Should Men Cry and be emotional? - Post to harvest autism ratings

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Men should never cry.

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 27.7%
  • No

    Votes: 73 72.3%

  • Total voters
    101

Finder

War is epic, freedom is cringe, ignorance is based
kiwifarms.net
99% of the time men crying is weird and unneeded, but there are times when it’s okay. That said men should really try to avoid it, you’re supposed to be stable and composed. If you do than don’t do it publicly.

Cry around your partner and watch how quickly she loses respect for you.
 

ReturnedHermit

kiwifarms.net
Why did "people should not allow their emotions to run their lives" and "having self discipline enables others to trust and rely on you" become "men never cry or show emotion for any reason" do you think?
The entire premise of the "late middle age, salt-and-pepper haired man who never shed a tear in his life" stereotype is based on a generation of people who grew up with an absurd quid quo pro. The tormented but functional vets of Vietnam, Korea and WW2 were rewarded with a period of impossibly high prosperity. The nonfunctioning ones are either every old homeless man you've ever seen, or killed themselves. Excluding war vets you have other tough men who "bust their ass" or "can shoulder any burden." Well, I hate to break it to you, but busting your ass doesn't pay like it used to and anyone with an internet connection has access to more burdens than anyone can handle.
I'm not sure if there is a strong silent type to schizo pipeline these days. There are definitely men who are wired to seek out burdens as if every miserable thing they encounter is a worthy challenge. This is a mistake. In order for these things to be a challenge you have to be able to impact the outcome, for one. The other component is whether or not a challenge is worthy, and you've got to have good decision-making skills. So your old dad or uncle shares the wisdom of the past and, like most people, you put it into action. At some point this goes awry putting you in a situation where you must adapt or live in shame. Here's where things differ: you go online and there are thousands upon thousands of grifters trying to sell you on what a worthy challenge is. You get some market behavior here, but to summarize things let's say you decide to challenge yourself by getting fit.
Dad says be as fit as you can be, uncle says he was the fittest guy at the gym in his day (town population was 4,000 then and the gym had only 20 members) and the internet says a lot of things. For one, it tells you how to secure advantages that used to only be known to pros, meaning dad's advice becomes a curse. You can never be as fit as you can be because fitness advice and technology move so quickly that there will always be unexplored options. Uncle's stories about being a "local legend" are so much better than your experiences despite spending twice as much time at the gym. Maybe they're exaggerating, or maybe you will never get to experience being the most fit guy a girl has ever seen due to Instagram. To top it off, you yourself have seen so many dozens of people at a level of fitness you can seemingly never achieve that you have, at most, half the confidence he did. So when you look in the mirror after a solid year of lifting and have no stories to share about girls, no moment of triumph where you look your dad in the eye and say you are doing everything you can to be as fit as possible, no rivalry at the gym with your lifelong friend and neighbor, and worst of all no smile to match what you've seen countless times on the faces of dad and uncle in the scrapbook... Sorry, I'm rambling. The point is you will wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze when comparing yourself to people who came before you and raped the world with empire and coca cola.
If you have these people in your life hear this: they will always claim to have suffered more than you because they evaluate suffering differently. To them, suffering is starvation, violence, and physical labor. Nowadays, we fast for fun or to have a sharper focus at work.
Violence is seemingly everywhere and nowhere online, while in your day to day life it is seen as a disease to be eradicated (and you are treated like the cause regardless). Now that it is strictly forbidden and linked to your male-ness, violence becomes a sort of craving. You are told you are inherently violent, that you must change to stop being that way. Practicing total nonviolence and self policing makes you less appealing to women, less confident, more anxious, etc. You feel the urge to do something, but you wonder if that urge is violence. They never really went into detail about how to process your emotions in a productive way, now that you think of it. Only that you are predisposed to violence, that violence can come in many forms (even non-physical), and that succumbing to it will ruin your life. Best not to risk succumbing to any urges at all, lest they be violent ones. So you hold it in, left to fix yourself in silence while others get to express themselves freely. Those other groups demand the government fix their problems for them and it seems to be more successful than not. You start to see changes in policy and language. Things like "if you have a problem, talk to someone" or maybe HR sent an email about "having an open door" and how "everyone needs to vent" so you take them up on the offer. Oopsie! Turns out that being emotionally immature and suspecting you want to let loose once in a while in a way that could be considered violent makes you a significant risk to other people. Maybe your life is fucked up, maybe you are just required to attend counseling and labelled defective until you can successfully internalize that you are defective. Maybe you take up mma, left to wonder whether or not it's a crutch you need just to achieve normalcy. Either way, your experience with violence is very different from theirs. For the millenial or zoomer, you can never leave it behind. If you seem to be stressed you will be treated as though you are violent, just for everyone's safety of course. You will not be helped. You will not respond to violence with violence. You will never know if you are actually violent at all because it is not something you should decide for yourself.
Demanding physical labor is harder to explain as a topic. I'd be happy to work construction or labor one day a week just to mix it up. Mental fatigue is worse than physical in my experience. Bad ergonomics result in a life of pain management opiates for many people, it just takes a lot longer to get there compared to sudden debilitating injury. Instead of dividing the suffering of the past from the present I think it is more useful in this case to find common ground. People don't mind hard work all that much (in my experience, at least), what people actually have a problem with is having unnecessary pain and risk added to their job without adequate compensation. The workers of the past often paid with their lives when something went wrong. The workers of today pay with their lives to ensure nothing goes wrong.
Prosperity isn't what it used to be, that means the rewards are always going to be lower. Challenges are often more a test of your compliance and submission to authority than they are tests of competence. Times have changed, but we are less prepared to adapt to these changes. The stress level required to simply get by has increased dramatically. Male-ness and masculinity are regarded very differently now. We are competing simultaneously in a local physical hierarchy as well as a global digital hierarchy all the time. Appreciation for strength and fortitude among the general population is now riding shotgun with rugged individualism, meaning it is associated with "the Right," meaning it falls under the category of "risky conversation," meaning it is soft-banned in many places. Your identity as a man is dictated to you, not yours to control. Why get invested in something with such an uncertain future when you can more easily be an "ally" or "activist" knowing there is far less at stake? Without a country, let alone a family to fight for, how can you ever match up to those who came before you?
Anyways, this is about 3x as long as I wanted it to be. I say cry away if you feel that way. Do it in private if you don't have anyone. Even if you have someone who cares that much about you, don't abuse such a privilege. Get in touch with your emotions and urges. Study yourself until you achieve a level of mastery that others cannot compete with. If the conversation pertains to you, ensure you have the skills required to determine if something is "right enough" or if it is truly "right for me" and if you can't - don't commit yourself to an answer right away. Conform to your peers if you conform at all, the past doesn't benefit from your participation. Focus on the result you want, not the method. The level of suffering has generally increased (in the western world at least) and most importantly: the people who came before you had so much more passive support and reward built into being strong than you do. They held it in because they could afford to keep up appearances and maintain their self image. You, on the other hand, live in a surveillance state on the decline. The illusion has faded to the point that it is no longer sustainable. Telling you that the only way for you to be a man is by bottling up emotion, avoiding all forms of passion or violence, and working yourself to death is a desperate play by a failed system hanging on by a thread. That thread is narrative control at all levels targeted at you from childhood. If several thousand random men got together and simply wept for all they have lost, will never have, and the daily misery of maintaining a system hostile to your very existence maybe it will cause enough buzz to get something started. We live in a belief-based society powered by a faith-based economy here in the US. The perception of male crying could be rewritten in a year if the spin doctors had a reason to give a shit about you.
 

The-Patriarchy

The End Justifies the Memes
kiwifarms.net
Men should cry only under three circumstances:

1- Chopping strong onions (gets me every time <sob>)
2- When kicked in the cojones
3- To get in a woman's pants
 

Hot Cup of Joe

kiwifarms.net
Why did "people should not allow their emotions to run their lives" and "having self discipline enables others to trust and rely on you" become "men never cry or show emotion for any reason" do you think?
The entire premise of the "late middle age, salt-and-pepper haired man who never shed a tear in his life" stereotype is based on a generation of people who grew up with an absurd quid quo pro. The tormented but functional vets of Vietnam, Korea and WW2 were rewarded with a period of impossibly high prosperity. The nonfunctioning ones are either every old homeless man you've ever seen, or killed themselves. Excluding war vets you have other tough men who "bust their ass" or "can shoulder any burden." Well, I hate to break it to you, but busting your ass doesn't pay like it used to and anyone with an internet connection has access to more burdens than anyone can handle.
I'm not sure if there is a strong silent type to schizo pipeline these days. There are definitely men who are wired to seek out burdens as if every miserable thing they encounter is a worthy challenge. This is a mistake. In order for these things to be a challenge you have to be able to impact the outcome, for one. The other component is whether or not a challenge is worthy, and you've got to have good decision-making skills. So your old dad or uncle shares the wisdom of the past and, like most people, you put it into action. At some point this goes awry putting you in a situation where you must adapt or live in shame. Here's where things differ: you go online and there are thousands upon thousands of grifters trying to sell you on what a worthy challenge is. You get some market behavior here, but to summarize things let's say you decide to challenge yourself by getting fit.
Dad says be as fit as you can be, uncle says he was the fittest guy at the gym in his day (town population was 4,000 then and the gym had only 20 members) and the internet says a lot of things. For one, it tells you how to secure advantages that used to only be known to pros, meaning dad's advice becomes a curse. You can never be as fit as you can be because fitness advice and technology move so quickly that there will always be unexplored options. Uncle's stories about being a "local legend" are so much better than your experiences despite spending twice as much time at the gym. Maybe they're exaggerating, or maybe you will never get to experience being the most fit guy a girl has ever seen due to Instagram. To top it off, you yourself have seen so many dozens of people at a level of fitness you can seemingly never achieve that you have, at most, half the confidence he did. So when you look in the mirror after a solid year of lifting and have no stories to share about girls, no moment of triumph where you look your dad in the eye and say you are doing everything you can to be as fit as possible, no rivalry at the gym with your lifelong friend and neighbor, and worst of all no smile to match what you've seen countless times on the faces of dad and uncle in the scrapbook... Sorry, I'm rambling. The point is you will wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze when comparing yourself to people who came before you and raped the world with empire and coca cola.
If you have these people in your life hear this: they will always claim to have suffered more than you because they evaluate suffering differently. To them, suffering is starvation, violence, and physical labor. Nowadays, we fast for fun or to have a sharper focus at work.
Violence is seemingly everywhere and nowhere online, while in your day to day life it is seen as a disease to be eradicated (and you are treated like the cause regardless). Now that it is strictly forbidden and linked to your male-ness, violence becomes a sort of craving. You are told you are inherently violent, that you must change to stop being that way. Practicing total nonviolence and self policing makes you less appealing to women, less confident, more anxious, etc. You feel the urge to do something, but you wonder if that urge is violence. They never really went into detail about how to process your emotions in a productive way, now that you think of it. Only that you are predisposed to violence, that violence can come in many forms (even non-physical), and that succumbing to it will ruin your life. Best not to risk succumbing to any urges at all, lest they be violent ones. So you hold it in, left to fix yourself in silence while others get to express themselves freely. Those other groups demand the government fix their problems for them and it seems to be more successful than not. You start to see changes in policy and language. Things like "if you have a problem, talk to someone" or maybe HR sent an email about "having an open door" and how "everyone needs to vent" so you take them up on the offer. Oopsie! Turns out that being emotionally immature and suspecting you want to let loose once in a while in a way that could be considered violent makes you a significant risk to other people. Maybe your life is fucked up, maybe you are just required to attend counseling and labelled defective until you can successfully internalize that you are defective. Maybe you take up mma, left to wonder whether or not it's a crutch you need just to achieve normalcy. Either way, your experience with violence is very different from theirs. For the millenial or zoomer, you can never leave it behind. If you seem to be stressed you will be treated as though you are violent, just for everyone's safety of course. You will not be helped. You will not respond to violence with violence. You will never know if you are actually violent at all because it is not something you should decide for yourself.
Demanding physical labor is harder to explain as a topic. I'd be happy to work construction or labor one day a week just to mix it up. Mental fatigue is worse than physical in my experience. Bad ergonomics result in a life of pain management opiates for many people, it just takes a lot longer to get there compared to sudden debilitating injury. Instead of dividing the suffering of the past from the present I think it is more useful in this case to find common ground. People don't mind hard work all that much (in my experience, at least), what people actually have a problem with is having unnecessary pain and risk added to their job without adequate compensation. The workers of the past often paid with their lives when something went wrong. The workers of today pay with their lives to ensure nothing goes wrong.
Prosperity isn't what it used to be, that means the rewards are always going to be lower. Challenges are often more a test of your compliance and submission to authority than they are tests of competence. Times have changed, but we are less prepared to adapt to these changes. The stress level required to simply get by has increased dramatically. Male-ness and masculinity are regarded very differently now. We are competing simultaneously in a local physical hierarchy as well as a global digital hierarchy all the time. Appreciation for strength and fortitude among the general population is now riding shotgun with rugged individualism, meaning it is associated with "the Right," meaning it falls under the category of "risky conversation," meaning it is soft-banned in many places. Your identity as a man is dictated to you, not yours to control. Why get invested in something with such an uncertain future when you can more easily be an "ally" or "activist" knowing there is far less at stake? Without a country, let alone a family to fight for, how can you ever match up to those who came before you?
Anyways, this is about 3x as long as I wanted it to be. I say cry away if you feel that way. Do it in private if you don't have anyone. Even if you have someone who cares that much about you, don't abuse such a privilege. Get in touch with your emotions and urges. Study yourself until you achieve a level of mastery that others cannot compete with. If the conversation pertains to you, ensure you have the skills required to determine if something is "right enough" or if it is truly "right for me" and if you can't - don't commit yourself to an answer right away. Conform to your peers if you conform at all, the past doesn't benefit from your participation. Focus on the result you want, not the method. The level of suffering has generally increased (in the western world at least) and most importantly: the people who came before you had so much more passive support and reward built into being strong than you do. They held it in because they could afford to keep up appearances and maintain their self image. You, on the other hand, live in a surveillance state on the decline. The illusion has faded to the point that it is no longer sustainable. Telling you that the only way for you to be a man is by bottling up emotion, avoiding all forms of passion or violence, and working yourself to death is a desperate play by a failed system hanging on by a thread. That thread is narrative control at all levels targeted at you from childhood. If several thousand random men got together and simply wept for all they have lost, will never have, and the daily misery of maintaining a system hostile to your very existence maybe it will cause enough buzz to get something started. We live in a belief-based society powered by a faith-based economy here in the US. The perception of male crying could be rewritten in a year if the spin doctors had a reason to give a shit about you.
I cried when i saw this wall of text
 

Demon of the Winds

kiwifarms.net
1. Death of your mother.
2. Death of a child.
3. Death of a brother.
Being the three examples I’d say it’s acceptable.

Basically only at funerals and extremely serious somber occasions(where a man is personally invested in the person gone or something truly terrible has happened).

I don’t think breaking out and showing emotion is a healthy or desirable trait for men just when they’ve had a bad day or a bad break up. But I don’t think it’s right or even respectful to not show emotion in the examples I listed above.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
I think we live in an era where people are too emotional across the board. Its not really surprising that so many Millennials and Zoomers are emotionally dead; you just get burnt out after awhile.
 
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