I wasn't suggesting gentrification is a problem nor that gentrification is proof that living amongst black people is the exclusive goal of multicultural whites. In my opinion 'gentrification' of black or white people is just an irrational reaction to natural market forces. People move into attractive areas and the prices go up. It's just a result of scarcity and value, not evil. I was just trying to point out that plenty of people find it acceptable for other races to immigrate (and also) find it acceptable to live amongst other races personally. You seem to have shifted away from your original point that white people don't want to live near black people, because they are black. In your original post you said:@Shield Breaker I completely agree with about 95% of your statement above, particularly the part about IQ and nurture over nature.
On the neighbors thing, true, immigrants from Africa are a completely different animal than American blacks, but I personally wouldn't single out Pollacks in mobile homes, in the majority of instances I'd choose not to live near any race in mobile homes. It has nothing to do with their ethnic background/race and everything to do with their lifestyle and class. There are trailer parks entirely made up of the same group: blacks, latinos, Asians, and Whites and I wouldn't want to live around any of them if given the choice.
It all goes back to class, which is a much better identifier of a person's attitude and outlook than race. That's not to say wealth makes you a nicer person, however in my experience you're much more likely to have issues with them than most middle class and above neighbors who mind their own business. For instance, no matter the race, if you live in a poor area you're gonna see a lot more alcoholism, drug abuse, fighting, unwed mothers, rotten and violent children and teens, etc. They're gonna be much more miserable to live around than even lower middle class families IMO.
True, but even the ones who are like us typically have relatives and friends who are "into" that whole ghetto culture thing. So it's not like they aren't familiar, they just don't base their entire lives around it. Another thing, they can be really good neighbors but on the whole they don't like us nor do they want to have any more to do with us than absolutely necessary. They will smile in your face and the minute you walk away they'll trash you for the silliest things for no good reason because many of them are just like that. They have this attitude where they think you'd be the same way towards them even if you're not that type of person. They think we're all stuck up even if they have just about as much wealth as we do, simply because we're white. To them, we're no different than rich people who look down and shit on everybody, including their own people, for not being as well-off as them. That's something I've always noticed, we're stuck up and think we're better even when we're not, even when that's the farthest thing from the way you actually carry yourself.
For sure, definitely agree with that. But, there are still differences culturally in the way we all act. Even if they're middle class, somewhat educated, and overall pretty decent people, I've noticed that black people on the whole are a lot more paranoid and superstitious than white people. And I'm not talking about reasonable paranoia that comes from an honest, reasonable place, I'm talking about silly stuff. They'll believe these completely insane, urban legend type stories and spread them around as if they were true and happened to someone they know personally. I've witnessed this in regular people, not ghetto or poor ones with no education. One thing in particular I remember that was a big deal in that community at one point, was that a popular fashion designer who made clothes that a lot of them really liked at the time. All of a sudden, people were saying that this guy was a racist and he didn't want blacks wearing his clothes. This was a huge story at one point in time. I remember asking a black broad what the designer did that was racist and she naturally brought up the interview where he announced that blacks shouldn't buy his clothing. Of course, she didn't actually see this interview, but she heard about it from numerous trusted sources that in the interview this guy said that he didn't like seeing blacks wearing his designer clothes. I kinda convinced her that was stupid, that nobody in the business of selling a product is going to say something ultra controversial about his main customer base, and she reluctantly agreed. But then she said some nonsense about "look at the tv commercials, they always have black people doing something ignorant in them".
I swear to God, I don't think this particular clothes designer even ran television advertisements.
That's all I'm trying to say. They're not stupid people, or bad people, but they do think differently. And for the most part, they aren't ever going to think very highly of us. They're not going to "have our backs" in the way you'd want a neighbor to have your back and look out for your shared community's best interests. That's why I say I'd rather live around people who look like me. I feel like on the whole, they're going to relate to me and sympathize in a way that someone different never would.
No, probably not. As long as it was just one wealthy black family moving in. I think they might get some type of weird satisfaction out of that actually, they could brag to their cosmopolitan friends about their progressive, rainbow coalition community where rich people live in complete harmony, blacks included. Rich Asians and Indians are old hat at this point, and probably wouldn't impress that circle.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the argument of "gentrification" and I don't really agree with it. The demographics of cities change over time, and while I loathe hipsters as much as the next person and would cherish having another reason to dislike them, I don't hate them for wanting to live in "hip" urban areas in various cities. They don't mind living among some of the old black residents of these neighborhoods, but that isn't the draw for them. They like these areas because they are in the middle of a crowded city, where they have access to public transportation, historical restaurants, bar rooms, night clubs, art galleries, etc. All the nice advantages and benefits of living in the big city. I sympathize with the older residents who suddenly have high taxes, but this is solely the fault of the actual city government, not the hipsters who move there.
The politicians in these cities that are experiencing so-called "gentrification", the bottom feeding scumbags that they are, will use the influx of wealthy residents buying property in these blighted neighborhoods as an excuse to raise taxes across the board. The hipsters can usually afford the higher taxes and will see the expense as worth it, the price of living in such a cool area with access to the entertainment and culture they desire. The old residents, who are often elderly as well, get stuck with the higher taxes while being on a fixed income, and they don't give a shit about the culture, the restaurants, the art galleries, etc. close by, they just live there and wanna keep living there because it's what they've already been doing for awhile.
So yeah, I feel for elderly people on a fixed income who have to deal with higher taxes all of a sudden, but I'm not angry that wealthy white people are starting to move back to the inner cities where their parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. probably lived back in the day before the inner cities starting going to hell, with high crime and blight. And remember, these poor, persecuted minorities that activists claim to be fighting for out of this belief they have some kind of entitlement to these areas because they might've lived there for awhile, don't really have any special connection to these areas as they claim. They act like these are communities that go back for several generations, with a vast historical connection to the neighborhood. That's complete nonsense. Most of these areas were white ethnic communities: Italian, Irish, German, French, etc. until the 1960s and 70s, a lot of time even all the way up until the 1980s. Why aren't they supporting the new generation's desire to return to the inner city? They're merely returning to their roots and reestablishing the old communities their immigrant great grandparents were forced out of by greedy, corrupt politicians who allowed crime and vice to flourish. Why don't these community activist types encourage the "victims" of gentrification to just leave the city and settle in a more affordable suburb? Couldn't they still have a sense of community somewhere else?
Let's face it, you only really hear about "gentrification" being a problem when it's blacks getting "driven out of their homes" by these uncaring, "shallow white hipsters". Even though it happens just as often to old white people who live in the city, we never hear the outrage from community activist types when it's happening to them. Only when it happens to blacks do we even hear about this and are told that the politicians must do something to prevent it somehow, even though there's not much they can legally do (and they wouldn't want to even if they could because all they care about is potential dollar signs).
My grandmother, my father's mother, lived in one of the only neighborhoods in the entire city that is basically 100% white. She lived their her entire life. It was a blue collar neighborhood back in the day, nothing fancy, but as the city changed, demographics changed, people moved around, etc. All of a sudden, a big flood happens, the water level rises, and the many canals that run throughout the region start to overflow, some even start to burst, washing away probably 75% of the homes there. A lot of the elderly residents who lived there for most of a century rebuild their homes. A lot of them also sell their property and leave. A few years pass and all of a sudden there is a renewed interest to live in the city. A neighborhood that's 100% white but still close to all the convenience of the inner city is looking very attractive to buyers. Large homes get built on lots still empty from the flood. My grandmother's street remains mostly the same because somehow many of the original homes were salvageable. More years go by and the city sends assessors in to determine the value of the homes in that neighborhood. They value her home about 200k above the current value, which was about 150k over the actual value that someone in their right mind would ever pay for her tiny, 2 bedroom home. Her taxes increase by a ridiculous amount, based on that bogus assessment which overvalued all of those people's properties. She was never wealthy, but all of a sudden the politicians and the city government decide that she must be taxed like she is.
Is that fair? Of course not. Is it shitty? It's absolutely shitty. But that's the type of cons that these disgusting, bottom feeding politicians pull. You won't ever hear about something like that on the news. It's not titillating or controversial enough to attract the attention of anyone who isn't personally affected by it. But when it comes to gentrification, the kind I talked about prior, where it's minorities leaving an area in droves for the exact situation that happened to my grandma, suddenly people care. It has nothing to do with them, but they care. Whatever media outlet presented the issue to them framed it in such a way that it sounded like just another instance of rich, evil white pushing around innocent minorities, so now people start paying attention. Everybody is familiar with the gentrification issue for that reason only. Cities are always changing, this isn't anything new or special. When an urban area starts filling up with a new crop of greasy hipsters, they need to mind their own goddamn business lol. Stop pretending like you care about some geriatric stranger's tax rate.
So I was responding to that claim specifically. Even if white hipsters are moving in because "They like these areas because they are in the middle of a crowded city, where they have access to public transportation, historical restaurants, bar rooms, night clubs, art galleries, etc. All the nice advantages and benefits of living in the big city." (which I agree with) doesn't that prove they aren't choosing to avoid black neighborhoods? Clearly race and ethnicity aren't a dealbreaker for pro-multicultural whites, right?Would you rather live in an area that is all white or an area that is all black. Which would you choose? If you're being honest, I already know your answer.
The thing is, every ethnic group who is raising a family is going to choose the white area over the black if those are their choices. Even black families would rather the white area, in fact, them in particular, especially if they spent any time in a majority black environment.
The conversation seems to have shifted considerably from race and IQ to race and segregation.