Serious LGBT Discussion -

XeXerself

kiwifarms.net
You make an excellent point here. I used to be very critical of the gender-nonconforming gays and lesbians because it seemed like being a part of the community meant dressing and acting a certain way, and I had no interest in becoming a stereotype. However, I learned to accept that my current freedoms were a result of those who couldn't (or refused to) fit in and that my attitude wasn't much different from straight, homophobic people.
Same, another reason why I was so adverse to the "stereotypical gays" was because being so deep in the closet made me homophobic; I wanted to just be "the good, normal kind, not a weird flamer" so people would leave me alone. I assume this is the motive for a lot of other gay people who act like this.
 

Scarlett Johansson

Hello, I'm Shelley Duvall
True & Honest Fan
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What I find intersting is that its super easy for gay men to get sex with other gay men. Because we are men, ask us to get naked ...and boom.. off comes our clothes. Straight guys have to beg, plea, write poetry to get a girl to show part of her boob. They have to work for it (most the time)
That's the thing. Grindr is a cesspit of gays who are so into specific types its rather irritating. NO FATS NO FEMS NO DARKIES LAWL but yet you get by because society considers you attractive like......it is stupid.
 

Vingle

I'm Kaito Momota, Luminary of the Stars! 百田 解斗
kiwifarms.net
I mean, yeah it’s easier to get laid. I’ve tried that, hookups that is, but hookups just can’t beat a loving relationship with someone else, and that’s much harder to find.
Not exactly ’hard to find‘ in an incel way, but more like people are so used to hooking up that an actual relationship isn’t what many people seem to be looking for.
It's hard for what you said, and the one who do seek a relationship. Tend to be the ugly and unstable ones no one wants to have anything with.


But to say a bit more about my distaste for gender non confirming gays. I'm not anywhere being into the closet, and I'm not exactly super masc myself. Point is. Acting fem for a gay man is learned behaviour. Someone did groom them, It's exactly like muslim women in the West saying that hijab isn't oppressive of women.
I don't believe fem gay men are being "themselves".
Sure, the gender non conforming gays did get us our rights in the past, but honestly. I don't want the rights, if it enables freaks. It damages the movement more than it helps. It's the reason for why troons are a risk to society.
Same, another reason why I was so adverse to the "stereotypical gays" was because being so deep in the closet made me homophobic; I wanted to just be "the good, normal kind, not a weird flamer" so people would leave me alone. I assume this is the motive for a lot of other gay people who act like this.
It's only homophobia if you show a distaste for someone being attracted to it's gender. I don't know if you are intentionally saying it, but you aren't magically something that can't choose if they want to be a troon or not. Just because you're gay. That's the real homophobia, and I'm sorry you got groomed into thinking this. Most gays are toxic and something you have to be very careful around.
 

Puerto Pollo

kiwifarms.net
That's the thing. Grindr is a cesspit of gays who are so into specific types its rather irritating. NO FATS NO FEMS NO DARKIES LAWL but yet you get by because society considers you attractive like......it is stupid.

All online dating (yeah dating, lol) platforms are like that. Bears want a specific percentage of body hair and that fucking beard became mandatory these days, twinks want chads, chads want twinks and jocks, jocks want their balls drained by whatever impossible standard and body fat percentage before dropping it 99.9% down on a lazy saturday night. Fat guys might as well kill themselves or hope some weird chaser is in town. Being gay is no picnic but from what I hear from my straight friends it's still preferable to whatever collective mental illnesses possessed straight women these days.
 

Vingle

I'm Kaito Momota, Luminary of the Stars! 百田 解斗
kiwifarms.net
All online dating (yeah dating, lol) platforms are like that. Bears want a specific percentage of body hair and that fucking beard became mandatory these days, twinks want chads, chads want twinks and jocks, jocks want their balls drained by whatever impossible standard and body fat percentage before dropping it 99.9% down on a lazy saturday night. Fat guys might as well kill themselves or hope some weird chaser is in town. Being gay is no picnic but from what I hear from my straight friends it's still preferable to whatever collective mental illnesses possessed straight women these days.
And fems rather die than being together with another fem. It's quite ironic, they get mad af being for rejecting them for being fem. But nah, hell would freeze over before they go for another half troon like themselves:biggrin:
 

XeXerself

kiwifarms.net
It's only homophobia if you show a distaste for someone being attracted to it's gender. I don't know if you are intentionally saying it, but you aren't magically something that can't choose if they want to be a troon or not. Just because you're gay. That's the real homophobia, and I'm sorry you got groomed into thinking this. Most gays are toxic and something you have to be very careful around.
No, I don't agree. It's more complex than that and (for me and other people I talked to who used to act like this) it was both a distate for same-sex attraction AND cultural markers that people associate with being gay in general. As in like, "being gay is weird but if you act normal and aren't in-your-face about your lifestyle then you aren't as bad as THOSE kinds". I have no idea what troons have to do with this since modern trans issues are so different than the original focus of LGB rights before 2015 in America.

I don't feel that way anymore (closest thing is that I still get annoyed when I see people in over-the-top pride shit, but that's because I associate it with "queers" who think being slightly weird, like being a kinky straight person for example, is the same as being LGB. I also don't exact love people who make their identity their entire personality but I notice that's something one-dimensional people in general do, I dislike people who make facets like enjoying anime or whatever to be their personality just as much).
 

CivilianOfTheFandomWars

Living It
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On the subject of ‘fems’, I kind of have a different view on it. I don’t think there’s much wrong with being a feminine guy or a masculine woman, it’s when you use that as an excuse to be a bitch that it gets annoying.
I can’t speak much about women, not my field, but with gays there are definitely some where it’s like a countdown to trooning out. You just get the feeling it’s not gonna end well.
But, you do occasionally get one that is feminine, but is clearly confident in being a man so that it’s more of a personal style choice than ‘just trying to fit in’. I don’t mind those guys at all, if you look better in a woman’s jacket or whatever, then go you.
I guess just in general, I’m very tolerant of people who aren’t complete spastics.
But the biggest issue I see is how a large amount of gays who have feminine tendencies are target number one for the egg-hatching crowd.
 

Vingle

I'm Kaito Momota, Luminary of the Stars! 百田 解斗
kiwifarms.net
No, I don't agree. It's more complex than that and (for me and other people I talked to who used to act like this) it was both a distate for same-sex attraction AND cultural markers that people associate with being gay in general. As in like, "being gay is weird but if you act normal and aren't in-your-face about your lifestyle then you aren't as bad as THOSE kinds". I have no idea what troons have to do with this since modern trans issues are so different than the original focus of LGB rights before 2015 in America.

I don't feel that way anymore (closest thing is that I still get annoyed when I see people in over-the-top pride shit, but that's because I associate it with "queers" who think being slightly weird, like being a kinky straight person for example, is the same as being LGB. I also don't exact love people who make their identity their entire personality but I notice that's something one-dimensional people in general do, I dislike people who make facets like enjoying anime or whatever to be their personality just as much).
I don't even like straights that are in your face about it either. While you can disagree, it doesn't chance the true definition of homophobia. If you got a distaste for same-sex attraction, it's homophobia. Everything else is reddit-tier SJW material.
Fem gay men tend to look like a troons.

Surprise surprise, fem gay men are one dimensional.

if you look better in a woman’s jacket or whatever, then go you.
It will look like shit, men and women clothes have different cuts to suit the different bodies. Not going to necessarily say something, but I'm still judging the hell out of the fashion disaster.
 

CivilianOfTheFandomWars

Living It
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I don't even like straights that are in your face about it either. While you can disagree, it doesn't chance the true definition of homophobia. If you got a distaste for same-sex attraction, it's homophobia. Everything else is reddit-tier SJW material.
Fem gay men tend to look like a troons.

Surprise surprise, fem gay men are one dimensional.


It will look like shit, men and women clothes have different cuts to suit the different bodies. Not going to necessarily say something, but I'm still judging the hell out of the fashion disaster.
Look, it’s rare, but I do know guys who can look great in a woman’s cut, and even then it’s not every single piece of woman’s clothes that they can pull off.
 

DiscoRodeo

kiwifarms.net
I have given up on having any new gay friends, after a while. They want to fuck me and then they get mad for me not wanting.
Same, which ironically made me more prone to the gender crit point that men are more sexually aggressive than women, which is fair enough. Most men aren't predators, but having gay men go after me aggressively and gay friends attempt that really turned me off the experience.
 

Banditotron

What's the ugliest part of your body?
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Stating preferences is biology at work - nothing more or less.
I think the issue is people having really specific standards when, for lack of a nicer way of putting it, can't meet standards themselves.
Like, I'd like to say "only apply if you're a beautiful silken haired Adonis with lips that would make angels weep and an 8 inch dick or if you're a 10/10 big titty women's sports star with built in watermelon crushing action" on my dating profiles but the reason I don't say that is because I've got no room to be demanding nietzsche's ubermensch when I'm, you know, average at best.
 

Kornula

kiwifarms.net
I think the issue is people having really specific standards when, for lack of a nicer way of putting it, can't meet standards themselves.
Like, I'd like to say "only apply if you're a beautiful silken haired Adonis with lips that would make angels weep and an 8 inch dick or if you're a 10/10 big titty women's sports star with built in watermelon crushing action" on my dating profiles but the reason I don't say that is because I've got no room to be demanding nietzsche's ubermensch when I'm, you know, average at best.
I disagree even there. Most guys I know who have those preferences offline (you know, in real life) are most the time (probably over 75%) are into a refelction of themselves.., Youngish.. sculpted body, good looks. This is basically "triablism" also at work. Granted, you are right, there are quite a few who set higher standards for themselves they cannot meet. Heck, I find myself wanting the porn star body. However, I'm not self absorbed enough to ignore my own shortcomings; I'm old and fat..but I'm 6'5" and still handsome. I will seek out guys who give me signals they are into me first.

but yeah, there are a handful of delusional self absorbed fags who refuse to accept reality.
 

Puerto Pollo

kiwifarms.net
I disagree even there. Most guys I know who have those preferences offline (you know, in real life) are most the time (probably over 75%) are into a refelction of themselves.., Youngish.. sculpted body, good looks. This is basically "triablism" also at work. Granted, you are right, there are quite a few who set higher standards for themselves they cannot meet. Heck, I find myself wanting the porn star body. However, I'm not self absorbed enough to ignore my own shortcomings; I'm old and fat..but I'm 6'5" and still handsome. I will seek out guys who give me signals they are into me first.

but yeah, there are a handful of delusional self absorbed fags who refuse to accept reality.

I swear 99 percent of couples are either indistinguishable from siblings, a weird combination of handsome and fugly, two fugly, but almost never two handsome, at least not in the long term, and that's the biggest red flag in the world because nobody will ever be good enough for them for more than a year or so.

About signaling first...yeah, here's some feels. The soul can take only that much rejection, at some point you just show appreciation for good manners, grammar and eyes that communicate anything more than a 300.000 cocks stare.
 

mr spongecake

kiwifarms.net
Question to those of you here who are pro-LGB but anti-T: why?

It seems like the LGB at large tend to be pro-T, and this makes sense. The philosophical underpinnings of pro-LGB rhetoric and thought are the exact same used to justify "trans validity" and other pro-trans stances. Justification for LGB stems from queer theory and a libertarian-esque individualism when it comes to sex and gender identity. I'm not saying all - or even most - lesbians and gays read Foucault or Anzaldúa, but their line of thinking and structuring of their arguments is either heavily influenced or the exact same (yes this includes those in this thread). I can't even think of a valid anti-trans argument that couldn't also be spun to justify outright homophobia.

Note that I don't support T, I think it's a mental illness and stems from the same places as other mental illnesses, but in general I'd say the same is true with LGB.
 
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