Poll: what people in the world believe that the holocaust happened? - Intentional extermination campaign, gaschambers, 6 million dead jews

Did the holocaust happen? (Intentional extermination campaign, gaschambers, +/- 6 million dead jews)

  • I live in the american continent: Holocaust happened

    Votes: 122 32.9%
  • I live in the american continent: Holocaust probably happened

    Votes: 59 15.9%
  • I live in the american continent: Holocaust probably didn't happen

    Votes: 26 7.0%
  • I live in the american continent: Holocaust didn't happen

    Votes: 36 9.7%
  • I live in europe: Holocaust happened

    Votes: 42 11.3%
  • I live in europe: Holocaust probably happened

    Votes: 15 4.0%
  • I live in europe: Holocaust probably didn't happen

    Votes: 8 2.2%
  • I live in europe: Holocaust didn't happen

    Votes: 15 4.0%
  • I live in asia: Holocaust happened

    Votes: 8 2.2%
  • I live in asia: Holocaust probably happened

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • I live in asia: Holocaust probably didn't happen

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • I live in asia: Holocaust didn't happen

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • I live in africa: Holocaust happened

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I live in africa: Holocaust probably happened

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • I live in africa: Holocaust probably didn't happen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I live in africa: Holocaust didn't happen

    Votes: 7 1.9%
  • I am an aussie and I will fuck with your poll

    Votes: 29 7.8%

  • Total voters
    371

Leaf Wage Slave

Need Time Machine to save Harambe
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Holocaust definitely happened but it was definitely blown out of proportion with tons of fake facts and speculation. The Holocaust tends to massively overshadow other horrific and more recent stuff like the gulags in the USSR and the Vietnam 're-education camps' which is pretty annoying and hypocritical.

As terrible as the Holocaust was I feel like its pretty fucking irrelevant now and I'm tired of hearing about it.
To paraphrase a guy I've talked to irl - "The Holocaust definitely happened, but it was no where near that number - otherwise, there'd be records of that many deaths, because if there's one thing Germans do better than anyone it's keep records."

Personally, I feel like they just keep adjusting the number for inflation.
 

Chugger

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
I thought mine was big, but rare to find someone with such a big chip on his shoulder.
Well it seems you guys think that wherever they were sent they didn't need to be supplied. Kind of like Sim City people. Even the Nazis didn't deny their 'personhood' to this extent.

To paraphrase a guy I've talked to irl - "The Holocaust definitely happened, but it was no where near that number - otherwise, there'd be records of that many deaths, because if there's one thing Germans do better than anyone it's keep records."

Personally, I feel like they just keep adjusting the number for inflation.

Those records would have obviously been top secret so they may have been destroyed, but we do have Korherr's statistical report, which lists a decrease in European Jewish population by 4 million by the end of 1942. There is also the Hofle Telegram which gives precise kill numbers for Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Lublin (Majdanek)
 

Bonesjones

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Those records would have obviously been top secret so they may have been destroyed, but we do have Korherr's statistical report, which lists a decrease in European Jewish population by 4 million by the end of 1942. There is also the Hofle Telegram which gives precise kill numbers for Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Lublin (Majdanek)
If only you had bodies to go with those reports, it sure would be easy to prove.
 

Chugger

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
If only you had bodies to go with those reports, it sure would be easy to prove.
for the 10th time, the bodies were destroyed.

But if you are so curious you could probably gather some bone fragments from these sites and get them dna tested


the reason no such project (exhaustive DNA testing of remains) has been undertaken is because there's no reason to. revisionist arguments are so weak very few are convinced. Even on a Jew "skeptical" forum like this you are outnumbered almost 3 to 1
 
Last edited:

draggs

I KNOW WHO YOU ARRRRRRRRRRRRE!! *BLOOD OCEAN*
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
To paraphrase a guy I've talked to irl - "The Holocaust definitely happened, but it was no where near that number - otherwise, there'd be records of that many deaths, because if there's one thing Germans do better than anyone it's keep records."

Personally, I feel like they just keep adjusting the number for inflation.
They have literal mountains of records for concentration and death camps. It's only in the last months of the war that records start getting spotty because they destroyed a lot of them and a lot were lost in the confusion of the war when the SS was evacuating camps ASAP before American or Russian soldiers showed up

The question concerns how many were shot by einsatzgruppen and deliberately starved in ghettos before the death camps got started up, that's where the numbers aren't as solidly documented

There are memoranda written by Himmler asking the SS boys with thick glasses to find a better way to kill carloads of people than shooting them in front of big holes in the ground because it was having a very bad psychological effect on the SS men doing the shooting. Himmler was not happy that his men were being ruined by shooting hundreds or thousands of people in the back of the neck from close range all the time. He wanted to find a way to get the shit done without fucking up the men doing it, the cream of Aryan civilization, who weren't supposed to get PTSD and turn into wrecked drunks from killing Jews... except they were. Why did he write those memos? Was he LARPing on the Reich's time writing the lore for his Holocaust D&D game night?
 
Last edited:

Bonesjones

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
for the 10th time, the bodies were destroyed.

But if you are so curious you could probably gather some bone fragments from these sites and get them dna tested


the reason no such project (exhaustive DNA testing of remains) has been undertaken is because there's no reason to. revisionist arguments are so weak very few are convinced. Even on a Jew "skeptical" forum like this you are outnumbered almost 3 to 1
Again, the remains of millions of people didn't just get destroyed, so they must have vanished into thin air, with no trace of what killed them nor where they went. Weird. You know we have words for things that don't exist and can't he proven right?

Again, with no factual backing you just say you are correct, and now you try to use some sort of method of social manipulation. As if a billion people couldn't be wrong. Remember, the truth stands alone.
 

Chugger

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Again, the remains of millions of people didn't just get destroyed, so they must have vanished into thin air, with no trace of what killed them nor where they went. Weird. You know we have words for things that don't exist and can't he proven right?

Again, with no factual backing you just say you are correct, and now you try to use some sort of method of social manipulation. As if a billion people couldn't be wrong. Remember, the truth stands alone.
Where did I say the remains disappeared?
 

Chugger

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Bodies leave bones and ash, pounds of it. If you destroy a million bodies, you are left with landscape altering amounts of leftovers. Just because you find the remains of 100 people doesn't mean you can claim that their are 10000 more hiding around the corner.
If you did a dig (and people have) at sites like Belzec, Sobibor, and Chelmno you would find huge amounts of cremains (which is exactly what archeologists say they found). You just don't trust them because they aren't revisionists.

What reason do the Jews have to cede to your demands? There is at present no risk or indication of the history being overturned.
 

Bonesjones

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
If you did a dig (and people have) at sites like Belzec, Sobibor, and Chelmno you would find huge amounts of cremains (which is exactly what archeologists say they found). You just don't trust them because they aren't revisionists.

What reason do the Jews have to cede to your demands? There is at present no risk or indication of the history being overturned.
Huge amounts doesn't cover all. I know you are just deflecting because it's all your capable of.

Lol there you go with your Jewish superiority again, you can't even pretend to hide it.
 

Chugger

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Huge amounts doesn't cover all. I know you are just deflecting because it's all your capable of.

Lol there you go with your Jewish superiority again, you can't even pretend to hide it.
Why don't you share for the people what they should have found but didn't

What findings would be consistent with the witness testimony of bodies being removed from enormous graves, burned, ashes filtered through sieves and dumped back into the graves?


Grave Pit No. 1

The grave pit No. 1 was situated in the north-western part of the camp. It was in the shape of an irregular rectangle with the size of 40 meters by 12 meters and with a depth of 4.80 meters. The pit was filled with bodies in wax-fat, transformation; from the depth of about 2 meters burnt human bones and charcoal were mixed together. Such contents were already found at the depth of about 20-30 cm's from the surface. Burnt human bones and charcoal were also found samples drilled out in the area around the pit. Underground waters appeared at the depth of 4.10 meters. The estimated volume of the pit was about 1,500 meters.

Grave Pit No. 2

Located in the north-eastern part of the camp. Dimensions of the grave were determined as 14 meters by 6 meters, with the depth of 2 meters. Crematory grave with the volume of about 170 meters.

Grave Pit No. 3

Located in the southern part of the camp. This was the first mass grave, the location of which was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken in 1944. It appears as a T-shaped white patch and has the appearance of being the biggest grave in the camp. Dimensions of the grave were determined as 16 meters by 15 meters and a depth of over 5 meters. The grave contained a mixture of carbonised wood, fragments of burnt human bones, pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human fat, and fragments of unburned human bones. The bottom layer consisted of putrid wax-fat transformation. The volume of the pit was about 960 meters.

Grave Pit No.4

The pit was registered at the borderline in the southern part. The grave was in the shape of a rectangle and dimensions were determined as 16 meters by 6 meters. The drilling was suspended at the depth of 2.30 meters because of a layer of bodies in wax-fat transformation. The volume of crematory part is about 250 meters.

Grave Pit No.5

Located in the south-western part of the camp. The grave had the shape of an irregular lengthened rectangle with the dimensions of 32 meters by 10 meters, reaching a depth of over 4.5 meters. It was of a homogenous content. Studies of its crematory layers structure suggested multiple filling of the grave with burnt relics. The layer with the biggest thickness and intensity of crematory contents appeared in the lowest part of the pit and was about 1 meter thick; above 50 cm thick layer of soil, 4 following layers of crematory remains appeared, separated from each other with 20-30 cm layers of sand. The volume of the pit was about 1350 meters.

Grave Pit No. 6

This grave was located in the south-central part of the camp. It had the shape of a lengthened rectangle, with the dimensions of 30 meters by 10 meters with a depth of 4 meters. The ashes were scattered around the grave, reaching the depth of 1 meter. The grave contained homogenous crematory contents. The volume of the pit was about 1200 meters.

Grave Pit No. 7

This grave was located in the north-central part of the camp, where one of the concrete pylons, commemorating the camps victims was erected during the 1960's was situated. The shape of the pit similar to a high trapezoid, with dimensions of 13 meters by 14 meters, and a height of about 27 meters, and the depth of 4.5 meters. The grave was homogenous with crematory ashes and sand. The lowest layer with the thickness of over 1.5 meters contained the most intensive traces of body ashes. The upper layer contained brick rubble and stones at the depth of 0.8 meters. The volume of the grave was about 1600 meters.

Grave Pit No. 8

This grave was located in the south-western part of the camp. The second pylon from the 1960's was erected over it. The general shape of the grave was in the shape of a lengthened rectangle, with the dimensions of 28 meters by 10 meters. Additional drilling revealed that 2 neighbouring graves existed, joined together as one, at a later date. The depth of the original grave was about 4 meters, and the bottom layer consisted of dense crematory remains. The fillings were covered with 20 -30 cm of sand, coming probably from the soil separating the graves. The ditch created that way, with the depth of 2 meters was filled with body ashes, charcoal and brick rubble. The volume of the pit amounted to about 850 meters.

Grave Pit No. 9

A relatively small grave with an irregular shape was located in the eastern part of the camp, between the pylon, and the present line of the camp enclosure. The pit was an irregular shape with the dimensions of 8 meters by 10 meters. The depth exceeded 3.80 meters. The contents of the pit were crematory remains and charcoal. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 280 meters.

Grave Pit No. 10

One of the biggest graves located in the north-central part of the camp. It was rectangular in shape, with dimensions of 24 meters by 18 meters. The grave was very deep, over 5.20 meters, and the drills were stopped because of bodies in wax-fat transformation and underground waters. One drill at the depth of 4.40 meters revealed the appearance of several centimetres layer of white sand mixed with rich lime. Over body layers there were some levels of crematory remains, mixed with charcoal in turn with layers of sandy soil. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 2100 meters.

Grave Pit No.11

This grave of relatively small volume was located in the north-eastern corner of the camp. The dimensions of the grave was 9 meters by 5 meters with a depth of 1.90 meters. A small layer of crematory remains was found. At the depth of about 50 cm remains of musty wood was located. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 80 meters.

Grave Pit No.12

Located immediately to the north of grave pit 10, an L-shaped grave with the foot measuring 20 meters, with a depth that reached below 4 meters. The grave contained crematory in layers. In the separating layers charcoal and brick rubble was found. The volume of the grave amounted to about 400 meters.

Grave Pit No. 13

Located towards the west of grave No. 12. One of the concrete ever-burning fires from the 1960's was placed over it. Dimensions of the grave which was trapezoid in shape, was determined as 12.50 meters by 11 meters and a height of 17 meters, with a depth reaching up to 4.80 meters. The grave contained body remains of mixed character. There was a layer of bodies in wax-fat transformation with a thickness of about 1 meter in the bottom part; directly over it there was a layer of sand and lime. Above there were layers of crematory remains and charcoal. The volume of the grave was estimated at 920 meters.

Grave Pit No. 14

The vast grave basin of an irregular shape was located in the western part of the fenced camp area. The grave's dimensions were 37 meters by 10 meters. The average depth of the grave was about 5 meters. The grave contained crematory remains, and the drills revealed pieces of glass and plastic. The graves volume was over 1850 meters.

Grave Pit No. 15

Located in the north-western part of the camp. This grave on its surface had the second concrete ever-burning fire from the 1960's. The grave was in the shape of a rectangle, and the dimensions were about 13.50 meters by 6.50 meters and reached the depth of about 4.50 meters. The grave contained crematory remains. The estimated volume was about 400 meters.

Grave Pit No.16

Located in the north-western part of the camp, under the third existing concrete ever-burning fire. The grave was in the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 18.50 meters by 9.50 meters, with the depth of about 4 meters. In the bottom layers lime presence was found. The grave contained crematory ashes in layers with sand. The shallow drilling close to the grave confirmed the presence of burnt bones. The volume of the grave amounted to about 700 meters.

Grave Pit No. 17

Located east of grave No.16. The grave had the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 17 meters by 7.50 meters with a depth up to 4 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes. Burnt bones were also placed in layers with sand. A layer of rich lime was found in three drills at the depth of about 3 meters. The volume of the grave amounted to about 500 meters.

Grave Pit No.18

Located in the eastern part of the camp, to the east of the grave pit No. 15. The grave was in the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 16 meters by 9 meters with a depth of about 4 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes and charcoal. In the bottom part traces of lime were found. The volume of the grave amounted to about 570 meters.

Grave Pit No. 19

Located in the eastern part of the camp, directly under the first concrete fire. The ditch had the shape of a square with sides of about 12 meters. The depth of the grave was not more than 4 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes with a high density of human bones and charcoal. The volume of the grave amounted to about 500 meters.

Grave Pit No. 20

This grave was situated directly to the south of Grave Pit No.12 and its western part exceeded slightly the present enclosure of the camp. The grave had the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 26 meters by 11 meters, with a depth of 5 meters. The grave contained layers of crematory remains and charcoal. The farthest western drill contained not only body ashes, but pieces of musty paper and wood, a piece of a nail and brick rubble. The volume of the grave amounted to about 1150 meters.

Grave Pit No. 21

Located centrally in the camp. This was a relatively small grave 5 meters by 5 meters, with a depth of 1.70 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes which were reported at a depth of 70 cm. The volume of the grave amounted to about 35 meters.

Grave Pit No. 22

Located in the eastern part of the camp, under the eastern end of the alley, running in front of the concrete pylons symbolising the graves, erected during the 1960's. The grave had a shape close to a flattened triangle with the base of about 9 meters and the height of 15 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes and sand. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 200 meters.

Grave Pit No. 23

Located in the central part of the camp. The grave was in the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 16 meters by 8.50 meters, with a depth exceeding 4 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 550 meters.

Grave Pit No.24

Located in the southern part of the camp, just to the south of the fifth concrete ever-burning fire. The grave had the shape of a lengthened rectangle with the dimensions of 20 meters by 5.50 meters with the depth of about 5 meters. The grave contained irregular layers of crematory ashes and lime. The lowest layer of ashes with the thickness circa 60 cm was covered with about 40 cm thick layer of sand. Above that regular surface of body ashes and sand were reported. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to 520 meters.

Grave Pit No.25

Located in the southern part of the camp under the alley, between the fifth and the sixth ever-burning fire. The dimensions of the grave was about 12 meters by 5 meters, with a depth of about 4 meters. The bottom of the grave contained 40 -50 cm layer of bodies in wax-fat transformation covered with a layer of lime. Above that there was a layer with the thickness of about 60 -80 cm, covered with an 80 cm layer of sand. Over it was another intensive layer of burnt wood with a thickness of 80-100 cm covered with a surface bed of humus-like sand. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to 250 meters.

Grave Pit No.26

Located in the south central part of the camp, under the alley close to the sixth ever-burning fire. The grave had the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 13 meters by 7 meters with a depth of over 4 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes, with clear layers of ashes, charcoal and sand. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to 320 meters.

Grave Pit No. 27

Located in the central part of the camp, towards the west of grave pit No. 25. It was the shape of a lengthened rectangle with the dimensions of 18.50 meters by 6 meters with a depth of about 5 meters. The bottom part of the grave consisted of nearly 1 meter thick layer of bodies in wax-fat transformation, above it there was a 20-25 cm thick layer of lime - over 2 meter thick intensive layer of charcoal with small amounts of crematory ashes. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to 450 meters.

Grave Pit No.28

Located in the central part of the camp, towards the west of grave pit No. 27. Two clear layers of bodies in wax-fat transformation covered with lime were reported. Above them was found intensive structures of charcoal without body ashes. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to 70 meters.

Grave Pit No. 29

Located in the central part of the camp. It was the shape of an irregular rectangle with the dimensions of about 25 meters by 9 meters with a depth of about 4.50 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 900 meters.

Grave Pit No.30

Located in the central part of the camp. The dimensions of the grave was 5 meters by 6 meters. The crematory remains were noted only from the depth of 2.70 meters. Above that a high density of charcoal was found. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 75 meters.

Grave Pit No. 31

A relatively small grave located to the north from grave pit No. 30. The grave was probably in the shape of a rectangle with the dimensions of 9 meters by 4 meters, with a depth of 2.60 meters. The grave contained crematory ashes, mixed with sandy soil. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 90 meters

Grave Pit No.32

Located in the north western corner of the presently enclosed area of the camp. The grave was the shape of a lengthened rectangle with the dimensions of 15 meters by 5 meters, with the depth of over 4 meters. The grave contained bodies in wax-fat transformation, covered with lime at the depth of about 3.60 meters. Above that there was a mixed structure of crematory ashes with charcoal. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 400 meters.

Grave Pit No. 33

A relatively small grave located in the north-western corner of the presently existing borderline of the camp, which went beyond the fence. The grave had dimensions of 9 meters by 5 meters, with a depth of about 3 meters. The grave contained the remains of crematory ashes and charcoal. The estimated volume of the grave amounted to about 120 meters.

The total surface of the mass graves was estimated at 21,000 cubic meters. It was believed that at least a dozen graves still contain un-burnt, partially mummified or decomposing corpses. Exactly why the SS did not empty all the graves and destroy the traces of their crimes is not known.
 

potato in mah painus

deep fried faggitory
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Serious question why are holocaust deniers such seething bags of resentment

You literally can not say anything without them chimping out

Not sure why Hitler would waste so much time with all the memoranda writing and documented orders and conferences and shit just to not kill lots of Jews and Slavs in camps

What the fuck were Heydrich and Eichmann, high ranking SS men, doing wasting their time at Wannsee in the middle of a war? Why did the SS fill mountains of paper about sending Jews to camps to dispose of them when it could have been fighting the fucking war? Didn't Himmler have better shit to do? No wonder they lost the war lol
Can easily answer the first question, try to criticize anyone jewish in business, finance, or government. You will find "holocaust happened, your argument is invalid" was the blunt answer for a stupid amount of things. So the people that utterly despise them for this have no problem saying it didn't exist.

So you have folks on one side outright flat earth society style claiming it never happened, with the flipside saying the nazis killed 8,9,10 or more million and still counting 40 years later. So the people who want to know what really happened are caught in the middle with neither side willing to listen or acknowledge their findings.
 

draggs

I KNOW WHO YOU ARRRRRRRRRRRRE!! *BLOOD OCEAN*
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Can easily answer the first question, try to criticize anyone jewish in business, finance, or government. You will find "holocaust happened, your argument is invalid" was the blunt answer for a stupid amount of things. So the people that utterly despise them for this have no problem saying it didn't exist.

So you have folks on one side outright flat earth society style claiming it never happened, with the flipside saying the nazis killed 8,9,10 or more million and still counting 40 years later. So the people who want to know what really happened are caught in the middle with neither side willing to listen or acknowledge their findings.
I don't even get what's the big deal about "UNPOSSIBLE THEY KILLED 11 MILLION TOTAL" they killed and starved to death like 5 million Ukrainians and 10 million more Russians separate from the Holocaust over 3 years without using camps just good old rapine and pillage style. It's entirely possible to kill 10 million+ people in a few years if you grab the brass ring and really go for it and the Nazis did
 

potato in mah painus

deep fried faggitory
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
I don't even get what's the big deal about "UNPOSSIBLE THEY KILLED 11 MILLION TOTAL" they killed and starved to death like 5 million Ukrainians and 10 million more Russians separate from the Holocaust over 3 years without using camps just good old rapine and pillage style. It's entirely possible to kill 10 million+ people in a few years if you grab the brass ring and really go for it and the Nazis did
Its the constant goal post moving of the number killed that casts doubt in this case. 10-20k I can understand, but it seems like the numbers they actually killed is constantly ratcheted up by the millions. Coming from people that have been proven not to be trust worthy.
 

Lemmingwise

Amber Alert: I Heard a Turd
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
There are less witnesses and evidence to planes landing into the WTC
If there were multiple videos of it, or even say the museums weren't constantly caught lying, I might have put more stock in the idea of gas chambers.

IMG_20211022_101035.png

It's hard to take them serious after such things as david cole's documentary and seeing such shows as montell's where he and holocaust survivors were on.
 

Dagobert

Bulli supporter
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Going to throw my two cents into the autistic ring because why not. I think the Holocaust did happen, broadly as described in history textbooks. Now, there's a lot of shit I think is probably messed up for a vast assortment of reasons: political machinations, bad info, destruction of sources, etc but I do think there's enough evidence to say some deliberate attempt at genocide going on and it happened on a decently large scale.

That being said, even if it weren't happening at all, I don't think it's really necessary to make the Germans out to be the "bad guys" in WW2 and rhetoric around it has gotten absolutely toxic. Generalplan Ost is IMO a far more horrific concept than the Holocaust ever could be, as unimplemented as it was in real-life, and absolutely is far more important to the discussion of the aims of National Socialist Germany's plans than the Holocaust.
 

Lemmingwise

Amber Alert: I Heard a Turd
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Generalplan Ost is IMO a far more horrific concept than the Holocaust ever could be, as unimplemented as it was in real-life, and absolutely is far more important to the discussion of the aims of National Socialist Germany's plans than the Holocaust.
Do you find it comparable to the morgenthau plan or not?

You know, the plan where about 40% of german population would starve?
 

Dagobert

Bulli supporter
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Do you find it comparable to the morgenthau plan or not?

You know, the plan where about 40% of german population would starve?
It's certainly worse than the Morgenthau Plan considering that significantly higher numbers of people would have died under GPO than the MP, and the MP wasn't designed with the explicit extermination of Germans in mind. It's undeniably the closest thing to it the WAllies seriously considered though, but it falls far short of GPO over all. Especially when you consider that once the fact it would kill up to 25 million Germans became established the MP was abandoned, and it's limited form that did get implemented briefly (JCS 1067) was also abandoned when it became apparent it too would end in mass starvation.

I'm not going to pretend like the WAllies weren't capable of cold cruelty nor that the USSR was the second worst belligerent in Europe. But there's a pretty big difference between the WAllies and Germany (and even Germany and their allies in Italy, Hungary, and Romania) in intent alone during WW2, let alone actions.
 

Evo

yes, an actual nazi
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
May 29, 2020
It's certainly worse than the Morgenthau Plan considering that significantly higher numbers of people would have died under GPO than the MP, and the MP wasn't designed with the explicit extermination of Germans in mind. It's undeniably the closest thing to it the WAllies seriously considered though, but it falls far short of GPO over all. Especially when you consider that once the fact it would kill up to 25 million Germans became established the MP was abandoned, and it's limited form that did get implemented briefly (JCS 1067) was also abandoned when it became apparent it too would end in mass starvation.

I'm not going to pretend like the WAllies weren't capable of cold cruelty nor that the USSR was the second worst belligerent in Europe. But there's a pretty big difference between the WAllies and Germany (and even Germany and their allies in Italy, Hungary, and Romania) in intent alone during WW2, let alone actions.
Generalplan Ost isn't very dissimilar to how the United States itself was founded, and built but I overall agree on the intentions of GPO in implementation however there were four varying versions of it and policy widely varied in terms of how the OKW and other forms of the higher echelon of command in both Berlin and occupied territories such as Reichskommissariats; folk like Himmler did indeed lean towards a very radical form of colonization that would completely displace the Russian populace but most realized the numbers of the German populace were actually insufficient to populate Eastern Europe and Central Europe (particularly Eastern due to the vast range of countryside extending towards Siberia) so they ended up also including people like Latvians, Estonians, Slovaks, etc. into the colonization plan, integrating them into the Reich or the Reich's future territories - most moderate versions of the plan wanted to incorporate certain Russians due to Vlasov's Russian Liberation Army of voluntary conspirators and Nazi-aligned partisans/collaborators; one can absolutely agree the Polish, however, had it worse than anyone else throughout all versions of the plan.

Little reason for the Reich to have felt bad at the time when many of the nations that persecuted them for these policies had practiced these policies themselves or were still practicing these policies - or had built their entire countries off of the legacy of colonialism and displacement; as far as they were concerned, this was the default mode of frontier expansion in Western civilization and there was little reason to feel otherwise.