Disaster 'She looked possessed': Virginia Family Attacked by Naked Woman Claiming to be the Devil - This devil does not wear Prada

God has set a certain time for the tribulation because he wants to give sinners a last chance to repent before the day of judgement. God in order to have meaningful relationship with the angels gave them free will, but unfortunately, Satan decided to rebel. 1/3 of the angels joined him. Then he convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit and she convinced Adam and so sin entered the world. Sinners have the chance throughout their life to repent, but many choose not to and therefore go to hell.
Where in the hell does it say that in the bible?

Also free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive. If you know what will happen, then there can't be free will. If there is free will, you can't know what's going to happen.

I should stop with this derail probably but I really enjoy this topic.
 

Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
Where in the hell does it say that in the bible?

Also free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive. If you know what will happen, then there can't be free will. If there is free will, you can't know what's going to happen.

I should stop with this derail probably but I really enjoy this topic.
Revelation 12:4 reveals that 1/3 of the angels were thrown out of heaven. There are many New Testament verses that confirm that the incident in the Garden of Eden was when sin entered the world. It can be reconciled with the science of evolution because it is said that the first humans with modern human behavior originated 50 million years ago. Those humans were Adam and Eve.

C.S. Lewis explained in Mere Christianity how omniscience and free will are not exclusive.

“Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. But if He knows I am going to do so-and-so, how can I be free to do otherwise? Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being the He can see ahead and we cannot…But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call ‘tomorrow’ is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call ‘today’. All the days are ‘Now’ for Him”
 
Revelation 12:4 reveals that 1/3 of the angels were thrown out of heaven. There are many New Testament verses that confirm that the incident in the Garden of Eden was when sin entered the world. It can be reconciled with the science of evolution because it is said that the first humans with modern human behavior originated 50 million years ago. Those humans were Adam and Eve.

C.S. Lewis explained in Mere Christianity how omniscience and free will are not exclusive.

“Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. But if He knows I am going to do so-and-so, how can I be free to do otherwise? Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being the He can see ahead and we cannot…But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call ‘tomorrow’ is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call ‘today’. All the days are ‘Now’ for Him”
Ok, all the days are now for him. So he knows the future. So there's no free will.

Seriously that isn't even a disagreement, just restating the premise in a slightly different way in hopes that you'll give up in frustration.
 

Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
Ok, all the days are now for him. So he knows the future. So there's no free will.

Seriously that isn't even a disagreement, just restating the premise in a slightly different way in hopes that you'll give up in frustration.
But as he is beyond time, he does not foresee what we are going to do, he just sees us doing them. If you travel into the future and observe what someone chooses to eat for lunch, it does not have an affect on his free will to choose what to eat.
 
But as he is beyond time, he does not foresee what we are going to do, he just sees us doing them. If you travel into the future and observe what someone chooses to eat for lunch, it does not have an affect on his free will to choose what to eat.
If you can know it before they 'freely' make the choice then it wasn't a choice, it was a guaranteed outcome.

Free will is a silly illusion required for our sanity. Religions depending on it just weaken their own argument, but they kind of have to, otherwise it seems pretty unfair to go to hell for sins you were guaranteed to commit.
 

Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
If you can know it before they 'freely' make the choice then it wasn't a choice, it was a guaranteed outcome.

Free will is a silly illusion required for our sanity. Religions depending on it just weaken their own argument, but they kind of have to, otherwise it seems pretty unfair to go to hell for sins you were guaranteed to commit.
Paradoxically, it is still not a guaranteed outcome. If we make a different decision, it alters the timeline making God observe us making that different decision in the future. So whenever we make a decision, we alter the past because we commit different sins that Jesus remembered us committing when he died on the cross.
 
Paradoxically, it is still not a guaranteed outcome. If we make a different decision, it alters the timeline making God observe us making that different decision in the future. So whenever we make a decision, we alter the past because we commit different sins that Jesus remembered us committing when he died on the cross.
Oh come on, you're just being silly now. You've given us more power over spacetime than god now.

It is a paradox, because the bible is not a well written logical argument. It's a loose collection of stories and shit from a billion sources, and the priests gotta say something when people notice it doesn't exactly all mesh together.

Why would the all knowing god bother making a bet with satan? Rather stupid of satan to participate in a bet with someone who has control over every aspect of the fucking thing, wasn't it? Then again he managed to lose a fiddle contest he was the judge of, so maybe the devil is kinda dumb...
 

Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
Oh come on, you're just being silly now. You've given us more power over spacetime than god now.

It is a paradox, because the bible is not a well written logical argument. It's a loose collection of stories and shit from a billion sources, and the priests gotta say something when people notice it doesn't exactly all mesh together.

Why would the all knowing god bother making a bet with satan? Rather stupid of satan to participate in a bet with someone who has control over every aspect of the fucking thing, wasn't it? Then again he managed to lose a fiddle contest he was the judge of, so maybe the devil is kinda dumb...
Because while God knew Job’s decision in this timeline, he and Satan knew that Job was capable of altering the timeline by making a different decision. While this gives us great power over spacetime, God is still the ultimate power because he gave us that power by giving us free will. God is capable of altering the past himself but he doesn’t do that because he doesn’t want to alter his own perfect actions.
 
Because while God knew Job’s decision in this timeline, he and Satan knew that Job was capable of altering the timeline by making a different decision. While this gives us great power over spacetime, God is still the ultimate power because he gave us that power by giving us free will. God is capable of altering the past himself but he doesn’t do that because he doesn’t want to alter his own perfect actions.
This actually works for you? You don't find this... utterly ridiculous?

Eh, not much point in arguing the matter further I guess.
 
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Count groudon

Saltier than Njord's left testicle
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Because while God knew Job’s decision in this timeline, he and Satan knew that Job was capable of altering the timeline by making a different decision. While this gives us great power over spacetime, God is still the ultimate power because he gave us that power by giving us free will. God is capable of altering the past himself but he doesn’t do that because he doesn’t want to alter his own perfect actions.
You are getting very philosophical in this thread about a junky dodging bullets and getting brained upside the head with a wrench my dude.

Let’s all just chill and start speculating about the important factors in this equation, like whether or not she shat herself once she was KO’d for instance.
 

Burned Man

Trans-Legion burnedgender Mormankin
kiwifarms.net
You are getting very philosophical in this thread about a junky dodging bullets and getting brained upside the head with a wrench my dude.

Let’s all just chill and start speculating about the important factors in this equation, like whether or not she shat herself once she was KO’d for instance.
Or whether or not the husband shat himself after missing for the 30th time.

If I learned anything from Jules from Pulp Fiction its that this wasn't the work of Satan but divine intervention from God himself and that this woman is serving him for a higher purpose.

I'd love to see some sort of reenactment or dramatization of this event.
 

Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
This actually works for you? You don't find this... utterly ridiculous?

Eh, not much point in arguing the matter further I guess.
I did further deep thinking and I think I came to a better understanding.

God is omniscient when he resides in the timeless realm, where he receives information from all places in time. God resides there, but as God is omnipresent, he also resides in the spacetime continuum, so the part of God in the spacetime continuum is not omniscient since it is only a part of God and is in the present. The idea that there are parts of God that are not omniscient is not new because Mark 13:32 says that the Son doesn’t know the day of judgement but only the Father knows.
You are getting very philosophical in this thread about a junky dodging bullets and getting brained upside the head with a wrench my dude.

Let’s all just chill and start speculating about the important factors in this equation, like whether or not she shat herself once she was KO’d for instance.
I see your point, but this incident is related to theology since the woman was possessed by Satan who has a lot of power but will ultimately be defeated.
 
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The Great Chandler

"Pickleless girls don't marry virgin boys"
kiwifarms.net
I did further deep thinking and I think I came to a better understanding.

God is omniscient when he resides in the timeless realm, where he receives information from all places in time. God resides there, but as God is omnipresent, he also resides in the spacetime continuum, so the part of God in the spacetime continuum is not omniscient since it is only a part of God and is in the present. The idea that there are parts of God that are not omniscient is not new because Mark 13:32 says that the Son doesn’t know the day of judgement but only the Father knows.

I see your point, but this incident is related to theology since the woman was possessed by Satan who has a lot of power but will ultimately be defeated.
Or she's just a crackhead.
 
I did further deep thinking and I think I came to a better understanding.

God is omniscient when he resides in the timeless realm, where he receives information from all places in time. God resides there, but as God is omnipresent, he also resides in the spacetime continuum, so the part of God in the spacetime continuum is not omniscient since it is only a part of God and is in the present. The idea that there are parts of God that are not omniscient is not new because Mark 13:32 says that the Son doesn’t know the day of judgement but only the Father knows.

I see your point, but this incident is related to theology since the woman was possessed by Satan who has a lot of power but will ultimately be defeated.
What part of the bible says [insert headcanon here]? What part of the bible includes talk of the spacetime continuum?

I mean, your personal weird version of Catholicism does seem way more fun than the standard version, but you are inventing some explanations here...
 
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Jacob Harrison

Ultimate Anglo American
kiwifarms.net
What part of the bible says [insert headcanon here]? What part of the bible includes talk of the spacetime continuum?

I mean, your personal weird version of Catholicism does seem way more fun than the standard version, but you are inventing some explanations here...
It has been Christian doctrine for millennia that God is timeless so my theory is just a clarification of that doctrine. It is a necessity in order to explain how there is both omniscience and free will. Throughout the history of Christianity, theologians have come up with theories based on existing doctrine.
 
It has been Christian doctrine for millennia that God is timeless so my theory is just a clarification of that doctrine. It is a necessity in order to explain how there is both omniscience and free will. Throughout the history of Christianity, theologians have come up with theories based on existing doctrine.
They also call that apologetics, or "Rationalizing after the fact".

It's common with philosophy or religion, which is fine when they're not being treated as if they're rational arguments. It doesn't prove anything wrong but you should probably be suspicious that you keep having to invent more and more complicated stuff to make it mesh.

Also, either way, you're making god at least partially not omniscient, which contradicts the claim that god is omniscient. If he's not omniscient then there's no theological problem with free will, but the bible says he is. If you're defining 'free will' to include the possibility of knowing exactly what will happen ahead of time, I would argue that's a poor definition of 'free will'.
 
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