Serious LGBT Discussion -

yahooligan

web 1.0 newfag
kiwifarms.net
I've been around in the e-drama communities. I know not to act exceptional online.
I created an account after lurking for a while, when I realized this is a "safe space" for us to interact, for those of us who are above acting exceptional due to our sexual identities alone. It's super fucking ironic, but despite (or perhaps due to) being gay as hell, I really like this place. Good on ya.
 

CynicalGardevoir

The Libtardevoir
kiwifarms.net
After some serious consideration, there's only a small amount of trans people can really support without feeling that "I HAVE to do this because I'll be ridiculed if I don't."

Basically, I'll only be truly supportive if:

1) If they don't prance around screaming they're trans and have some like edgy hyena fursona that wears the trans pride flag

2) if they aren't a "he/they" 14-21 year-old - 90% of these are just girls who are very tomboyish

3) if they have actual dysphoria, like an actual disconnect and actually feel the need to change themselves

4) aren't absolutely cunts to "cishets"

5) either a man or a woman - no respect for enbies from me, sorry

6) ... basically, I only respect genuinely good people. If someone is cool and friendly and they just so happen to be trans, that's okay in my book. If you're like Shmorky, Jerry Peet, and every disgusting "female" babyfur, those ain't trans to me - they're troons.
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I was at a local diner with my mother recently, and she tends to ask me questions about how I feel about politics, knowing that younger adutls around my age tend to be more "woke."

She actually brought up an interesting point and sort of opened my mind a bit: Respect should go both ways.
Someone should have the right to not agree with someone's identity as much as someone has a right to live as such identify. Now, she's the kind of person that says that identity shouldn't be everybody's business, which actually isn't a terrible thing. I considered telling her I'm a lesbian, but why should I have to put on this big show just to say that? I'm a white girl living in New York, 1/5 of us are dykes anyway.

To simplify, she means she should the right to not accept a clearly feminine person as nonbinary or trans. If I'll be honest, I used to actually get quite pushy with "Mom, just say try to accommodate with what makes them comfortable." but who am I to really stop what she feels? Thanks to her, I've actually learned that if I see something I disagree, I have a right to feel the way I do. I know that's stupid to say, but at my age, people are lowkey forced to "uwu be respectful of identities and tweat everybody like delicate flowers"
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I hear this from a lot of people who don't fully understand what gender dyphoria is

"oh,, you're experiencing this because you have depression and yaddayadda"

Um, isn't it the other way around? I'm sure having a condition that makes you feel disconnected to yourself like that probably feels like hell. Is there actual evidence that gender dysphoria is cause by depression. Idunno, I was always told it was the depression come FROM the dysphoria, not the other way around. I'd love to hear a professional opinion about that, and not some edgy statement made by some anime-avatar person
 
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Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Um, isn't it the other way around? I'm sure having a condition that makes you feel disconnected to yourself like that probably feels like hell. Is there actual evidence that gender dysphoria is cause by depression. Idunno, I was always told it was the depression come FROM the dysphoria, not the other way around. I'd love to hear a professional opinion about that, and not some edgy statement made by some anime-avatar person
The only evidence for that is in teens, but it may be a meaningless correlation. Lots of teenagers experience dysphoria. Their bodies and brains are changing rapidly and they're hormonally in chaos. This causes depression and probably the dysphoria. Both of these usually pass. Unless they're indulged and maladaptive coping behaviors sink in.

More recently I think there's a trend for the identity-less (and therefore depressed) mentally ill NEETs to latch on to being trans as a magic bullet solution for their problems and convince themselves they have dysphoria because they once fapped to the idea of being the opposite gender. But that's a whole other thing to the above or actual gender dysphoria.
 
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Cactus Wings

Coughing for Cash
kiwifarms.net
Trans people earn my full respect the second they acknowledge transtrending and label these idiots 'trannies'. That way you easily discuss trans people and trannies with 5 miles between them on the legitimacy scale. Same way niggers rob stores, but black people deserve validity.

Anyway, as we've all seen in those million screencaps; transsexuality is a condition imposed onto insecure teenagers wishing to belong. For 'my generation', transsexuality wasn't a trend til mid-20s, so when people say they force others to come out as trans, because they themselves did it too late, it's simply underlining the fact that it IS a trend. They wish they could've been ahead of the curve, so now they force others to be. They see it as some sort of public service.
I can clearly recall my first dabbling in bisexuality and e-flirting as a kid. It was a bunch of edgy dudes across several multiplayer games trying to be the biggest faggot to the point they gave their characters 3ft dicks and called each other Daddy. It was absolutely rampant, yet today it's completely gone. Nobody is simply 'gay' anymore, let alone into proper male masculinity. Everything is 5 degrees of nu-genders and butch domme lesbo gay she-xe fuckery.

I read a tweet earlier saying "two cute girlfriends fucking". It was two (furry) male characters with tits, but of course the comments were super supportive. Why? 'cute girlfriends'. It rings like an orgasm in the ears of a social media-aware sort who throbs in tune with an increasing follower count. Sexuality has become a means of attention, more-so than it was in the past, where being an obnoxious husky boyslut was enough to really get the engines going for most.

One of the few friends I've had from back then; an actual fag who fucks a dude on n'th year irl, has now come out as trans. Clever name choice; not too obnoxious but not 'Lisa' either. Instantly recognizes the negative connotations to transtrenders and how rampant it is, which is saying something from a 'woke' Brit. Rant aside: 'they' is a honorific for elderly and royalty here. You can earn it the same as any other, else they're pretty much asking to be addressed as 'queen', which I guess half of them do on social media anyway. Half the fun of being transgender is getting to call yourself daddy, mommy, king, queen, whatever. "Trash lesbo".

People can't get up in their own shit enough anymore. They want titles, custom names, borderline worshiping. If someone is trans-female, and they're okay with posting pics of themselves online, it's pretty much a given that they try to monetize it and use it as some kind of social leverage. Ugly as fuck but lucky with genetics? Shave that ass and throw it in a circle on Twitter; instant validation. Notice how transmen get absolutely zero attention. They're not being treated as kinks the same way girls with dicks do. It's not hip to be a girl without tits or dick.

Transtrending is literally just a matter of wanting even more clout because both SJWs, Twitch-chat memers, and the internet at large to some extend either jerk off to or at least acknowledge trannies. C9Sneaky has 1400 patreons for his 'ironic' cosplay. That includes the 'ironic' memers; those who jerk off to it, and those who for some reason consider him a trans icon. It's a fetish. It's hardcore body modification; that's it. Earn up to it. We more or less choose our sexuality at some point in life; you chose to spend $50k to become depressed and misshapen because you didn't just want to squat for a larger ass and wear frilled skirts like a real, respectable faggot.
The only evidence for that is in teens, but it may be a meaningless correlation. Lots of teenagers experience dysphoria. Their bodies and brains are changing rapidly and they're hormonally in chaos. This causes depression and probably the dysphoria
I've literally never heard anyone address puberty or late-teens as victims of dysphoria or depression 'naturally'. It's some tacked-on shit in newer times, which points back to the age-old debate: Is things like autism actually more rampant than we thought, or did we just widen the margin for what is considered diagnosed autism? We're at a point in time where grandpa's "get some friends, exceptional individual" and mom's "don't be so rough" collide. Do we just magically put a lot of words to simple needs not being met? Would a kiss and a nut fix their worldview, or do we set them up for 40 years in hell til they pull the trigger?

I had very few friends in high school; I could've gone as depressed and all kinds of shit, but in reality I was just emotionally starved. Had someone told me of dysphoria and all these make-believe conditions, I would've gladly signed on to some of them for good boy points from peers. As mentioned above, I think it really is a matter of respect. We get it so easily online by choosing labels for ourselves, so when we go out into real life and people don't immediately succumb to our e-penis, some get offended.

Then again, it's largely a US issue. We don't ever use ma'am or sir here. 'They' is an honorific in itself, so the go-to is "Would (they) like some help" etc. I think the closest in English is 'thee', but not outdated?
 
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GarthMarenghisDankplace

Guns. Glamour. Gunt.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I don't think gay stuff is unnatural. The thing about evolution is that it's super fucking lazy and loads of things we end up with are real C3 efforts (see knees). We got a sex drive to fuck other people, this was enough to ensure there were more people. Evolution generally doesn't hone in on specifics when a broad policy would do, like how our bodies love sugar because in our ancestral environment it meant fresh fruit but now it mostly means diabetes. Our genes don't have a nuanced take on naturally derived fructose with fibre and vitamins vs refined white sugar in fizzy water- they just likes sugar. I reckon our sex drives are like that, they just wanna bone. It's certainly something you find across most social mammal species.

The only issue with this theory is that it wouldn't necessarily explain why some people are fully gay. However that might be situational. Go to any single sex boarding school and see how many people are 100%, hardcore, never even looked straight. Since we live in a fairly sex segregated society this rarely happens the other way around but I wonder if you put one gay dude on an island of women whether or not they would eventually fuck. I'd guess they might and plenty of gay people have kids from teenage flings etc so even a strong preference one way wouldn't knock you out of the gene pool necessarily. An alternative to this 'we're all flexible' hypothesis might be that there is a group, but not individual, level advantage to homosexuality, like fainting in goats. Maybe kids with a gay uncle or aunt are more likely to survive so preferences are passed on indirectly,

I just feel like it's disingenuous to to say something which happens in nature across many species (and in our own, cause we're part of nature too) is 'unnatural'. That doesn't follow and its a philosophical dead end to appeal to nature as an arbiter of morality anyway.
 

Give Her The D

Amputee without a Soul
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I think a lot of trans things can be looking to escape an identity that caused you pain at a very young age. I definitely had some of those at a very young age and looked for years on ways to sort that out, and in the absolutely wrong way. Though I've technically been "over" those things for years, they still haunted me for a good while. I don't think of trans for me being the "muh true gender" type of crap you see Tumblr splat off every other day. I think you can tell you're trans before diagnosis, and while it indeed requires a true diagnosis, you should eventually seek treatment, as it could just be something else. Of what? I don't know.

Honestly, seeking a philosophy in states like that helps too. I take a very stoic personality and analyze what really matters. Some edgelord calling me a dumb trender or whatever doesn't matter, because they're probably just about as lame as that person, if not more lame. Trans people could see a lot of help with that.
 

Wallace

Cram it in me, baby!
kiwifarms.net
I think a lot of trans things can be looking to escape an identity that caused you pain at a very young age. I definitely had some of those at a very young age and looked for years on ways to sort that out, and in the absolutely wrong way. Though I've technically been "over" those things for years, they still haunted me for a good while. I don't think of trans for me being the "muh true gender" type of crap you see Tumblr splat off every other day. I think you can tell you're trans before diagnosis, and while it indeed requires a true diagnosis, you should eventually seek treatment, as it could just be something else. Of what? I don't know.
I see this in pretty much every de-transition story I've read: trans as a maladaptive coping mechanism for other problems. The social contagion of troonery is a big factor too, as well as the positive (or else!) attention you get from it. Imagine being a teenager and having a doctor tell your parents that if they don't do what you want, you'll kill yourself.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Yeah I know a dude who still has gender dysphoria. He was a very effeminate bisexual guy in a hick town growing up. Seems like the dysphoria initially manifested as "shit everything would be fine if I was just a girl instead". It's understandable some poor kid could end up that way in those circumstances. Of course this dude later dealt with it and never went troon, finding other means more effective for handling the issue. It's anecdotal but I wouldn't be surprised if a significant subset of people with gender dysphoria had a similar experience.

Yeah, even if it were totally unnatural or even a choice, so fucking what? Why would it be an invalid choice?
Well deliberately limiting your dating pool a ton is probably astupid thing to do. That said I never chose to be attracted to women so I can only assume gay dudes never chose to be attracted to men.
 

Give Her The D

Amputee without a Soul
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Yeah I know a dude who still has gender dysphoria. He was a very effeminate bisexual guy in a hick town growing up. Seems like the dysphoria initially manifested as "shit everything would be fine if I was just a girl instead". It's understandable some poor kid could end up that way in those circumstances. Of course this dude later dealt with it and never went troon, finding other means more effective for handling the issue. It's anecdotal but I wouldn't be surprised if a significant subset of people with gender dysphoria had a similar experience.


Well deliberately limiting your dating pool a ton is probably astupid thing to do. That said I never chose to be attracted to women so I can only assume gay dudes never chose to be attracted to men.
I think it's fine if you aren't going to go the hormones/dick chop route, you will be laughed at yes, but there's really no point in chimping out over that. Just be fine to be a permavirgin.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Dude's not a virgin and he's not effeminate anymore (highschool bullying broke him of that). He gets by with cognitive psychology techniques and oddly swears by meditation as a way to control the negative feelings associated with the disorder. He gets along fine. I guess he's just repressing and brainwashed and needs to get a dick chop ASAP to be his true self though according to troon ideology. Even though he'd readily admit he's not cured by any means. It's just symptom management. But then, that's all the hormones and surgery are too. Sadly a true cure for this stuff is probably a very long way off.
 

Fat Pikachu

Is your privilege running? You better go check it!
kiwifarms.net
I think it's a moot point to discuss who's a "real" trans person and who isn't, because I believe that as a whole they are living a lie. So yeah, some are less annoying and more sane but on the whole ... It reminds me of another Current Year(tm) discussion, where people on either side point at "well look illegal immigrants are all precious angels who follow the law!" or "illegal immigrants commit so much crime!" because illegal immigration is already breaking the law (duh), leaving one strike each, so saying arguing all these edge cases is dumb because we're talking specifically about crossing the border illegally, not what you do with your life after. Same boat.

So it always strikes me as counterproductive when the same conversation comes up on kf like "some trans are good" or "real evidence of troon agp" because that's missing the point. I dick around a lot on the transcow threads on here but I honestly see these people as victims, of themselves and of a social movement that promises all the answers and delivers none.

I've yet to meet a trans person who had the perfect life--happy, popular, stable family, lots of friends, no hardship. There's always some trauma lurking there and you can say as often as you want that it doesn't affect your decisions but even when you're years and years removed, it does. So you have a group of hurt, broken people who need to feel normal for once. What do you think's gonna happen? It's not shameful (mostly) but it is extremely sad. If I didn't laugh I'd cry.
 

Sprig of Parsley

kiwifarms.net
I keep wondering why people were so intent on striking transgenderism from the DSM. I don't buy the stigma argument, because I don't think the stigma has nearly as much to do with it having been in the DSM as it does with the fact that it flies in the face of... well, lots of things. The notion that you can not only be a female brain in a male body alone is strange but the idea that you can even "know" you're a woman in a man's body absolutely boggles. That's like me saying I'm Napoleon Bonaparte in some American schlub's body. I can read about Napoleon, see pictures of him, but how can I possibly think like him? We have quotes and biographies but we don't know every little thing that went on inside his head that made him, him. I can doff a silly hat and a fancy uniform and ride about on a white horse speaking French and glaring at Englishmen and say Napoleon things and eat things he ate but... I'm not actually him. I don't have any frame of reference for exactly what it's like to THINK like Napoleon. I might think I think like him, but how do I know?

There's a surprising amount of subtle crap involved with being one thing or the other, and accounting for individuality within one of those groups of things. Transgendered people strike me as people who think it's simply enough to attempt to ape the sex they think they are as hard as they can, even tacking to (strangely enough) distinct stereotypes about sex differences. One person I used to talk to a lot described it as a kind of unintentional parody or pastiche depending on how you looked at it.

I'm still convinced that the key to actually helping transgendered people lies in looking at other dysmorphic disorders, and that shouting down Johns Hopkins was not a victory for anybody.
 

AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I keep wondering why people were so intent on striking transgenderism from the DSM. I don't buy the stigma argument, because I don't think the stigma has nearly as much to do with it having been in the DSM as it does with the fact that it flies in the face of... well, lots of things.
If it's not a disorder, why should even a single penny of taxpayer money be spent on "treating" something that's just some elective thing someone decided to be?
 

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