Serious LGBT Discussion

[Ted_Breakfast]

I'm not into incest, but, it probably stems from some familial problem as a kid. Not a psycho whatever, however, the people I know who were into it were either raised in a single parent home, had huge age gaps between siblings, or an imbalance in parental upbringing.

It's just so shocking that anyone would confront you with that incriminating information in the first place. True and Honest Content is a real phenomenon, it seems. I can't imagine how uncomfortable it would be.

 

[GHTD]

i feel like i'm the blacksheep of the trans movement because i couldn't give a shit if anyone but me and the people close to me consider me valid, what do i care if someone on the internet thinks i'm mutilated or some shit. i made my choice, im happy in my choice, happier with myself than i have been since puberty, and that's what should matter in the end, not the opinion of the rest of the world. i feel like if more trans people just stopped giving a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks and just stick to their own friend group who already cares then most transfolk will be a lot happier too.

Not trans here but I feel you. It's just sad to see so many people go into utter fucking rage when you say the slightest of anything.

I got told I'm transphobic once for asking for advice on how to be a better trans ally for instance. How is wanting to support someone's way of life or whatever bad? It's just sad and strange how people react.

 

[formershroomeryuser]

No. You are not being prude. You would be a monster if you thought homosexual incest is ok. Incest is bad.

Have you ever heard of a man named Christian Weston Chandler? He thought incest was ok. He is in jail now.

Simply serving time. Do the crime and serve the time. And things of a nature of being in jail

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Not trans here but I feel you. It's just sad to see so many people go into utter fucking rage when you say the slightest of anything.

I got told I'm transphobic once for asking for advice on how to be a better trans ally for instance. How is wanting to support someone's way of life or whatever bad? It's just sad and strange how people react.

I think most people these days are angry about a whole lot of things at once. People feel trapped in this bullshit. Identity politics is an easy way to be angry without actually demanding much responsibility of yourself

 

[Lu_Kreed]

Not trans here but I feel you. It's just sad to see so many people go into utter fucking rage when you say the slightest of anything.

I got told I'm transphobic once for asking for advice on how to be a better trans ally for instance. How is wanting to support someone's way of life or whatever bad? It's just sad and strange how people react.

Don't even bother. To these kinds of people, the only way to be a better "ally" is to be total bitch. Do not question, do not contradict, just sit down, shut up, and do as your told.

 

[The Rabbit Holes]

from personal observation:
genderspecials, trans, and other lgbtq+ letters who insist on multiple labels or wild identities have ALWAYS suffered some form of outlandish abuse. 90% seems to be the acts of being groomed and/or losing virginity to someone over 18 while under 18 (pedos, exposed to extreme fetishes, porn addiction) and usually having hyper restrictive home lives (homeschooling, christian cults, helicopter parents, parents who suffer from addiction) with a dash of getting beaten.

meanwhile, those who are just plain gay/lesbian or bisexual go through the normal amount of Life Sucking that straight and well adjusted adults do.

proposed correlation here is that the more extreme and vile sexual and repressive trauma you suffer during puberty, the more likely you are wind up using the extreme sides of lgbtq+ as escapism from it.

personally, ive seen the shift in online and IRL grooming and pedos go from generic creepy dudes (late 90, early 2000s) to being more populated by trooned out men (mid 2000s to current). I believe the wider access to extreme porn, consoomer culture, and encouragement by our modern society to stray from habits/religon and towards hedonism has created this shift.


further sperging:
the internet and lack of real psychology and therapy have created a whirlpool same-think vortex into which young people get sucked and can't get out. most of the bad influences in the last 10-20 years across all forms of social media, forums, and real life comes from those who were 25-40 at the time (aka grooming). Tumblr is the greatest and most well known example of this. All it takes is one adult to show 3 traumatized kids extreme porn or off-the-wall world views and suddenly you have an infection of "otherkin" or "yaoi lovers" as these kid's brains attempt to handle the onslaught of our sex-obsessed media, online coomers, and their IRL lives having no structure.

This is why I feel mostly pity for these groups. Most of them started fine and would have turned out fine had they been born in an era where they could have more easily kept strong bonds with family and IRL communities like sports, art, and community services.

On autism: I doubt autism=lgbt, but that autistics already struggle to process extremes and traumatizing them impacts their sense of self more than others, which is why we see such high correlation there.

 

[Real Gay Autist]

I'm not into incest, but, it probably stems from some familial problem as a kid. Not a psycho whatever, however, the people I know who were into it were either raised in a single parent home, had huge age gaps between siblings, or an imbalance in parental upbringing.

That's also what I've noticed. I'm pretty sure that all incest-fantasists I met grew up either as only children. A couple of them told me (because I get spergy and overanalytical and ask a lot of questions) that they used imagine having an older brother to show them the ropes sexually, wonder what it was like for two brothers to share a room etc. Do we just have similar observations or did you read about this somewhere? I've been trying to find reading on this topic, particularly given the large amount of (gay) incest porn. I understand sexual fantasy != sexual behavior but tbh it's always made me uncomfortable. Incest is such a violation of boundaries and if someone doesn't care enough about that to examine and work through those urges I think it's a red flag.

On autism: I doubt autism=lgbt, but that autistics already struggle to process extremes and traumatizing them impacts their sense of self more than others, which is why we see such high correlation there.

Traumatized autistic fag and can confirm lmao. Where did you find out that autists' sense of self is impacted more by trauma? That's interesting and, I agree, could explain some of the latest online autism/degeneracy overlap. I agree with you that the fact that these young people are not well socialized in IRL community/family/etc is key. Stuff like being a pansexual otherkin furry is a way of expression which is more akin to a social contagion than a sexuality in my opinion: if there was anyone who thought like that pre-Internet they would have to be incredibly (un)lucky to find others to create an echo chamber with.

 

[Absurdist Laughter]

That's also what I've noticed. I'm pretty sure that all incest-fantasists I met grew up either as only children. A couple of them told me (because I get spergy and overanalytical and ask a lot of questions) that they used imagine having an older brother to show them the ropes sexually, wonder what it was like for two brothers to share a room etc. Do we just have similar observations or did you read about this somewhere? I've been trying to find reading on this topic, particularly given the large amount of (gay) incest porn. I understand sexual fantasy != sexual behavior but tbh it's always made me uncomfortable. Incest is such a violation of boundaries and if someone doesn't care enough about that to examine and work through those urges I think it's a red flag.

Nope, this pretty much nails my anecdotal information as well. I don't think there is any literature, any that I'd consider as legitimate, on the topic of incest as it relates to upbringing.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

As a gay man, I totally agree with you! Ever since I've been out (1982) Every single fucking faggot would cry: "Don't tell me what I can or can't do in my bedroom" ...and then parade around buck naked at every pride event...

I don't care what anyone does in the PRIVACY of their own houses (with the curtains down) But parading naked in public for the past 40 years is a huge contradiction they refuse to acknowledge.

from personal observation:
genderspecials, trans, and other lgbtq+ letters who insist on multiple labels or wild identities have ALWAYS suffered some form of outlandish abuse. 90% seems to be the acts of being groomed and/or losing virginity to someone over 18 while under 18 (pedos, exposed to extreme fetishes, porn addiction) and usually having hyper restrictive home lives (homeschooling, christian cults, helicopter parents, parents who suffer from addiction) with a dash of getting beaten.

meanwhile, those who are just plain gay/lesbian or bisexual go through the normal amount of Life Sucking that straight and well adjusted adults do.

proposed correlation here is that the more extreme and vile sexual and repressive trauma you suffer during puberty, the more likely you are wind up using the extreme sides of lgbtq+ as escapism from it.

personally, ive seen the shift in online and IRL grooming and pedos go from generic creepy dudes (late 90, early 2000s) to being more populated by trooned out men (mid 2000s to current). I believe the wider access to extreme porn, consoomer culture, and encouragement by our modern society to stray from habits/religon and towards hedonism has created this shift.


further sperging:
the internet and lack of real psychology and therapy have created a whirlpool same-think vortex into which young people get sucked and can't get out. most of the bad influences in the last 10-20 years across all forms of social media, forums, and real life comes from those who were 25-40 at the time (aka grooming). Tumblr is the greatest and most well known example of this. All it takes is one adult to show 3 traumatized kids extreme porn or off-the-wall world views and suddenly you have an infection of "otherkin" or "yaoi lovers" as these kid's brains attempt to handle the onslaught of our sex-obsessed media, online coomers, and their IRL lives having no structure.

This is why I feel mostly pity for these groups. Most of them started fine and would have turned out fine had they been born in an era where they could have more easily kept strong bonds with family and IRL communities like sports, art, and community services.

On autism: I doubt autism=lgbt, but that autistics already struggle to process extremes and traumatizing them impacts their sense of self more than others, which is why we see such high correlation there.

Most of the people I grew up with who went the trans route were always...uhh, "different". One person who comes to mind we literally always knew was at the very least gay, from the time I met him at like age 3. Far as I know he had a normal home life, though he got called a faggot so many times growing up I'm sure it probably left a mark. Never saw him get bullied other then that but where I grew up I wouldn't be surprised. If you're a little boy and you hang out exclusively with girls and have a full on queer eye for the straight guy lisp by the time you're 5 I don't know how much you can attach it to upbringing by itself. Him becoming "her" I think was just the logical next step in his lifelong journey of gradually intensifying faggotry.

That said I think the internet has really destroyed a lot of people's grounding in reality, and coupled with the overall decay in community life in the US that's been accelerating since Reagan a lot of people are being left isolated and rootless. I think sexuality for most human beings is a pretty fluid entity, the "this or that" thing is kind of a myth. Our closest relatives in the animal world fuck literally anything that moves and I don't think we're any different on the whole, but we are more reflective and we have all this other cultural and interpersonal bullshit in our heads that regulates our behavior. The concept of "sexual identity" doesn't exist to a bonobo, it does to us. We're too smart for our own good.

Because people are increasingly left to their own devices in the neoliberal era however "identity" is sort of collapsing. People are desperate for anything that puts their experiences into perspective and allows them to be a part of a community. Human beings are a social species living in a pathologically anti-social environment. I don't think what explains the general rise in transgenderism is "trauma", most trans/queer people I've met are actually middle class white kids from good homes who have never experienced an actual day of hardship in their lives. We just have no grounding in any sort of meaningful cultural or personal experience, there's no connection to other people that helps us shape ourselves.

We spend most of our time alone, in our rooms, staring at screens, and being bombarded with incoherent and contradictory information about "how things are". That's our environment. And it's leaving us desperate for something to make us feel like we belong. Gender is easy, because it doesn't mean anything and it comes with a ready made community of people who will kiss your ass even if you don't deserve it.

 

[Kornula]

Most of the people I grew up with who went the trans route were always...uhh, "different". One person who comes to mind we literally always knew was at the very least gay, from the time I met him at like age 3. Far as I know he had a normal home life, though he got called a faggot so many times growing up I'm sure it probably left a mark. Never saw him get bullied other then that but where I grew up I wouldn't be surprised. If you're a little boy and you hang out exclusively with girls and have a full on queer eye for the straight guy lisp by the time you're 5 I don't know how much you can attach it to upbringing by itself. Him becoming "her" I think was just the logical next step in his lifelong journey of gradually intensifying faggotry.

That said I think the internet has really destroyed a lot of people's grounding in reality, and coupled with the overall decay in community life in the US that's been accelerating since Reagan a lot of people are being left isolated and rootless. I think sexuality for most human beings is a pretty fluid entity, the "this or that" thing is kind of a myth. Our closest relatives in the animal world fuck literally anything that moves and I don't think we're any different on the whole, but we are more reflective and we have all this other cultural and interpersonal bullshit in our heads that regulates our behavior. The concept of "sexual identity" doesn't exist to a bonobo, it does to us. We're too smart for our own good.

People people are increasingly left to their own devices in the neoliberal era however "identity" is sort of collapsing. People are desperate for anything that puts their experiences into perspective and allows them to be a part of a community. Human beings are a social species living in a pathologically anti-social environment. I don't think what explains the general rise in transgenderism is "trauma", most trans/queer people I've met are actually middle class white kids from good homes who have never experienced an actual day of hardship in their lives. We just have no grounding in any sort of meaningful cultural or personal experience, there's no connection to other people that helps us shape ourselves.

We spend most of our time alone, in our rooms, staring at screens, and being bombarded with incoherent and contradictory information about "how things are". That's our environment. And it's leaving us desperate for something to make us feel like we belong. Gender is easy, because it doesn't mean anything and it comes with a ready made community of people who will kiss your ass even if you don't deserve it.

Damn, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

i feel like i'm the blacksheep of the trans movement because i couldn't give a shit if anyone but me and the people close to me consider me valid, what do i care if someone on the internet thinks i'm mutilated or some shit. i made my choice, im happy in my choice, happier with myself than i have been since puberty, and that's what should matter in the end, not the opinion of the rest of the world. i feel like if more trans people just stopped giving a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks and just stick to their own friend group who already cares then most transfolk will be a lot happier too.

I honestly don't understand the modern gay rights movement's obsession with being "accepted". Back in the 60's after Stonewall a huge chunk of that movement believed assimilation into straight society was basically just a way to destroy the community they built and impose conservative norms on gay people. They didn't want acceptance, they wanted mainstream society to leave them the fuck alone. I feel like in general I'm just a lot more sympathetic to that tendency now. Why the fuck would you want to be like the rest of America? Americans are fucking horrible. Our culture is a cesspool, what the fuck is good about assimilating into that?

 

[Noir drag freak]

@ feedtheoctopus

I honestly don't understand the modern gay rights movement's obsession with being "accepted". Back in the 60's after Stonewall a huge chunk of that movement believed assimilation into straight society was basically just a way to destroy the community they built and impose conservative norms on gay people. They didn't want acceptance, they wanted mainstream society to leave them the fuck alone. I feel like in general I'm just a lot more sympathetic to that tendency now. Why the fuck would you want to be like the rest of America? Americans are fucking horrible. Our culture is a cesspool, what the fuck is good about assimilating into that?

The gay rights movement is complicated just like the civil rights movement. For one thing, there were various ideas about what homosexuality is and what homosexuality should be like. You also have to take into account racial, ethnic, and class difference when doing this discussion. Secondly, the early gay rights was about jobs with sexual reform being a close second. Because of the red scare, homosexuals weren't allowed high status jobs due to the fear that the Communist would blackmail homosexuals. So there was a middle class component to the gay rights that sought to blend into middle class society. That meant that early gay rights reformers sought legitimacy through gender conformity and following middle class etiquette. This is why I laugh when people talk about femme gays and transsexuals as the backbone of the gay rights liberation. However, I want to point out that there were a second(third generation?) of gay rights actvist that did embrace gender non conformity and rejected respectability. They became more prominent in the gay right movement after the Stonewall riots. However, I do think that there where some overlap between the groups.

The desire to assimilate was aided by the AIDS Crisis. Status, money, and power were part of the equation as well. If you want those three things you have to get acceptance.

The Deviant's War: The Homosexual vs. the United States of America: Cervini, Eric: 9780374139797: Amazon.com: Books

The Deviant's War: The Homosexual vs. the United States of America [Cervini, Eric] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Deviant's War: The Homosexual vs. the United States of America

www.amazon.com

What should gays do if straights have the trad/lind movement and leftist have the queer movement? Where is the movement for gays and lesbians?

 

[potato in mah painus]

I have two major thoughts on all of it, and I feel these are glaring issues that thanks to the current political climate will never be addressed:
LGBT needed to strive for acceptance like what the gay community pushed hard for. What you identify as and have sex with should be acceptable social norms, and shouldn't raise a eyebrow period. That is where the community's problem is, its not that its treated with disgust or equality but its put on a pedestal. When you give a group of people rights or recognition above everyone else you create resentment, which circles right back around to the very hatred the community tried so hard to remove.

The other major problem is the %41. This a clear sign that our current treatment and handling of transgenderism is a failure, especially since 2/5 of all people that go through conversion eventually commit suicide. I think part of this comes back down to the first point, the popularity of transgenderism is part of the reason so many are transitioning. I bet a lot of those people are not truly suffering from dysphoria, but are looking for the placement on a pedestal in their otherwise 'meaningless' life.

With that said, the rat kings all deserve to be strangled to death for contributing to the problem in the way they have. How many people have those fucks groomed into transgenderism that down the line killed themselves?

 

[polonium]

@potato in mah painus

The other major problem is the %41. This a clear sign that our current treatment and handling of transgenderism is a failure, especially since 2/5 of all people that go through conversion eventually commit suicide

No shit, Sherlock. Mutilating people who have an untreated mental disorder and then doing a shocked Pikachu face when they off themselves.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

It is pretty hard to take gay porn stars seriously because most of them are vapid fame whores and it is very telling. The G4P guys are even worse although I sympathize slightly with the ones who do it because they need money. (That one blonde kid from Florida that got outed in high school who only did the porn to help his family out financially comes to mind)

But then you have the idiots charging exorbitant prices for 30 second clips of flaccid cock. Not worth it. Also the 'generous' types. Nobody in hell is gonna pay you jack shit lmao go to a fucking whorehouse.

 

[Frank D'arbo]

Part of the reason I say I'm not apart of the LGBT community despite being bi (not one of those trendy fags either, ive been into dudes my whole life) is because after gay marriage was made legal, there was no point for me to support it.

I can still be bisexual and not support the community. Besides there's a weird ass civil war with the alphabet people anyway (lesbos and gays hating on bis, lgb hating on the ts, etc.)

 

[Ted_Breakfast]

Grievance culture is Marxist poison. Fuck anyone telling me I'm owed something despite my relatively comfortable existance.

 

[SouthernBitchBob]

I'm male. I find traditionally masculine personality traits attractive. Also secondary sex characteristics created by androgens. And penis. I couldn't be paid to care less about "gay community" or "creating/learning what being gay in a society" means. I would like to trick a lovable smartass who takes care of himself into a house ~5 miles outside town so we can argue about who loads the dishwasher "wrong" or whether next vacation is going to be some beach resort or a snowed-in cabin. Whether the rest of the ass pirates mire themselves in existential musing or hump themselves unto their last breaths makes no difference to me.

 

[Puerto Pollo]

I'm male. I find traditionally masculine personality traits attractive. Also secondary sex characteristics created by androgens. And penis. I couldn't be paid to care less about "gay community" or "creating/learning what being gay in a society" means. I would like to trick a lovable smartass who takes care of himself into a house ~5 miles outside town so we can argue about who loads the dishwasher "wrong" or whether next vacation is going to be some beach resort or a snowed-in cabin. Whether the rest of the ass pirates mire themselves in existential musing or hump themselves unto their last breaths makes no difference to me.

It's funny, the most rebellious and wild thing I can think of doing these days is getting a conservative husband who hates woke faggots and would deport all feminists to Afghanistan. If I were a woman, I'd be concerned about ending up as those "want children someday" 40yo tinder skanks, but luckily men still retain most of their value past the reproductive age. Being a man is great, regardless of how much dirt has been thrown at us in these woke years.

 

[Noir drag freak]

I'm watching Pray Away on Netflix. I know that's it's bias toward the LGBT side, but I find that it's telling that most of the people interviewed seem like people that wanted to belong to something. It wasn't about their relationship to God. I got the sense that most of them wanted a sense of community or a meaningful life.


I am going to watch this one next. I don't really like Preston Sprinkles. But he does seem to interview a lot of interesting people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvrmyNmZWU