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Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I disagree with the comparison because at least Superman 4 is still in line with the character and theme of Superman, which is optimism and belief in human kind. As opposed to nu-ST which is completely contrary to the ideas of discovery and optimism that were in the original ST and makes the character of Picard space jesus rather than a person with his own biases.
Also, as preachy as the message of Superman 4 it is still valid (if naïve) idea. While STP's message (from the video at least) seems to be of Elitism of "the common man should be told what to do because he is too racist and stupid to know otherwise".
That's really a great point. I was more focused on the folly of catering to an actor's hubris and giving them a chance to get on a soapbox, but it's true that at its core Quest for Peace is still trying to be a Superman movie. As bad a movie as it is, there's still a very touching scene where the UN offers Supes a standing ovation for everything he's done to help mankind.

The difference, I think -- and this applies to a lot of these franchises that are crashing and burning -- is that whatever Quest for Peace's intentions might have been, it was not made with animus toward the audience (animus toward Reagan, sure), or with the intention of totally subverting the character. That makes a huge difference.
 

frozenrunner

Please do not hoard limited salt supplies.
kiwifarms.net
The hivemind on /tv/ viciously hates the ST for being leftist ((subversion)) of heroic ideals yet vigorously defend the Prequels. Movies which take the established concept of heroic knights adhering to the old codes of justice and honor, then turn it all upside down and retcon them into incompetent clowns blinded by their own pride.
Anyone who defends the prequels as "actually pretty good" is a lolcow.
 

BScCollateral

kiwifarms.net
Anyone who defends the prequels as "actually pretty good" is a lolcow.
That's a step too far for me.

Anyone who defends the prequels as "actually pretty good" has poor taste in film, barring emotional associations they're not able to overcome.

I know a guy who likes the Holiday Special because he had an awful relationship with his father, and it's ultimately about a father risking his life to be there for his son. Stupid as it sounds, it pushes buttons for him and I don't think less of him for that. I just ignore his opinion.
 

Replicant Sasquatch

Do Lolcows Dream of Electric Hedgehog Pokemon?
kiwifarms.net
There's been a surge of support for the prequel trilogy in the last few years as a way to further shit on the sequel trilogy and it's been beyond re‎tarded.

If someone put a gun to my head and told me to decide between the two trilogies I'd probably choose the bullet.
Both are bloated, unprofessional disasters which completely miss the mark on what people actually liked about the original films. Just one is an exercise in auteur laziness and the other a bland corporate product.
 

frozenrunner

Please do not hoard limited salt supplies.
kiwifarms.net
That's a step too far for me.

Anyone who defends the prequels as "actually pretty good" has poor taste in film, barring emotional associations they're not able to overcome.

I know a guy who likes the Holiday Special because he had an awful relationship with his father, and it's ultimately about a father risking his life to be there for his son. Stupid as it sounds, it pushes buttons for him and I don't think less of him for that. I just ignore his opinion.
Oh, you can be moved by powerful ideas and elements in bad art. It's happened to me many times in my life. I wouldn't hold that against anyone else, either. The schlock that's moved me to tears over the years...

But we can still step back, evaluate, and dismiss bad art as being unsuccessful. (Terrible films are, of course, rarely universally terrible. There are often good ideas and elements in bad movies.) I'm not saying anyone should be forced to submit to any sort of universal "take" on a movie. I'm saying a person crosses over and becomes a laughingstock not when they say, "this resonates with me more strongly than it would for most people" or "whatever, I like this anyway" but when they insist a dumpster fire of a film is actually high quality. (See: Razorfist loving the prequels or, for the inverse, Razorfist hating Blade Runner 2049.) You can like or appreciate something and still know it's kind of shitty.
 

TheImportantFart

The Farter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
There's been a surge of support for the prequel trilogy in the last few years as a way to further shit on the sequel trilogy and it's been beyond re‎tarded.
It’s also because the fanbase now contains a lot of zoomers who grew up with the Prequels and like them for sentimental reasons.

It’s absolutely precious because a lot of them will parrot MauLer’s spiel about objectivity at you verbatim, and say that even if you like the Sequels for subjective reasons you’re stupid pants, but then turn around and rattle off a list of entirely subjective reasons for why the Prequels are supposedly amazing and expect you to accept it.

But yes, there is also a “trigger the libs, owns the libs” mentality in action, which is honestly more embarrassing than the true believers.
 

wtfNeedSignUp

kiwifarms.net
The hivemind on /tv/ viciously hates the ST for being leftist ((subversion)) of heroic ideals yet vigorously defend the Prequels. Movies which take the established concept of heroic knights adhering to the old codes of justice and honor, then turn it all upside down and retcon them into incompetent clowns blinded by their own pride.
There is a big difference though. The only real information we had about the Jedi order is biased as hell and, in general, it seems like the order contained a lot of noble heroic people but suffered from being leashed by the senate and clinging to past dogma. It wasn't a case of shitting over the Jedi to put some postmodern message but applying realistic limitations on the Jedi that makes them dependent on the clone troopers, which eventually spells their downfall.

I don't know, it might be because I've seen the prequels when I was young, but I can't really hate them. I can appreciate the world building and the attempted arc they tried to do with Anakin (plus shitload of memorable moments for good and ill). The plot could have easiely been written so the Jedi are impossibly perfect and were betrayed from the inside but that's both unrealistic and cliche. Plus the characters in the prequel actually occasionally fail and get overpowered.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Choke on these nuts
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That's really a great point. I was more focused on the folly of catering to an actor's hubris and giving them a chance to get on a soapbox, but it's true that at its core Quest for Peace is still trying to be a Superman movie. As bad a movie as it is, there's still a very touching scene where the UN offers Supes a standing ovation for everything he's done to help mankind.

The difference, I think -- and this applies to a lot of these franchises that are crashing and burning -- is that whatever Quest for Peace's intentions might have been, it was not made with animus toward the audience (animus toward Reagan, sure), or with the intention of totally subverting the character. That makes a huge difference.
Now, if the STP writers had a say in it, the UN would be entirely stocked with lesbian muslim women speaking jiddish, who await Superman tapping their feet in unison, chastising him for asking if he can take care of the huge monster that is currently tearing through New York and eating all its inhabitants.
 

rabo

Make it soy!
kiwifarms.net
I guess it's just a matter of perspective then. For me Star Wars was over when the prequels hit. That's when I realized Star Wars was ruined. It was something I wasted a lot of time nagging at internally as a young person. It made the prequel RLM reviews a lot funnier and more cogent to me but it was still something that bothered me...

...until I realized I didn't have to care. I don't have to acknowledge the ~new canon~ that Lucas put out. It doesn't have to matter to me and when that hit me I was horrified by the amount of time that I wasted whining to myself about how STAR WARS IS RUINED just because the prequels were shit.

After I told myself to stop being a whiny bitch and stop feeling sorry for myself, my joy for Star Wars returned. I don't waste time thinking about the prequels and the sequels being shit just didn't impact me very much. It's my personal experience, and opinion, that being so utterly fixated on the sequels/prequels that they ruin your enjoyment of Star Wars is a sign of obsession and a lack of maturity. I'm not trying to be a jerk about how you feel but it's frankly ridiculous to waste so many internet tears on movies. Star Wars is not a religion and it doesn't fill your bank account. They're entertainment. Some of them are better than others.

Star Wars is important to me and it'll always be in my heart. But sometimes you have to step back, look at the Extended Universe and all of the horrid badly written trash that Kevin J Anderson shit out or the New Jedi Order or that Knights of the Old Republic II was an unfinished game and you realize...

Well maybe Star Wars was always kind of shit and just because spiteful people did the sequels doesn't mean that the rest of Star Wars that they didn't touch was any good.

Don't forget that before Disney came Lucas, trying to destroy the Library of Congress's copy of Star Wars because it didn't fit his artistic vision. George Lucas raped my childhood and the fact that people are trying to cover up this violent rape just because they don't like the sequels is frankly ludicrous.
I can still go back and enjoy Star Trek fine. But I think it's still a shame, It hasn't been ruined, but what irks me is that I want more Star Trek and I will never have more because what is Star Trek has become something that's not Star Trek.

I think that's what makes people so mad.
It's like going to this amazing restaurant and one day they change all their menu and nothing on it is your cup of tea. Sure if yo ask nicely they'll make you something from the classic menu but it's just not the same anymore.
 

haurchefant

a smile better suits a hero
kiwifarms.net
I can still go back and enjoy Star Trek fine. But I think it's still a shame, It hasn't been ruined, but what irks me is that I want more Star Trek and I will never have more because what is Star Trek has become something that's not Star Trek.

I think that's what makes people so mad.
It's like going to this amazing restaurant and one day they change all their menu and nothing on it is your cup of tea. Sure if yo ask nicely they'll make you something from the classic menu but it's just not the same anymore.
On the one hand I get that but also....come on dude, Enterprise sucked until its last season, the show runners were burnt out and refused to accept it until they were booted off. That was back in post-9/11 days. A revival was destined to be shit, the original spirit died on the floor of Voyager and they tried to do Weekend At Bernie's with Enterprise.

Picard is shit, but I find it shit more for the fact that it's a blatant cash in run by morons and 50 year olds trying to recapture their youth and remake Battlestar. It's so wildly inconsistent with anything that's come before that it's easy for me to dismiss and not having any real bearing on the real Star Trek.
 

Guts Gets Some

Don't lose your way
kiwifarms.net
The only thing the prequels impact is the cheap twist reveal that everybody already fucking knows. Nothing about Luke's journey is impacted or diminished by what happens in the prequels.





No foreshadowing.
The only time I ever got through the prequels, I watched the originals right after, and they were on TV, so it was the newest and up-to-date version Lucas had shat out at the time, and from the first 20 minutes, I said "This is not the same canon at all. It doesn't match up, even a little bit. This isn't even the same universe."

The prequels remain the absolute quintessential example of how not to do prequels.
 

Dom Cruise

kiwifarms.net
I disagree with the comparison because at least Superman 4 is still in line with the character and theme of Superman, which is optimism and belief in human kind. As opposed to nu-ST which is completely contrary to the ideas of discovery and optimism that were in the original ST and makes the character of Picard space jesus rather than a person with his own biases.
Also, as preachy as the message of Superman 4 it is still valid (if naïve) idea. While STP's message (from the video at least) seems to be of Elitism of "the common man should be told what to do because he is too racist and stupid to know otherwise".
Another thing in Superman 4's defense is it was addressing the issue of nuclear annihilation, which was kind of a big deal.

Today the left throws a shitfit over mean comments on the internet.
 

mindlessobserver

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The entire ST is a missed opportunity to address the failings of the Jedi in the PT. They were so massively determined to make Rey the Hero while at the same time totally subvert the Jedi Order and what Luke accomplished in the OT that they would have been better served as making Rey a Dark Side user and Kylo Ren the inadequate inheritor of a flawed legacy.

Reys upbringing was shit. She was abandoned on a planet. Had to live like a slave to some fat personification of the patriarchy. But she was also a palpatine and she finally snaps. And ends up attracting the attention of Darth Plageuis who has also been in hiding on her planet. And so we get an inversion of the training arc. Only from the perspective of the Sith.

Yeah this is not true to Lucas" pure vision of Good vs. Evil, but so what. We already saw that with the OT. Something new would be to challenge the OT. Intelligently. And the final "Duel of Fates" would not be Some bullshit palpatine clone vs. The Best Jedi Ever Rey. It would have been Luke Skywalker at the height of his power vs. Rey as a Sith Lord achieving the height of her power over a 3 movie arc. The dunking on Luke and the Jedi would have been more acceptable as we would be seeing it from the perspective of the Sith.

But nah. We got stupid instead.
 
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