made, like wtf-
the "two spirit" doesn't even make any sense unless you admit that there are two genders lmao

also the fact that two spirit refers blatantly to effeminate gay men and not to aidens, which is something that western culture has also provisioned for for a very long time, but that doesn't count because cross sex hormones and plastic surgery are human rights and it says so in the Lakota religion.
 

lady stoneheart

misandrist
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How does someone write something like this and not snap back to reality and realize just how far down the slippery slope they've fallen. You're ok with people dosing themselves up with hormones so they can roleplay as the opposite sex? Why? That's not liberalism that libertinism and there is a big difference between the two. You need to realize that just because someone doing something personally might not directly affect anyone else it affects society as a whole. Standards of decency, while they might be restricting upon individuals who want to flout cultural mores, make society a lot more nice to live in overall. There is a balance to be maintained between what the individual has the right to do and the needs of people to maintain a level of decorum so society can function properly without having to grimace your way through the day trying to pretend the 300lb gorilla in a dress screaming "It's MA'AM" at you is actually a woman.
basically i think i have no right to tell adults that they can’t burn down their lives with experimental medical procedures if they want to, but in exchange i am allowed to not like it and i should not be forced to treat them in any specific way (besides non-violently, unless given reason to defend myself of course). your right to swing your fist stops at the tip of my nose etc. in response to your example of grimacing at a 300lb it’s ma’am, men have every right to be fat and try to look like women even if it is creepy and revolting, but i am not obligated to not make fun of them or treat them as anything other than fat creeps and they should accept that. this applies to legal issues and traditionally single-sex spaces as well obviously.

also even tho i am mostly pro universal healthcare i do not want to pay for any cosmetic procedures, so these elective meds and surgeries should not be covered.