(Serious answers only) how should society deal with autistic men so they live fulfilling lives? -

therealchrischan

kiwifarms.net
The real elephant in the room here is that the number of people diagnosed with rather profound developmental disabilities is rising rapidly.


If we take the CDC at their word, ASD diagnoses have more than doubled in under a decade. What the hell is going on with that? Some sort of dietary or environmental factor at work?

A few years ago I was tasked with carrying out what was supposed to be an independent assessment into services in my local area for people with Autism and Asperger's. The levels of arse-covering, self interest and blatant interference that I encountered was maddening.

Broadly speaking, these were the key issues:

  • It was not possible to access Autism-based services, or government funded support, in the UK until a formal diagnosis had been made. Unfortunately, establishing whether someone has Autism is a protracted process. There were simply not enough resources to carry out these assessments in a timely manner. Consequently there were people with Autism who couldn't get any assistance beyond what was provided by charities and this would go on for years. Furthermore, there was no clear pathway to getting an assessment. Even people working within the local healthcare system were not entirely clear on what was required to get on the waiting list. Those who had succeeded had done so through a variety of different methods. An approach that worked for one family wouldn't work for another. It seemed to be completely random. At the time, self-diagnosing yourself with Autism on Tumblr was not widely accepted within the medical community.

  • There was no directory of services for people with Autism or Asperger's. In my communication with sufferers and their families I was often made aware of services of which I had no previous knowledge. There was one-widely praised sports program that I only found about by accident. When I wrote to the person who ran it, with a list of questions, she did not reply. It was only when a charity intervened on my behalf that she responded. I think that, in some cases, the people running these services wilfully operate below the radar, at a level where things are manageable and there is little outside interference. I sympathise to a degree, though people undoubtedly suffer as a result of these services not being more widely known about.

  • The needs of those people with Autism and Asperger's who can cope up to a point are frequently overlooked, as they not considered as urgent as the needs of people with, for example, advanced learning difficulties. When these individuals do snap they are often treated as violent without any consideration being given to the cause of their behaviour and how best to approach them.

  • Many young adults with Autism and Asperger's were still living with their parents, who were mostly single mothers. Raising a kid with Autism is hard on marriages. These young people had difficulty securing and maintaining employment. Furthermore, many had withdrawn from claiming unemployment benefits as the process is confrontational and few job centre staff were trained to work with people who are on the spectrum. Consequently these individuals had no disposable income, they left their homes infrequently and had limited social interaction, which in many cases exacerbated their condition. In the long term it seemed likely that there would be a population of very isolated middle-aged people with Autism, whose parents had either passed away or who could not longer take care of them. It is difficult to know how they would cope on their own. I would have liked to have done some more investigation into the problems faced by older people with Autism, however it was too much for me to do on top of everything else.

  • The behaviour of some charities who were working in this sector left a lot to be desired. One charity asked me to circulate a press release for an impending consultation hosted by the local council, where the future of local Autism services was to be discussed with those who were affected. The press release framed this event as if it was exclusively for the parents of people with Asperger's, as opposed to being open to anyone whose lives had been touched by Autism. It was very aggressive in tone and instructed parents on the manner in which they should address the panel. I heard later that the head of the charity was concerned that the needs of people with Asperger's were being overshadowed by the effort that was being made to address the needs of people with Autism. I boiled the press release down to the bare facts and sent it out. When the charity complained, my manager's boss compelled me to send out the original release, even after I pointed out the parts of the Autism Act that we would be breaching as a result. Incredibly this person held a seat on the local Autism council. At this point the Autism Act was relatively new, amounting what was basically a paragraph or two of law, and two lengthy documents containing guidance on how local authorities could meet their new responsibilities. These allowed for some leeway in the type of services that were provided, based on local needs, but also (inevitably) some wiggle room to shirk some of these duties.

The TL;DR here is that not every person with Autism is a genius who can break down the number and colour of the sprinkles on your doughnut. I have met people with that insane level of focus but they are not the norm. If there are no suitable jobs for the average person with Autism or Asperger's, then they need, at the very least, easy access to unemployment and disability benefits. Services need to be more cohesive and there needs to be better overall communication and coordination between providers. The Autism Act was supposed to provide this, however shortfalls in funding and general fuckery, of the type I have described above, mean that what is actually in place is often unsatisfactory.
amen i agree with you there
 
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Meiwaku

キウィフルーツの赤い乳首猿
kiwifarms.net
Keep the coom brain away from them. We cannot make them angry incel coomers ot rven worse, troon out. Use their Autism to hone and train their ability fixation to do something.

Also: Train them to be decent humans with responsibility and consequences.
 

Judgment Boy

You are a business man.
kiwifarms.net
Just follow the IDF's example.
Weaponize it for profit.

It will always round down to the very same thing: it starts at home. Properly parenting a child and learning the right balance between what should be encouraged and what needs disciplined is required for any child to amount to something, disabled or not. Just because a kid is autistic, that doesn't mean you need to enable their delusions or bad behavior. Play to their strengths, harden them to their weaknesses, and don't just give up and enable your kid just because it's easier.

The very moment you cater to something, it will be exploited. Do not parent a child by giving them the excuse: "You're just special!"
Little Timmy is not special for being autistic. He's just different. A learning disorder is not a badge of honor, and it needs to stop being treated that way.
Going to communication therapy and outreach programs are just part of their childhood, and the bigger deal a parent makes over "rewarding" a kid for just going to an appointment, the more entitled to special treatment they will feel as they age. While I can see maybe giving your kid a candy bar or something as a reward for good behavior, he does not need a whole sundae every single time he goes a day without biting his teacher. To repeat what I started with: It's about finding the right balance.

Will that fix all the bad eggs on the spectrum? No. And we all know that no matter how vigilant, parents can't control absolutely everything their kid gets exposed to at school. But I really think the modern mindset of celebrating the bare minimum and curating "safe spaces" is what's made things considerably worse.

I'd also like to mention that trusting any statistics on "The Rise Of Autism" isn't the best idea. Autism is just the new trend diagnosis, just as ADHD was before it. While I don't doubt there are a rise in genuine cases due to research factors, there will always be doctors falling into the trends - whether it be willingly or unwittingly. While your 6-year-old son may indeed be an Aspy, there's also just as good of a chance that he isn't and just can't hold scissors properly.
 

ZeCommissar

This paper contains all the reasons you're a fag
kiwifarms.net
Eh. Maybe those people who were talking about using gene mapping to eliminate autism were right in the end.
Honestly this

Once we hopefully find out the genes that are the main cause of autism, and we advance our gene editing technologies we should make it very incentivized to untard your genes. We shouldn't force people to do it, because giving the government or some other entity the ability to forcibly rewrite peoples genes seems like a very bad idea. We also need to help control the environmental factors that might play into autism, but due to the large amount of toxins in our everyday post-industrial environment this will be tricky.
 

spiky

kiwifarms.net
  • Use them as explorers/scientists (hard today though since everything has been discovered). However if space exploration is funded they could be the first men on Mars!
  • Hire them as day laborers like Hispanics to fix the high unemployment rate. (if they are paid lower, it could offset automation)
This used to be so in the past. Many if not most sailors during the Age of Discovery were outcasts and miscreants.
Those same people used to be itinerant workers, day laborers etc pre modern era. Pisses me off when lefties want open borders and business owners want cheap spic labor, all this does is disenfranchise the most vulnerable people (various speds and outcasts, welfare traps, victims of human trafficking). I don't know what the answer is and I don't know if there is one, but having a large chunk of any civilization permanently in a shit state for a long time is never a good thing and could even become unfixable.

Take a look at the state of black people and their communities. You can argue about iq and all that and you'd be right to an extent however its clear that the biggest problem is fatherlessness. Well how can one fix this? You can make dna testing mandatory, and make welfare contingent on working if the person is able. But the current zeitgeist and even the laws make fixing this impossible. DNA collection is unconstitutional, and anything less then unlimited gibs for blacks is racist this atm impossible.

I don't the autist problem is going to be solved with anything short of gene alteration. They can't work many jobs and the ones they can are filled with illegals/scabs, they can't get a wife or gf , whores (might as well have doctor administered doping) are only a temporary fix and not a replacement for emotional fulfillment. Any solutions that I can see that are potentially actionable today are made impossible by the zeitgeist. You can go back to trad shit, can't legalize prostitution, can't force em to work, even if you could there aren't enough autist friendly offices and labor is fucked, arranged marriage is impossible (autists on mars will happen sooner).

Tldr: shits fucked.
 
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ClownBrew

Drink the brew!
kiwifarms.net
Send the H1Bs back home and funnel the autists into engineering again. A new Cold War with China is ramping up fast.
 

Shiversblood

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Maybe India had the right idea with arranged marriages all along. Arranged marriages is the only way to save incel men who have autism.
 

TracdacianTortoise

kiwifarms.net
Ok, so, in the past, weird fucks with talents in specific areas were typically given patronage by rich people or universities to do science or art. Numerous examples exist in scientists around Newton's time. Outside of Newton and Einstein, Henry Cavendish was also an autist, only able to talk to female servants via note, and only capable of interacting with a single person at a time. Basically, my point is, I personally feel autistic people are responsible for a majority of humanities movement forwards in science and art (bear in mind this doesn't only include barely functional autists like Cavendish, but also people who are just a bit weird). Patronage seems a reasonable option, identify savants, let them do their thing.

As for the non-functional autists, fuck if I know, once you get past Chris-chan levels of autism you rapidly descend into the realm of utter tards. At that point, even if they were to be reclusive weirdos who just work on the stuff they're good at and have others manage basic living essentials, they require an awful lot of help to get to even that point. Typically though, even with the utter tards, you can find something they'll latch onto. Know an old guy who's thing is chopping wood, he's an expert on chainsaws and safety and shit, but otherwise he's not bright. If you can find a niche, they can normally offer something back to society as a whole, and are typically pretty happy.

Complex question though. Arguably it's easier to give a complete autist a fulfilling life, they normally are pretty happy once they find whatever obsession they have, and typically don't really seem to understand much outside of their small bubble. High-functioning autists if anything are more likely to be depressed, often more than capable of understanding the world around them if given time, but being smart normally isn't great for mental health, and most autists are still weird enough to have difficulty forming a normal social support network the way the average person might.
 

Mr Cuddles

kiwifarms.net
You will need a solid definition of autistic to have a sensible discussion. I see autism as a very rare medical condition which at severe levels makes people barely able to function and I mean rare when I say rare <0.5%. However OP and several respondents are seemingly including all NEETs and fuck ups as autistic. The answer to first is pretty simple and just boils down to behavioral therapy with a lot of just putting up with it. The answer to the second is more complicated.

I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist but IME there are cultures everywhere and some people are just better suited than others to any particular culture. It occurred to me when watching Vee's analysis of Jubilees "Strangers guess each others intelligence" video that when he used the term emotionally intelligent that it did not map onto something that be skilled but rather a cultural trait. The specifics was when he described Maria (who is an extroverted sociopath) as emotionally intelligent that it was just a judgement call on what society (and corporate HR in particular) deems acceptable. My initial thought was that in Russia it is the men who emotionally intelligent.

The rise in NEETdom and Incels has a lot to do with the fact that modern society substantially different traits than it did 100 or even 20 years ago. Whether this is a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion but nonetheless it will make relative winners and losers. The biggest winners are people like Maria, who may not score well on objective testing can comfortably blag and manipulate their way through any of their short comings. The biggest losers are people (mostly men) who care about being correct more than they do about being popular or respected.

This in combination with poorer parenting mostly caused by single parent households has drastically increased the number of losers in a society that seems to crumbling at an accelerating rate. It occurs to me writing this that this topic of conversation could have a book written on it. I'll happily go into more detail on a particular topic that I've brought up but will give the simple TL:biggrin:R.

TL:biggrin:R: Society needs to value competence more.
 

Lemmingwise

Female gamers
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
emotionally intelligent
This is a mostly meaningless phrase.

Maybe India had the right idea with arranged marriages all along. Arranged marriages is the only way to save incel men who have autism.

We had a working system just two generations ago.

If states don't on average take from men and give to women, that would solve it to,and endear those working incels to the women who could spend their money.
 

Bad Gateway

[shitposting angrily]
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Like this!
1 (1).jpg
 

Syntaxion

200% based & redpilled
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Isn't one of the biggest things in autism being heavily obsessed with something? Like being obsessed with videogames or anime, or more specific like minecraft and naruto? Shit like that?

Just make them obsessed with sports or something lol.

I know a guy with autism, we used to game together. I got him into MMA by talking autistically about it, making jokes and memes and all that. Then he started to watch it, got heavily into it, and afaik he joined an mma gym.

As for the ones addicted to 4chan, just introduce them to /fit/.
 

Rupert Bear

#nutwooddrip
kiwifarms.net
I think the main problem would be determining who is "Autistic" in the first place. An "autist" could be anyone from a Alan Turing level genius to a self-hitting retard that can't even walk to a kid that's just withdrawn and is obsessed with digimon but is otherwise average. It's only gotten worse since Aspergers was eliminated from the DSM-V because muh nazis and was merged with autism, and now a 130IQ autistic dude can be scientifically paired on the same category as a chris chan tier retard. Even using the "high functioning vs low functioning" categories will get you screeched at by neurodiversity retards for being ableist or some shit. It's also why i strongly believe that the neurodiversity collective hivemind is a cancer that must be eradicated from the face of earth.

And if you're saying that we shouldn't pander to a minority, think of this:
Everyone is tripping over themselves to pander to troons which are a small minority.
We have changed the way society operates just for them.
There are way more autists than troons.
Let's do the same for autists as we do for troons.
  1. The current society is more accepting and beneficial to autistic people than it has ever been. Just look at the internet.
  2. Unless you take KF shitposting as fact, Troons, fags, blacks and other minorities at least know how to get a job, make friends, network with other people, get laid and contribute to society. 98% of Autists struggle greatly to do any of these things for the sole fact that they have problems socializing which scares people the fuck away. And no, they're not socially retarded because of the evil capitalist system, they are because they lack Theory of Mind and Social Empathy.
 

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