So to avoid us being raped by torpedos this time around, if we even go to war with the US which we should just bully England and Germany. We should get some good ASW so we don’t get stopped on by defective torps.
Let's Sperg Rule the Waves II: Kiwis at Sea - From Pre Dreadnoughts to the Missile Age, Something is Always Bloody Wrong With Your Ships Today
- Thread starter Techpriest
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Sister services, email, and search will continue to be negatively effected by the attacks. I made a thread to talk about it, if you're into networking.
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
Good ASW requires escorts. I have no idea how this game works, but I assume you create escort ships then assign them to that role and it affects the convoy report?
Only issue with that is you face a RL dilemma the Japanese had: The Pacific is huge with tons of islands needing supplies. That requires lots of convoy escorts, but Japan wasn't known for being able to produce a fuck-load amount of ships, at least compared to the US. You also need those screens for your fleets.
I assume on the other hand, the US can just spam the fuck out of escorts.
Only issue with that is you face a RL dilemma the Japanese had: The Pacific is huge with tons of islands needing supplies. That requires lots of convoy escorts, but Japan wasn't known for being able to produce a fuck-load amount of ships, at least compared to the US. You also need those screens for your fleets.
I assume on the other hand, the US can just spam the fuck out of escorts.
Il
Essentially, there’s two kinds of ships made for this sort of work - Corvettes and Destroyers. Corvettes are cheap and efficient for minimal tonnage, while freeing up destroyers. I usually build some while keeping my older destroyers around for ASW work.
You assign ships you have to trade protection. This represents a combination of coastal patrols, ASW work, and convoy protection, along with minesweeping and laying.
Essentially, there’s two kinds of ships made for this sort of work - Corvettes and Destroyers. Corvettes are cheap and efficient for minimal tonnage, while freeing up destroyers. I usually build some while keeping my older destroyers around for ASW work.
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
Do you plan on getting into a full blown Pacific War? It'd be interesting to see how the AI handles that. My only experience with AI and grand naval combat is HOI, where the AI is notorious for shitting up large naval wars.
Also from the results of your last game, does the AI ever get into confrontations between themselves? Looks like the world was super quiet relative to you and Italy.
The game doesn’t support code for that, sadly. If someone makes an autoresolver for this game, I’d make a tension tracker between AI and randomly they’d go to war with one another for a certain amount of time, compile war score, and exchange small territories between one another depending on who “won” in the time limit
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
Damn, that's kind of a bummer. Though it seems you get more funding during war? Is it enough to let you keep up with nations that have been allowed to build up in peace?
The Canal is now in business.
Both are good techs.
We also get this at the turn of the year. I'll put as much funding as I can into it.
Tension reduction across the board wouldn't be the worst.
Aaaaaaagh!
I'm losing a battleship out of this, which really sucks. Everyone is losing capitals from this one, but it isn't as restrictive as it could be. It's also only for five years.
The British also have this wonderful tech now that I'll take.
I design myself a god damned monster of an armored cruiser. 28 knots, 10 inch guns, 6 inches of armor, and a cost to match. She'll do fine against other armored cruisers. Hell, I'll be able to use her into the 30's if I refit her - her deck armor is very good.
Not much to do there.
To accommodate the treaty (and parliament wanting another ship) I design this. She's not perfect, but she'll do. Her armor is thinner than my other battleships, but she's got more guns. That's a trade I'm willing to make.
Hahaha, suck it france.
So we're at war now, and that treaty I signed two months ago is done. So the Sagami is no longer relevant. Oh well. She's tonnage.
The initial sneak attack is once again, at night. My destroyers are in position, and I've got a few cruisers ready to go.
We're off to the races.
Two torpedo hits. One of their cruisers heads straight for port.
One of my DD's, Shiokaze is on fire. It's not the worst situation but it isn't great. She goes down pretty soon.
I blow up a 6 inch battery too, as I sail my battleships and a few light cruisers into the bay.
Not every single french heavy cruiser has headed back into port, so I'm pounding the fuck out of them while I can. My light cruiser also hits one with a torpedo, so we're on three hits. I skeddadle after doing my damage.
Shimakaze and crew get torpedoed by a french DD that yeets its way out of the dark and nails her.
This isn't a great victory or anything, but we've killed a light cruiser, and a corvette the French were packing. Worth it? I'd say so.
I commission an improved design now that the treaty is out of the way. She's more expensive and more time consuming than the Sagami, so I'll put her down instead. She's better in every way.
The British government has implemented their blockade. France is now at the mercy of the Royal Navy. Or it was for a month. The French move more ships home.
They're better than 12 inchers. But I really need at least 14 inch guns.
The blockade is back on.
While I have a home grown design, I'm also ordering a foreign battleship. It'll be expensive as hell, but she's got all or nothing armor, immensely good guns, and very very good speed. She's closer to a battlecruiser than a battleship.
This is a good tech. I'm glad to have gotten it now - even if I'd have liked better gun techs.
The French throw in the towel after half a year.
I take a treaty port, and some territory in the South Pacific. I don't have enough to take any more.
All in all, the territorial additions aren't worth much, but they are a good starting point for Japanese control. The port in China also gives me the range I need to invade North Vietnam directly the next time we're at war with the French.
Sadly, I'm not going to be able to build that awesome battleship I showed earlier. In the aftermath of a war, budget cuts are inevitable, and painful.
I want and need budget.
Private ship building has been picking up a lot of the slack I've been facing, since I can't always afford to upgrade my docks.
WE'RE IN THE MONEY BOYS! Oil eventually becomes available to just around everyone in the late 20's. For right now though, it's not something I can use. I'll still take it.
I have a lot of prestige for this point in the game, so budget is my main concern.
This is a major breakthrough - better light cruiser designs are now possible.
This is also pretty big. I can put naval aviation bases down and fill them with airplanes.
With that in mind, I create a simple seaplane tender. She can only carry 4 of them, but she's got good speed and she's rather cheap for her tonnage. Of course next turn my spies steal the improved seaplane carrier tech from the brits, rendering her obsolete.
Another development that renders the Suwo pretty useless. I'll still want to wait for 14 inch guns before building any newer ships.
We've got trouble in China, so I'll send a big boat. Prestige, budget, and tensions. Just what I want.
Oof, that's not the best tension with GB.
Budget and prestige, at the cost of tensions with the US. I'll take it.
Very good - I'll reduce tensions and gain prestige.
Also, I get my hands on this wonderful tech. I don't know if I'll use triple turrets yet, but I'll keep them in mind.
Tensions with the Russians are rather low. I'll raise them.
It's simple, I risk prestige but I've got 48 right now.
It doesn't end in the best way possible, but it does reduce my tensions with the British. The end of the year brings some more sort of welcome news.
Next post might be a bit delayed. I’ve got a busy backend of the week this week.
Translation: He's playing even more Three Kingdoms: Total War and wants to see the weird things it will spew out of a propaganda piece made by the Ming Dynasty.
I think I've hit the in thread image limit, or something. Curious.
I think it's the DDOS. If there's a thread image limit, no way (say) Jake Alley's thread doesn't hit it first.
Aw what! This is my favorite thread. Damn you DDOS!
Good news, the images seem to be working again.
This is a gift at the start of any war, but it isn't as useful as I'd like. Maybe I should make some 13 inch gunned Battlecruiser designs?
They're raiding me, which isn't fun. Also those submarines are out of my ASW range. Which sucks.
Big daddy GB is helping out though. We're starting up our blockade.
The next month, we see more actions from GB.
I'll accept it. They shouldn't have anything good in the area -
Shit shit shit TURN AROUND! The Tokiwa takes a 12 inch hit right into her engine room, but she's able to limp back to port.
My destroyers on AI control end up doing a death or glory run on the bastard, and land a torpedo hit.
And then another. I lose one of my starting Light Cruisers to a lucky torpedo hit from a german DD. But I hit the Von Der Tann twice, so I'll consider it a victory. My destroyer squadron is out of torpedoes, so I send them home. Hopefully, this is enough damage to sink the enemy battlecruiser.
Sadly, it isn't. But I did sink that destroyer, and they didn't destroy my bombardment target. I'll take the victory.
I'm ordering a new DD class too - she's got 3 5 inch guns and two triple torpedo mounts. She'll do a decent job, with a 30 knot speed. Not the fastest, but faster than pretty much anything else with that kind of firepower.
The Germans cry uncle after a few months. Big Daddy Britain really is a game changer.
Sadly, I can't take Java. But I can clear out the rest of the German possessions in the south pacific and southeast asia.
That's a pretty vast, if not amazing, Pacific empire.
Preheaters pop - they will turn our torpedoes into even more of a danger.
And my two battleships under construction are now useless. I'll finish the one with only 4 months left, but otherwise I'm going to ditch the Suwo class. I'll build a new class as soon as I can. I can also probably make some OK Kongo's now too!
This just confirms it.
Meet the Aki. She's 38,000 tons, and carries with her 8 14 inch guns in 4 dual turrets. She goes 25 knots, and has a belt armor of 13 inches, and a deck of 5 inches. She's oil powered, a first for the Japanese fleet, and can resist her own guns beyond 10,000 yards away. With director firing and all or nothing armor, she's quite a beast. The main problem? Torpedo protection. I don't have any torpedo protection yet whatsoever. She's also expensive and will take 3 years to complete. She's still a massive improvement over anything in the current fleet. I'm only taking one of her.
Our alliance with GB has ended, and tensions are rising up and up. I'm totally fine with taking budget and prestige.
Good news! We shouldn't have to worry about future designs taking as long to construct, or being quite as expensive.
We also develop SAP. SAP is rather good for certain gun calibers - the higher the better. I'll have the 7 to 10 inch guns carry more of this than standard HE. Most of the targets they'll be shooting at don't need true AP to penetrate, and the extra damage of the SAP will be handy.
I want the rest of indo china at some point. More tension with the French will be helpful.
I'm also totally down with more tension with the Russians. Bring it.
I come up with a battlecruiser design too. She's well armored for a battle cruiser, with 4 inches of deck and 12.5 on her turrets. With 14 inch guns and a speed of 29 knots, she's also going to remain relevant for the next few decades. Her cost isn't what I'd consider amazing, but future refits to add in more AA will be welcome. She also has a pair of seaplanes she can launch, a handy addition.
The british are dealing with a handful of rebellions.
Which they soon crush in Ireland.
The Kiwis though are more tenacious.
My destroyer forces are also now obsolete. Such is life in Japan.
War has also broken out, finally.
The plan is a sneak attack on Port Arthur. Apparently our boys on I-8 have decided that they're going to pull a USS Barb or some crazy action like that.
A horde of destroyers rushes in.
We hit several ships with volleys of torpedoes, a welcome change. One is stopped by a torpedo net.
I run my battle line in close, so they can unleash hell.
One of my battleships is nailed by a torpedo. It's an old ship, so I really don't care. We've certainly woken the hornets nest though. As dawn rises, my other battleship takes a torpedo hit. She's sinking, along with an older light cruiser. Again, I don't care as much.
We've killed their battlecruiser.
We nailed a destroyer with a torpedo.
A random shot from a coastal battery destroys my seaplane carrier. Again, I don't care. Seaplane carriers are pretty trash.
Ahahahaha! I head home after this. No need to risk anything more. I lost another light cruiser and a destroyer, both old and rather useless. Again, I don't really care about that.
In exchange I blew the shit out of the Russian fleet here. Not a perfect victory, but it's better than the alternatives. I've got ships in the pipeline to replace losses. The Russians don't have anything that can really match even the Suwo.
Damn right that's a major victory.
Torpedoes get even deadlier. I desperately need torpedo protection. The Russians are declining battle again and again.
We're going to take everything we can from them. The Russians can only produce token resistance efforts.
That's everything I really want out of this war.
Speaking of torpedo protection, I finally get it.
I call for peace a few months later. My budget is crying a bit but I'm totally fine with it. I'll get new designs out ASAP.
Another big weight saver.
September 1923 brings some good news though.
So does the start of 1924.
And the middle of it. Holy shit. That's a big damn upgrade. Quality 0 16 inch guns are monstrous.
Towards the end, we also get a pretty great tech for seaplane use. Catapults for seaplanes means my next few designs will be far superior when compared to previous ones.
It's pretty quiet as I wait for my other battleships and my battlecruiser to finish building. I get 18 inch guns researched, which will be nice in the future, if I get better quality ones.
Oh, so I'm going to need to build new destroyers soon too.
This is also welcome. I'll have to design some battleships or light cruisers with this in mind in the future.
I said NOTHING BINDING. Motherfucking diplomats. It's alright though - it means I'll be able to focus more on lighter combatants. I really, REALLY need to upgrade my Destroyer fleet, and get some actually modern heavy cruisers into production.
A new destroyer design is fast, very fast. With four super imposed 5 inch guns and good speed, she'll do wonders I think. Also I accidentally extended the treaty by about 3 years. Oh well.
I'll also be able to use this time to refit my existing ships into better models. I think it'll be worth it. I've also been building a few light cruisers - the design is nothing special so I didn't bother putting it here.
Either I am a tard or did I skip over you with making the meme torpedo beats cruiser?
Wanna know what sucks? It's 1927, and I don't have torpedo bombers, purpose built carrier designs, OR carrier conversion tech. As Japan. For fucks sake.
I'd like more. I really would. But 21? That's a lot. That's an awful lot.
Eh, fuck it, I've got 10 years of treaty to burn through.
How about no to this. It's expensive and the treaty is near crippling. I need a war sooner or later.
And of course JUST AFTER I finish laying down about 30 fucking destroyers, this tech pops.
I want big daddy UK back on my side again.
And with them on my side, we're going to end this treaty.
We're at war with Germany, so I'm designing a new battleship class. She's a little light on armor, but that's mostly due to her massive sixteen inch guns. Unfortunately that design's going to need to wait a little bit until I can actually afford to design it. What a shame. We're also losing the trade war. There hasn't been a battle yet either.
The first battle available is a little intriguing.
And it goes to shit fast because I don't have AA on my heavy cruisers, and they've got a carrier with torpedo bombers. I don't have a carrier. At all. Fuck you game.
They also brought their battlecruiser too. Again, fuck you game.
Fuck. You. Game.
I get oxygen torpedoes, but I don't have torpedo bombers. Or dive bombers. What the absolute fuck.
11 months into the war and we FINALLY figure out dive bombers. Torpedo bombers? Pssht, nah, still working on those.
A year in and that battleship I just laid down is obsolete. Fuck me.
We also get an unexpected convoy raid battle. I'd say my ship is inferior to the German battlecruisers, except for AA. They prove it by beating the snot out of the Tsukuba in the first pass.
Two disabled turrets and heavy flooding. Fucking christ. She's flooding to death even at 16 knots. God fucking dammit. I have to cut her speed to 12 knots until she can get the damn flooding controlled.
I hate this so fucking much. The war keeps dragging on too. I'm not winning this. I'm not going to be winning battles either, so I'm denying engagements.
Fucking. FINALLY.
Three years into the war, and we're seeing sporadic blockades of Germany as the UK gains and loses enough dominance in Northern Europe to really do it.
Fucking FINALLY. It's been 40 months of hell. I've still yet to invent the idea of a flight deck. In fucking '32. GOD DAMMIT!
I'm planning on sticking with 14 inch guns for battle cruisers. It'll keep them lighter and faster, which is what I want.
I'm also getting a bunch of tech for CL's. Which is kind of nice, really. If only I had the resources to really build a bunch of new ones. I'm STILL waiting on that carrier tech.
Nope. No fucking luck.
This is a very beefy light cruiser, with a lot of five inch guns, and improved directors on them. She'll rip apart destroyers and other light cruisers most likely. Four quad mounted torpedoes is just the icing on the cake, really.
Well that's not good.
I built SEVEN of the fuckers. SEVEN. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. There goes my nest egg.
FUCKING CHRIST FINALLY HOLY SHIT.
She's going to take a year to finish, but she'll be fast fast fast. 28 knots means she will be able to outrun pretty much any ship out there. 26 planes too.
We get CVL's in fucking '36.
Yes. Yes. More yes.
Finally. At the end of '36, Japan has created an actual carrier.
And in '37, the tech you've all been waiting for. I'll have to make a crazy CA with as many torpedo mounts as I can legally throw on it and see how it does.
In late '38 a CV conversion pops. I might consider this later on.
As is though, I need new battlecruisers. This design should do the trick - at 31 knots, she's faster than anything else close to her tonnage or armament. She's also boasting a fuckload of heavy AA. I want two of her. I'm also going to need to upgrade my DD fleet once again.
'39 brings a nice development too.
OIL. NEED OIL.
Oh, MOTHERFUCKERS.
My future DD designs are going to be mental.
The Numakaze isn't as fast as some of my previous designs, but she's more heavily armed, and better defended against aircraft.
February 1940. It's finally here. I can build actual carriers. Holy. Fuck. Why did that take so long?
And a year later, the destroyers are obsolete. Again. Fucking hell.
I do however, finally have a viable carrier. She's relatively cheap for 60 planes, and her tonnage isn't bad. I have to use 8 inch guns because of bullshit from the design bureau. I think she'll be fast enough to outrun anything she'll come into contact with, and I can retrofit her with medium AA as soon as I unlock that.
Meanwhile, this monster is on her way. Loads of 16 inch guns. 25 knot speed. DP secondary armament with director cueing and AA value up the wazoo. Her secondaries aren't really armored, but that's fine. Her immunity zone is a little wonky too, but I wanted that extra torpedo defence. She's also got diesel engines, something I really haven't played around with much, but want to give a shot.
This, my friends, is my super carrier. She'll be expensive, and I won't be able to build more than one or two of her with my current budget, but I'll put the design in anyway. She's well armored, and has an impressive AA array alongside her aircraft complement.
*****
All in all, it can be very frustrating to not have certain techs pop when you want them to. My Mikasa class battleships for example, could use some medium AA, but I hadn't developed that yet when I designed them. My destroyers? I'm going to need to design more of those soon. I'll need to put down a torpedo based heavy or light cruiser soon too. Things are looking good though, otherwise, finally. I'll need to play catch up with heavy ships, but that's part of the problem of playing a power like Japan. Your budget and resources just aren't enough sometimes.
I'd like more. I really would. But 21? That's a lot. That's an awful lot.
Eh, fuck it, I've got 10 years of treaty to burn through.
How about no to this. It's expensive and the treaty is near crippling. I need a war sooner or later.
And of course JUST AFTER I finish laying down about 30 fucking destroyers, this tech pops.
I want big daddy UK back on my side again.
And with them on my side, we're going to end this treaty.
We're at war with Germany, so I'm designing a new battleship class. She's a little light on armor, but that's mostly due to her massive sixteen inch guns. Unfortunately that design's going to need to wait a little bit until I can actually afford to design it. What a shame. We're also losing the trade war. There hasn't been a battle yet either.
The first battle available is a little intriguing.
And it goes to shit fast because I don't have AA on my heavy cruisers, and they've got a carrier with torpedo bombers. I don't have a carrier. At all. Fuck you game.
They also brought their battlecruiser too. Again, fuck you game.
Fuck. You. Game.
I get oxygen torpedoes, but I don't have torpedo bombers. Or dive bombers. What the absolute fuck.
11 months into the war and we FINALLY figure out dive bombers. Torpedo bombers? Pssht, nah, still working on those.
A year in and that battleship I just laid down is obsolete. Fuck me.
We also get an unexpected convoy raid battle. I'd say my ship is inferior to the German battlecruisers, except for AA. They prove it by beating the snot out of the Tsukuba in the first pass.
Two disabled turrets and heavy flooding. Fucking christ. She's flooding to death even at 16 knots. God fucking dammit. I have to cut her speed to 12 knots until she can get the damn flooding controlled.
I hate this so fucking much. The war keeps dragging on too. I'm not winning this. I'm not going to be winning battles either, so I'm denying engagements.
Fucking. FINALLY.
Three years into the war, and we're seeing sporadic blockades of Germany as the UK gains and loses enough dominance in Northern Europe to really do it.
Fucking FINALLY. It's been 40 months of hell. I've still yet to invent the idea of a flight deck. In fucking '32. GOD DAMMIT!
I'm planning on sticking with 14 inch guns for battle cruisers. It'll keep them lighter and faster, which is what I want.
I'm also getting a bunch of tech for CL's. Which is kind of nice, really. If only I had the resources to really build a bunch of new ones. I'm STILL waiting on that carrier tech.
Nope. No fucking luck.
This is a very beefy light cruiser, with a lot of five inch guns, and improved directors on them. She'll rip apart destroyers and other light cruisers most likely. Four quad mounted torpedoes is just the icing on the cake, really.
Well that's not good.
I built SEVEN of the fuckers. SEVEN. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. There goes my nest egg.
FUCKING CHRIST FINALLY HOLY SHIT.
She's going to take a year to finish, but she'll be fast fast fast. 28 knots means she will be able to outrun pretty much any ship out there. 26 planes too.
We get CVL's in fucking '36.
Yes. Yes. More yes.
Finally. At the end of '36, Japan has created an actual carrier.
And in '37, the tech you've all been waiting for. I'll have to make a crazy CA with as many torpedo mounts as I can legally throw on it and see how it does.
In late '38 a CV conversion pops. I might consider this later on.
As is though, I need new battlecruisers. This design should do the trick - at 31 knots, she's faster than anything else close to her tonnage or armament. She's also boasting a fuckload of heavy AA. I want two of her. I'm also going to need to upgrade my DD fleet once again.
'39 brings a nice development too.
OIL. NEED OIL.
Oh, MOTHERFUCKERS.
My future DD designs are going to be mental.
The Numakaze isn't as fast as some of my previous designs, but she's more heavily armed, and better defended against aircraft.
February 1940. It's finally here. I can build actual carriers. Holy. Fuck. Why did that take so long?
And a year later, the destroyers are obsolete. Again. Fucking hell.
I do however, finally have a viable carrier. She's relatively cheap for 60 planes, and her tonnage isn't bad. I have to use 8 inch guns because of bullshit from the design bureau. I think she'll be fast enough to outrun anything she'll come into contact with, and I can retrofit her with medium AA as soon as I unlock that.
Meanwhile, this monster is on her way. Loads of 16 inch guns. 25 knot speed. DP secondary armament with director cueing and AA value up the wazoo. Her secondaries aren't really armored, but that's fine. Her immunity zone is a little wonky too, but I wanted that extra torpedo defence. She's also got diesel engines, something I really haven't played around with much, but want to give a shot.
This, my friends, is my super carrier. She'll be expensive, and I won't be able to build more than one or two of her with my current budget, but I'll put the design in anyway. She's well armored, and has an impressive AA array alongside her aircraft complement.
*****
All in all, it can be very frustrating to not have certain techs pop when you want them to. My Mikasa class battleships for example, could use some medium AA, but I hadn't developed that yet when I designed them. My destroyers? I'm going to need to design more of those soon. I'll need to put down a torpedo based heavy or light cruiser soon too. Things are looking good though, otherwise, finally. I'll need to play catch up with heavy ships, but that's part of the problem of playing a power like Japan. Your budget and resources just aren't enough sometimes.
I just find it hilarious that Japan in this TL is a complete moron when it comes to naval air techs, and also is getting spanked by the Germans.
Though by all means that war and the tech pop-ups have been awful to you. Seriously, the CVLs should've been late 20s at worst. Rather curious on how you're going to make the Co-Prosperity Sphere in this one, given the Brits have been the only reason you've not gotten the shit kicked out of you in half your wars.
Though by all means that war and the tech pop-ups have been awful to you. Seriously, the CVLs should've been late 20s at worst. Rather curious on how you're going to make the Co-Prosperity Sphere in this one, given the Brits have been the only reason you've not gotten the shit kicked out of you in half your wars.
The Germans sent all of their battle cruisers. They've got like twice the budget I do, and because they have Java they can actually park six battlecruisers in Southeast Asia.
There's a new update for Rule the Waves II, and honestly I've done as much as I can with this save. The aircraft carrier restrictions really hampered me. In 1946, I'm calling it good. I had to deal with a ton of bullshit in terms of tech, and I do mean real bullshit. Treaties and tech both royally fucked over my plans long term. If I do a small nation again, I'm doing game budget, just to make things more interesting.
Oh, now this is going to be interesting.
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