Representation in the media -

Legoshi

18 year old grey wolf high school dropout
kiwifarms.net
Everyone wants to see racially diverse heros but nobody wants to see a well written diverse range of bad guys. Where's the love for my villains of color?
Depends, like when Hollywood wasn't allowed to portray any Chinese character as a villain because they were sucking up to the CCP for money and they cut off scenes of Hong Kong in movies to actors/actresses from Mainland China.
 

DtoDab

Patient Artist, Calmly watching
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I don't mind when a show has racial or sexual diversity because of course the world is made of different people, the most fragile minority being the individual and all that.

But it bothers me when the "diverse" cast just acts as complete stereotypes which people somehow applaud as if it was a virtue, looking solely at the most superficial aspects of diversity.

Some people still do suffer actual discrimination, so positive portraits and role models can help normalizing these people as just normal part of society, that is a positive thing in my opinion.

For ideological reasons I don't think media representation is THE most pressing social issue or something I think should be "fough" for, Hollywood does what gives them money, they don't actually give a shit about being good for people.

Diversity itself is not a strength, but rather just an attribute, it can be positive but it also can be annoying and out of touch, when you take a group of people and make a token out of them to parade your own self perceived virtue for example.
 

Zeke Von Genbu

Behold my Blade PANDORIA
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A honest take of what it is like being X minority and trying to explain your real and honest experiences can provide insight, especially if it is an uplifting tale of how they broke out of their situation can be something nice for people within those groups to see especially younger people. I think it is fair to say that everyone's life has its own varying set of challenges and sometimes those challenges are directly related to something uncontrollable like being black, being gay, etc. You can argue that those stories are worth exploring in some way through media, and how someone outside of that minority can't properly convey everything as well as someone within that minority. The challenge is to convey those experiences without it becoming effectively fan fiction of your life where your self insert MC is an underdog hero hated by everyone and has to fight back against THE MAN.

I think those types of things can have value and are worth exploring if they can be interesting to an audience, but solely a character being X or Y with some throwaway reason why they're X and Y is really boring and feels pandering and from the interactions I've had with woke people that seems to be "good enough" apparently.

I find forced pandering insulting because it feels like corporations are just using terms and words for pure profit without any form of artistic merit or value. They're effectively trying to subtly exploit people within those minorities as a cheap marketing trick. I don't see "representation" in that, I see "gimmicks" and/or "pointless lip service". Like you could just change someone's sexual orientation and nothing else and that'd be good enough for some people, and I just can't fathom that thought process whatsoever.
 
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SageInAllFields

Slip out the back before they know you were there
kiwifarms.net
The question is what is 'representation', I'm Muslim, I like seeing Muslims making shows about Muslim things, I think it makes sense to want to have your views represented. What I don't like is random kufs & 'liberal Muslims' sticking Muslims in things for woke points and making us suit their view of what Islam should be. As for race representation I think people caring that much about race is a disease.
 

JektheDumbass

kiwifarms.net
If done correctly, diversity is great. I love reading and watching stories from places very different from my own. But it can't be lazy. For example, a short story written from the point of view of a woman who lives in a country with strict Shariah law might be interesting. Reading a story about a nonbinary genderqueer pansexual muslim written by an upper-class white person who has only seen actual muslims on TV is not going to be worth my time.
 

Saffronette

🍖Meat Muncher🍖
True & Honest Fan
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Personally, I didn't find myself relating to a lot of black characters on TV shows when I was younger. I found myself identifying with characters that were non-human most of the time because they were often better written. I think representation in media can be done well if there's proper time and thought put into it. However...
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What people essentially want in modern shows is tokenism disguised as diversity. Which often leads to forgettable characters and blatant stereotypes.
 

Malagor the dank omen

Nuttier than 100 herds of goats
kiwifarms.net
The question is what is 'representation', I'm Muslim, I like seeing Muslims making shows about Muslim things, I think it makes sense to want to have your views represented. What I don't like is random kufs & 'liberal Muslims' sticking Muslims in things for woke points and making us suit their view of what Islam should be.
For example, a short story written from the point of view of a woman who lives in a country with strict Shariah law might be interesting
This is one of the reasons i came to love Iranian films. They are hard to find but they are absolutely amazing in the terms of plot and characters, as well as seeing a culture that differs from your own but you can relate because the characters are still human and you see them as being people that you can relate to in a much different setting. A movie i particularly liked was "Until the end of Time", which hit really close to me and i always recommend for the feels.
A honest take of what it is like being X minority and trying to explain your real and honest experiences can provide insight, especially if it is an uplifting tale of how they broke out of their situation can be something nice for people within those groups to see especially younger people. I think it is fair to say that everyone's life has its own varying set of challenges and sometimes those challenges are directly related to something uncontrollable like being black, being gay, etc. You can argue that those stories are worth exploring in some way through media, and how someone outside of that minority can't properly convey everything as well as someone within that minority. The challenge is to convey those experiences without it becoming effectively fan fiction of your life where your self insert MC is an underdog hero hated by everyone and has to fight back against THE MAN.
Inevitably, there will always be a little bit of the author in his works and his characters no matter what. The problem is how much of the author is in the character. Self inserts usually come from novel writers who are inexperienced at creating characters or people who cannot put themselves in other's people shoes, like many SJWs today are. They are self centered in almost every facet of their lives and that extends also to their creative process, creating characters that are nothing but a carbon copy of the author since the author just wants to live a power fantasy.

But for me the problem is that self inserts are usually the Mary Sue/Gary Stu type of character: flawless in every sense, extremely apt at everything, liked by the good guys and only hated by the bad guys. And it's just a proxy for the author fantasy, which it's the lamest thing ever to do (which i will admit i did in my past). A character must have flaws to overcome, lessons to learn, tribulations to get over with. The tale must be one of adventure as well as personal growth.
 

TitanWest

Based Penguin Guy
kiwifarms.net
It's not about making an enjoyable product.

Anti-whites have a strong antipathy towards white people so they want them removed from positions of power and from mainstream culture. A few whites who submit and support things like BLM will be spared for now. Anti-whites also want white people ethnically replaced in all Western countries which is why they love Open Borders (But mostly just for The West).

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Fandom Trash

Cutest Dumpster Cat around
kiwifarms.net
Lately I have been dabbling a bit in writing original stories for fun, and I have been checking out writing forums and reddit (yes, I know) for tips on ideas on how to plot my stories and noticing an increase of writers who are now very, very concern about adding diversity into their stories.

Which I understand, but a lot of new writers seem pretty scared of branching into such unknown territories, often asking how to write female characters properly or if their black character is an HONEST and TRUE person, and I'm like, "Who cares?"

So long as you make their personalities your number one priority, then the rest (race, sexuality, age, etc) will quickly follow. But I don't blame writers from being scared. It seems like everyday another writer is dragged through the dirt for not producing enough diversity in their story or didn't properly consult a REAL black, asian, muslim, etc person on how their characters should act. Its annoying and a scary thing to witness for anyone who just wants to write a fun, awesome story for people to enjoy.

Then you have writers (cough, J.K, cough, Riordan) who add diversity for the sake of it and not because they find it particularly interesting.

Its a fine balance every writer ends up threading, and I just hope that eventually there will be time where a kid could go into a bookstore and find a wide range of interesting books to read and some of them just so happens to have some characters that look just like them and are cool, fun people to read about.
 

Buffy the SJW slayer

kiwifarms.net
I have no issues with media being more inclusive globally. I think it's important for people to be represented in forms of media. HOWEVER, this only seems to be pushed in the West. Okay, the West is more multicultural, but no-one is asking KPop bands to add in a gay black dwarf or Bollywood to feature an autistic aboriginal woman. I also think there's the real risk that when you add diversity for diversity's sake you end up diluting your purpose and alienating everyone.

Moonlight was an example of a diverse film in that it was a black American story. I'm sure someone would still watch it and complain that it didn't feature an Indian, or an obese person or someone in a wheelchair. Then it just becomes an exercise in adding in as many types of people as you can in a soup that makes no sense. Some worlds/works of fiction suit this better, for example fantasy, sci-fi, but in other storytelling it rings false and takes you out of the story.
 

TitanWest

Based Penguin Guy
kiwifarms.net
I have no issues with media being more inclusive globally. I think it's important for people to be represented in forms of media. HOWEVER, this only seems to be pushed in the West. Okay, the West is more multicultural, but no-one is asking KPop bands to add in a gay black dwarf or Bollywood to feature an autistic aboriginal woman. I also think there's the real risk that when you add diversity for diversity's sake you end up diluting your purpose and alienating everyone.
It's not about including everyone. It's about excluding people like you. They're not pro-black as much as they're anti-white. They WANT to make white people feel alienated because they hate white people. That's why they always put a spotlight on white people being "racist" and ignore others or give them a slap on the wrist. That's why they portray white characters as bad and nonwhite characters as good more often than not.

Moonlight was an example of a diverse film in that it was a black American story. I'm sure someone would still watch it and complain that it didn't feature an Indian, or an obese person or someone in a wheelchair. Then it just becomes an exercise in adding in as many types of people as you can in a soup that makes no sense. Some worlds/works of fiction suit this better, for example fantasy, sci-fi, but in other storytelling it rings false and takes you out of the story.
No one complained about Moonlight because it didn't have white people in it. Diversity is about anti-whiteness. White women and white LGBT are only lumped in to pit them against the "straight white males".
 
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