Serious LGBT Discussion -

Surf and TERF

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In regard to the current topic, I think David Sedaris articulates this issue well when he talks about his own attempts to find a monogamous boyfriend.

Almost all of the gay couples I knew at that time had some sort of an arrangement. Boyfriend A could sleep with someone else as long as he didn’t bring him home—or as long as he did bring him home. And boyfriend B was free to do the same. It was a good setup for those who enjoyed variety and the thrill of the hunt, but to me it was just scary, and way too much work—like having one job while applying for another. One boyfriend was all I could handle, all I wanted to handle, really, and while I found this to be perfectly natural, my friends saw it as a form of repression and came to view me as something of a puritan. Am I? I wondered. But there were buckles to polish, and stones to kneel upon, and so I put the question out of my mind.

I needed a boyfriend as conventional as I was, and luckily I found one—just met him one evening through a mutual friend. I was thirty-three and Hugh had just turned thirty. Like me, he had recently broken up with someone, and had moved to New York to start over. His former boyfriend had been a lot like mine, and we spent our first few weeks comparing notes. “Did he ever say he was going out for a hamburger and then—”

“—hook up with someone he’d met that afternoon on a bus? Yes!”

We had a few practical things in common as well, but what really brought Hugh and me together was our mutual fear of abandonment and group sex. It was a foundation, and we built on it, adding our fears of aids and pierced nipples, of commitment ceremonies and the loss of self-control. In dreams sometimes I’ll discover a handsome stranger waiting in my hotel room. He’s usually someone I’ve seen earlier that day, on the street or in a television commercial, and now he’s naked and beckoning me toward the bed. I look at my key, convinced that I have the wrong room, and when he springs forward and reaches for my zipper I run for the door, which is inevitably made of snakes or hot tar, one of those maddening, hard-to-clean building materials so often used in dreams. The handle moves this way and that, and while struggling to grab it I stammer an explanation as to why I can’t go through with this. “I have a boyfriend, see, and, well, the thing is that he’d kill me if he ever found out I’d been, you know, unfaithful or anything.”

Really, though, it’s not the fear of Hugh’s punishment that stops me.
The full short story (less relevant, but available in case anyone is interested:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/11/29/old-faithful

I try not to drop loaded links like this into a conversation, but his work has felt relatable lately. It might resonate with others here.
 

UntimelyDhelmise

Rusty Recluse
kiwifarms.net
Something that I don't see brought up a whole lot is how bisexuals have the tendency to be seen as the black sheep of LGBT, as in even their own "allies" turn against them more often than not.

As a bisexual myself, I went to a gay-orientated Discord server several months ago just for kicks. Didn't take long to experience anti-bi tendencies from the other guys there, being treated like an outsider because bisexuals "Aren't faithful" or whatever (because gays have such a good track record with that am I right?) so I left not 24 hours later. I had heard about bi discrimination in passing before, but it was the first instance I had seen it personally. Really says something that even beyond the transgender fiasco going on lately there's still so much in-fighting among their own kind.
 

VIVIIXI

kiwifarms.net
Something that I don't see brought up a whole lot is how bisexuals have the tendency to be seen as the black sheep of LGBT, as in even their own "allies" turn against them more often than not.

As a bisexual myself, I went to a gay-orientated Discord server several months ago just for kicks. Didn't take long to experience anti-bi tendencies from the other guys there, being treated like an outsider because bisexuals "Aren't faithful" or whatever (because gays have such a good track record with that am I right?) so I left not 24 hours later. I had heard about bi discrimination in passing before, but it was the first instance I had seen it personally. Really says something that even beyond the transgender fiasco going on lately there's still so much in-fighting among their own kind.
I have a hypothesis.

I could kind of understand if someone dated a bi-sexual and had a really bad "they left me for the opposite sex" experience. It may be that it leaves them feeling extra insecure because when the bi leaves them for the opposite sex the bi is effectively leaving them for someone who can give them things they can't (like children). It's something that gays simply can't compete with (at this time).

Still a stupid bias, but by nature most biases inherently are.

I might as well say it right now that I'm bisexual myself and had been for about a year. I usually kept it in even though I'm usually an extrovert.
A relative who was bi was adamant that he was gay even when he occasionally banged girls post-closet. I'm still not sure why he could admit to liking men, but not both men and women. As far as I know, this was before he had any sort of encounter with the gay community (I was the first one he talked to about it, since I had been out for years), so I don't think it would have been due to that weird community stigma.
 

Bob Page

Electronic Old Gendo Ikari
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
A relative who was bi was adamant that he was gay even when he occasionally banged girls post-closet. I'm still not sure why he could admit to liking men, but not both men and women. As far as I know, this was before he had any sort of encounter with the gay community (I was the first one he talked to about it, since I had been out for years), so I don't think it would have been due to that weird community stigma.
Yeah, for bi's, we go both ways and don't care for preference towards either man or woman.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
Yeah, for bi's, we go both ways and don't care for preference towards either man or woman.
Some demonstrate preference for one over the other but not to the point of outright exclusion. What tips that balance is anyone's guess but it's entirely possible to find both sexually attractive but harbor a distinct preference for one.
 

swampsurface

Unholy Gunt Of Apathy
kiwifarms.net
It's never enough that you're gay or lesbian or whatever. If you're a white male homosexual it's not true oppression and they'll barf into your ear about the "terrible" things white male homosexuals engage in. At this point you have to be a gay black polysexual disabled transwoman/man for people to give a shit about you.

What caused me to dissociate from the LGBT crowd as well as politics altogether is the severe fixation on political alliances. It just amazes me how many Marxist-Leninists there are despite the fact that pretty much every ML regime persecuted homosexuals. Don't get me wrong, the anarchists are just as bad from a different direction. It's all about ideological purity. They claim to be about self-criticism but devote their existence to shitting on others.

Sorry for the rant, I'm still pretty infuriated how many years I wasted engaging and participating in this regressive, self-defeating circle of people.
 

UntimelyDhelmise

Rusty Recluse
kiwifarms.net
Some demonstrate preference for one over the other but not to the point of outright exclusion. What tips that balance is anyone's guess but it's entirely possible to find both sexually attractive but harbor a distinct preference for one.
I can definitely say that bisexual preferences are highly individualistic. Some may like one sex more than the other, others like both equally, and still others like either gender for different reasons. It's like a multi-tiered sliding scale of sorts.

I know for a fact when I initially accept my bisexuality I liked guys physically and women both physically and romantically (as in I couldn't view myself in a serious relationship with a man, but on the flip side liked them more physically than women). Though now it's evened out somewhat to the point where I could see myself dating a guy.
 

AlexJonesGotMePregnant

do you are have stupid
kiwifarms.net
I think someone feeling extra salty after breaking up because their former lover was bi is probably just looking for any reason to be extra salty. Mentally healthy people don't indulge in that sort of victimization, but idiots sure do love to.
 

Bob Page

Electronic Old Gendo Ikari
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I can definitely say that bisexual preferences are highly individualistic. Some may like one sex more than the other, others like both equally, and still others like either gender for different reasons. It's like a multi-tiered sliding scale of sorts.

I know for a fact when I initially accept my bisexuality I liked guys physically and women both physically and romantically (as in I couldn't view myself in a serious relationship with a man, but on the flip side liked them more physically than women).
That's how it is for me. I may prefer one sex over the other but I like them both regardless.
 

Give Her The D

angry punk rock reject
True & Honest Fan
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Does anyone ever think part of the Western world's problem with demands for mass censorship is due to the whole LGBT pride thing? I mean, there really is nothing wrong with being gay/trans/whatever, but I think it's made that whole community so sensitive it caused anti-free speech movements to go mainstream with the gay (mostly trans) community's demand to never be offended ever in their life.
 
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Cactus Wings

Coughing for Cash
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I think someone feeling extra salty after breaking up because their former lover was bi is probably just looking for any reason to be extra salty. Mentally healthy people don't indulge in that sort of victimization, but idiots sure do love to.
It's common to dislike your ex, but in this case I think it's extra salt in the wound that they're open enough to be bi/pan. Someone comfortable enough with themselves to go beyond "well I was just born straight/gay". Ironically amidst all this mental gymnastics about sexuality and gender, being specifically into one, the other, or both, is surprisingly concrete and hard to handle for many. "I can love anything" isn't a sign of experience or consideration.
 
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Old Wizard

is donning the attire of the archmage
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It's common to dislike your ex, but in this case I think it's extra salt in the wound that they're open enough to be bi/pan. Someone comfortable enough with themselves to go beyond "well I was just born straight/gay". Ironically amidst all this mental gymnastics about sexuality and gender, being specifically into one, the other, or both, is surprisingly concrete and hard to handle for many. "I can love anything" isn't a sign of experience or consideration.
I think seeing your ex-partner in a heterosexual relationship kind of pushes an insecurity and guilt button in a lot of LGB folk. It makes you wonder if there was something you couldn't give them, either physically or socially. There's a lot of mental stress that comes with being LGB in a conservative state or eastern country, and for bisexuals appearing straight can be appealing, just to avoid social ostracization, assault, or death. I think there's some guilt in being bi with a same-sex bi partner, knowing that being in a hetero relationship could be a lot easier for them. If anyone were to harass them because of their relationship with me, I would feel terrible, and I think a lot of heterosexuals would say the same.
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
I think seeing your ex-partner in a heterosexual relationship kind of pushes an insecurity and guilt button in a lot of LGB folk. It makes you wonder if there was something you couldn't give them, either physically or socially.
Well, yeah, there probably was, but that's likely your problem and not theirs and it's shitty to try and put that on them.
 

Old Wizard

is donning the attire of the archmage
kiwifarms.net
Well, yeah, there probably was, but that's likely your problem and not theirs and it's shitty to try and put that on them.
What part of "It makes you wonder if there was something YOU couldn't give them" is "putting that on them"? I'm just trying to explain why people feel the way they do.

When I say "It makes you wonder if there was something you couldn't give them, either physically or socially" I mean on the basis of your sex. When you say "There probably was", do you mean that bisexuals break up with same-sex gays/bis because there is something inherently missing about homosexual relationships?
 

Sprig of Parsley

Damnation dignified
kiwifarms.net
What part of "It makes you wonder if there was something YOU couldn't give them" is "putting that on them"? I'm just trying to explain why people feel the way they do.

When I say "It makes you wonder if there was something you couldn't give them, either physically or socially" I mean on the basis of your sex. When you say "There probably was", do you mean that bisexuals break up with same-sex gays/bis because there is something inherently missing about homosexual relationships?
When I say "putting it on them" I mean the whole guilt trip that follows when an ex-partner tries to get you to explain what it was they couldn't offer. I've never been THAT bad a communicator in my relationships so if you seriously don't know what it is that made me decide it wasn't working, you weren't paying attention anyway. (Basically, quit worrying about "what do they have that I don't?" because you're just going to use it against me anyway.)

As for something being inherently missing? Honestly, there is something missing at times. Things like the mutual understanding that I'd rather this remain an exclusive relationship, or (as terrible as it sounds) the ability to walk around in public in some places with my partner without people getting cute about it. Latter's certainly not their fault, to be fair.
 
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AnOminous

do you see what happens
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
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Does anyone ever think part of the Western world's problem with demands for mass censorship is due to the whole LGBT pride thing? I mean, there really is nothing wrong with being gay/trans/whatever, but I think it's made that whole community so sensitive it caused anti-free speech movements to go mainstream with the gay (mostly trans) community's demand to never be offended ever in their life.
Ironically those dumb motherfuckers would be the first silenced if stamping out speech other people don't like became a legal thing. Do these morons think most people really love some bunch of degenerates rampaging around in chaps with their asses showing waving a goddamn dildo in each hand screaming about how much cock they suck is popular speech?
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Absolutely true about the first point, that's true. It's not exactly being homosexual that causes the issues, either. It's just that for some reason, homosexuals are especially prone to a wide range of dysfunctions, and that tendency remains even after you control for other factors. More likely to have personality disorders, commit suicide, be pedophiles, be hyperpromiscuous, get dread diseases (due to buggery)
Even without promiscuity sexually transmitted diseases penetrate into small communities better. Same reason lots of furries are HIV positive even though let's face it, furries don't get all that much sex.
 

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