Serious LGBT Discussion -

Puerto Pollo

kiwifarms.net
If you don't mind, here's a scrambled list of random interactions with troons according to people I know, and my own of course. Timeline is about 2 decades of a gay man's life in Europe, so this is even before troons became the most important issue of western civilization (thanks Obongo).

Prostitution; starting a relationship with someone then blackmailing him as soon as he wanted to break it off; histrionic behavior in public, literally behaving like some crazy anime character irl; pathological liar, pretending to have a brain cancer and trying to get money from strangers out of it; drugs; aggressively cruising men in clubs, ending up rejected and causing such a scene the owner threatens to call the police; putting a webcam in the women's restroom; digging a glory hole in the public library bathroom; sleeping with a married man, then sending videos to his wife and kids on facebook because he wouldn't pay for a holiday abroad; getting invited to a friend's family dinner and talking about genital electrocution as a sexual practice.

Have I met particularly unlucky people or do we have a problem with the T?
 

Cool kitties club

The coolest cat in the silver age
kiwifarms.net
Question to those of you here who are pro-LGB but anti-T: why?

It seems like the LGB at large tend to be pro-T, and this makes sense. The philosophical underpinnings of pro-LGB rhetoric and thought are the exact same used to justify "trans validity" and other pro-trans stances. Justification for LGB stems from queer theory and a libertarian-esque individualism when it comes to sex and gender identity. I'm not saying all - or even most - lesbians and gays read Foucault or Anzaldúa, but their line of thinking and structuring of their arguments is either heavily influenced or the exact same (yes this includes those in this thread). I can't even think of a valid anti-trans argument that couldn't also be spun to justify outright homophobia.

Note that I don't support T, I think it's a mental illness and stems from the same places as other mental illnesses, but in general I'd say the same is true with LGB.

I would like to have sympathy for the genuinely mentally ill trannies, but similar the "gay community" the "trans community" has be turned into a battery ram against society itself. Being gay is not intrinsically linked to "gay culture" and much of my criticisms of the trans community would fall back on mainstream gay culture It is just that trannies are uglier and more vocally annoying compared to other queers.
 

polonium

By your genders combined, I am Captain Tumblr
True & Honest Fan
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Question to those of you here who are pro-LGB but anti-T: why?
Even setting aside the whole issue of mental health, T shouldn't be lumped in with GLB because T issues aren't GLB issues. We're not confused about our gender identity, we're constantly lectured that trannies are women, well women in general don't belong with GLB either, unless they're lesbian. And if they are, they can talk about lesbian shit at GLB events, pride matches or whatever and have a separate one for tranny talking points, the same way that if a straight woman tried to turn pride into straight feminist marches they'd be pushed out.

I generally hate pride marches but I got dragged to one a few years ago and the whole thing was infested with tranny shit and they were carrying signs that said "This is our pride" and the like. One tranny dude was kind of working the crowd as they marched along and tried to get me to shake his hand, to the point of trying to grab my arm and put his hand in mine to shake it. I said "Consent doesn't mean anything to you people, does it" and he fucking hustled off.

That's my problem with trannies: Their issues aren't anything to do with GLB issues but they force their way in and demand we pander to them and make everything about trannies, and then worst of all they behave in the creepiest most sexual-predatoryish skeevy ways and make everyone look bad by reflection.

Never mind what the public-facing organisations do and say, homos generally don't like trannies and don't want them hanging around. The last time I was out late at a gay bar (with my then fiance), there was one hulking male-pattern-balding tranny standing in the middle of a giant empty space with nobody around him and I didn't see one person talk with or associate with him the whole time we were there.
 
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mr spongecake

kiwifarms.net
For all who answered: thank you. I have a better understanding of where you're coming from.
Never mind what the public-facing organisations do and say, homos generally don't like trannies and don't want them hanging around
Is this the truth? I wouldn't be surprised given gaslighting that goes on nowadays, but I would still be very surprised.
 

XeXerself

kiwifarms.net
Is this the truth? I wouldn't be surprised given gaslighting that goes on nowadays, but I would still be very surprised.
It mostly depends on the individual LG person's knowledge of the trans issue (and personal experiences dealing with trans people) and the kind of trans people they're dealing with. I know back in the day, the T was there in the first place because some LG people transitioned (I'm not very educated on the history of bisexuals who trooned, sorry) but still felt some connection to the community (not to mention transsexualism was seen as "taking gayness to the next level"). "Normie" gays and lesbians generally don't really care about homosexual (and some bisexual) transsexuals or see them as one of their own (not all, obviously, I know a good amount gay people see HSTS as traitors giving into their self-hatred and things like that).

I've read tons of "Peak Trans" stories (AKA the moment where someone goes from being a trans ally to critical/unsupportive of the movement), and the majority of them from gay people (including me, lol) happen when they meet a "transbian" or "gay transman/Aiden" who basically lived their whole lives as straight people and transition because they're so obsessed with gay media and gay people that they want to "become gay" too (it's no coincidence that a lot of transbians love yuri and Aidens love yaoi and claim they discovered their identity through it). And the tide has turn that a lot of spaces for gay and bisexual people are full of these straight people who trooned out for fetish purposes; There are so many lesbians who get pissed when a transwoman that doesn't even pass messages them on dating apps and gay men who have been harassed by transmen sending them vagina pics on Grindr - and you can't even politely turn down most of these people without getting backlash. That's where a big part of the animosity from LGBs who used to be allies and Ts comes from.

I'm drunk so this post is probably retarded and makes no sense and I'll regret publishing it, lol. I'm not wholly anti-trans (I don't give a shit what people do to themselves as long as they know what they're getting into and don't rope others into it; the issue is that most of them do try to get everyone else to play along) but I understand movements like "Drop The T"/"Get The L Out"/"LGB Alliance" because the issues that LGB people have (wanting to be able to marry and have relationships with other adults of the same sex without getting hate crimed or disowned by family, wanting to ban religious people from putting them through therapy to make them become straight, etc.) with what the trans movement is pushing (basically bending reality and the meaning of words to cater to their feelings, roping children into transitioning, silencing detransitioners, etc.) are so different I wonder why they're still being lumped together. It's like how people on Tumblr tried really hard to lump LGB with the Asexuality community, it just doesn't work out in the long run.
 

Puerto Pollo

kiwifarms.net
For all who answered: thank you. I have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

Is this the truth? I wouldn't be surprised given gaslighting that goes on nowadays, but I would still be very surprised.

There's always the woke lefty sjw faggot poisoning the wells for attention and validation, but the overwhelming majority of gay men wants nothing to do with them. Conforming to the common thought in the contemporary woke society is an issue, but let's not fool ourselves into believing that gay men feel anything but contempt for women, especially women larping as men/men larping as women. The stuff you hear about women in a gay bar is Afghanistan sharia law tier.
 

Kornula

kiwifarms.net
I swear 99 percent of couples are either indistinguishable from siblings, a weird combination of handsome and fugly, two fugly, but almost never two handsome, at least not in the long term, and that's the biggest red flag in the world because nobody will ever be good enough for them for more than a year or so.

About signaling first...yeah, here's some feels. The soul can take only that much rejection, at some point you just show appreciation for good manners, grammar and eyes that communicate anything more than a 300.000 cocks stare.
One, that is again, "triabliasm" at work driving our sexual attraction.
Two; the longer a couple stays together, the more likely they will manage to look similar.. The chance of it happening skyrockets if they already look similar enough. But don't fret, you're very likelyi not related -IF - you can't stand the smell of each other.. literally. If you really like and notice the smell of someone else, odds are you are not related...and/or will be super into each other.
 

Kornula

kiwifarms.net
Pride events are odd. Very crowded men in jockstraps and nipple rings and lots of random straight girls there as well.
I was never a fan of the "Pride" parades/events.. even in the 1980s. It astounds me that nearly every single The Gays™ have totally forgotten what the Pride day orginally celebrated; The Gays™ not being arrested for being gay in a gay bar. The federal goverment amended the Civil Rights act to include us... The Gays™ shortly thereafter.

Why does this astound me that The Gays™ seem to forget what we have accomplished (legally speaking)? Today's LGBTLMNOP Alphabet Nazi brigade cries that we The Gays™ are still "oppressed" and "marginalized" by society at large.. When I point out all the major companies like Alaska Airlines, Wells Fargo, Kroger, Heck, even Communist "News" Network gushes on about Gay Pride week is pure acceptance when companies cash in on advertising dollars.. they still manage to cry "victim".

...then you have the actual "Pride" event itself.. which is as you described.. rather shameful display of self indulgence.
 

Souroti

I'm stealing from you
kiwifarms.net
I was never a fan of the "Pride" parades/events.. even in the 1980s. It astounds me that nearly every single The Gays™ have totally forgotten what the Pride day orginally celebrated; The Gays™ not being arrested for being gay in a gay bar. The federal goverment amended the Civil Rights act to include us... The Gays™ shortly thereafter.

Why does this astound me that The Gays™ seem to forget what we have accomplished (legally speaking)? Today's LGBTLMNOP Alphabet Nazi brigade cries that we The Gays™ are still "oppressed" and "marginalized" by society at large.. When I point out all the major companies like Alaska Airlines, Wells Fargo, Kroger, Heck, even Communist "News" Network gushes on about Gay Pride week is pure acceptance when companies cash in on advertising dollars.. they still manage to cry "victim".

...then you have the actual "Pride" event itself.. which is as you described.. rather shameful display of self indulgence.
the "LGBTLMNOP Alphabet Nazi brigade" as you put it doesnt give a shit about genuine homosexual men or women anymore.
 

Banditotron

What's the ugliest part of your body?
True & Honest Fan
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the "LGBTLMNOP Alphabet Nazi brigade" as you put it doesnt give a shit about genuine homosexual men or women anymore.
LGB are the bad guys, to them. No different from nazis or whatever in the eyes of such crazies.
 

Scarlett Johansson

Hello, I'm Shelley Duvall
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
LGB are the bad guys, to them. No different from nazis or whatever in the eyes of such crazies.
"I HAVE RIGHT TO USE THE WAMENS RESTROOM YOURR INVADING MY PERSONAL SPACE YOU TERF YIURR RAPING ME STOP RAPIMG ME I WILL SCREAM. RAAAAAAPE!!!!! RAAAAAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

lol troons really are scary tbh

It's interesting to me about black trans women...ppl seem much more *concerned* about it but what about the man troons lmao
 

Noir drag freak

kiwifarms.net
I was never a fan of the "Pride" parades/events.. even in the 1980s. It astounds me that nearly every single The Gays™ have totally forgotten what the Pride day orginally celebrated; The Gays™ not being arrested for being gay in a gay bar. The federal goverment amended the Civil Rights act to include us... The Gays™ shortly thereafter.

Why does this astound me that The Gays™ seem to forget what we have accomplished (legally speaking)? Today's LGBTLMNOP Alphabet Nazi brigade cries that we The Gays™ are still "oppressed" and "marginalized" by society at large.. When I point out all the major companies like Alaska Airlines, Wells Fargo, Kroger, Heck, even Communist "News" Network gushes on about Gay Pride week is pure acceptance when companies cash in on advertising dollars.. they still manage to cry "victim".

...then you have the actual "Pride" event itself.. which is as you described.. rather shameful display of self indulgence.

The problem is that I think it's more complicated. I think that there is a "the personal is political" grey area. For one thing, companies may accept you, but what about your parents? Does political/social activism really solved the emotional problems or traumas that LGBs faced? I am at the point where I think that most politics are therapeutic defense mechanisms to work through individual issues.
 

Kornula

kiwifarms.net
The problem is that I think it's more complicated. I think that there is a "the personal is political" grey area. For one thing, companies may accept you, but what about your parents? Does political/social activism really solved the emotional problems or traumas that LGBs faced? I am at the point where I think that most politics are therapeutic defense mechanisms to work through individual issues.
If we as a society have major companies openly sponsoring Gay Pride events all over North America, It's a safe bet parents in general are more accepting. I don't think its grey at all. We have gone past the point of needing gay pride for at least 35 years..

There will always be shitty parents - but that number has been dwindling for decades.
As for "activism" its equally unnecessary as it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt The Gays™ have not needed anything legally to be active for (or against) We are all protected fully under federal law as far as we can or should need. Heck, Alaska's state constitution has individual rights strongly spelled out better than the Federal one.

Furthermore, regarding activism: all I have seen since I came out is The Gays™ bitching, nagging, name calling and outright lying in all that time (1982) None of it has helpled..or been necessary.
 

Noir drag freak

kiwifarms.net
If we as a society have major companies openly sponsoring Gay Pride events all over North America, It's a safe bet parents in general are more accepting. I don't think its grey at all. We have gone past the point of needing gay pride for at least 35 years..

There will always be shitty parents - but that number has been dwindling for decades.
As for "activism" its equally unnecessary as it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt The Gays™ have not needed anything legally to be active for (or against) We are all protected fully under federal law as far as we can or should need. Heck, Alaska's state constitution has individual rights strongly spelled out better than the Federal one.

Furthermore, regarding activism: all I have seen since I came out is The Gays™ bitching, nagging, name calling and outright lying in all that time (1982) None of it has helpled..or been necessary.

I guess you're right. I watched this movie called "Straight UP!" about this "gay" guy that starting dating a woman through they didn't have sex. One scene that touched me was when the guy's father hugged him and told him he was proud of him. The guy even mentioned that it probably wouldn't happened if he brought home a guy. I think that parent's love and accept their gay children, but prefer it if they were straight.

You make very good points. :)
 

RavenCrow

It's only gay if the balls touch.
kiwifarms.net
I just don’t like them, simple as that. I’ve never met a tranny who wasn’t either doing it for woke points or the “fuck you mom and dad! I’m an edgy rebel!” mentality. I’ve never met a tranny who wasn’t a neurotic nutcase that acts like a 14 year old girl on Tumblr (no trannies, that’s NOT a compliment) I’ve never met a tranny that can’t take the hint not everyone wants to fuck them and they’re not a seig heiling Nazi for having preferences. I’ve never met a tranny that wasn’t trying to groom children into trooning out because little Billy might like baking cookies or little Suzy might like shooting hoops with the guys. They’re obnoxious, they’re degenerate, worst than any mincing twinky faggot I’ve seen

100%. I'm gay, and I can admit it isn't exactly normal, but I personally hate being lumped into this tranny bullshit. Every single tranny I've ever met has been nuts. The one I kinda gave a chance as a friend turned out to rape kids. This was someone I met when writing for a newspaper that I interviewed. They "she" seemed fine, but their degeneracy was eventually revealed. I also know a lot of homos who want nothing to do with them too. Yet for some reason we're forced to allow them in "our group" and act like a 6ft tall dude pretending to be a girl is completely normal... when it's actually creepy and likely a sign of severe mental illness.
 

Trianon

kiwifarms.net
Been thinking about a comment I saw on here once about how gender roles develop in opposition directions to help society easily know who is who, subtly performing the most idealized aspects of what makes a man and a woman. This is useful for sexual coupling -- easily finding the man who best fits the protector ideal, easily finding a woman who fits the nurturing ideal, which allows the formation of a strong family unit that's well-balanced. I kind of think these "protector/nurturer" roles are innate, while a lot of gender "signifiers" such as hair length, clothing choices, etc., are arbitrary and can obviously change depending on what society associates with masculinity and femininity at any given time. But no matter what, there are things we expect out of men (be strong, protect the family/tribe, make bold decisions, be responsible) and women (raise emotionally strong children, transmit society's values and stories, heal, rejuvenate, knit people together) that, ideally, forms a perfect loop where no sex is taking on too much of the burden necessary to have a healthy family/society. Of course, there's a lot of variation within all women, who may resent being seen as the caregivers, but by virtue of not being as physically strong, and by virtue of childbirth naturally increasing caregiving hormones, well. It's true. Men should be allowed to exhibit emotion, women should be allowed to be assertive, but there are still basics we check for when deciding who to raise kids with. It takes both of those roles, but men were created or evolved to be at the front of the line when it comes to taking on the violence of the rest of the world, and so it makes sense that a lot of our gendered ideas about men are about emphasizing their strength in some way.

So, once we get to troonism, it's a deliberate blurring of those gender signifiers. Generally troons and gender-nonconforming types are trying to signal, "Hey, I'm a girl, but I'm a protector type, and I want to be seen that way," or "I'm a man, but I feel very fragile and dainty." A TERF would say these ideals are not innate to either sex and are just the basis of stereotyping, but either way, the troons want to belong to those ideal roles and live in that part of society.

The problem is that they have no idea how to go about fulfilling those roles other than to LOUDLY ANNOUNCE IT. They play with society's ideas about gender by saying, "Well, if you say I'm not a man, then why? How am I any different from a man who is small and non-muscular? Is he less of a man because of that?" But a small man can still show me that he is a protector type; he may not be as physically imposing as others, but he can be honorable and just, which demonstrates his devotion to his family. But if he was just loudly asserting that he is a man and deserves to be the winner of a barbell competition because of it, it would make me laugh. I would think, "Oh, dear, he's really insecure about his role in society." He feels he isn't a man and wants to go around talking himself up instead of demonstrating qualities that would make him attractive to me.

In the same way, if a small man told me he was really a woman and deserved to just take his place with the rest of the women who don't have to worry about being small, I would laugh. "Oh, dear, he's really insecure about his role in society." Instead of realizing that there are many ways to "be a man" or "be a woman" that signals they will be a good partner, they just have to assert it. It doesn't matter what they're asserting specifically; everyone can pick up on the fact that it's desperate and insecure. A trans woman may spend a lot of time trying to perform the ideal of a woman, but a woman who just stepped up to the plate when something needed to be done without making it about herself would be performing the ideal much more than a trans woman can. Strength of character is at the center of both gender ideals, and while there are some differences in our expectations of the basic needs they should fulfill, we want people who understand the society they're in without needing its approval so badly that they are frozen in action.

Troons fail at every test. Changing your body a lot to be happy with it is a red flag. Talking about yourself and how you're perceived by others all the time is a red flag. Shirking your duty to be a protector or a nurturer because you think there's only one way of doing that is a red flag -- like, are you just selfish? a coward? That's how it comes across. Never getting out of your own head is poison to your self-esteem, and troons just have such an inward-focused way of seeing the world that the rest of society is like, "Oh, you're useless? Ok."
 

Kornula

kiwifarms.net
I guess you're right. I watched this movie called "Straight UP!" about this "gay" guy that starting dating a woman through they didn't have sex. One scene that touched me was when the guy's father hugged him and told him he was proud of him. The guy even mentioned that it probably wouldn't happened if he brought home a guy. I think that parent's love and accept their gay children, but prefer it if they were straight.

You make very good points. :)
When I came out to my parents, my mother expressed almost that sentiment; she still loves me but would have liked grandchildren.. from me. That sentiment is human biology attempting to still preserve itself.

I get a lot of flack for supporting heterosexuality because its how we got here in the first place. It is the norm that was established by the Kinsey report. Ironically - (or coincidentally?) The Gays™ used to embrace it. Now they spurn it. Kinsey's report basically states that less than 1 out of 10 humans will be The Gays™. Even evolutionary biology confirms this hypothesis. I'm content with being less than 10% of the population
 

mario if smoke weed

I'm super duper, with a big tuper.
True & Honest Fan
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Homosexuality and bisexuality aren't inherently bad; they don't prevent making babies like transgenderism does. A gay guy can still breed with a woman if it meant preventing the extinction of humanity or preserving a group of people. They're simply just differences in sexual preference, and that's how it should've been left at from the start.

We don't need these faggoty pride parades where faggots put on oversexualized puppet shows and swing their dildos and jockstraps around. We don't need these faggoty drag queens and RuPaul's Drag Fags to make caricatures of women and exacerbate these idiotic stereotypes of gay people that spread like cancer. And we don't need these retarded alphabet soup groups to make safe spaces and politicize romantic and sexual attraction. All of that made the monster we know as the gay community, full of effeminate low-testosterone walking stereotypes that make homosexuality look like a giant spectacle. Straight people might be a bit annoying by pushing gender norms onto kids at a young age with baby outfits saying "chick magnet", but that's minor.

The fact that transgenderism is being attached to the whole gay movement just because of oppression and togetherness and all this kumbaya shit is disgusting. I agree with RavenCrow's post; homosexuals and bisexuals might not be "normal", but they can be upstanding members of society just like straight people. 99.9% of troons are fucked in the head, hence why they feel the need to mutilate their chemical structure and genitalia. The troon acceptance bandwagon has damaged the legitimacy of gay rights, moreso than the exacerbation of faggotry.

We need to get rid of the oversexualization that happens with gay and bisexual people. Stop the pride parades, stop the drag queen storytime, stop the dumb stereotypes in pop culture. Treat gay and bi people like straight people and give them no special treatment - no special privileges, no overt discrimination preventing them from living safely. It wouldn't solve all the problems under the rainbow, but it'd be a step in the right direction I think.
 

The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

Still Pimpin
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I get a lot of flack for supporting heterosexuality because its how we got here in the first place. It is the norm that was established by the Kinsey report. Ironically - (or coincidentally?) The Gays™ used to embrace it. Now they spurn it. Kinsey's report basically states that less than 1 out of 10 humans will be The Gays™. Even evolutionary biology confirms this hypothesis. I'm content with being less than 10% of the population
This is why I hate the term heteronormativity. Its become just another term to try to slap heterosexual people down with. End of the day, heterosexuality IS the norm, has always been the norm, and will always be the norm, period. Does this make homosexuals weird or unusual? Yes. Does it make them freaks? No. They are still within the range of human sexuality, they are just an OUTLIER, not the norm. And there is nothing wrong with being an outlier. Albert Einstein is an outlier in terms of human intelligence. Usain Bolt and other sprinters like him are outliers in terms of human physical performance. Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals are outliers in terms of human sexuality, with humanity normally being heterosexual. Society catering to the human norm that 90% of humanity falls into is not bad in the slightest. I think actively persecuting gay people is wrong, but Western society has moved past that for the most part. The Muslims are the main ones throwing gays off the rooftops. Instead of trying to attack heterosexuality, gays should probably just embrace their outlier status and accept it.

Funnily enough, the gays that scream "I'm born this way" are inadvertently embracing and drawing a big red arrow towards this outlier status. The main through point of LGBT lobby has been that "gays and lesbians (and bisexuals when they bother to remember them) are just like everybody else". The "born this way" crowd unintentionally shoot this idea full of holes, because they are basically saying "No, we aren't like everybody else. We are fundamentally different from everybody else, all the way from birth. There is something about us, on a physical or genetic level that makes us act differently from "normal" people, and people should acknowledge and embrace our specialness, rather than trying to make us assimilate." Now, this idea seems to have fallen by the wayside, probably a mixture of people realizing the potentially warped messaging, the fact that sexuality has been increasingly shown to not be as immutable as people thought it was, and the fact that there is no scientific evidence right now that gay people are "born that way" and we still don't precisely know where homosexuality comes from.

But it would be hilarious if we did in fact find a "gay gene" because it would probably mean the death of homosexuality in humans. Ever heard of sex selective abortions? Say hello to sexuality selective abortions. Once gene therapy and designer babies becomes a thing, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the first things to happen would be parents specifically change a baby's coded sexuality to make it heterosexual if it wasn't already. I wouldn't be surprised if authoritarian nations like China and Russia even make it a requirement to do so, or nations facing population decline like Japan. The last thing homosexuals would want would be for "born this way" to be true.
 
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