Science and the Occult - A Serious (?) Thread

[Tranhuviya]

Let's get wacko, fams. Anyone else ever think about how these two topics relate? And moreover, where does science end and occultism begin?

Spoiler: Examples

Jack Parsons, a rocketry pioneer, was also a particularly involved occultist. With the help of L. Ron Hubbard himself, he carried out the 'Babalon Working' ritual. Now, for those unfamiliar with Thelema, Babalon is a archetypal sacred whore type. Supposedly, Parsons treated the ritual as a success when he met his wife, Majorie Cameron.

The Central Intelligence agency did a lot of off-the-wall research in the 60s-70s, much of which has entered the lore of conspiracy theories. Among this was ESP research and experiments with "remote viewing" as a means to gather intelligence. Ever seen The Men Who Stare At Goats? It wasn't exaggerating much.

And of course, there's SETI, depending on your view on the nature of what we usually call 'aliens' and all that.

I just want to start a discussion, but I am interested to see what you think.

 

[Positron]

I wouldn't call SETI occult, although it is a ridiculously optimistic pipe dream.

 

[Zvantastika]

Long story short:
Science: Evidence -> Hypothesis -> Theory
Occult: Theory -> Evidence -> Hypothesis

In science you're using evidence to reach an hypothesis, testing your hypothesis leads to theory, theory is now knowledge. In the "Occult" you already have a theory and you're just bullshitting your way to it by gathering evidence and making up hypothesis to support it which is basically the exact opposite to science.

And of course, there's SETI, depending on your view on the nature of what we usually call 'aliens' and all that.

SETI isn't occult, they are just people with big dreams, REALLY big dreams. Aliens are out there, for sure, but are they visiting us or are they reachable to us?. Well, if we take into account that we are hardly able to send a probe a couple of planets away and that those aliens should also be able to do the same, the possibility always exists but the probability of it happening is so small it's just a wet dream.

 

[Joan Nyan]

Much of occultism disguises itself as science, and many occultists disguise themselves as scientists. For instance, believing that you can predict the global weather a hundred years from now when in actuality it's pretty hard to predict the local weather next week isn't science, nor is believing that the Earth will burn us all to death unless we start being nicer to it. Ask Bill Nye the Occult Guy though, and he'll tell you that that's all there is to science (besides gay sex).

 

[Positron]

Ask Bill Nye the Occult Guy though, and he'll tell you that that's all there is to science (besides gay sex).

The notion that you can cure a brain disease by excising perfectly healthy genitalia does smack of magical thinking.

 

[Clownfish]

The difference is one assumes dreams are a result of natural and material processes and the other assumes dreams have meaning.

 

[Positron]

Much of occultism disguises itself as science, and many occultists disguise themselves as scientists. For instance, believing that you can predict the global weather a hundred years from now when in actuality it's pretty hard to predict the local weather next week isn't science,

Long-term climate changes are paradoxically easier to predict than short-term changes, because astrophysical and geological processes trump any short term perturbations (even man-made perturbations). For example, we are certain that, on a million-year time scale, atmospheric carbon dioxide level is going on a DEcreasing trend, and the Sun will heat up. The net effect is that Earth temperature will be going up despite the decreasing greenhouse effect. Yet the total annihilation of life on Earth will be due to the decreasing carbon dioxide, not the heat: when plants can no longer carry out photosynthesis, life is doomed.

nor is believing that the Earth will burn us all to death unless we start being nicer to it.

If you're talking about the Gaia Hypothesis, it is widely regarded as bad science.

 

[Joan Nyan]

If you're talking about the Gaia Hypothesis, it is widely regarded as bad science.

I'm not saying scientists literally believe in a personified Earth. However, climate alarmists assert that if we don't stop using fossil fuels, coal, etc then we're all going to die. It's practically the same thing.

 

[Autistic Illuminati]

Science is based on observations made in the physical world in order to work, if you can't observe something physically then you can't make a scientific theory on this (and this apply even to very theoricals fields like math).
That's why you can't proove / refute the existence of god or the afterlife in a scientific manner, because you can't observe it in a systematic fashion.
In fact, some peoples tried to have a scientific answer to the question, and everytime the theory was rejected, because the author always make too many asumption on things you can't be sure.

tl/dr : occultism and science are not the same stuff, and are not design to answers the same questions.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

I remember seeing this one documentary on dragons. There was this one lady in it who claimed that "science is just one way of looking at the world," implying that dragons really do exist, despite the lack of evidence for their existence.

Anyway I haven't seen any real evidence for the occult. Just anecdotes. And it seems there's a trend of science and observation challenging the occult.

Like if "astral projection" really worked, why did it take so long to disprove geocentrism? Why was the volcanic activity on Io such a surprise when the Voyager missions uncovered it in the late 1970s? Why did the knowledge that we're in one galaxy amidst many remain unknown until the 20th century?

 

[ICametoLurk]

Both are nothing but social constructs.

 

[Un Platano]

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...obvious_example_of_how_science_is_flawed.html
Very informative, changed my views forever, I highly recommend reading.

 

[Doug_Hitzel]

Both are nothing but social constructs.

The concept of “social construct” is, by itself, a social construct.

 

[Un Platano]

The concept of “social construct” is, by itself, a social construct.

And guess what society it was that constructed (((science))).

 

[OtterParty]

modern science branched off from the occult over several centuries most prominently in the form of alchemy leading to chemistry and thats really cool

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

Occultists are just a bunch of edgy Gnostic fags who take themselves too seriously.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Occultists are just a bunch of edgy Gnostic fags who take themselves too seriously.

>Falling for the Demiurge's tricks

 

[MerriedxReldnahc]

In my readings as an edgelordfag, I've found some really interesting things about Hermeticism and its relation to modern science. Cliff notes version: Hermeticism came about from this Egyptian wizard dude who apparently is the source of all alchemy. The use of certain symbols to detonate elements isn't that much unlike the modern concept of the periodic table. A lot of what we know about chemistry and elements came about from alchemists dicking around trying to make gold. The way phosporous was discovered was some dude trying to make piss into gold. Some terms we use in chemistry, like "hermetically sealed" are directly related to Hermetic/alchemeic practices.

When I read the Kybalion, I came across something really interesting related to the Hermetic Principle of Vibration- which states that all objects vibrate with certain frequencies. The book was published in 1908 so made mention that the discovery of the atom and movement of molecules backs up this idea of everything being composed of vibrating units of matter. The book goes on to state that with the discovery of the electron, science may be coming closer to discovering the basic unit of all matter that composes "The All". The book suggests that by causing an objects molecules to vibrate at a high enough frequency, that fundamental building block may be revealed. I might be jumping to dramatic conclusions, but all I could think of while reading that was particle accelerators and the Higgs Boson.
Anyway, if you can look past the veneer of mysticism and flamboyance there's sometimes a good deal of truth within Occultism.

 

[Paralethal]

I, Jorry Zinfandel, am a mighty Level 3 Wizard. I hail from the Forbidden Lands of Zelnorm, and bring word of the many wondrous and mysterious happenings of my realm. I hope this finds you in good health, may your many pouches overflow with the finest milks.

 

[Doug_Hitzel]

I, Jorry Zinfandel, am a mighty Level 3 Wizard. I hail from the Forbidden Lands of Zelnorm, and bring word of the many wondrous and mysterious happenings of my realm. I hope this finds you in good health, may your many pouches overflow with the finest milks.

Cool beans.