r/NeverBeGameOver--Bat-shit insane Metal Gear Solid conspiracy theorists

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Emiya Kiwitsugu

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Warning: I will attempt to avoid spoilers, at least for Metal Gear Solid 5, if possible. However, I cannot promise that there will not be spoilers related to 5 and earlier games in the series in this thread. View at your own discretion if you're worried about spoilers.

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain came out September 1st of last month. Directed by Hideo Kojima, and developed by his studio--Kojima Productions--the game not surprisingly garnered a lot of attention, both positive and negative. With a community as devoted as Metal Gear Solid, and Kojima's predisposition to ridiculous plot twists in his games, the overall plot and last minute twists resulted in a divided community. In particular, the people who felt let down and cheated by the ending. Most disappointed players blamed the fact that Kojima and his developers have been pushed out of their parent and publish company, Konami, and that this problem with the development is the source of their belief that the game came out imperfectly. And more importantly, a small subset of those people believe it wasn't this understandable problem with Kojima Production's parent company, but rather, the game was meant to end disappointingly: Because there's something more to it, either with hidden content that has to be unlocked somehow in game, or through participating in a huge alternate reality game(ARG) that they believe Kojima is running. They were routinely mocked for their conspiracy theorist like ideas they began throwing out, and elected to create a subreddit on reddit to congregate and spread their insanity--r/NeverBeGameOver.

Here at r/NeverBeGameOver, all of the most ridiculous and far fetched ideas are thrown out. With theories ranging from Ocelot being what seems to amount to an omnipotent force behind everything in the game's universe, to invisible dogs of war (:soap:). Along with a healthy dose of consistently pestering the studio's social media manager to reveal secrets that he wouldn't know anything about in the first place. But it's not because of retarded plot conspiracy theories that this thread exists. It's because of the bat-shit insane conspiracies about the production of the game itself, and the ARG that literally no one on the development team has so much as hinted as existing in the slightest, where this subreddit comes to shine. The following are among my favorite highlights I've seen in this tinfoil hat shitstorm.

One brief comment in the game mentions the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood in New York City. To the user's or r/NeverBeGameOver, this one comment that didn't really have any bearing on the plot, and was only mentioned in passing once, was clearly a clue in their ARG to find something Metal Gear related. This prompted multiple threads and at least one guy in the second one actually going around trespassing inside an AT&Tt building in Hell's Kitchen, taking pictures along the way. Sadly, it turns out Hideo Kojima wasn't there himself to congratulate him.

XOFengine said:
In the Truth tapes, Paz gives us the address of, and far too many details about the building that Zero is hiding in.
Mission 51 ends on a shot of New York City. Forget about the twin towers for a moment, and remember that it's just a skyline of NYC.
Someone living in or around NYC, please scout out this building. It's not unprecedented for an ARG to use physical locations.
And remember to bring your zoom-ins.

https://archive.md/VSsTG

jeffreyubi said:
Ironically enough, I drive through Hell's Kitchen almost everyday on my way back to work. If anyone can tell me the exact building, I'd be more than happen to go in to check it out. I'll also keep this thread updated with pictures I'll be taking on my phone when I go inside the building.

EDIT: I get off work in about an hour, post any more places you guys think I should go check out besides the AT&T one.

Update1: http://imgur.com/1ePiJ5A Have arrived at destination

Update2: http://imgur.com/5TqL29E This is as far as I could get without being seen by any of the staff. Could anyone tell me what the room number was supposed to be? Also, for some reason the name plates on the doors were scratched and looked torn but the number plates were fine.

Update3: http://imgur.com/0hjS4Ar 7th floor.
https://archive.md/Mwhgx

The photos from his adventure.
https://archive.md/SMfkH/e55c95d87caf2e8f57fb480406feef6d64fc0e2c.png

https://archive.md/7nvup/948c62a9742adf94631fbdee728e252786e7a870.png

https://archive.md/1RtmA/31bc20b99b17d932a1349d99a708031d76a124a1.png

Another great tale included people claiming that one of the subreddit's moderators, Nuclearsnake, was actually a Kojima Productions spy, sent to guide the ARG's community along the guide lines Kojima wanted, and turning on him as a result. Yes, they've legitimately descended to the point where they're seriously claiming others there are spies. It's autistic, and beautiful, but mostly autistic.
TadeusPadron said:
First of all, u/nuclearsnake, please do not delete this post. I'm not breaking any rule from the subreddit. I won't disrespect you in any way. If this is a coincidence, let's laugh together.

Secondly, thanks to u/VeeHasComeTo for submitting the post that gave me an epiphany. (It made a comparison between TPP and X-Files s05e11 'Kill Switch" where "Mulder wakes up of computer simulation in a hospital bed very similar to the one in the game. He has his left arm missing, and a nurse is interrogating him")

..........................

u/nuclearsnake, one of the most important users in our community and the OP of To unlock Chapter 3..., the thread which started all this madness, may be a Kojima Productions' spy.

His reddit account was created 9 months ago, but it remained inactive until two weeks ago, when he made a post titled "Chapter 3" linked to an image of the dying Skull Face saying the infamous "close to you" with the imgur title of "it's closer than you think". His next post was indeed "To unlock chapter 3...", which unleashed the creation of r/neverbegameover.

8 days a go, in a thread created by myself, where I stated that probably people at Kojipro, with or without ruse, are watching us, u/waterbearsinspace said that he suspected from Nuclearsnake, and that instead of posting his suspicions, he decided to talk to him directly (the content from the link continues next in this thread.)

u/waterbearsinspace Private messaged him this:

Hi! I'm just a random lurker and in fact, MGSV is the "first" game in the series I'm playing (a little bit of MGS4 but I didn't have much time and didn't really get into it), but I just wanted to share with you something I was going to post that might give you a laugh. It's just something I thought was odd, but I figured it was pretty dumb anyways and plus didn't want people to start questioning you or anything if that were to even happen haha. "I'm not sure where to post this but just something I was wondering about. Who exactly is NuclearSnake? I checked his profile and he's been a user for 9 months. However, he's posted nothing all that time until four days before the beginning(?) of this with his "To unlock Chapter 3..." post with this image. His username is also very specific to the game itself, "Nuclear" Snake being who we saw in the trailers if I'm not mistaken. I think he's (NuclearSnake) awesome for all of his work and the progress that's been made so far, but I just thought that was kind of odd. Is he another fan with an intense passion for the series or someone else from behind the scenes, guiding us toward KojiPro's true intentions? I'm probably just being silly haha, and I'm not asking for an explanation or anything, just something weird I thought about. I'm really intrigued about all of these theories though, and even if they don't turn out any actual results, it's crazy the kinds of things this community can come up with. Glad to be along for the ride!" Anyways, I love what you and everyone else have been working on so far, thanks for your hard work and for the time you took to read all this!

Nuclearsnake, answered solely with an image: "Trust no one"

I made a Google image search for the picture and it appears that the picture comes from "The X Files". Weird. Probably, he just was trolling, right?

Well, a new season of the show is coming soon , and a new trailer named "The truth is still out there" was released 5 days ago. (Nuclearsnake's photo response was 8 days ago.)

Now, Zoom-in, check this two frames from the trailer:
Nuclearsnake has been acting strange lately. Two days ago he made a weird thread named "Something is coming soon" which even surprised other moderators. He posted it at the same time as another strange thread. He never explained himself nor apologized in public. Here's an explanation of the situation.

It maybe seems as a long stretch, but is a huge coincidence nonetheless.

Nuclearsnake may be a "spy." I just gathered information.

Please, again u/nuclearsnake, do not delete this post.

PD: Reddit rounds the registration time, and Nuclearsnake has "9 months" registered. Maybe he was registered for 9 months and 11 days until his first post?
https://archive.md/uj3JF

Today's most recent insane theory is that MGS5...Isn't actually MGS5. According to the theory, the MGS5 that came out last month was actually a ruse to throw us off, made by a studio known as TOSE, which has done what amounts to the video game equivalent of ghost writing in the past. The real MGS5 will be announced and released later, with the fake MGS5 being a weird advertising campaign for the release of the actual MGS5 shortly later. Kojima just somehow managed to spend multiple years making the real MGS5, and managed to keep its entire existence entirely under wraps. He presumably cut off the development teams tongues and chained them all into the office for the entirety of the production to prevent any leaks. According to the theory, it would be a great way to boost advertisement and push sales for the actual game, instead of just pissing off the whole community for selling them what amounted to be the wrong game.

TadeusPadron said:
First of all, I'll clarify that I'm not claiming this. I just linked some dots and found something pretty interesting.

It started in Yuuji Horii Wikipedia page, creator of Portopia and Dragon Quest franchise. His career as game developer started in Enix, a company that merged with Square forming Square Enix. Today, he runs a studio named "Armor project", which has a exclusive production contract with Square Enix.

Looking through his games, I noticed that in most of them, a company named "TOSE" appears as developer. I proceeded to check TOSE in wikipedia, and It immediately caught my attention.

TOSE has developed or co-developed over 1,000 games since the company's inception in 1979, but is virtually never credited in the games themselves. "We're always behind the scenes," said Masa Agarida, Vice President of Tose's U.S. division. "Our policy is not to have a vision. Instead, we follow our customers' visions. Most of the time we refuse to put our name on the games, not even staff names." As such, Tose has gained a reputation for being a "ghost developer".

The company started making videogames on April 1984, has +1000 employees (2015), and it's based in Kyoto, Japan.

Some of the titles made by TOSE are merely believed or assumed to be developed by Tose, due to information compiled by journalists. Most have not been officially confirmed as Tose-developed products by any of the games' publishers, co-developers, or Tose themselves.

This polygon article: "The secret developers of the videogame industry" is really insightful, and I recommend you to read it.

Kyoto-based developer Tose may be the world’s largest producer of white label game work, and handles games of all sizes.

Koji Morosawa is the leader of Tose’s overseas marketing office, and day to day, his job involves spreading the word about the company to potential international clients, which he says is a challenge given the company’s approach.

"It’s very difficult to put ourselves out there, because people always want to know, ‘So what have you done? What’s your track record?’ And, you know, it makes it difficult," says Morosawa. "They want to see titles. They want to see lists. They want to see demos. But we’re contractually barred from doing so. ...

"What I try to do anyway is invite them back to Japan, to our head office. We have a games vault that has not all, but a lot of the titles that we’ve worked on. And I don’t know how much of this I can say. Well, we do this. We invite them to our Kyoto office, to our games vault. We kind of turn our backs; we let them see [what’s there]. They can’t take any pictures. We can’t talk about it. But they can kind of see what we’ve worked on. [It gives] them an idea of our history and the breadth."

Looking in the list of games developed by TOSE, two caught, again, my immediate attention. The first one, is practically the first game developed by the company. Its name? Pooyan. , published by Konami. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker featured a series of side ops that honoured this game, although Kojima has nothing to do with the game itself. Known as the "Pooyan Missions", they involve shooting Fulton recovery balloons carrying abducted soldiers off into the air. Sound effects and music from the arcade game are used throughout the mission.

The second game, is a spinoff. METAL GEAR: Ghost Babel

Unlike the console installments, Ghost Babel uses a stage-based structure, with a total of 13 stages and doesn't have a multiple playthrough option. After completing a stage, the player's performance is graded from "Terrible" to "Excellence." The player can replay previously completed stages in the Stage Select mode for a higher ranking.

A lot of people believe that MGGB is just a VR mission, for reasons (see the link), but this article negates it.

..............

Now, let's slow down a bit. This is a very important Kojima's tweet:
" Not MGS5, but MGSV. My thought in it. V has come to."

MGS V being MGS "Vee" instead of MGS 5, essentially points out the game as a spinoff, in opposite to the assumed fifth entry of the numbered storyline. (MGR:Revengance;MGSV:The phantom pain)

Definitely, MGS V is the most different game in the entire franchise. It left out some of the constants established in the MG games since 1987. Some of the oddities include:

*No "A Hideo Kojima game" label.

*Absence of life bar and low life sound, present in MGS 1, 2, 3, 4 and PW. (Although the sound is only present in TPP's prologue...)

*No destruction of the Metal Gear. MG1, 2, MGS 1, 2, 3, and PW.

*No final bosses interfering in your way: MG1, 2, MGS 1, 2, 3, 4 and PW.

*No "fist fight" / face-to-face at the end of the game: MG2, MGS1, 2, 3, and 4.

*No Harry Greggson-Williams score: MGS2, 3 and 4.

*No Johnny apparition: MGS1, 2, 3 and 4.

*No escape from torture/prison: MG1, MGS1, 2, 3 and PW.

*No difficulty level or endgame rewards: MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 and MGS4,.

*Ocelot isn't a triple spy: MGS1, 2, 3 and doesn't have a damn secret agenda: MGS4 and PO (Spoiler: the games included in this point are every Ocelot's apparition.)

And I could elaborate further, but I would prefer that if you thought of another oddly missing feature, post it in the comments.

.....

Here, we leave the facts road and deviate to the interpretation ground.

For reference, Kojimaproductions made MGS4 with 200 employees in 2008, and were based only in Japan. TOSE, from 2015 data, has over 1000 employees distributed between Shanghai and Kyoto offices.

Kojima included in TPP something that hadn't be done previously in the videogames industry: Putting credits after ending every mission. Why would he wanted to bomb the player with a bunch of names and Kojipro & Konami logo after every mission? My opinion, is that he did it to reinforce the idea that Kojipro made this game. Over and over, the Kojipro logo is shown. Such a lust for accreditation, right?

The following information comes from this Kojipro 2012 podcast

"The FOX engine will be compatible with next gen platforms, one of the primary goals when creating the engine was for it to be flexible and scalable to multiple platforms."

"Other people in Konami have been shown tech demos from FOX engine, but they can't say more on that."

"The most common feedback from Kojima Pro's staff and people in Konami on FOX engine was 'it's easy to use' and 'it's easy to create with'"

"Sean Eyestone says of the Fox engine: Almost 'drag and drop' easy for level design, recalculations are done on the fly, realtime collision detection, recalculates enemy routes."

Source

As we can see, apparently the FOX engine was produced specifically as a multigenerational engine and has an "almost "drag and drop" easy level design.

So, Kojima productions, you spent 5 years making the gameplay smooth? In the redband 2013 trailer we can already see most of the important cutscenes, including BB mounting the bike & Kaz and V pointing at SF, two of the climactic parts of the two main finales. We can assume the cinematics were pretty much finished at the time. They spent half of the developing cycle just solving bugs and programming side-ops? As Sean Eyestone said, the FOX engine level design is drag and drop easy, so, why so few mission/outpost variations and content?

I have my theory. "Snake, that's not Kojipro's developed game!"

Allegedly, TPP project codename was "Project oni", which translates to "Project ogre/demon". The whole MGSV marketing campaign told us that we would see Big Boss' descent to hell. But in reality, we saw the construction of a daycare and a Zoo, the pardon to the asshole whom took away 9 years from BB/V life and his army, the sacrifice of personnel infected with VCP that didn't have chances of survival and V playing in water.

I think "Project Demon" maybe isn't TPP. Maybe it hasn't been launched yet. Maybe it is MGS 5.

I think it is possible that TOSE, under Kojima's guidelines, made TPP as an alternate work to Kojipro's MGS 5. That would explain why the cutscenes/cinematics were ready so early in the development cycle. The Phantom studio would work the level design based on those cinematics, instead of the other way. The hard work, or the core of the game, would come from MGS 5 and its programming in the FOX engine, while the level design (missions and outposts) would come from TOSE.

TOSE is an independent company without affiliation and the enviable digit of 1000 employees. Working in a AAA game doing just level design and its programming don't escape their capacities.

I'll take two steps forward and theorize some things:

  • This would explain why Konami "removed" a Hideo Kojima game label.

  • The life sound in the prologue hints that the prologue was in fact made by Kojipro.

  • Kojima will actually leave Konami. MGS 5 will be his last game with the company.

  • This would explain why present "credits" after every mission.

  • The reason for possible doing this, would be profit. While Konami recovers the investment money with MGS V, MGS 5 would be pure profit. Automatic marketing boost would be outstanding.

  • MGS 5 would be launched in the near future.
PD: Happy info: Our best friend Peeler worked with Square Enix :)

Edit: In my theory, Konami only funded MGS 5 and FOX engine. TPP was created alternatively of 5, while using similar assets and same engine / gameplay core. TOSE would have received only the normal production fees. Kojima productions L.A would work as a bridge to both main studios.

Edit 2: Yes, the low life beep appears in TPP when you're critically damaged, but the beep sounds with intervals of 10 seconds. In the rest of the series, is a constant sound.

Edit 3: In case you haven't seen it - Kojima in 2010: If I mess up next project, I'll leave the industry
https://archive.md/LKzQ6

And to top it all of, there's a number of melodramatic threads such as this, where the original poster laments all the pain, suffering, and depression that the game's conclusion and the following search caused him/her. The pain becoming so much that the person had to take a break from all of the information and related media about it to cope with said pain. I would like to remind you, we are talking about a video game.
alipdf said:
I'm done, i really am done.

I can't take it anymore, it's not you, or this subreddit, or even the reaching crazy theories, it's the phantom pain.

I find myself replaying the game alot because somewhere deep inside i'm crying out "Where's the real game?".....i know alot of us here are satisfied and alot of us are just actually into theories, but i'm sure alot of you are like me.

I just wanted a good story driven game, another story to end the loop, to close the circuit, i just wanted to play as big boss, one last time, to have the climax reach outer heaven, to fight solid snake in a final fist fight, to end mgs for good this time.

Instead what did we get, an open world game with barely any story, no answers to any questions, playing as some double copy who has 1/8th of the charisma even raiden had!

Replaying through the MGS series has made me even more depressed, i played these games with my brothers when i was 7 years old, i grew up beating european extreme on mgs2 and beat mgs3 together with my best friend while sleeping over.

I don't want a secret ending, or chapter 4, i want what the trailers promised, i want a story driven game, i want to be snake..the real snake one last time.

I wish you all the best of luck in finding anything, but for me, i have to face reality, most likely there's nothing....and even if there was something, it wouldn't be enough to help with my phantom pain.
https://archive.md/C21K0

Having seen the abundance of MGS fans here on the Farms, I felt like some of you'd like to see this mess. There's plenty of other content in this, I just wanted to highlight these ones. In particular, the part with Hell's Kitchen, since the poster there outright admits that the place where he took the second photo was as far as he could get without 'staff seeing him.'
 

WireSponge

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From the subreddit rules: "No opinion posts."
Opinion posts. Conspiracy theories. Pick one.

Also, if I was a conspiracy theorist talking about unfounded speculation and Konami, then I would theorize that Metal Gear is dead. In the Konami game world, Pachinco machines=franchise death.
 

c-no

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Having seen the abundance of MGS fans here on the Farms, I felt like some of you'd like to see this mess. There's plenty of other content in this, I just wanted to highlight these ones. In particular, the part with Hell's Kitchen, since the poster there outright admits that the place where he took the second photo was as far as he could get without 'staff seeing him.'
Looking at these, these guys are really just throwing out something that Kojima can only laugh at. Really, I'm surprised that with Hell's Kitchen, they didn't try to make some link with Deus Ex, especially since the VA of Drebin voiced a character named Smuggler, an arms dealer who also happens to be an African-American male within Hell's Kitchen. Either way, just lol at people getting this obssesed over something related to a video game. They may as well try and sneak into Konami if they think the company is hiding some true version of MGSV.
 

Emiya Kiwitsugu

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Looking at these, these guys are really just throwing out something that Kojima can only laugh at. Really, I'm surprised that with Hell's Kitchen, they didn't try to make some link with Deus Ex, especially since the VA of Drebin voiced a character named Smuggler, an arms dealer who also happens to be an African-American male within Hell's Kitchen. Either way, just lol at people getting this obssesed over something related to a video game. They may as well try and sneak into Konami if they think the company is hiding some true version of MGSV.
I think the fact they didn't bring up the Drebin/Smuggler coincidence is more to due with the fact none of them remembered it (I had forgotten it myself until you brought it up). Give them time and his poor voice actor will be peppered in random questions.
 

c-no

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I think the fact they didn't bring up the Drebin/Smuggler coincidence is more to due with the fact none of them remembered it (I had forgotten it myself until you brought it up). Give them time and his poor voice actor will be peppered in random questions.
They'd be asking the VA questions like "Is Kojima saying he's gonna make a Deus Ex game" and "Is Big Boss actually the genetic base for the Denton's". That is if any of them manage to think there is some link with MGS and Deus Ex besides just being stealth games that had an entry that shared the same VA for an important character.
 

John Titor

Pronouns: time/temporal/tempself
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I knew conspiracy theories were a thing at /vg/ like this one about some site called ingsoc.org which turned out to be an unrelated viral ad to some indie game but this just takes the fucking cake for the trespassing.
 

Emiya Kiwitsugu

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There was footage that came with the collector's edition of the game that covered a cancelled 51st mission. Based on nothing other than the fact it would've been 51, people are now theorizing that somehow Area 51 plays into
Ottercry said:
This thought came to me when thinking about Mission 51. Just thought I'd look into Area 51.

Conspiracy Theories that tie into MGSV.

The development of weather control.

The development of time travel and teleportation technology. (Wormhole Fulton)

Edit: "...a disappearing airstrip (nicknamed the "Cheshire Airstrip", after Lewis Carroll's Cheshire cat) which briefly appears when water is sprayed onto its camouflaged asphalt."

"...Publicly available satellite imagery, however, reveals clearly visible landing strips at Groom Dry Lake, but not at Papoose Lake."

Edit: It's too late for me to try these few things, I need to go to bed for work tomorrow, but perhaps spraying around where this 'invisible container' is might reveal something? Also on the R&D Platform where the yellow dot shows up. Try spraying the Pod? idk. I will try these tomorrow if nobody gets in on it first. :)

It's most likely definitely nothing, but something to dig around in.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51

"There are no facts only interpretations."
https://archive.md/mQU3H


Given they already illegally trespassed in that AT&T building in Hell's Kitchen, how long do we have until someone tries to break into Area 51? Also, the Deus Ex connections continue to go further and further.
 

c-no

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There was footage that came with the collector's edition of the game that covered a cancelled 51st mission. Based on nothing other than the fact it would've been 51, people are now theorizing that somehow Area 51 plays into

https://archive.md/mQU3H


Given they already illegally trespassed in that AT&T building in Hell's Kitchen, how long do we have until someone tries to break into Area 51? Also, the Deus Ex connections continue to go further and further.
IIRC, Area 51 was a location mentioned in MGS4 where Raiden rescued Sunny. It's also the final location in the first Deus Ex game. Deus Ex connections are going further and will actually lead to nowhere. To these people, they'll probably think Sunny and Gray aliens will be some clue from Kojima or something.
 

c-no

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Have they mentioned D-Horse pooping on command? Horse shit at the press of a button must be a clue from Kojima.

As fans, we need to investigate.
My findings in horses pooping on command must mean Kojima is going to be some kind of farmer related horses and/or pooping. That or more accurately, it's all just autism.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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It's pretty funny to think that a series all about crazy' contrived conspiracies would, in the end, become the subject of a number of crazy contrived conspiracies itself.

Honestly, with how Kojima has wanted to move on from the series for a pretty long time and how he actually received death threats for it I wouldn't be surprised if, for his last entry, he went out of his way to piss of some of the more rabid fans. I wouldn't blame him, to be honest.

Also, that's one ugly building. Is that what the architecture in Hells Kitchen is like? Looks like it's from some post soviet Eastern European country.
 

BadaBadaBoom

This is The End, beautiful friend.
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I'll give a shit if the ARG manages to uncover a playable version of a completed Silent Hills. Until then, sperg on you dumb bastards, sperg on.
 
D

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Jesus Christ this is terrifying.

I haven't played through V myself yet, can somebody explain Portopia? It seems to be their strongest lead.