Sexuality Sperging -

[Devyn]

Off topic but this is kind of a bug bear of mine:

The author at this webpage fails to address other cultures like the Greeks and Romans (probably the biggest examples) who had things like legalized man on boy rape in the form of pederasty at their height. The Roman army encouraged homosexual relationships between soldiers because they thought that it improved their fighting ability, didn't they? There was even a Roman tradition of men taking male lovers before they moved on to marriage and having children. The key point to all of this being that its incredibly degenerate to have normalized homosexual relationships and to encourage pederasty but incredibly powerful and strong cultures had all of those social mores and other powerful and strong cultures had crap like polygamy etc. Lots of strong and powerful cultures practice all sorts of horrible moral degeneracy so I really don't see this connection between Judeo Christian Values and healthy societies.

One thing that has remained constant in any great civilization (in order for it to survive) is that female sexuality was strictly controlled, so I think referring to the ancient Greeks and Romans as "sexually liberated" may be a bit of a stretch. Also, while polygamous societies can be "strong", they are by their very nature unstable, prone to violence, and miserable to live in for the most part:

Spoiler: One Man, Many Wives, Big Problems

https://web.archive.org/web/2020042...om/jrauch_articles/the-problem-with-polygamy/

(Sorry, I'll stop clogging up the thread with irrelevant tangents now)

 

[Ctrl+Alt+Rt]

One thing that has remained constant in any great civilization (in order for it to survive) is that female sexuality was strictly controlled, so I think referring to the ancient Greeks and Romans as "sexually liberated" may be a bit of a stretch. Also, while polygamous societies can be "strong", they are by their very nature unstable, prone to violence, and miserable to live in for the most part:

Spoiler: One Man, Many Wives, Big Problems

https://web.archive.org/web/2020042...om/jrauch_articles/the-problem-with-polygamy/

You realize that Greek and Roman civilizations had entire cities full of whores, temple prostitution, and Roman society categorized women with terminology based on the sexual role they fulfilled for men: wife (childbearer), mistress, or prostitute. Women even routinely got their tits out in court to gain mercy from the jury.

Generally, societies that try to control female sexuality also have strict control on female rights, which leads to female poverty and thus prostitution. Highest prostitution levels are associated with highest poverty levels, and that can be observed in British history and across countries today.

You also can't really explain why male sexual freedom is fine while female sexual freedom should lead to the decimation of the family and mass murder. One begets the other, because a man can't express his prenuptual freedom without women similarly doing so, and surely you'd agree that men systematically abusing boys damages a society's future.

 

[haurchefant]

One thing that has remained constant in any great civilization (in order for it to survive) is that female sexuality was strictly controlled, so I think referring to the ancient Greeks and Romans as "sexually liberated" may be a bit of a stretch. Also, while polygamous societies can be "strong", they are by their very nature unstable, prone to violence, and miserable to live in for the most part:

Spoiler: One Man, Many Wives, Big Problems

https://web.archive.org/web/2020042...om/jrauch_articles/the-problem-with-polygamy/

(Sorry, I'll stop clogging up the thread with irrelevant tangents now)

I never described them as "sexually liberated," I do think that there are some behaviors that are explicitly degenerate across cultures. I mean, one big sign of Western decline for example is the decades of young boys being raped by Catholic priests and sports coaches, a practice that is happening today. I think that's very comparable to how pederasty, aka the rape of young teenage boys by much older men, being practiced in Greece. I suppose a liberal might call that "sexually liberated" but men raping boys is still disgusting and degenerate. And yet, this behavior permeated Greek societies all over, including Athens and Sparta. Those were still strong city-states that lasted for a hell of a long time. Sparta eventually collapsed but the boy-raping Athenians were still there, still strong and raping young boys as a societal norm.

Like I agree with much of your post but like this guy said:

You realize that Greek and Roman civilizations had entire cities full of whores, temple prostitution, and Roman society categorized women with terminology based on the sexual role they fulfilled for men: wife (childbearer), mistress, or prostitute. Women even routinely got their tits out in court to gain mercy from the jury.

Generally, societies that try to control female sexuality also have strict control on female rights, which leads to female poverty and thus prostitution. Highest prostitution levels are associated with highest poverty levels, and that can be observed in British history and across countries today.

You also can't really explain why male sexual freedom is fine while female sexual freedom should lead to the decimation of the family and mass murder. One begets the other, because a man can't express his prenuptual freedom without women similarly doing so, and surely you'd agree that men systematically abusing boys damages a society's future.

Male sexual freedom includes things like being a pederast that rapes young boys or it includes being like Ryan Haywood: cheating on your certified cute and fit wife by taking advantage of mentally ill retarded women.

The larger point that I want to make is that while I understand and even endorse the Christian viewpoint, we know historically that sexual degeneracy does not automatically lead to a decline in civilization because an entire civilization of man-on-boy rapists lead the entire Western world in philosophy, mathematics, and warfare, for thousands of years.

Anyway I'll stop derailing the thread, sorry everyone. FWIW @Devyn I wouldn't mind discussing this with you in a DM or something. Again, I only bring this up because its a personal bugbear of mine for Westerners to completely ignore and look away from how historically sexual degeneracy runs rampant in powerful, virile, and long lasting civilizations, and then blame the West's decline on it.

 

[Captain Manning]

The Roman army encouraged homosexual relationships between soldiers because they thought that it improved their fighting ability, didn't they?

No. That was the Spartans. A boy Spartan in training would be paired up with an older Spartan, who was expected to commit pederasty.

The Roman Army did the exact opposite. It was strictly against military regulations for Roman soldiers to have sex with each other or any freeborn man. It was believed it would make them less effective in combat. The penalty for disobeying this regulation was death.

How the fuck did we get on this topic?

 

[haurchefant]

No. That was the Spartans. A boy Spartan in training would be paired up with an older Spartan, who was expected to commit pederasty.

The Roman Army did the exact opposite. It was strictly against military regulations for Roman soldiers to have sex with each other or any freeborn man. It was believed it would make them less effective in combat. The penalty for disobeying this regulation was death.

How the fuck did we get on this topic?

I knew I had read it somewhere, I just wasn't sure who to assign it to, so thanks. We got on the topic because I saw a post I wanted to respond to, isn't that how it typically works?

 

[Physics Ninja]

No. That was the Spartans. A boy Spartan in training would be paired up with an older Spartan, who was expected to commit pederasty.

The Roman Army did the exact opposite. It was strictly against military regulations for Roman soldiers to have sex with each other or any freeborn man. It was believed it would make them less effective in combat. The penalty for disobeying this regulation was death.

How the fuck did we get on this topic?

Faggots always like to bring up "muh romans" when trying to justify getting assfucked

 

[Captain Manning]

I knew I had read it somewhere, I just wasn't sure who to assign it to, so thanks. We got on the topic because I saw a post I wanted to respond to, isn't that how it typically works?

I guess. I'm just not sure it's the appropriate topic.

Bear in mind that the Spartans, despite being romanticized, were total assholes. Before you get to the pederasty, you first have to deal with a brutal eugenics program that would make Adolf Hitler proud (and it did, as he wrote about it glowingly). Babies that were judged unfit for future military service were literally thrown off a cliff. Military service was compulsory, training would be considered inhumane by today's standards, and they basically didn't have any culture outside of war (hence the word spartan, meaning minimalistic).

I would not really glorify them. While they had a good run, they also eventually got their asses beaten.

If you guys do a private discussion topic, I'll send you a cool documentary on the Spartans. Otherwise, it's perhaps best not to say anything further.

Faggots always like to bring up "muh romans" when trying to justify getting assfucked

That's actually not wrong.

I mean, homosexuality was a thing, but probably not like most people think. Bottoms were basically the lowest of the low in Roman society. Slaves got fucked in the ass by freemen. Freemen did not get fucked in the ass. That was considered dishonorable.

Basically it's not too dissimilar to how we view things here on KF. Getting fucked in the ass is a sign of disgrace and defeat. Doing the ass fucking is a sign of winning.

Of course, we mainly mean it metaphorically, but you get the idea...

 

[MagicalHopStep]

Petition to get the Romans their own thread?

 

[Captain Manning]

Petition to get the Romans their own thread?

Seconded.

Also, if this topic gets too boring while waiting for the next victim or "victim," you should all know Movie Bob got some bad news today from the Escapist. Feel free to swing by his topic, however briefly, and laugh at his misery. That's what I did when this saga started slowing down today.