She-Ra and the Princess of Power - sjw bad animation reboot of shera

[FreedomMussel]

Capeshit and Transformers are eternal

The benefit of Transformers being constantly rebooted is that writers can keep experimenting until they find good patterns.

My first introduction to Transformers was Beast Wars, and then I lost interest after Robots in Disguise 2001, but in the last few months I’ve been binge-watching the subsequent transformers cartoons. I really liked Cyberverse’s attempt to introduce crossovers (e.g. Bumblebee and Cheetor friendship, Jetfire and Skybyte’s rivalry), and I wish they’d had more opportunities. (E.g. Jetstorm and Jetfire as Vehicon and Autobot twins, making Aerialbot Silverbolt and Maximal Silverbolt the same character, Waspinator and Blackarachnia showing up, etc.)

 

[elzaw]

The benefit of Transformers being constantly rebooted is that writers can keep experimenting until they find good patterns.

My first introduction to Transformers was Beast Wars, and then I lost interest after Robots in Disguise 2001, but in the last few months I’ve been binge-watching the subsequent transformers cartoons. I really liked Cyberverse’s attempt to introduce crossovers (e.g. Bumblebee and Cheetor friendship, Jetfire and Skybyte’s rivalry), and I wish they’d had more opportunities. (E.g. Jetstorm and Jetfire as Vehicon and Autobot twins, making Aerialbot Silverbolt and Maximal Silverbolt the same character, Waspinator and Blackarachnia showing up, etc.)

Dinobot's redemption arc made a such a strong impression on me as a kid. It was so brutal, none of those woke modern cartoons, not even atla, ever came close.

 

[The Silver Shroud]

How people can still insist that cutting your boobs off because you very obviously feel extremely dissatisfied with yourself and are trying to fill some kind of hole in yourself is healthy is so utterly beyond me. Humans generally can‘t handle losing their healthy body parts without having some lasting trauma, especially if it was self-inflicted.

You need God, lady. If you really think that you’re predestined for hell and you can’t change, someone taught you wrong.

Your wife obviously isn’t giving you the love you need in your life, especially if she encourages you to mutilate yourself in order to be more attractive to her. That’s abuse.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Capeshit and Transformers are eternal

I'm not sure if capeshit really is eternal outside of a tiny handful of "evergreen" IP's. The only capeshit that normies cared for in the pre-MCU era were Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man. Maybe Wonder Woman and the X-Men too (and really just Wolverine)

I really do think we're going to see this capeshit bubble burst at some point in the 2020's or early 2030's and superheroes will end up going the way of the Western outside of maybe the three or four evergreen franchises.

Transformers? Eh, I never really cared for that franchise but it does keep coming back for whatever reason.

 

[Tardar the Barbarian]

keep coming back for whatever reason.

Ever heard of merch? Toys? Lunchboxes? Chainsaws?

 

[Syaoran Li]

Ever heard of merch? Toys? Lunchboxes? Chainsaws?

Oh, I'm well aware of the merch.

 

[That Chris Guy]

I have no qualms with calling a spade a spade - Nu-Ra was absolute shit and I wouldn't recommend it to fans or newcomers. The villains were mostly weak, effeminate garbage, and the protagonists are hideous blobs of fat and HRT. The original was corny and inferior to He-Man, but this makes it look Batman: TAS.

Yet another show that features a strong female protagonist being thrown into the lesbo bin.

 

[starborn427614]

I have no qualms with calling a spade a spade - Nu-Ra was absolute shit and I wouldn't recommend it to fans or newcomers. The villains were mostly weak, effeminate garbage, and the protagonists are hideous blobs of fat and HRT. The original was corny and inferior to He-Man, but this makes it look Batman: TAS.

Yet another show that features a strong female protagonist being thrown into the lesbo bin.

Honestly if you want a female-led shows there's other, much better options out there. Hilda if you want to go modern, Kim Possible if you want to back a decade or so and if you want to go back really far and don't mind it being a movie instead then Mrs Frisby in The Secret of Nimh is perfect.

Edit:
Miscalculated how much time had past since KP aired. It's not one decade, it's two as of next year. I don't feel so good Mr Stark

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Miscalculated how much time had past since KP aired. It's not one decade, it's two as of next year. I don't feel so good Mr Stark

Hilariously enough, despite Kim canonically ending up with Ron at the end, the fan-favorite lesbian ship between her and Shego is more healthy than Catadora. Funny how 20 years changes the approach of enemies-to-lovers ships.

 

[elzaw]

At least Japan serves the best fanart (way better than Noelle's lazy anniversary doodle)

 

[FreedomMussel]

Yet another show that features a strong female protagonist being thrown into the lesbo bin.

What’s up with this current trend to write strong female protagonists as only ever being gay? You can have strong female characters who are straight or bi too. Or even asexual!

 

[Zync]

What’s up with this current trend to write strong female protagonists as only ever being gay? You can have strong female characters who are straight or bi too. Or even asexual!

You can, but you're going to make them look like a man by giving them short hair and no tits so it appears like it's a homosexual relationship anyway. Checkmate, straights.

 

[That Chris Guy]

You can, but you're going to make them look like a man by giving them short hair and no tits so it appears like it's a homosexual relationship anyway. Checkmate, straights.

Japan's existence proves you very wrong.

Clearly you must be new to this game.

 

[Trianon]

Hilariously enough, despite Kim canonically ending up with Ron at the end, the fan-favorite lesbian ship between her and Shego is more healthy than Catadora. Funny how 20 years changes the approach of enemies-to-lovers ships.

Shego/Kim is unhealthy for the age gap (Shego's supposed to be late 20s), but you're right that the animosity that's there is purely professional. Catra's emotional needling is what makes it so squick.

Spoiler: How enemies-to-lovers should work

The problem writers run into with enemy ships is when they think "oh, I was just being awful because I loved you" is enough of a resolution. Villains can show us our unhealthy ways of navigating relationships, but in order for us to believe the relationship can work, we have to see the villain realize their error and try to change. If Catra ends the series by still partly blaming Adora for leaving, that bit of the plot hasn't fully resolved. Catra still believes what she did was justified. It's not enough to realize you're acting out because you're gay for her; you have to also recognize that you have no claim on her, as a friend or otherwise.

This works if the characters are, like, 8 (Helga Pataki) and we see throughout the series where their meanness comes from and see how being around their love interest makes them want to be better. We know that even if the characters "get together," they're children and are still learning how to manage their feelings. But we have less understanding if they're adults and are acting like children. We subconsciously want to see them "mature" by giving up on a relationship they've held onto, and only then can they earn love as equals instead of manipulating their way into it. Both Catra and Adora just like *REALIZE* they've been hot for each other the whole time, and somehow that absolves all the other stuff, but by rushing into that relationship, the audience knows it's going to be a disaster because neither of them have taken responsibility for what they've done and have unrealistic expectations for what they can ask of each other.

And we see this is Noelle and Molly's real-life relationship. Noelle just held onto being the third wheel in a poly relationship hoping Molly would all of a sudden *notice* her and leave her boyfriend. And she spent however long being bitter at Molly because she wouldn't just come out and say what she wanted. That drama will work for a story, but unless you've realized "oh, I'm actually hurting myself by staying here and not speaking up, I should go work on that and make sure I'm confident enough to do that," then the relationship is going to be built on so much baggage that you're still going to subconsciously be vying for her attention, maybe by chopping your breasts off.

 

[Zync]

Japan's existence proves you very wrong.

Clearly you must be new to this game.

Or we're in a thread about western animation ruined with woke shit that has fuck all to do with Japan. Fuck off.

 

[Oats12345]

Shego/Kim is unhealthy for the age gap (Shego's supposed to be late 20s), but you're right that the animosity that's there is purely professional. Catra's emotional needling is what makes it so squick.

Spoiler: How enemies-to-lovers should work

The problem writers run into with enemy ships is when they think "oh, I was just being awful because I loved you" is enough of a resolution. Villains can show us our unhealthy ways of navigating relationships, but in order for us to believe the relationship can work, we have to see the villain realize their error and try to change. If Catra ends the series by still partly blaming Adora for leaving, that bit of the plot hasn't fully resolved. Catra still believes what she did was justified. It's not enough to realize you're acting out because you're gay for her; you have to also recognize that you have no claim on her, as a friend or otherwise.

This works if the characters are, like, 8 (Helga Pataki) and we see throughout the series where their meanness comes from and see how being around their love interest makes them want to be better. We know that even if the characters "get together," they're children and are still learning how to manage their feelings. But we have less understanding if they're adults and are acting like children. We subconsciously want to see them "mature" by giving up on a relationship they've held onto, and only then can they earn love as equals instead of manipulating their way into it. Both Catra and Adora just like *REALIZE* they've been hot for each other the whole time, and somehow that absolves all the other stuff, but by rushing into that relationship, the audience knows it's going to be a disaster because neither of them have taken responsibility for what they've done and have unrealistic expectations for what they can ask of each other.

And we see this is Noelle and Molly's real-life relationship. Noelle just held onto being the third wheel in a poly relationship hoping Molly would all of a sudden *notice* her and leave her boyfriend. And she spent however long being bitter at Molly because she wouldn't just come out and say what she wanted. That drama will work for a story, but unless you've realized "oh, I'm actually hurting myself by staying here and not speaking up, I should go work on that and make sure I'm confident enough to do that," then the relationship is going to be built on so much baggage that you're still going to subconsciously be vying for her attention, maybe by chopping your breasts off.

Probably helps too. That Kim and Shego had better personalities than anyone form She-Ra

 

[FreedomMussel]

Yeah, “enemies-to-lovers” needs a LOT of special care to avoid becoming abusive apologia.

That’s why every healthy relationship I remember involving this trope has the villain turn to the side of good and they weren’t really that bad to begin with.

Catwoman steals ridiculously expensive stuff from rich people because like other Gotham villains she’s insane, but sometimes she helps out Batman because she has a conscience.

Blackarachnia starts off as self-centered and willing to betray her evil leaders for power, but Silverbolt’s unconditional friendship/romance leads her to join the Maximals and save Cybertron.

By contrast, NuCatra starts out as a jealous ex-girlfriend who wants revenge/validation and never improves. Oh, and she also rebuffs Adora’s and Scorpia’s multiple offers to become good because she’s a sociopath who only cares about power. She only decides to switch sides when her ploys don’t work on Horde Prime.

If you wanted Catra’s arc to make sense, then the easiest way to fix things is to remove her prior relationship with Adora. I previously mentioned some ways to handle Adora’s arc, and this can tie in with that. Catra starts out as another commander from a different division who isn’t in any close relationship with Adora. As she fights with She-Ra, sometimes the two team up or Catra is rescued by She-Ra when a plan goes wrong. The two also banter a lot while fighting. Catra starts falling in love with She-Ra and questioning her place in the Horde, completely unaware that Adora and She-Ra are the same person. Also, Catra should have some good qualities like caring about her subordinates in order to make her sympathetic. E.g. when her comrades are stuck in the acid spores she sends a rescue team armed with flamethrowers, she talks to Clawdeen (who here is her constant animal companion) about the problem of the week and reveals her fears and insecurities, etc.

 

[Trianon]

Yeah, “enemies-to-lovers” needs a LOT of special care to avoid becoming abusive apologia.

That’s why every healthy relationship I remember involving this trope has the villain turn to the side of good and they weren’t really that bad to begin with.

Catwoman steals ridiculously expensive stuff from rich people because like other Gotham villains she’s insane, but sometimes she helps out Batman because she has a conscience.

Blackarachnia starts off as self-centered and willing to betray her evil leaders for power, but Silverbolt’s unconditional friendship/romance leads her to join the Maximals and save Cybertron.

By contrast, NuCatra starts out as a jealous ex-girlfriend who wants revenge/validation and never improves. Oh, and she also rebuffs Adora’s and Scorpia’s multiple offers to become good because she’s a sociopath who only cares about power. She only decides to switch sides when her ploys don’t work on Horde Prime.

If you wanted Catra’s arc to make sense, then the easiest way to fix things is to remove her prior relationship with Adora. I previously mentioned some ways to handle Adora’s arc, and this can tie in with that. Catra starts out as another commander from a different division who isn’t in any close relationship with Adora. As she fights with She-Ra, sometimes the two team up or Catra is rescued by She-Ra when a plan goes wrong. The two also banter a lot while fighting. Catra starts falling in love with She-Ra and questioning her place in the Horde, completely unaware that Adora and She-Ra are the same person. Also, Catra should have some good qualities like caring about her subordinates in order to make her sympathetic. E.g. when her comrades are stuck in the acid spores she sends a rescue team armed with flamethrowers, she talks to Clawdina (who here is her constant animal companion) about the problem of the week and reveals her fears and insecurities, etc.

Yeah, I think they just wanted to add some reason for Adora to be sad that she'd left the Horde, so they gave her a childhood friend. Another problem you can run into with childhood friends-turned-lovers is that there's not really a big journey for the characters to go on. They are growing up by going backward, remaining attached to people who have since hurt them because they can't imagine something different. That's one reason the characters feel younger than they are; they are in arrested adolescence, and the story reinforces that feeling by making sure they go back to childhood comforts.

 

[NoReturn]

Shego/Kim is unhealthy for the age gap (Shego's supposed to be late 20s), but you're right that the animosity that's there is purely professional. Catra's emotional needling is what makes it so squick.

Spoiler: How enemies-to-lovers should work

The problem writers run into with enemy ships is when they think "oh, I was just being awful because I loved you" is enough of a resolution. Villains can show us our unhealthy ways of navigating relationships, but in order for us to believe the relationship can work, we have to see the villain realize their error and try to change. If Catra ends the series by still partly blaming Adora for leaving, that bit of the plot hasn't fully resolved. Catra still believes what she did was justified. It's not enough to realize you're acting out because you're gay for her; you have to also recognize that you have no claim on her, as a friend or otherwise.

This works if the characters are, like, 8 (Helga Pataki) and we see throughout the series where their meanness comes from and see how being around their love interest makes them want to be better. We know that even if the characters "get together," they're children and are still learning how to manage their feelings. But we have less understanding if they're adults and are acting like children. We subconsciously want to see them "mature" by giving up on a relationship they've held onto, and only then can they earn love as equals instead of manipulating their way into it. Both Catra and Adora just like *REALIZE* they've been hot for each other the whole time, and somehow that absolves all the other stuff, but by rushing into that relationship, the audience knows it's going to be a disaster because neither of them have taken responsibility for what they've done and have unrealistic expectations for what they can ask of each other.

And we see this is Noelle and Molly's real-life relationship. Noelle just held onto being the third wheel in a poly relationship hoping Molly would all of a sudden *notice* her and leave her boyfriend. And she spent however long being bitter at Molly because she wouldn't just come out and say what she wanted. That drama will work for a story, but unless you've realized "oh, I'm actually hurting myself by staying here and not speaking up, I should go work on that and make sure I'm confident enough to do that," then the relationship is going to be built on so much baggage that you're still going to subconsciously be vying for her attention, maybe by chopping your breasts off.

Probably helps too. That Kim and Shego had better personalities than anyone form She-Ra

Shipping aside, Shego also fit the "big sister" role pretty well, too.

 

[FreedomMussel]

Yeah, I think they just wanted to add some reason for Adora to be sad that she'd left the Horde, so they gave her a childhood friend. Another problem you can run into with childhood friends-turned-lovers is that there's not really a big journey for the characters to go on. They are growing up by going backward, remaining attached to people who have since hurt them because they can't imagine something different. That's one reason the characters feel younger than they are; they are in arrested adolescence, and the story reinforces that feeling by making sure they go back to childhood comforts.

maybe it’s a (obviously unintentional) commentary on society’s obsession with nostalgia and nostalgia goggles.