Representation in the media -

BountifulFeast

Slurp Slurp
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I hate how "diverse" characters are often so flat and boring. I like diversity in stories because it allows me to see how different kinds of people are affected by the plot. It can be turn a mundane situation into a very interesting one.

People are so scared of the stereotype boogeyman that minority characters aren't allowed to have character anymore. If I'm reading a story about a gay guy, I'm expecting that to at least partially affect his character interactions. I don't want him to be just another character except rainbow. And I'm sick and tired of mentally ill characters being either perfect little angels or theatrical mass murderers. If you want an interesting and memorable autistic character, I'd say take inspiration from one of the dozens of clowns featured on this site. I'd read that.
 

8777BB5

Keep Her Sexy and Straightforward
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My issue with the diversity police is that they want to have it both ways. They want diversity, yet they don't want the diverse people to be portrayed in a negative light. When I was a kid one of the book series that I was forced to read were the open court books. The Open Court Books tried to have it both ways: They wanted to be diverse but at the same time they wanted to be PC. So you get black kids who wear suits and ties to school and don't do anything fun because having fun is racist, all the Asian characters are Pajama wearing Chinese people who believe in fairy tales, all the white people are stereotypical 1950s racists who live in ghettos, and all the Hispanic characters enjoying living in third world shitholes and practicing fairy tale medicine.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
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The one thing which has always opened my eyes was Idris Elba's own discussion on casting versus the hackneyed attempts of diversity we see in most media.

The simple fact is that the problems in casting is that writers are hilariously bad and racist, even the "woke" ones. The same with those who make the casting decisions. Far far worse than in the general wider world where nobody generally gives a fuck about your skin colour, religion or sexuality unless you're a cunt about one of those facets. Usually it's down to how good you are at your job.

Elba noticed this as whenever he went into a role, he'd be given a character description that would almost invariably include pointing out the skin colour, and they'd almost always been some sort of criminal (his most famous role internationally is as Russel "Stringer" Bell in The Wire) etc.

The main characters and their descriptions, however, would almost be randomly descriptive about certain aspects of the character. "A cheeky smile, and sparkling eyes." with no such mention of skin colour.

Elba, as a classically trained actor asked his agent why he wasn't allowed to go for those roles and was glibly replied to with "It's just the way things are."

This bizarre attitude among the crowd who drape themselves in the thin veneer of being representative, woke, or whatever stupid name progressivism tries to adopt is not only hilariously backwards, but flat out racist. All we're seeing now is a downright hilarious pandering attempt by these hacks to "correct" themselves despite every attempt at putting in said diverse people as flat out shitty tokenism.

This is why Elba would later go on to help star in, and produce the critically acclaimed (and I personally think brilliant) Luther. While hailed as the "first black lead BBC drama" it is genuinely well written and the characters could be interchangeable which is what Elba wanted to drive at.
 

Benine Bovine

Won’t push you off a cliff. Can’t spell.
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I think that since the world is a very diverse place, having a diverse cast in many stories seem very natural, but i hate how its been made a Thing. It feels a bit othering that in marketing, plot is being pushed aside for the fact that you have diverse people in your story. Half the world is women, there are hundreds if not thousands of ethic groups, you dont need to pat yourself in the back for aknowledging that there is more to the world than just white straight men. Its literally just reflecting reality to write a variety of characters.

And also i feel like a lot of it is very trend and surface based, like revisioned tokenism. You want a middle eastern character but cant tell the difference between Syria and Tunisia, you want a trans character but you dont even do enough research to not draw them in ace bandage, you want a mentally ill character but you never actually show the grit and struggle of being sick because “it may portray them in a bad light”

You also need to draw the line between “incorperating their identity into the narrative while also making them an equally fleshed out, non stereotypical character” which can be hard to pull off, but the basis of doing that is just to start with a personality and build on that. I see so many flat characters that seem to have no identity outside or what you can cross out on a paper and its not very good. People with less represented identities should be able to have characters that are shaped by their experience, but far from defined by them, who have all types of human emotions, flaws and motivations. Not just cardboard cutouts like the tokenism that has been going on forever.

Oh and also for the love of god you can make a minority character morally grey and not have all people that aren’t white or cis be angles, just make sure to avoid stereotypes and common pitfalls, but please its ok to have your character act selfish or lie or have problems, it drives the narrative. And also makes them seem like actual people.

So basically i welcome and actually appreciate all types of narratives and people in media, but i think it should come from a place of love and genuine interest, rather than quick bucks and a desire to seem progressive

and that if you aren’t a part of that demographic, you should take your time to study both common experiences and common stereotypical portrayals, but not be paralyzed with fear and revert back to sterilizing their character arch and making them all perfect people who are always right. Cause thats bad writing.
 

Tlazolli

pingas
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I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans.

Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.

I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.
 

Tlazolli

pingas
kiwifarms.net
If representation is so important for children to be accepted then why are the most loved TV shows and children's books filled with characters that are animals? Most children identify with Peppa pig, bunny rabbits, Winnie the Pooh etc.

But apparently it's too difficult for adults to do.
:autism:
They can’t relate unless it’s obviously similar to them physically because they can’t read emotions let alone understand them.
 

Deadwaste

insert witty comment here
kiwifarms.net
When I was a kid one of the book series that I was forced to read were the open court books. The Open Court Books tried to have it both ways: They wanted to be diverse but at the same time they wanted to be PC. So you get black kids who wear suits and ties to school and don't do anything fun because having fun is racist, all the Asian characters are Pajama wearing Chinese people who believe in fairy tales, all the white people are stereotypical 1950s racists who live in ghettos, and all the Hispanic characters enjoying living in third world shitholes and practicing fairy tale medicine.
and yet it was probably still considered racist in the end
 

Audit_The_Autist

spoopy harry potter cloak with a hitachi wand
kiwifarms.net
If representation is so important for children to be accepted then why are the most loved TV shows and children's books filled with characters that are animals? Most children identify with Peppa pig, bunny rabbits, Winnie the Pooh etc.

But apparently it's too difficult for adults to do.
That's because children aren't looking to cinema and television for self-validation. Most people go to the movies to watch the latest flick and enjoy the film, but the people who constantly whine about representation are going to the movies to experience a particular fantasy. They have to see that mean white man get beaten up by the noble transgender PoC with half a dozen mental illnesses because it's what they want in real life. The problem with this is that they'll never come out and admit that this is what they want in a movie, so they'll write essays on why there should be more Asians, Mexicans, or 1 legged beavers with autism in a feeble attempt to get the film industry to cater to them. The film industry occasionally does follow their demands but only in a watered-down fashion with anything offensive removed, see Star Wars: VIII, but the movies never sell the way they think it should, resulting in the production companies playing it even safer in future films and cutting out anything that may be considered controversial.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
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I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans.

Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.

I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.
It's mostly because of the fact the cartels and associated latin gangs are so prevalent on the West Coast and South West where the majority of media output comes from. They've really taken the top spot from the black gangs.

They fade away to near-nothing when it's East Coast productions.

It does fucking say something though that the first "real" Mexican character that's supposed to be a joking stereotype that isn't a drug runner that came to my mind was Ernesto Gonzalez from fricken Bordertown. Which was taking the piss out of as many stereotypes as possible. Gonzalez runs a gardening firm and tries to support his large family and is a devout catholic. Legit stereotype territory.

I mean it can't be that hard to have it even vaguely shoehorned in. Have the Mexican character own a local bar where he does the whole "fusion" thing to serve both customer bases well. Murrican flags everywhere for 4th of July, Mexican flags everywhere for Cinco De Mayo etc. Have your "dumb ole whitey" character express surprise when a Mexican holiday "sneaks up" on them when they go to their watering hole, then have him join in with a mangled bit of spanish, Joe Kennedy Style.

===================================

There's always a thousand ways to "do diversity" in a far better, far lighter manner than the screaming tards on twitter who're the self-declared guardians of Diversity often profess and demand and we often see. This is one of the few times where diversity in writing becomes an issue.

It is overwhelmingly white, middle class idiots living with other white, middle class idiots all pretending they're not racist when in reality they simply haven't had any experience with ordinary, every day people.

They're also way too prideful to go out there and go "hey, I need help writing this shit, consult with me" which is something GTA V actually did. They actually hired in ex-gang members and black people from the LA area to get the wording, attitudes and behaviour down right.

People still complained about how racist the portrayal was, because of course they did.

Casting isn't really an issue, there's plenty of people ready to go in front of a camera and you can soon find more. What you need is writers from different backgrounds.

Just throwing black/mexican/whatever writers at it doesn't work either, it needs actual wider ranging people from a wider background economically and this is the major issue at present and the real need for "diversity". You could hire a thousand minority writers tomorrow and it won't make a fucking lick of difference because they're all likely to be middle class or above and thus the problem continues.

Now, saying that, there seems to be some good new talent coming up that might not have gotten the same prominence without these calls for Diversity.

Dee Rees is one such noted talent tackling numerous thorny issues and doing it well, having heard her in interviews and seen Mudbound she tackles these issues very well and it shows in her audience ratings over on Rotten Tomatoes (the more "real" measure of a film).

So there's some good news, but it's going to be drowned out for a while still yet by the "woke" crowds.
 

Slap47

Hehe xd
True & Honest Fan
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I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans.

Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.

I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.
I think they're just racists. The basis for alot of this has been the idea that people can't relate to people of different ethnicities and so we need diversity.
 

Rabbit without a hat

I'm here 'cause why not?
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You know how literature/English classes when it comes to you essay exams you have to write down a bunch of bullshit the author probably never intended?

It's the same with media studies, basically you say the directors/producers meant a bunch of shit they probably didn't because it gets you marks. So like, this film represents old people as weak because an old guy stumbles for a half second during a chase sequence or something like that.

The people wanting to shoehorn in diversity (as in wanting it for political reasons or for wish fulfillment and no other reason) are like the people who read back their literature exam and thought "yeah, Dickens did mean all this when he said a coat was red,".
 
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Lensherr

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I’ve been thinking a lot about how SJWs talk a big game about how diversity in entertainment needs to happen, but what I never see is actual data that indicates it would lead to minorities having a better footing in society (which seems to be the end that they have in mind to justify the means). Have there ever been any studies done on this, and if so what were their results?
 
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RockVolnutt

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I’ve been thinking a lot about how SJWs talk a big game about how diversity in entertainment needs to happen, but what I never see is actual data that indicates it would lead to minorities having a better footing in society (which seems to be the end that they have in mind to justify the means). Have there ever been any studies done on this, and if so what were their results?
I don't know, how would you even test that hypothesis? There's so many variables in someone's success in life that I don't see how you can design an experiment that ties it back to "they saw a black guy in a Spider-Man costume when they were 5".
 

XYZpdq

fbi most wanted sskealeaton
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As much as I'll poo-poo the concept I admit I totally mark out when there's a westerner in stupid Japanese capeshit shows like Japanese Power Rangers.

I love Evil Americans in non-USA wrestling promotions, too, though.

I think it's more the novelty of it than necessarily "representation" but it does catch my eye.
 

Benine Bovine

Won’t push you off a cliff. Can’t spell.
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I think it may be useful in shaping social norms, too a degree. One example would be maybe a religious, kinda sheltered person seeing a gay couple represented as normal everyday folk and then kind of internalizing that gay people are just people too, or a young kid seeing themselves in their hero and being able to mentally pinpoint a specific person, though fictional, to look up to as an idol like kids sometimes do.

Eh i dont know, sometimes its just nice for someone to be able to look at media and see someone they can relate to in specific ways and who they can look at and think could actually be them, and i can see how constantly seeing movies etc where people who look or act like you just dont exist can feel a bit alienating, but as for long lasting impact i think that would have to do more with kids, given that they are very impressionable and more likely to internalize the messages put on the screen than (most) adults.

That being said there is a difference between a slow social shift in cinema and an indie developer promising that their kickstarter funded game will totally change the world by portraying ambigiously brown people and someone in an undercut with bright clothes
As much as I'll poo-poo the concept I admit I totally mark out when there's a westerner in stupid Japanese capeshit shows like Japanese Power Rangers.

I love Evil Americans in non-USA wrestling promotions, too, though.

I think it's more the novelty of it than necessarily "representation" but it does catch my eye.
:powerlevel:On the other coin i fucking love when americans try to represent my country and it becomes a mishmash of broken sentences and stereotypes that are only ever relevant about 200 years ago. Bless.

I dont care if its not accurate or vaugely offensive its great
 

Fangsofjeff

♡ meow vey ♡
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SJWs keep posting things like this:
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But does anyone actually care about seeing people who look like them in media? Diversity is fun and all, but my favorite characters have always been either girls who look nothing like me or males. Aladdin was a big hit and I'm pretty sure it was consumed mainly by white kids, not arabs. Same with the Lion King, lions were not the primary audience.
 
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