Racial/Ethnic Pride and Nationalism -

[Billy of Hills]

I've seen quite a bit of debate regarding racial/ethnic pride. Some argue that pride based on a factor which one has no control over is unfounded, others argue that taking pride in the accomplishments of one's people and ancestors is a good thing.
Since the two topics are rather similar, what do people think of ethnic (think Kurdistan) or racial (think Ba'athism) nationalism?

 

[nad7155]

Being proud of something you had no choice in is retarded.

You should be proud of something you accomplish.

 

[JU 199]

It's interesting- If you asked a working class man in the north of England and a London highflyer what they thought their country's values were they'd give very different answers. It's never been consistent or unchanging. A few decades ago gays were dogshit tier and now most people think of them better then that.

I'd say recognition of when you came from is important but it shouldn't be the main driver of politics either.

 

[RanceSK]

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your skin color, your culture or your nation. The difference is when you force any of the said things through authoritarianism and terrorism, like many Kurds and Ba'athists do. I agree with concept of Kurdistan, but I'm much more in line with the views of the YPG than the PKK. I don't agree at all with the idea of Ba'athism, It's an ideal ideology for fascists in my opinion. We've seen how it worked out with Saddam, a leader that oppresses his citizens. I wouldn't wish that on any country.

 

[DirkBloodStormKing]

I'm going to go with @nad7155 and say that racial pride is fucking pointless and stupid. If the only thing you are proud of is your fucking race, whether it is white, black, Asian, etc., clearly you are an exceptional individual and not in the good way. In fact, you're fucking pathetic to be honest.

 

[Oglooger]

I've noticed that people who say you shouldn't be proud of your heritage and country tend to be white people, usually middle to upper class.
Having pride in your family and heritage is natural since humans are a social animal and have a need to belong to a group.

 

[JU 199]

Having pride in your family and heritage is natural since humans are a social animal and have a need to belong to a group.

Racial pride is irrational. Why should I be feel proud of accomplishments I had nothing to do with?

 

[Marvin]

Being proud of something you had no choice in is retarded.

You should be proud of something you accomplish.

They're treating their heritage as an extension of "you". They're saying "I came from people who did all this great stuff, and by extension, I have similar potential." They usually intend to continue doing great stuff in the same way.

People who don't have such intentions are like... I don't know, Barb Chandler.

 

[AnOminous]

There's nothing wrong with being "proud" of your ethnicity in the general sense of appreciating your place in history. If it turns into denialist bullshit where you have to make shit up about other races or some kind of racial supremacy, there's obviously a problem there.

It seems this occurs a lot more often, though, when someone specifically makes it about race, rather than some kind of cultural identity. You end up with white supremacists or these lolcows.

For instance, proud to be Turkish? Cool. Awesome. Denying that Turkey committed genocide against Armenians? Not so cool.

 

[SlayerOfTyranny]

Whether people should be proud of their race/heritage is one thing since that can definitely end up in racism.

But I'll tell you what you sure as hell shouldn't feel ashamed of your race/heritage and need to constantly apologize for it.

Isn't that like reverse racism?

 

[Cave]

There's nothing wrong with loving your culture and your people.
I just think we should be more proud of humanity's accomplishments.

 

[Alex Krycek]

I'm proud of my Irish-American heritage.
I also don't usually date Irish (or White) women.
Not that I hate them, just a personal preference.
You can be proud of where you're from and the accomplishments of your culture without despising every other culture.
You can also still be proud of your culture and embrace others. Just don't go all Trans-Ethnic.

 

[John Titor]

The positive kind of ethnic pride is to keep traditions alive especially against oppression (the real kind). You know, the whole meme theory thing.

It becomes negative when some idiot tries to claim that since his race "invented" computers, by extension, he invented computers; and then tries to use that as evidence of cultural superiority.

 

[Billy of Hills]

cultural superiority.

Are you asserting that no one culture can be inferior to another?

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

"The love of one country leads to the hate of another"- Bob Marley

 

[TyrannoNinja]

But I'll tell you what you sure as hell shouldn't feel ashamed of your race/heritage and need to constantly apologize for it.

Isn't that like reverse racism?

Presumably movements like "black pride", "[any other non-European] pride", and maybe even "Irish pride" started to combat something like this. SJW misuse of "internalization"aside, it's unfortunately true that members of certain marginalized groups can internalize larger biases against their own. I've seen it way too many times myself. So I can see developing an uplifting movement against this kind of self-dissociation. But yeah, it gets out of hand when it turns into ethnic supremacism.

 

[SlayerOfTyranny]

Presumably movements like "black pride", "[any other non-European] pride", and maybe even "Irish pride" started to combat something like this. SJW misuse of "internalization"aside, it's unfortunately true that members of certain marginalized groups can internalize larger biases against their own. I've seen it way too many times myself. So I can see developing an uplifting movement against this kind of self-dissociation. But yeah, it gets out of hand when it turns into ethnic supremacism.

I think alot of the recent rise in white supremacism is like a counter reaction to growing anti white propaganda and sentiment.

But really both sides are being stupid in my mind since the proper reaction to racism isn't counter racism.

It doesn't really matter though cause humans gonna human.

 

[DirkBloodStormKing]

I think alot of the recent rise in white supremacism is like a counter reaction to growing anti white propaganda and sentiment.

But really both sides are being stupid in my mind since the proper reaction to racism isn't counter racism.

It doesn't really matter though cause humans gonna human.

Pretty much this. Martin Luther King Jr. said that the only way to fight hatred is love. Why be a shitty person and hate other races and ethnicities when you could be a decent person and you know, not be a fucking racist? We're really one race, the human race.

This is probably the one post made by a loveshy that I actually kind of agree with.

 

[Yellow Yam Scam]

It's very odd to me that people think that someone who is proud of their race isn't necessarily proud of other things in their lives. The whole "If all you have to be proud of is your race, you're x" argument is just rhetorical nonsense.

 

[Mecha-Lenin]

It might be important here to point out that three is a difference between "color-blindness" ("Race does not matter anymore", "Black Lives Matter is racist") and simply seeing race as fundamentally unimportant in a rational world ("People should not take pride in something beyond their control", "Race should not lead politics").

Unfortunately, we do not live in a rational world, we live in a world that is incredibly stratified along racial lines, where racism and racist institutions feed each other, and where the politically and economically powerful use scape-goating to divide people along race and nation (to their own benefit, of course).

Thus, the "color-blind" attitude, is a very, very foolish attitude to take. We must recognize that we live in a racist and nationalistic world (with racists, and nationalists) if we wish not only to confront those irrationalities, but also confront what causes them.

...

I have my own views on race and nation that are a little more specific than that. But for now I wanted to throw this out there.