r/polyamory -

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Wallace

Cram it in me, baby!
kiwifarms.net
These folks have boundaries that are fluid. So perhaps they are habituated to confusing friendship and sexual attraction. Or little in common with somebody whose crotch is off limits.
That and they want the benefits of a relationship, both sexual and non, without having to put in the effort of maintaining the relationship or giving a fuck about their partners. This necessitates having multiple people you can hit up for sex when it's convenient for you.
 

Beluga

Just a little white whale on the go
kiwifarms.net
I know this isn't Reddit but whatever. It's another gem from The Guardian: "There’s zero evidence that it’s worse for children': parenting in a polyamorous relationship". Apparently it's an extract from a book by Lucy Fry. Archive here.

We’ve decided to allow other partners into our lives. There is just one problem: how to square that with having a family

Almost three years ago, my partner and I decided to experiment with opening up our relationship. More recently, we’ve “come out” as polyamorous, meaning we are free to be involved with more than one person at a time, physically and/or emotionally, in a transparent, consensual way.

In practice, this means that I currently have a wife, who I live with, along with our two-year-old son. I also have a girlfriend, who lives elsewhere and has a daughter. I love both my wife and my girlfriend deeply, in different ways. My wife has a new male love interest, also living elsewhere, also with children.

It is a little complex, but it needn’t be horrifying. Yet when I tell people about the recent change to our 11-year relationship, I’m usually met with fear and confusion. That’s understandable, perhaps; open non-monogamy remains a relatively uncommon choice and comes with its fair share of upsets and hurt feelings. At times I, too, have felt some fear and confusion. But it’s hard being judged by others for making a considered adult choice.


The biggest anxiety our situation raises, it seems, is that we’re parents. The overwhelming suspicion seems to be that our child will either be exposed to a dangerous level of eroticism, or somehow miss out on attention, stability and love.

It is remarkably similar to some of the hysteria conjured by religious and political zealots around same-sex parenting back in the 1980s. Still, I’m sympathetic. Having entered the brave new world of conscious non-monogamy only in the past few years, I, too, am unravelling decades of social conditioning that suggest open relationships are OK-ish (a bit bohemian; juvenile even), provided there aren’t children involved. Children need consistency, right? But does consistency have to mean monogamy?

“There’s no reason to believe that monogamy is any better [or worse] than other family structures – of which poly families are just one,” says British psychotherapist, academic and author of The Psychology Of Sex, Dr Meg-John Barker. “Structures with more adults involved, and more community support around them, may well work better for many people. Of course, conscious non-monogamy isn’t necessarily any better than other models: there are problematic parenting behaviours across all relationship styles. But there’s certainly zero evidence that it is worse as a basis for childrearing than monogamy.”

In many ways, polyamorous couples face the same challenges or rewards as blended families where divorced parents remarry. Mancub, 16, is the child of polyamorous parents living in Northamptonshire, whom he quite simply calls “my adults”: Cassie (his mum), Josh (his dad) and Amanda (their partner). “Even at a young age, I was able to grasp the concept that my mum and dad could love more than one person,” he says. “The only thing I’ve found challenging about having three adults in my family is getting away with things, because it means more people to check up on you, to make sure you did your chores. But I also have more people around to give me lifts here and there, to help with homework and to come to my lacrosse games. The saying ‘raised by a village’ definitely applies to me. I feel like a completely normal teenager, just with polyamorous parents.”

This kind of positive response is not uncommon. Researcher and relationship coach Dr Eli Sheff is author of The Polyamorists Next Door: Inside Multiple-Partner Relationships And Families, which details 15 years of studying polyamorous families. This includes interviews with 206 people in polyamorous families in the US, 37 of them children.

“Looking at these kids overall, I would say that they are equally – if not more – emotionally healthy than their peers,” Sheff says. “The kids from poly families are pros at establishing new relationships. They’ve been growing up marinated in personal growth and honesty, and exposed to a wide range of ideas. They don’t necessarily think they’ll be polyamorous themselves, particularly since most grow up in an environment designed to foster independent thought.”

Though my wife and I have no plans to live with any other partner, we will continue to be cautious about how and when we introduce our son to significant others. In my view, he has certainly benefited from the presence of my girlfriend: the pair have a touchingly close relationship; she was the first person ever to babysit him (when my wife and I went out for a date); and as a trained actress and born storyteller, she’s definitely his favourite when it comes to bedtime stories.

I’m acutely aware that our son will soon know himself to be different from the norm, since he has two mothers (and a donor, whom our son hasn’t met, though my wife and I maintain contact because we like him, and in case our son wishes to contact him when he is older). I have worried at times: will he feel vulnerable because his parents have veered away from the traditional paradigm?

At the moment, it isn’t a pressing concern; the things that matter most to him right now are ice-cream, trains, and refusing to wear pyjamas. As he grows, however, it will become important to answer his questions in an age-appropriate way. “This can mean using terms like ‘special friend’ or ‘sleepover’, but doesn’t mean avoiding the truth,” says Dr Lori Beth Bisbey, a London-based psychologist and practising polyamorist. “If your child asks why he has two mums, you’d answer that question directly, so don’t be any different about your relationship status. For those adults in your life who are freaking out about your choices, you can ask them whether they think that it’s possible to love more than one child, and explain how loving more than one partner is much like that.”

What happens if there’s a breakup? One frequent criticism of blended families is that children lose important people from their lives when relationships atrophy. “At least half of all marriages end in divorce, and when questioned, a minimum of 30% of people admit to infidelity, though the number can rise to 75% depending on how the question is asked,” argues Sheff. “At least in poly families people can talk about it. Kids don’t feel they have this awful secret if they know their parent is with someone else. That is what is corrosive to wellbeing and mental health.”

Secrets and lies – these are things that ought, ideally, to be eradicated in poly relationships, although in practice humans are still, well, human. Having been traditionally unfaithful and openly polyamorous, I know that my self-respect and inner contentment are far higher in the latter scenario. In consciously open relationships, the idea of infidelity is less clear cut, and becomes an agreement between two (or more) people. “Cheating” can still happen, when trust is broken: going on a date without telling the other partner, for instance, or lying about one’s intensifying feelings towards another partner. On the whole, however, there is much less dishonesty or evasion than in more monogamous setups, which arguably results in fewer acrimonious breakups.


We won’t know the impact of our choices until our son can articulate it. When the time comes, I intend to listen, allowing him to express his ideas or complaints. I hope to take great care of any part of our bond that might have been overstretched somehow by my mistakes or actions, though I have zero intention of foisting details of my sex life on him. What I might say, instead, is that I don’t believe in sublimating all my own needs merely because I’ve become a parent. I think that doing so can lead to greater problems, and I want to show him that it is possible to get most of one’s own needs met openly and responsibly, while also loving someone else – including one’s child.

Once he is old enough to understand, I’ll also tell him this: my relationship with his mother has strengthened since we allowed each other to be attracted to, or fall in love with, other people. That’s not to say it has been easy (hell no: the opposite). But ultimately it has been worth it, because the freer we are to look elsewhere, the freer we are to choose each other. My wife and I are more honest and less co-dependent than we have ever been in our 11 years together. I believe our son is more likely to grow up with two parents who love one another, and are committed to one another. Which is surely what matters most.
I don't even know where to begin with this one.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
I know this isn't Reddit but whatever. It's another gem from The Guardian: "There’s zero evidence that it’s worse for children': parenting in a polyamorous relationship". Apparently it's an extract from a book by Lucy Fry. Archive here.
I don't even know where to begin with this one.
Begin with the failed human being, who posted this ass-splatter in the first place.

Whenever I read about stuff like that, I'm grateful I grew up with parents who were loyal to each other and weren't spineless faggots.
Or in some cases, managed to keep up appearances, "for the sake of the children ..."

(Insidious cliche, but appropriate in instances like this.)
 
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Lucifer's Rectum

Rapidly deteriorating mental state
kiwifarms.net
Apologies in advance since this isn't necessarily a poly-specific question, but if a couple opens their relationship, and the relationship then falls the fuck apart, who's fault is it? The guy, the girl, or the girl's boyfriend? Personally I think that if you're going to get involved with degeneracy then you should do so expecting things to blow up in your face but I'm still curious about what you all think.
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
Apologies in advance since this isn't necessarily a poly-specific question, but if a couple opens their relationship, and the relationship then falls the fuck apart, who's fault is it? The guy, the girl, or the girl's boyfriend? Personally I think that if you're going to get involved with degeneracy then you should do so expecting things to blow up in your face but I'm still curious about what you all think.
It's the fault of whoever suggested opening up the relationship in the first place.
To a lesser extent, it's also the fault of the second party, who agreed to it (however reluctantly).
 

raritycat

kiwifarms.net
Apologies in advance since this isn't necessarily a poly-specific question, but if a couple opens their relationship, and the relationship then falls the fuck apart, who's fault is it? The guy, the girl, or the girl's boyfriend? Personally I think that if you're going to get involved with degeneracy then you should do so expecting things to blow up in your face but I'm still curious about what you all think.
Personally, I fault the initial couple (Persons A [the one who wanted to open the relationship] & B [the one who agreed to open the relationship]). Person C is irrelevant and is really just a stand-in that could be swapped out for any old schmuck.

Person A is at fault because they refused to be an adult and communicate why exactly Person B wasn't enough or what they liked about Person C that Person B was lacking. From what I've seen in real life, these types usually lack the ability to be introspective and understand what is triggering their feelings and thus be able to communicate to their partner what is wrong. If they do understand their feelings, they fear that expressing them makes them the bad guy or "abusive" for speaking the truth.

Person B is at fault because they refused to be an adult and set their boundaries by saying no, but also for not asking why Person A wants an open relationship. If you're in a relationship, sometimes you have to ask probing questions to your partner to get to the bottom of things when you want to solve problems between the two of you. Sometimes this means having to hear some hard home truths about how your behaviour impacts your partner's ability to find you sexually attractive and therefore able to consent to you. Sometimes these reasons aren't things that can be fixed and you need to do the adult thing and end the relationship.
 
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Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
Apologies in advance since this isn't necessarily a poly-specific question, but if a couple opens their relationship, and the relationship then falls the fuck apart, who's fault is it? The guy, the girl, or the girl's boyfriend? Personally I think that if you're going to get involved with degeneracy then you should do so expecting things to blow up in your face but I'm still curious about what you all think.
Well, if x happens then it is her fault but only if he didn't previously trigger her anxiety with -SNIP-

Nobody's, if you live in a no fault divorce state. In California, they figured it out by 1970.

NOBODY WANTS TO FUCKING HEAR ABOUT IT.

Other states liberated themselves from this pointless shit, in the decade that followed.

If they aren't married and no kids involved, any sane party involved cuts their losses, grieves and moves on.

ADDED: your question was legitimate. My only point is/was, that arbitrating these types of very private and complicated disputes, is/was such a judicial minefield, that most jurisdictions in the states washed their hands of the job.
 
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Cosmos

Soldier of Love and Bitching on the Internet
Supervisor
True & Honest Fan
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MediocreMilt

It hurt itself in its confusion!
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View attachment 1130935


Polyamory is a bad idea in general, but why the fuck would you date and fall in love with someone who is married to a monogamous partner? Of course they're going to eventually grow a spine and say "Actually, I don't want you dating my wife anymore."
So I'm guessing a "veto" means "no you can't have THAT partner." Meanwhile, the husband in the situation probably has no idea what the fuck that is and just wanted a normal life with his wife not being a skank. Honestly, without knowing anything else, I can already tell you that the couple this guy is trying to insinuate himself into is headed to Couple's Counseling followed by divorce. And don't you ever forget: Having boundaries in a relationship that fucking everybody agrees are appropriate is "insecurity".

IMPEACH.png
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
View attachment 1130935





Polyamory is a bad idea in general, but why the fuck would you date and fall in love with someone who is married to a monogamous partner? Of course they're going to eventually grow a spine and say "Actually, I don't want you dating my wife anymore."
Lack of understanding of social norms. Autism Spectrum Disorder is an organic explanation.

Personality Disorder? Maladaptive behavior stemming from early childhood environment. Bad role-models.

"Don Draper's Dick" and "Bacon Street" would have benefited from adult role models, who would have walked him through social mazes, and appropriate interaction with peers.

A huge part of parenting and early childhood education curriculums, is simply walking small children through social minefields. "No Billy(6), you and Susan have to wear clothing when Tatiana brings her over ..." "No Billy, you and Jamie can't hold hands during gym" .... this is where parents spend a lot of time. Although some people seem to thrive in the role, most people end up there because they see that their kids are taking a left turn.

As the kids get older conversations start about stuff like how various types of human relationships work, and coaching them about damage control, when they don't. Like I said, some folks kind of overdo it with "Guiding" aka "overparenting" but normal people address this stuff by instinct, and do what they can, to get the crazy out of the house.

Parents are also supposed to teach children boundaries and emotional regulation. For example if the kid falls for some girl at school with a boyfriend, it is not ok to smash a bunch of plates, or ask her out when he isn't looking. ....

Also, emotional regulation issues (you cant fall head over heals for every girl you meet) and boundaries are a constant theme. Some kids catch on faster than others. And safety and common sense "you sleep with someone's wife, your head can end up on our doorstep."

Basic shit, really.
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
So I'm guessing a "veto" means "no you can't have THAT partner." Meanwhile, the husband in the situation probably has no idea what the fuck that is and just wanted a normal life with his wife not being a skank. Honestly, without knowing anything else, I can already tell you that the couple this guy is trying to insinuate himself into is headed to Couple's Counseling followed by divorce. And don't you ever forget: Having boundaries in a relationship that fucking everybody agrees are appropriate is "insecurity".

View attachment 1130943
Vetoes (and all rules) are super subjective in the poly community. It usually means that the partner not involved with the "extra" relationship has control over it in some capacity.

It can mean
- You can't do anything with x person
- You can't do anything on x date (the time date)
- You can do x, but not y (as in you can date, but not fuck other people)
- You can only do x with my permission

It's a problem that (like all problems in the poly community) gets 100% glossed over - all the different poly practitioners don't have the same rules and none of them can agree on it.
 

Tanner Glass

kiwifarms.net
Where do these mongoloids get time for all of these relationships? I barely have time for just one partner, I can't imagine having 3 or 4.
You can do it very easily if you blatantly disregard your other partners wants and needs and treat them all as commodities. All a poly relationship is worth is what can it do for you right now - it's a core tenet of polyamory.

For example - in a normal, healthy, sane relationship - You want to have sex but your partner is feeling really sick. You calm down your boner and take care of your partner (soup, water, blankets, whatever) and maybe sit in bed with them all day watching movies or something.

In a poly relationship - You want to have sex but your "live in/main partner" is feeling really sick. You leave them to their own devices "good luck" and go make fun plans with your #2 girl and get the sex you wanted. Your "live in/main partner" is not allowed to be hurt or jealous because all you are doing is "meeting your own needs".
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
Apologies in advance since this isn't necessarily a poly-specific question, but if a couple opens their relationship, and the relationship then falls the fuck apart, who's fault is it? The guy, the girl, or the girl's boyfriend? Personally I think that if you're going to get involved with degeneracy then you should do so expecting things to blow up in your face but I'm still curious about what you all think.
Everyone who came up with the idea or cucked to it or otherwise consented to it.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
Where do these mongoloids get time for all of these relationships? I barely have time for just one partner, I can't imagine having 3 or 4.
My point exactly (back a few pages, don't even bother.)

Precisely why in the vast majority of human societies, monogamy is the norm. Even if the law allows a man to have more then one wife, only a minority practice polygamy.

In some Middle Eastern countries, for example, plural marriage is legal and codified, but it is not universally practiced because it is expensive (you need to be able to provide financial, medical and logistical support to all of your wives and all of your offspring) and it is probably kind of a pain in the butt. Mainstream Mormonism got rid of polygamy years ago. In Islam lesbo action between the wives doesn't officially happen, and when the husband dies, the marriage dissolves.

The only way any of this is sustainable, is in times of war, or post war, where there is a shortage of marriagable young men, and surviving male householders take on the *responsibility* of extra wives.

You can do it very easily if you blatantly disregard your other partners wants and needs and treat them all as commodities. All a poly relationship is worth is what can it do for you right now - it's a core tenet of polyamory.

For example - in a normal, healthy, sane relationship - You want to have sex but your partner is feeling really sick. You calm down your boner and take care of your partner (soup, water, blankets, whatever) and maybe sit in bed with them all day watching movies or something.

In a poly relationship - You want to have sex but your "live in/main partner" is feeling really sick. You leave them to their own devices "good luck" and go make fun plans with your #2 girl and get the sex you wanted. Your "live in/main partner" is not allowed to be hurt or jealous because all you are doing is "meeting your own needs".
Male perspective. Very sweet. Love the candor.

Cultivate the qualities of your ideal partner in yourself, and you will bypass this drama because you will attract a person who seeks these same qualities.

And somehow, you will come home to a happy home, and your career path won't look like a Miró painting.
 
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Crunchy Leaf

cronch
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Mainstream Mormonism got rid of polygamy because the US government told them they had to or Utah wouldn't be allowed statehood. The court said that while Congress can't regulate religious opinion, it's fine for them to regulate religious action that's 'in violation of social duties or subversive of good order.' And letting Mormons be polygamous because of their religion is a slippery slope to allowing human sacrifice. (See Reynolds v. United States).

If the US government hadn't done this, Mormonism would not have survived today to be a large religion of people whose lives are not substantially different from more conventional conservative Protestants. A society where all men have multiple wives is disastrous, and you can see why in FLDS groups. The older men have 10 or 12 wives and they cast out the boys so they aren't competition.

The difference between traditional polygamy and polyamory is traditional polygamy is one man and a bunch of women, as opposed to polyamory, where one man dates two women who are each dating another guy who is dating another girl and so on, which if anything leads to even more drama.
 

Non-Expert!

Feel free to misgender me.
kiwifarms.net
Mainstream Mormonism got rid of polygamy because the US government told them they had to or Utah wouldn't be allowed statehood. The court said that while Congress can't regulate religious opinion, it's fine for them to regulate religious action that's 'in violation of social duties or subversive of good order.' And letting Mormons be polygamous because of their religion is a slippery slope to allowing human sacrifice. (See Reynolds v. United States).

If the US government hadn't done this, Mormonism would not have survived today to be a large religion of people whose lives are not substantially different from more conventional conservative Protestants. A society where all men have multiple wives is disastrous, and you can see why in FLDS groups. The older men have 10 or 12 wives and they cast out the boys so they aren't competition.

The difference between traditional polygamy and polyamory is traditional polygamy is one man and a bunch of women, as opposed to polyamory, where one man dates two women who are each dating another guy who is dating another girl and so on, which if anything leads to even more drama.
Ok, now I'm hooked.

What's the human sacrifice dimension to polygamy?

As for polyamory, I can see that human sacrifice "aka murder" could be a realistic outcome.
 
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Crunchy Leaf

cronch
kiwifarms.net
The court also said ‘Professor Lieber says, polygamy leads to the patriarchal principle, and which, when applied to large communities, fetters the people in stationary despotism, while that principle cannot long exist in connection with monogamy.’ which I think is interesting in the context of this thread.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a religious freedom bill for Virginia before the Consitution existed and he included an exception for when the principles of the religion are against peace and good order, which the court mentioned in their decision—it shows the spirit intended by 18th century proponents of religious freedom.