Right-wing apathy - I just wanna grill, dammit!

Erika Furudo

Me an intellectual 🎶
kiwifarms.net
The biggest problem with the Right and Conservatism as a whole is not apathy, it's not energy, it's not collective power, and frankly, it's not anything actually listed in the OP. The biggest problem is money. Where the money is going. Who is being allowed to have it, and when.

In the United States, Millennials, as a group, own 3% of the wealth. The rest of it is going to Wall Street cocksuckers.

People are not conservative when they have nothing to conserve and, frankly, nothing to lose. Nothing makes someone into a dedicated conservative faster than attaining a steady and stable upper-middle-class lifestyle, and that's only possible if people are paid a decent wage.

The ones who set the political narrative in the US are the people who decide that your wages should be peanuts, so that you become restless and radicalized.

Meanwhile, when right-wing and conservative projects attempt to seek funding, even crowdfunding, they are deplatformed and debanked. Remember when people tried making a right-wing Patreon alternative? That lasted all of a few minutes. Hatreon was shut down when Visa refused to tender their payments and Digital Ocean canceled their hosting.

If you want power, you need money. If you want recruits, you need money. If you want conservative, stable, trad families, they need to be paid more than subsistence wages. Money, money, money.
I genuinely respectfully disagree.
If your view is true, why the fuck is it the middle class are the biggest liberal cucks? Surely they would be more right wing that the problematic, "racist" working class who are generally more against mass migration pushing wages down. In places like Cali you will see people vote blue, then up sticks and leave because they have the luxury of being able to just drop everything and move. You also see more wealthy urban areas vote blue compared to more rural places.

People aren't conservative when they feel they can do anything with no consequence. The middle class give no fucks about mass migration because they live in gated communities and their jobs aren't impacted. Can't wait to see them get fucked after lockdown when all the stay at home office jobs get sent to India. Try seeing them push their vegan bullshit when their income evaporates and they have to choose between cheap, nutritional chicken vs expensive vegan shit. Even if you gave liberals more money they would just squander it on funko pops and weed.
 

Drain Todger

Unhinged Doomsayer
True & Honest Fan
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There is a multitude of reasons but I think a lot of it comes down to:

-Big corporations are run by commiejews who support the far left.
-Ditto for media, thus getting the word out is heavily biased for the left.
-Fundies are dumb ass motherfuckers.
-The obsession with being "proper and respectful" .

But the biggest problem is that the right doesn't embrace its fringe. The left does and gains a fanatical army. Maybe not the biggest, nor the smartest, but certainly loud and energetic.
However since WW2 ended, the right has been hamstrung and debilitated.
The important thing to understand is that the neoliberals are neither left-wing nor right-wing. They are centrists. They only believe in money and in the power of consumerism and global economic integration. Why do people think that left-wing class struggles have been guided into identity politics bullshit instead? It's because the class struggle actually stands to affect the bottom line of the megacorps.

1489955757896.jpg


Everything is about crushing populist resistance to stagnant wages and the declining political power of working-class people, and installing a managerial neofeudalist state in the place of democracy. Leftists who have been indoctrinated in identity politics are allies of convenience for these people. Neoliberals and corpos despise them, but will use them as attack dogs nonetheless.

It's not "the Left embracing its fringe". It's the Center using the Left as human shields.
 

DumbDude42

kiwifarms.net
You should know by basic observation that left-wing boycotts tend to be far more effective than right-wing ones. But why is that exactly?
because the left has full coverage and support from mass media while the right is their enemy.

you start some leftist activist project? they give you free PR and exposure, and help spread your message to the masses free of charge.
you try right wing activism? they'll humiliate and degrade you, tear your reputation to pieces. you become toxic and untouchable to polite society.
 

Drain Todger

Unhinged Doomsayer
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I genuinely respectfully disagree.
If your view is true, why the fuck is it the middle class are the biggest liberal cucks? Surely they would be more right wing that the problematic, "racist" working class who are generally more against mass migration pushing wages down. In places like Cali you will see people vote blue, then up sticks and leave because they have the luxury of being able to just drop everything and move. You also see more wealthy urban areas vote blue compared to more rural places.

People aren't conservative when they feel they can do anything with no consequence. The middle class give no fucks about mass migration because they live in gated communities and their jobs aren't impacted. Can't wait to see them get fucked after lockdown when all the stay at home office jobs get sent to India. Try seeing them push their vegan bullshit when their income evaporates and they have to choose between cheap, nutritional chicken vs expensive vegan shit. Even if you gave liberals more money they would just squander it on funko pops and weed.
The middle class have been increasingly captured by liberalism because the middle class has been deliberately shifted away from the trades and towards urban managerialism. It is important not to mix up white-collar professionals who make $100k a year with plumbers who make $100k a year.

There is another part to this, aside from money, and it's the politicization of the educational system.




If a conservative, middle-class family sends their kids to one of these colleges, hoping to get them in the managerial class, then their kids won't share their family's values for very long.

Frankly, American colleges are graduating far too many lawyers, managers, bean-counters, and journalists. People who produce very little of any real value.

The Professional-Managerial Class, as they're called, are a class made up of millions upon millions of ornamental, useless people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional–managerial_class


They're just kind of "there". They don't do anything useful. They commute. They waste fossil fuel. They staff our offices to give them the appearance that actual work is being done. They're paid lucratively to be living ornamentation. When asked what it is they do for a living, half of them cannot even tell you what it is or why it's useful.


Think about all the lost hours of productivity. Think about where the US GDP would be if we were raising armies of technicians, engineers, draftsmen, architects, and scientists. This is economic sabotage.
 

Lone MacReady

Death's Head QT
kiwifarms.net
Til someone actually covers the ongoing Chinese COLONIZATION of Wakandan ass - All Western Whiteys get a "Racism" (whatever that means nowadays) free pass.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
I actually hate this fucking theory with a passion, because I'm always coming at it from the opposite direction. I'm a diehard nihilist and the idea of participating in either wing of politics is flat out offensive to me; but right-wingers will ceaselessly use this logic to try and "call me out" as someone who is right-wing, but refuses to participate because I'm apathetic. No, asshole, I became apathetic because I hated the situation from the start, and I hate your fucking guilty party just as much as I hate the left wing. Stop trying to "inspire" me and fuck off.

There is an entire subgroup of political apathetics forming rapidly in this country and I can tell you first hand that they exist because neither side in this situation is appealing at all. Neither party actually has anything to offer to somebody undecided, both simply use a With Us or Against Us mentality which everybody here knows is not a way to engage with people. If you're not left wing, then you're an evil racist neonazi that hates women, and if you're not right wing, then you're an apathetic cuck degenerate who is just standing by while the globohomos lay waste to society!

If you are apathetic, you are none of these things. There's nothing inherently noble or superior about apathy, but that doesn't mean that any of the shit sandwiches that qualify as political ideologies in the Current Year are actually worth your time. The first and only thing you should be asking when some sleazeball with a party button on comes knocking is "What's in it for me?" and you should tell them to fuck right off the minute they try to appeal to any of your finer qualities that they most certainly lack.
 

Drain Todger

Unhinged Doomsayer
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
If you're not left wing, then you're an evil racist neonazi that hates women, and if you're not right wing, then you're an apathetic cuck degenerate who is just standing by while the globohomos lay waste to society!
Guiding people along certain extremist lines is very useful for the powers-that-be. If you suspect that you are being manipulated by propaganda, then you are very likely correct. There is nothing more threatening to the parasitic extractor class than for working people to recognize their own shared struggle and join forces. From the perspective of the Left, the right-wingers are hateful white supremacists and want to burn gays and defenestrate transgender people, and if left unchecked, they'll bring about a new Nazi Germany. From the perspective of the Right, the left-wingers are sexual deviants, baby-killers, and lazy do-nothings with zero life skills who want hedonism in place of work, and if left unchecked, they'll bring about a new Weimar Republic. Note the emphasis on extreme polarization and intractable political differences.

When people talk about how the 9-to-5 is dreary and soulless, how no one can afford a home, how we're all increasingly up to our eyeballs in debt, how our foreign policy is insane and our public works are falling apart, the conversation is inevitably steered away from those things and back onto an approved set of hot-button issues that are intrinsically polarizing and yet do not threaten the ambitions of the extractor class; race, gender, sexuality, sexual liberation, gay marriage, et cetera. In other words, things that have nothing to do with money, wages, debts, labor, pensions, education, the economy and the balance of jobs in general, or any foreign or domestic policy of real-world importance or impact.

From the perspective of the extractor class, the latter things are far too important and too technical to be the public's business. It is difficult to comprehend the level of elitism we are dealing with until you've actually spoken with these sorts of people, as I have. They think you are literally too stupid to understand why they do the things that they do. They think that it's entirely valid politics to deceive, manipulate, and brainwash ordinary people into doing what their "betters" want them to do, and they use people's lemming-like behavior as evidence of their need to be ruled in this manner.

It really is deeply appalling, what the elites think of us.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
It really is deeply appalling, what the elites think of us.
Most people are well aware of that part at least. I was more railing against the regular people you meet who have decided to take a side or let themselves be manipulated, then have the gall to call out other people for not participating in a clearly broken system. A sleazebag looking to headhunt is easy to see and avoid. An annoying neighbor or shitty relative who refuses to accept that I think voting is a waste of time is considerably more annoying and harder to get rid of.
 
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NevskyProspekt

kiwifarms.net
I can discuss, I don't care, even if I agree that wasting time in useless debates is not worth it.
Whether they effectively want to kill us or not, this is what their agenda is leading to anyway. Demography is the key word. Whites are being replaced everywhere.
Whites' numbers wouldn't be proportionally shrinking in many places if they actually decided to have children, or at least more than two of them. It's like how some Afrikaners during the apartheid era complained about how they were an ever-shrinking minority proportionate to the other ethnic groups in the country while at the same time actively importing massive amounts of cheap labor from elsewhere in southern Africa (because they couldn't be bothered to mine their own gold) and actively reducing their own birthrates. One of the main arguments you see in places like Germany for importing migrants - however flawed this argument is - is the lack of babymaking by the local citizenry, who then make a surprised Pikachu face when their proportion of the population keeps shrinking, and their solution is anything but having more stable families with children. I definitely tend more to the right of the political spectrum but that's one thing that always mystifies me about the more demographic-minded types.
 

Schway

kiwifarms.net
One of the main arguments you see in places like Germany for importing migrants - however flawed this argument is - is the lack of babymaking by the local citizenry, who then make a surprised Pikachu face when their proportion of the population keeps shrinking, and their solution is anything but having more stable families with children. I definitely tend more to the right of the political spectrum but that's one thing that always mystifies me about the more demographic-minded types.

I don't get what you mean exactly. I've never seen anyone(right-wing) interested in demographics advocate against having stable families with more kids, if anything most of them do advocate that. It's just that they also advocate other, more immediate solutions as well. When you mix a small amount of a potent poison with water, you need a shit-ton more water to dilute it back to where it's drinkable again. It's much easier to just make sure less poison gets into the water. It's the same here, outbreeding mass-migration of the third world that also has much higher birthrates than you isn't feasible.

As far as the "we need more workers" argument. I'm not convinced. The optimal amount of people we need in Western countries seems to change based on the argument. If we need to save the whales and stop chipmunks from blowing their brains out then we need way less, and white people need to stop having so much god dam sex, here's 7 reasons why a dildo is better than a man and having cats is better than having kids. On the other hand like you pointed out they'll often use "We need more workers" as an argument to let more immigrants in. The population stuff is just an excuse.

I don't really agree with the view of some people in this thread that economics are the primary concern/driver. I think it's a means to an end in a way, and that it's the distraction rather than the other way around. I keep hearing the "Left-wing and Right-wing extremists are useful to the system! They want them fighting each other and distracting people from the real issues" and while I think there is some sliver of truth there I think that's true for all positions. The system is very good at using just about any political position to its benefit as much as possible, they are nice goody bags of villains and heroes to pull out as necessary.

That being said, it's not exactly that these "political extremists" are treated equally. The far left-wing gets significantly more support, and even their worse are just seen as naïve there is no real institutional power going after them. The same is not true for the far right-wing, they are destroyed at every corner and hated even by other right-wingers who see them as a bullseye for the system that might end up on the head of your milquetoast free-market conservative. Not to mention, the people mostly concerned with cultural issues are seen as more extreme than those mostly concerned by economics from what I can tell.

Just from that you can see which one is harder for the system to use, which one gets the leash and which one gets the bullet. The culture war isn't a distraction. Culture, norms, religion, history ect. was what kept this kind of thing from happening. And it is also the most likely thing to stop/reverse aspects of it, that makes it a priority over economy to me. By stripping a man of all these things you're left with an atomized individual desperate for some kind of identity, which you can then design, sell and day-one ship to him.
 

Emperor Julian

kiwifarms.net
Conservatism tends to thrive when it has a coherant platform of moderate social reforms in reaction to the changing world designed to protect and stablize society. EG: the Sir roberts Peels civil reforms of the 19th century. Modern US conservatism doesnt really do this anymore, so it's kinda fucked since shitting on the liberals without meaningful proposals can only really make the population apathetic.
 

MelloYello

kiwifarms.net
They are afraid to lose what they already have. Their money, their comfort. They wish things would stay more or less this way, or the way they were when they were younger, even if they were already flawed.
It's easier to destroy than to preserve or create. That's why so many losers flock to particularly destructive forms of leftism.
Left-leaning ideologues have this bizarre concept of neverending progress, in some cases, "permanent revolution".
I suppose that could work out in a constructive manner, to a point. It rarely does.

Likewise, the right could potentially make gains by rallying against the contemporary system, with the premise of a right-wing revolution or restoration.
The conservative establishment won't personally benefit from rocking the boat, though. So, good luck with that.
 

Odnovo

kiwifarms.net
I really do not feel that the left has popular support among the general populace anymore (if it ever did), although it definitely has support from the establishment. As others have mentioned in this thread, the left has been co-opted and neutered by the elite and is now utilized as a tool to carry out its own interests by proxy (riots in the cities that will destroy privately owned businesses and lower property values, targeted harassment of politicians and attorneys who oppose the neoliberal order or its policies, etc.); the elite has not bothered to do as such towards the right since there is almost no feasible way that they can. Perhaps if religion was still as powerful among the Western world as it once was, they might have gone that route with those who are on the right, but since even most right-wingers are relatively secular today there isn't either much of a way for them to do so, or a reason for that matter.

In any case, you aren't going to see any "fighting back" from the right, or among a united left and right against the elite for that matter, because "fighting back" requires group cohesion and trust among such groups, and you really don't even find that within either the left or the right due to the fact that it is kind of hard to have a significant amount of that among large populations of people, let alone the various bullshit going on.
 

PaleTay

kiwifarms.net
I genuinely respectfully disagree.
If your view is true, why the fuck is it the middle class are the biggest liberal cucks? Surely they would be more right wing that the problematic, "racist" working class who are generally more against mass migration pushing wages down. In places like Cali you will see people vote blue, then up sticks and leave because they have the luxury of being able to just drop everything and move. You also see more wealthy urban areas vote blue compared to more rural places.

People aren't conservative when they feel they can do anything with no consequence. The middle class give no fucks about mass migration because they live in gated communities and their jobs aren't impacted. Can't wait to see them get fucked after lockdown when all the stay at home office jobs get sent to India. Try seeing them push their vegan bullshit when their income evaporates and they have to choose between cheap, nutritional chicken vs expensive vegan shit. Even if you gave liberals more money they would just squander it on funko pops and weed.
Conservatives are willing to give up ground to make people happy, and particularly the middle class conservatives. They want to find common ground with the radical liberal groups and therefore allowed themselves to be dragged further and further to the left.

Also, women, they want families and girlfriends and a lot will just go along with whatever social justice cause their girlfriend/wife believes in until they've internalized it or at the very least won't oppose it.
 

Alkaline Cab

kiwifarms.net
Most people, regardless of their partisan alignment, don't really care about politics.
Why would they? It's notorious as a friend killer. People (with stable jobs) don't have time to browse Twitter all day. (Doesn't help that more conservatives DO have stable jobs to begin with)
People joining in on the BLM bandwagon just to tweet about it for a week aren't doing so much more than literally grilling. (i.e "slacktivism")

The difference is that liberal movements are able to get cheap, easy, and quick normie support with support of the news + big tech. The latter two (along with dedicated activists and lobbyers) make liberal movements successful. Meanwhile, more often than not, conservative protests and activists are deemed "alt-right" or the buzzword of the week, and are actively deplatformed by normies/tech/banks/news/etc. as a result. Most loud voices visible are liberal, therefore it seems like most conservatives are silent as a result.

Edit: There's no solution. Progressives have been making, well, "progress" for all of American history, and it's not gonna stop. With support of big tech / astroturf / news / government , there's nothing you can really do except laugh while you can (or glow). You can hope that normal people draw a line and get tired of neolib shit - but North Korea's residents are tired of Kim, are they not?
 
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jje100010001

kiwifarms.net
Problem 1: Modernity has lead to a 'cult of progression', where 'progress' (whatever form it may take) is inherently good, and conservation of values bad. This has formed the basis of both conservatism and liberal beliefs in the last 80 years or so (first with the conservative 'progress' during the 50s onwards that resulted in the corporatization of the national economy, and then the liberal 'progress' that has been tearing down the American belief system from the 70s onwards). This rapid-fire change has unmoored the US and its people.

Problem 2: The majority of the normie right to a degree believes in America and its institutions, while the left has essentially spent the last century learning how to infiltrate and subvert institutions from the inside out. Likewise, the left operates via a 'no enemies to the left' M.O., while the right is constantly looking over its shoulders and engaging in circular firing squads to avoid any sort of 'facist' connotations (the left don't care if you call them communists). Those in power don't really care, and use the right and left selectively to increase their own power (McConnell, RINOs, Pelosi, Schumer).

Problem 3: Life is still too comfortable and hedonistic, and the majority of people prioritize stability over justice. Cancellation is a real threat to the normies not autistic enough to reveal their power levels. As such, most people try to disengage and avoid politics in their lives (except for those rich or radical enough to engage in it).

There's no real solution until the scales fall from people's eyes and they see the wasteland for what it is- but it is happening as mainstream trust in the government, the media, and the military has been systematically demolished throughout the last two decades or so- accelerating during the Trump Presidency. The problem now is that people are waking up just as the snake's almost wound up around them- the inoculated classes of progressive millennials have finally ascended to their positions in both the federal government & the corporations.

I really do not feel that the left has popular support among the general populace anymore (if it ever did), although it definitely has support from the establishment. As others have mentioned in this thread, the left has been co-opted and neutered by the elite and is now utilized as a tool to carry out its own interests by proxy (riots in the cities that will destroy privately owned businesses and lower property values, targeted harassment of politicians and attorneys who oppose the neoliberal order or its policies, etc.); the elite has not bothered to do as such towards the right since there is almost no feasible way that they can. Perhaps if religion was still as powerful among the Western world as it once was, they might have gone that route with those who are on the right, but since even most right-wingers are relatively secular today there isn't either much of a way for them to do so, or a reason for that matter.
Reposting this from another thread, but an interesting take on this:
1617433456237.png


It's easier to destroy than to preserve or create. That's why so many losers flock to particularly destructive forms of leftism.
Left-leaning ideologues have this bizarre concept of neverending progress, in some cases, "permanent revolution".
I suppose that could work out in a constructive manner, to a point. It rarely does.

Likewise, the right could potentially make gains by rallying against the contemporary system, with the premise of a right-wing revolution or restoration.
The conservative establishment won't personally benefit from rocking the boat, though. So, good luck with that.
I think a promising route out is emphasizing localism over top-down systems.
 
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XYZpdq

fbi most wanted sskealeaton
True & Honest Fan
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I recall once I went with nerd buddies to the Palm Beach County protests in front of the courthouse around Bush v Gore to bring "AUSTIN 3:16" signs and otherwise heckle the circumstances in general.
at one point the conservatives (such as they were) packed things up and pointed out to the other team "we have to go to work tomorrow, you guys should try it some time"
that's always been and underlying issue, there's a lot of motivated conservatives but they sorta have responsibilities and lives and stuff
 
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