Pronoun use -

I would call them...

  • Whatever they wanted, big deal.

    Votes: 108 58.4%
  • By their biological sex

    Votes: 77 41.6%

  • Total voters
    185

Grisp

kiwifarms.net
Okay jackass, if I choose not to, and don't want to, then what? I should do so anyway? That's called coercion, you fucking clown. My point is that if I don't want to, then I shouldn't be compelled to, and when folks like you come along and go "oh well just do it anyway" that's trying to coerce me to speak the way you want me to. Fuck off with this shit.
Whoa, calm down there buddy, you seem awfully upset at someone pointing out how your argument is illogical.

"Okay jackass, if I choose not to, and don't want to, then what? I should do so anyway?"
If you choose to not do something then you have made your choice, you have chosen to not call them by their preferred pronouns and as such have made a final choice.
I'm not sure if you simply phrased your text wrong or if you are stupid. If you have made your choice then well, you have made your choice.

"and when folks like you come along and go "oh well just do it anyway""

Like I have explicitly stated before, I would never try to force someone to call someone else by their pronouns, I would simply not respect them. I will say though, that gender is not determined by what biological sexual organs you have and as such makes your decision to presume to know their gender better than the person themselves is emotional, ignorant and silly.

"but-but, muh feelings say that these are the pronouns I should use for you???"

What are your preferred pronouns @Grisp?
SJW/Snowflake or Triggered/Millenial

You're misinterpreting the idea behind the word. Respected as in, regarded as that which is external to yourself, or the opinions of others. You respect that they have the right to think as they will.
My bad then, English isn't my native language so I was unsure of which of the meanings you intended.
 
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ArnoldPalmer

kiwifarms.net
If you swapped genders and I respect you, I'll call you by what you transitioned to.
If you identify as a tertiary (not male/female) "gender", I'm going to call you an attention-whoring troon, and hopefully that'll be the last I ever see of you.

I approach the "gender spectrum" as I do Otherkin. It's one thing to be mentally ill and have gender dysphoria. It is another entirely to make an IRL fanfiction of yourself. Pixiewolf isn't a gender, and if you claim to have a nonbinary gender, then I will treat you precisely the same as anyone who claims to be a pixiewolf.

P.S. The mid-century John Money conceptualization of "gender" is fraudulent, unscientific, and only enables mental illness. There are only two sexes, and there are as many genders as there are sexes. You are all precisely the sum of your parts. Anything past that is ego fanfiction, embellishment, or an outright lie to yourself and others, and I don't respect dishonest behavior like that.
 
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Koby_Fish

The advice of the GALACTICALLY STUPID
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'll call them by whatever the prefer, but it's usually natural. The only people I'd have trouble with are the Tumblrinas because they focus too much on gender and it ends up being a wild card. Thankfully I haven't had to run into too many drama starters in real life, but internet world is a whole different platform.
Personally I'd be avoiding pronoun use entirely in front of a person who demanded a snowflake pronoun (i.e.: anything other than the he/she/they triad). I'm too old to remember every single ze xir zem bunself bullshit. Normal people don't talk that way.
 

soryu

Jerry Mouse
kiwifarms.net
Personally I'd be avoiding pronoun use entirely in front of a person who demanded a snowflake pronoun (i.e.: anything other than the he/she/they triad). I'm too old to remember every single ze xir zem bunself bullshit. Normal people don't talk that way.
Definitely. I think a lot of the ones who even demand it in the first place assume they're going to be around groups of people all the time and want to hear someone refer to them as the pronoun they prefer 3 feet away from them.
 

1864897514651

kiwifarms.net
[redacted]
Define the word 'friend'.

You also should understand that you are among a community of persons that see sex and gender as a unified binary concept. And as far as your responses concern me, let me propose this example.

Let us say that I have a friend by the name of Jane that I have known for 20 years. This person does not exist, but let us imagine. She is an above-average female, in that she dresses, speaks, acts, and comports herself in a way that a woman should. In fact, you may say that she is a very beautiful woman. She is a woman that has spent much time with me in a continent, platonic manner, and so I know her very well. However, it comes to my attention one day while at her home, that I happen to walk in on her undressing by accident, and I see that she has male genitalia. Further conversation with her disposes me to the fact that she is, in fact, genetically male, and that she has taken hormone replacement therapy since her early teens.

It would be my duty to start calling 'her' by pronouns naturally ordered to his God-given sex. Pronouns have no place in being kind. To be kind is to be witness to the truth. Now, Jane can reserve his name, certainly, because a name is used sparingly. When we reference people, pronouns are almost always used when the subject is understood, and so the true information about Jane's sex comes out through pronoun usage.

I would not call Jane by his natural pronouns in order to spite him. On the contrary, Jane is very welcome to remain my friend. I would assume that Jane is perhaps a very kind and tolerable person if I have been friends with him for 20 years. If Jane would end our friendship because of a change in pronoun usage, then perhaps Jane was never a friend to begin with.

Again, I want you to define the word 'friend'.
 

Grisp

kiwifarms.net
Define the word 'friend'.
I don't really have a definite definition for what a friend is, but it's someone that you have made a positive and trusting social connection with.

Let us say that I have a friend by the name of Jane that I have known for 20 years. This person does not exist, but let us imagine. She is an above-average female, in that she dresses, speaks, acts, and comports herself in a way that a woman should. In fact, you may say that she is a very beautiful woman.
You really have a creepy way of writing, is this part of your ongoing fanfiction of yourself and the girl you imagine one day will love you.

It would be my duty to start calling 'her' by pronouns naturally ordered to his God-given sex. Pronouns have no place in being kind. To be kind is to be witness to the truth.
For someone who requests definitions and clear answers on such arbitrary things you sure do use the word duty very freely. Why would it be your duty? And please leave out both god and these weird poetic 'truths' from this discussion.



When we reference people, pronouns are almost always used when the subject is understood, and so the true information about Jane's sex comes out through pronoun usage.
Your points are really hard to understand when you write this fucked up dude.

I would not call Jane by his natural pronouns in order to spite him. On the contrary, Jane is very welcome to remain my friend. I would assume that Jane is perhaps a very kind and tolerable person if I have been friends with him for 20 years. If Jane would end our friendship because of a change in pronoun usage, then perhaps Jane was never a friend to begin with.
You are treating this hypothetical situation as if there is no connection between the events.

"But but I only used the proper pronouns, there is nothing hostile nor wrong with that in itself!!"
We both know that trans people do not want to be known by a gender that they literally not are, we both know that trans people are often scared of their biological sex being known to most people. What you are doing when you are intentionally misgendering them is betraying your friends trust, the social contract between you two and the secret that you are now part in. You are also intentionally refusing and opposing a simple and harmless request from a friend. If you were to act with this rationale and logic applied to other social situations, the only friends you would have left would be the ones in your creepy fanfic.

I have to ask, are you actually autistic? Sincerely not meant as the common insult it has become, because if you are I can adjust my replies so that you might understand my point better.
 

Lysol

99.9% Bacteria and virus free.
kiwifarms.net
Whoa, calm down there buddy, you seem awfully upset at someone pointing out how your argument is illogical.
Yet to be proven.

"Okay jackass, if I choose not to, and don't want to, then what? I should do so anyway?"
If you choose to not do something then you have made your choice, you have chosen to not call them by their preferred pronouns and as such have made a final choice.
Yeah no shit, what I was saying is that you seem to be implying that I should do so anyway.
"and when folks like you come along and go "oh well just do it anyway""

Like I have explicitly stated before, I would never try to force someone to call someone else by their pronouns, I would simply not respect them. I will say though, that gender is not determined by what biological sexual organs you have and as such makes your decision to presume to know their gender better than the person themselves is emotional, ignorant and silly.
Wew lad, so you're one of those kind of people. You're starting to paint a picture here. As far as you not trying to force someone to call someone else by their pronouns, then what exactly are we discussing here, if you're such a live-and-let-live kinda person?
 
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Grisp

kiwifarms.net
Yeah no shit, what I was saying is that you seem to be implying that I should do so anyway.
Please try to make your point more clear next time, maybe it was because of my lacking English skills but it was hard to understand what your actual point was.

Did you interpret me as saying that people should accommodate to transpeoples preferred pronouns even if you do not agree with them for some reason?

Wew lad, so you're one of those kind of people. You're starting to paint a picture here.
Wew lad, might it be that your opinion on this subject is only an emotional circlejerk that you actually have little to no understanding of? I'd advice you to read a bit more on the subject before continuing this discussion.

As far as you not trying to force someone to call someone else by their pronouns, then what exactly are we discussing here, if you're such a live-and-let-live kinda person?
Whether or not you are morally obliged to do as such I guess, that is pretty much what the thread question says.
 

_01

01101001 01000001 01101101 00110000 00110001
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I use the preferred pronoun just for convenience. There's just an extra mental step for me when somebody uses a feminine name like "Susan" yet I'm still trying to refer to them as a male. It's not a point I'm trying to make, it's just because it takes less thought for me to do so.

I'm not a stickler for pronouns like most people (on both sides). It's not uncommon for my posts here involving discussions of transgender individuals to have the both of us just swap between the two pronouns. I just don't care, I just do whatever comes to my mind first. But it's mildly irritating when people who are sticklers for pronouns yell at me if I call a transgender woman male, and conversely when people who insist on calling a transgender woman male point out that I referred to them as female. However, the former will usually throw a giant tantrum while the latter will understand and the discussion moves on when I explain myself, hence why I just stick with the latter so the discussion doesn't devolve into a trainwreck.

Exhibit A:
Honestly, I love the reactionary response that lots of people have to transpeople. If you meet a person, ask for their name and get "Kevin" as a reply, are you going to ask for their ID to prove that Kevin is their actual name? If not, why would you want proof for their genitals before you decide whether or not you should use the pronouns that they prefer? Holy shit this forum has to be socially exceptional, I don't even want to imagine how you would act in real life.



Like look at this fucking disaster.



This seems like the only reasonable opinion you could have for not adjusting your pronoun use for a lifelong friend. Well said.



"Other than situations of obviously transgender people I will default to a person's visible sex."
On a surface level I understand this, but why does your conclusion of what gender the person is trump what they identify as?
 
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Null

Ooperator
kiwifarms.net
Honestly, I love the reactionary response that lots of people have to transpeople. If you meet a person, ask for their name and get "Kevin" as a reply, are you going to ask for their ID to prove that Kevin is their actual name? If not, why would you want proof for their genitals before you decide whether or not you should use the pronouns that they prefer? Holy shit this forum has to be socially exceptional, I don't even want to imagine how you would act in real life.
I believe in calling people whatever the fuck I want.
 

Grisp

kiwifarms.net
Biological sex because I don't have to deal with identity-obsessed yanks on a daily basis.


I would love to hear your opinion on wealth and private property.
I honestly don't have strong opinions on the subject since I am not well read on it, but in general.

Private property is incredibly important, economic systems need to allow for wealth to be attained, economic safety-nets should be a goal for every country, basic income sounds interesting in theory.
 
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