Pillow angels/Ashley X -

[LegoTugboat]

So, for those of you that don't know, the Pillow Angel, or Ashley X treatment is where a child that is heavily mentally impaired and is approaching/has started puberty is taken to a hospital, and has surgery done to remove/block the puberty causing hormones, keeping them as effectively a child for their adult lives.

Ashley X was the first child to have this treatment done when she began entering puberty at the age of six and a half, with the parents saying it was to prevent discomfort through large breasts, cramping and menstruation, and removing the possibility of her getting pregnant.

Since a child that has this procedure will effective stay at the same size forever, it also makes them easier to take care of by parents and any caretakers.

However, this does mean that regardless of how old the child is, they will be effectively remain at the age they had the surgery at, so if a person that was born in, say, 1990 had the operation done when they were 6, they would 26 now, but still be the same age, height and weight of a six year old.

So, what's your view on this, Kiwis? Should we let the mentally impaired to grow and develop naturally, or should we try to limit or prevent any damage that might occur, be it to themselves or to others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Treatment

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think that the ashley treatment is based on the misguided idea that a being in pain is intrinsically bad and a being in pleasure is intrinsically good and that in reality none of this applies. I would argue that the pillow angel would actually get more benefit from being euthanized and then getting benefit by proxy through siblings that its parents will be able to have because of not having the burden of caring for the pillow angel. In addition the parents are the ones making the decision and they definitely benefit from euthanizing it. If euthanasia is illegal in their jurisdiction then the parents can just put it in fostercare. As far as the ashley treatment goes I think it should be legal because I don't think that the government has any reason to make it illegal but I think that it is completely pointless and euthanasia is the superior option

Why would you not want to sterilize the retarded?

These conditions are not necessarily genetic

 

[Alberto Balsalm]

While it might have been beneficial in the short-term, as no better options existed at the time, I don't think that this is the first route that doctors should be exploring when treating children with conditions like hers. The ultimate goal should be to reverse these symptoms and allow disabled people to live as rich and fulfilling of a life as possible, not cripple them even further just to make it easier for their wranglers to deal with them.

 

[wheat pasta]

It may seem unethical or what have you, but consider that the caretaker of the girl is the one who has to take care of her (oh yes, I do mean cleaning as well) through every single period that she has. It'll also be less painful in the long term for the girl who has no control over her body. I'm 100% for it.
I actually know a woman who cares for two adult daughters by herself. It's an immense task and she's been trying for a long time to get hold of a surgeon who will actually help her with this problem instead of looking down their noses and insinuating that she's cruel somehow for wanting to make her life-- as well as the life of her daughters! --easier.

 

[Zim]

I'm with @wheat pasta on this. It would depend heavily on how disabled the person is but if you're a parent who is going to be burdened with taking care of your child for their entire life then you should take steps to make this easier for you and them. This is especially important when you get older and your now adult child is bigger and possibly stronger then you are. It's much easier to handle an upset, flailing 6 year old then an upset, flailing 26 year old.

 

[Alberto Balsalm]

I'm with @wheat pasta on this. It would depend heavily on how disabled the person is but if you're a parent who is going to be burdened with taking care of your child for their entire life then you should take steps to make this easier for you and them. This is especially important when you get older and your now adult child is bigger and possibly stronger then you are. It's much easier to handle an upset, flailing 6 year old then an upset, flailing 26 year old.

Ashley was most certainly not "flailing". She gained the nickname of Pillow Angel because she was barely capable of moving her own body.

While I intend no disrespect to the caretakers of disabled people, who have certainly taken on a great burden, I think it's important to allow the disabled - even the profoundly retarded - to have basic human rights. Performing such invasive, irreversible, and highly experimental procedures on someone's body without their consent is like placing them on the level of an animal.

 

[heavycream]

Ashley was most certainly not "flailing". She gained the nickname of Pillow Angel because she was barely capable of moving her own body.

While I intend no disrespect to the caretakers of disabled people, who have certainly taken on a great burden, I think it's important to allow the disabled - even the profoundly retarded - to have basic human rights. Performing such invasive, irreversible, and highly experimental procedures on someone's body without their consent is like placing them on the level of an animal.

And at that point, we may as well honour them with what we'd do with a sick animal: put them down.

 

[Dovahshit]

im for it.
if the disabled child in question doesnt experience pain from it.

 

[💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗]

Depends on how retarded we're talking and if the retard seems like they would be happier without puberty. Teaching the mentally handicapped how to deal with menstruation is NOT fun and big horny retards can be a giant pain to deal with.

So: yes if the retard seems like they won't be able to cope with puberty in a healthy way, no if they're high functioning enough to understand what's going on and deal with it in a reasonable way.

It may seem unethical or what have you, but consider that the caretaker of the girl is the one who has to take care of her (oh yes, I do mean cleaning as well) through every single period that she has. It'll also be less painful in the long term for the girl who has no control over her body. I'm 100% for it.
I actually know a woman who cares for two adult daughters by herself. It's an immense task and she's been trying for a long time to get hold of a surgeon who will actually help her with this problem instead of looking down their noses and insinuating that she's cruel somehow for wanting to make her life-- as well as the life of her daughters! --easier.

Oh yeah, it sucks really bad in some cases.
> tard thinks menstrual pads are uncomfortable
> tard throw them around when she's angry, tries to get away with freebleeding
> tard gets period blood all over her fingers when she tries to masturbate because like any other teenager, she's horny
> menstrual cramps makes tard throw tantrums and her adult size makes her difficult to restrain
If there are several tards living together, they might even try having sex with each other. Puberty can be a real problem for people like that.

 

[White bubblegum]

Depends on how retarded we're talking and if the retard seems like they would be happier without puberty. Teaching the mentally handicapped how to deal with menstruation is NOT fun and big horny retards can be a giant pain to deal with.

So: yes if the retard seems like they won't be able to cope with puberty in a healthy way, no if they're high functioning enough to understand what's going on and deal with it in a reasonable way.


Oh yeah, it sucks really bad in some cases.
> tard thinks menstrual pads are uncomfortable
> tard throw them around when she's angry, tries to get away with freebleeding
> tard gets period blood all over her fingers when she tries to masturbate because like any other teenager, she's horny
> menstrual cramps makes tard throw tantrums and her adult size makes her difficult to restrain
If there are several tards living together, they might even try having sex with each other. Puberty can be a real problem for people like that.

pillow angel isnt even functional enough for all of that. But menstruation would be hard to deal with for her parents, uncomfortable for her, and increase the risk of infection because it's hard to keep a potato who's bleeding all day constantly dry. Especially for her parents, it would get hard for them to take care of her if she were allowed to grow to her adult size. Letting her develop would only hurt her and she's too retarded to make any of her own decisions, so anything that could improve her life short of ending it(which is also a good option) should be considered.

But your reasoning is why tards get put on birth control, or sterillized. Dont forget the possibility of a tard getting raped by a caretaker and getting pregnant(or the caretaker pregnant, eugh).

 

[Kosher Dill]

Dont forget the possibility of a tard getting raped by a caretaker

This is what ultimately tips me over the line to supporting this treatment. The "possibility" is more like a "probability" if a severely disabled female outlives her parents and ends up in an institution.

 

[biozeminadae1]

Just kill them.

 

[GenociderSyo]

This is what ultimately tips me over the line to supporting this treatment. The "possibility" is more like a "probability" if a severely disabled female outlives her parents and ends up in an institution.

It is sick just how common this situation is. Really shows you though how well they vet nurses and caretakers in those places...

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

if you're going to allow that surgery why not cut off their arms and legs as well? It will make them easier to take care of. And the obvious thing to say is that you should put them down. We all know that's true at some level

 

[GenociderSyo]

if you're going to allow that surgery why not cut off their arms and legs as well? It will make them easier to take care of. And the obvious thing to say is that you should put them down. We all know that's true at some level

I've personally never had a client who had it done and i work with extremely low functioning populations. It is very controversial and I'm not sure many doctors would do it.

 

[muh_moobs]

Eugenics is the correct answer.

Fetuses should be screened for defects and aborted. It is unethical and inhumane to allow needless human suffering.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Eugenics is the correct answer.

Fetuses should be screened for defects and aborted. It is unethical and inhumane to allow needless human suffering.

Not just fetusses, people that use reddit should be screened for this too.