Religion Discussion -

[Sanic]

Someone had to post this eventually, so I'll do it. Basically, discuss your beliefs, belief systems, have friendly debates, and most importantly, don't be rude.

Also, if you have personal experiences to share, please do. Though those may be better suited for the Zen Buddhism thread. It's less hostile there. = p

Still, go ahead and share them here as well.

 

[ASoulMan]

I've been to a few Christian churches throughout my life, but I consider myself to be very ambiguous when it comes to religion. You could say that I'm agnostic.

I like some of the mythos behind some religions, like the Ancient Greek/Roman gods and goddesses, though some such as Scientology sounds like some of the worst science fiction shit that I've ever heard of.

To me, religion is bad when you allow it to cloud your mind and use it to justify actions that are anything but. And then there's interpreting stuff to where you become an extremist. I also feel like part of organized religion turned from being charitable to "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY SO YOU'LL BE HEALED!".

Besides this, I tend to stay away from any debates that involves religion. I don't mind what you believe in for as long as you don't force them upon me.

 

[Mourning Dove]

I'm agnostic as well. Mainstream religion is not my thing. It must be because I've lived in the Bible Belt all my life.

It's fine to believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt or infringe upon the rights of others. More than anything, I view religions anthropologically. Looking at the religious lores objectively, they are simply vivid stories to explain the way things are and the social mores a culture should follow. My favorite mythology to study is the ancient Egyptian one. But all religions have crazy-ass imagery and stories.

 

[Queen of Tarts]

I go between being atheist and agnostic to maybe believing in something, just not the Bible. I have respect for religion so long as the people who are following it don't step on my toes.

When you study religion, a lot of it is very similar. It makes you wonder where the first origin story came from, and how it was passed along. The flood is a common story, and among certain other mythologies, so are the destruction of the gods in some manner.

 

[exball]

I'm agnostic.

 

[chimpburgers]

I was a Christian for much of my life and a lot of my family is Catholic. There were times where I went to nondemoninational churches every Sunday and even went as far as to go to camps and stuff for the church.

Even my parents are still Catholic even though they never attend Mass or anything. I believed fervently in what the Bible taught even though there were things in there I never took literally and I even read the whole thing at least two times. Last year though, I became an agnostic and before stopped going to church entirely, though I've also sometimes called myself an atheist. I will say though that some of the nicest people that I've met personally in my life have been Christians so I have nothing against those people at all, just the extremists out there like Pat Robertson who are just using the religion to spread hate and trying to get their ideas into law.

 

[Red_Rager]

I'm atheist, but i don't wear it on my sleeve. I believe there is a higher power and that higher power is the fundamental laws of reality. I don't believe there is an almighty overseer of existence and if there is I highly doubt humans would rate high enough to be noticed.

Science is but a tool humans use to study the laws of reality, and religion is but a way for people to attempt to make sense of reality. The knowledge we have today was built from the foundation of knowledge recorded by our ancestors and passed down to us to do with as we see fit. Humans are constantly getting the reset button hit on us over and over again as new people are born while others die. The mindset of an entity that lives forever, I don't see how we would be able to relate let alone comprehend such an entity. A human lifespan would barely rate a blink of an eye.

I believe in the universe but I don't believe in a god. However, for those that do I really don't care. Live and let live, I am not here to rain on your belief. In the end, we all seek to find a place in the world and cope with the madness around us, just trying to get by.

 

[Hat]

I'm a pretty conservative Protestant, myself. I once identified with the Episcopal Church, but I left it due to a combination of my dislike of the ministers, its theology, and its stance on certain issues. When I can remember to wake up in time, I'll attend a small Baptist church.

 

[AppleChrisp]

A common problem I have when I'm discussing Catholicism with people is that they equate the actions and behaviours of Christians with the teachings of Catholicism. The teachings of Jesus in themselves are not bad, but a lot of people at my church are so fanatical about Catholicism that the way they behave and the things they say aren't even in accordance with Jesus' teachings. I think that what's at the root of this is the division in Christianity of belief in God vs. actions. Some people believe that belief in Jesus is enough to get into heaven, while others say it's not enough - that we need to live according to Jesus' teachings. Some tend to put themselves on a pedestal and think they are "God warriors" who are objectively moral. They tend to be very cold people. Others recognize that they are not any better than anyone else and that God loves everyone equally, and they tend to be more compassionate. I think Pope Benedict promoted more of the "God warrior" mentality, and now Pope Francis is promoting a more compassionate mentality that Christians desperately need.

Studies have shown that Christians and Muslims have lower IQs than atheists. Why is this? I think it's because when people have a religion, they think they are good to go and they don't need to think about anything else - they have default answers for everything (ex: because God). Muslims are taught not to question Islam and Imams beat young children for asking questions - will they grow up to think critically or anything else that will promote development of the problem-solving parts of the brain? While Christians where I'm from don't suffer this type of abuse (I have heard of horror stories of Catholic schools in Russia and other shitty Catholic schools in parts of the states), the mindset of not requiring any answers is the same. Not just not requiring any answers - but denying scientific evidence. For example, in my Catholic high school a teacher actually believed the earth was flat, and mentioned that God placed dinosaur bones in the earth to trick us. He was naturally the laughing stock of the school population, but this kind of extremism is rampant in those who think the Bible should be treated as scientific proof. While these sorts of beliefs are against the teachings of the church, they do, unfortunately, exist. Again, this is behaviour that is stereotypical of Christians and therefore people tend to label Catholics as being just as ignorant. While some Catholics are like that, Catholicism encourages scientific advancement and philosophical and critical thought.

 

[klystron]

I used to go to Synagogue and church, which was very confusing for a young kid. Then my dad (Jewish) told me to just go to church since he had a hard time growing up Jewish (teased for some reason) and America is a "Christian nation." Then my mom kind of went all Christian-science and I lost interest. For many years I became what I called a "non-practicing atheist." I still believed in the Bible and its teachings, but felt that I knew better about how to live my life. It turns out that I didn't, and accepting that there are things in this universe more intelligent, powerful, and awesome than myself was a huge step forward in improving my life. @AppleChrisp says that somehow Christians stop seeking answers and that means they have a "lower IQ" but in my case it was exactly the opposite. When my mind opened and I started seeking more answers everything got better for me. In fact, I really need to get off my lazy butt and find a new non-denominational church to attend after moving.

 

[Holdek]

I'm mostly atheist but a little bit agnostic. This is because while there is no evidence for the supernatural, there are concepts like what was going on before the big bang that Thomas Aquinas' explanations of make more sense to me than our leading cosmologists'. But I also recognize that this is probably because just thinking about space-time existing in a singularity kind of wraps my brain into a pretzel and makes me .

 

[AppleChrisp]

@AppleChrisp says that somehow Christians stop seeking answers and that means they have a "lower IQ" but in my case it was exactly the opposite. When my mind opened and I started seeking more answers everything got better for me. In fact, I really need to get off my lazy butt and find a new non-denominational church to attend after moving.

I think you misunderstood me. By becoming a Christian, I'm assuming you don't block out scientific realities. For example, I hope you don't believe that God created the world exactly as it states in Genesis and that the first two human beings were Adam and Eve, and that evolution is an evil lie. Belief in God is not going to automatically raise you IQ. Critical thought is necessary for that. I'm glad that things got better for you. I was in a similar situation a number of years ago.

 

[Teddy]

Raised in a Christian household, and still have faith and go to church when I can.

I don't understand why so many people today think Religion, specifically Christianity, is so obsolete. or think every Christian is a moron. Everyone has their right to believe in God or not, but to act like it's stupid to believe is absurd. And yet this is what I see everyday. Pretenious people, famous and not, acting like they're smarter and "progressive" because of not having faith.

 

[Red_Rager]

Raised in a Christian household, and still have faith and go to church when I can.

I don't understand why so many people today think Religion, specifically Christianity, is so obsolete. or think every Christian is a moron. Everyone has their right to believe in God or not, but to act like it's stupid to believe is absurd. And yet this is what I see everyday. Pretenious people, famous and not, acting like they're smarter and "progressive" because of not having faith.

I don't think being a Christian makes one a thundering moron. That comes with arrogance and thinking you have the Truth with a capital T. When you have the "Truth" what else is there to seek? You shut the door on possibilities taking comfort in the shadows of your Truth, never looking out for something more.

 

[klystron]

I think you misunderstood me. By becoming a Christian, I'm assuming you don't block out scientific realities. For example, I hope you don't believe that God created the world exactly as it states in Genesis and that the first two human beings were Adam and Eve, and that evolution is an evil lie. Belief in God is not going to automatically raise you IQ. Critical thought is necessary for that. I'm glad that things got better for you. I was in a similar situation a number of years ago.

I believe what my (much older) friend who went to a Catholic high school in the 60s was taught: whatever the truth is, it's important to believe that God created it.

Personally I don't believe the Bible gets everything literally right. The most important thing for a Christian is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (something I struggle with at times) and to accept Him as your savior. I personally believe a lot of the history of Creation as told in the Bible is designed to make us think and seek out answers. But I'm also a scientist by trade, so it makes sense that I might think that way.

I didn't mean that belief in God raises your IQ; on the contrary, I believe IQ is fixed at birth. I simply feel that to be an atheist is the most closed minded thing there is. I also believe that it is also the most unscientific. After all, something cannot come from nothing, but that is what atheists and the big bang theory want us to believe.

I also don't necessarily buy evolution, but that's not for religious reasons and it would make another great thread of discussion.

So here's a biblical question I often wonder about: many interpret the promise God made after the great flood to never do it again, and then ultimately the sending of His Son to us to better understand us as a sign of a living God who changes with time. However, the Bible also says that God is always and infinite. It makes sense that Jesus is needed for one such as God to better understand our lives here, but on the other hand even if we are so below God that he can't comprehend us, surely it is possible that instead of the convention wisdom that it is actually our understanding of God that has evolved over time. Perhaps that was the reason Jesus was sent here that we might better understand Him.

tl;dr random thoughts blah blah

 

[Iamthatis]

I believe that the animals, plants, and humans on earth are like the cells in our bodies. Together we are a part of the earth and its is alive.

 

[Jomadre]

I don't know if I believe in god, but I think he hates me...

 

[Holdek]

Raised in a Christian household, and still have faith and go to church when I can.

I don't understand why so many people today think Religion, specifically Christianity, is so obsolete. or think every Christian is a moron. Everyone has their right to believe in God or not, but to act like it's stupid to believe is absurd. And yet this is what I see everyday. Pretenious people, famous and not, acting like they're smarter and "progressive" because of not having faith.

Christianity is just an idea that people came up with. The same as, say, Cubism in art or Maoism in politics. If I can think believing in Maoism is stupid, it's also fine to think that believing in any other dumb idea some people have thought up is stupid.

It doesn't mean the believer is a stupid person necessarily, just that their idea is stupid. For example, I don't think Tom Cruise is a stupid person, but the fact that he believes in an intergalactic dictator named Xenu...I think that's pretty stupid.

 

[DuskEngine]

I'm kind of noncognitivist, which means I think that discussing the existence of a thing that is by definition unknowable, inconceivable and unverifiable is absurd. Not even because it's wrong, but because such a concept is just...incoherent, and there's no sensible way to discuss such a thing. Even claiming that God doesn't exist presupposes that God is a concept that can be reasonably defined.

Basically, my answer to "Does God exist?" is "I don't understand the question."

EDIT: Kierkegaard knew what he was talking about when he pointed out that the paradoxes built into Christianity (and really any other religion) are a feature and not a bug.

If you claim to know that God, which is by definition unknowable and inconceivable, exists, then you're speaking nonsense. To have faith that God exists is something else entirely.

 

[AppleChrisp]

I believe what my (much older) friend who went to a Catholic high school in the 60s was taught: whatever the truth is, it's important to believe that God created it.

Personally I don't believe the Bible gets everything literally right. The most important thing for a Christian is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (something I struggle with at times) and to accept Him as your savior. I personally believe a lot of the history of Creation as told in the Bible is designed to make us think and seek out answers. But I'm also a scientist by trade, so it makes sense that I might think that way.

I didn't mean that belief in God raises your IQ; on the contrary, I believe IQ is fixed at birth. I simply feel that to be an atheist is the most closed minded thing there is. I also believe that it is also the most unscientific. After all, something cannot come from nothing, but that is what atheists and the big bang theory want us to believe.

I also don't necessarily buy evolution, but that's not for religious reasons and it would make another great thread of discussion.

So here's a biblical question I often wonder about: many interpret the promise God made after the great flood to never do it again, and then ultimately the sending of His Son to us to better understand us as a sign of a living God who changes with time. However, the Bible also says that God is always and infinite. It makes sense that Jesus is needed for one such as God to better understand our lives here, but on the other hand even if we are so below God that he can't comprehend us, surely it is possible that instead of the convention wisdom that it is actually our understanding of God that has evolved over time. Perhaps that was the reason Jesus was sent here that we might better understand Him.

tl;dr random thoughts blah blah

The Bible doesn't get everything right. But you're correct, the most important thing to draw from it is to have a personal relationship with God. The purpose of the Creation story isn't to tell us historically what happened, but that God created us. Whether it be through the big bang, evolution, etc.
I have to point out that your statement about IQ being fixed at birth is incorrect. That is a very old biological argument, and we have many studies demonstrating the plasticity of the brain and that IQ can be improved or lowered given certain factors. I would be happy to send you some studies on this matter if you like. Yes, an atheist is closed minded, but they are not the most unscientific - you are basing this off of the single concept of the big bang theory. Christians can be just as closed minded and more scientific, denying modern medicine, evolution, and adopting the early Biblical stories as scientific fact.
The reason Jesus came wasn't to better understand us - he created us! From Jesus we got to know a side of God that we couldn't have otherwise - we got to develop a personal relationship with him. We got to know the depth of his love for us, that he would ultimately die for us, no matter who you are, no matter what you've done. So we get to understand God as a merciful, kind, and loving God that we just didn't see in the Old Testament.